Elderly lady with health issues - & flea treatment

sunny578

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I just skimmed, but I don't think diatomaceous earth was mentioned? There's a food grade version of it, and it really helped me when I had an old cat who was more susceptible to flea infestation.
 
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FeebysOwner

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I just skimmed, but I don't think diatomaceous earth was mentioned? There's a food grade version of it, and it really helped me when I had an old cat who was more susceptible to flea infestation.
I am aware of food-grade DE, but have chosen not to try it for the following reasons.

It can be used in carpeted areas of a house, and even fabric-based pet bedding - but not 'safely' in uncarpeted areas, and my house is over 60% non-carpet. It should not be vacuumed up for at least 3 days, and pets - as well as humans - are cautioned to stay out of the areas until after vacuuming is complete. The dust in the carpet can be 'kicked up' merely by walking through the area, not to mention what would happen trying to keep it on non-carpeted surfaces for that period of time. My house has an open floor plan and several areas have to be traveled through to get to/from various rooms and entryways. DE also does not kill flea eggs; so, the process must be repeated constantly. DE is known to be 'murder' on many types of vacuums.

DE cannot be used outside my house because it is rendered much less effective once it rains, which down here means I would be applying several times a week.
 
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maggie101

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I am worried fleas will become a problem since I can no longer feed birds. I had blue jays,doves,cardinals,house finch,northern mocking bird,sparrows,red winged black bird,wrens,wood peckers. So I will buy some advantage
 
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FeebysOwner

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I'm sure you've done tons of Googling, but here's something that sounded interesting. Spread cedar chips on the areas where your pet likes to lie down, under the bushes, and on flower beds. Fleas hate the smell! Sulphur (powder or liquid) is also known to repel fleas and prevent hatching.
How to Get Rid of Fleas in Your House, in Your Yard, and More
I was looking at the sulphur powder or liquid for outside my patio but be darned if there isn't a warning about it being harmful to certain plants. Now looking to see if it could be harmful to boxwoods as that is what surrounds my patio area. Still not clear if there could be an issue to the squirrels, as some of the data said it kills all kinds of insects - and even rodents. Last I knew a squirrel is a rodent. Didn't mention birds, but I have tons of them that hang out in and under the boxwoods.

I also looked up cedar chips and it seems they might repel fleas because of the smell, but many articles suggest they don't really kill fleas. And, then I read - that cedar mulch can damage plants because it depletes the soil from nitrogen Arrrrrgh. Cedarwood oil is also mentioned. May be a solution for rugs outside my doors (not inside), although one article states that wondercide cedar oil is safe for cats so it might be able to be placed on the inside entryway rugs as well.

:thud:
 

maggie101

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fleas love to hide in shrubs. I also read to use cedar. The suggestions I read are mow the yard,get rid of any hiding places. There are numerous plants fleas resist like catnip and they hide in dirt so hard spray your porch with water, something to buy. And yeah, birds eat fleas but also bring them. Not much you can do about it
 
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FeebysOwner

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I am going to try to re-set where I wanted this thread to go in the first place - if you had a cat with Feeby's conditions, what would you do? Go back to Adv II (which semi worked), try Frontline Plus again (which doesn't seem to have worked), try Vectra (which has a different main ingredient than the previous two) or try Revolution Plus or Bravecto (which have warnings about possible seizures/neurological issues)?

I appreciate all the 'extra' advice - and, am currently looking into some of the things mentioned - but my main concern was how to proceed with a flea treatment for Feeby, and I wanted your personal opinions as if Feeby was your beloved 17+ yo cat.

EDIT: You know what guys? I am asking the impossible of you all. Again, I appreciate all the extra advice, but realize I am chasing a solution that can only be obtained by me.
 
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MissClouseau

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I'm very late but, I would go with Stronghold aka Revolution. It's the most effective flea drops. Frontline's main ingredient is the least effective as most vets here tell us, fleas developed immunity to it. Advantage is fine with non-adult fleas but not as effective fro the adult fleas and Advantage's effect last for like maybe 2 weeks despite them claiming it lasts for a month.

I understand you have worries about Stronghold but, if I were you I would think this.

- I (me) applied Stronghold every month to up to 6 cats at least. None had a problem with it. And it's the most popular flea drop in Turkey for the summer too. And its effect last the longest in my experience. So it might actually kill the fleas in the house in a month or two with one or two doses, when they jump on Feeby.

You know fleas can cause blood parasites, tapeworm, and more. I give my Hima Stronghold throughout the summer despite her chronic liver condition and flea drops / dewormers challenging her liver. Because the other risks would be even more challenging.
 
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FeebysOwner

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Thanks, MissClouseau MissClouseau (good to hear from you again)! Yes, Stronghold and Stronghold Plus contain the same ingredients as Revolution and Revolution Plus.

The main problem is that all the vets around here want to prescribe Revolution Plus - not the original Revolution (and both require a prescription). The Plus version, as is also true of Stronghold, contains an isoxazoline class of pesticides that has been tied to neurological disorders and seizures. I am not willing to risk the odds of this in a 17+ yo cat - I just can't do it.

Further, I know that fleas can cause blood parasites, tapeworms, and more. However, the pesticides in these products cover hookworms, roundworms, ear mites, and heartworm larvae (and ticks as well in the Plus version) - NOT tapeworms, btw - and is more coverage than what is apparently needed for Feeby, given she has been dealing with fleas for a couple of years now. I hate giving her pesticide products that are obviously 'harsher' since they treat so much, if she doesn't need them.

We are not eradicating the fleas altogether with Advantage II, and we actually had worse results when we tried Frontline Plus, as you pretty much said above. I hadn't heard that Adv is better with non-adult fleas than it is with adult ones, but I am pretty sure it has its limitations with both from my experience. And tbh, giving her Adv II twice a month vs. once a month, made no difference.

Lastly, Adv II (and Frontline) are about the only ones left that don't enter the bloodstream, which is also a concerning factor for me when it comes to Feeby's age. If we can keep her comfortable, and minimize the fleas, I guess that is the best we can do if we are not willing to expose her to potentially problematic pesticides at her age.

It is just sad that this had to happen so late in her life; she was without flea treatments and flea free for all those years...maybe I would have been willing to be a bit more 'experimental' with treatments had this happened many, many years ago.
 

MissClouseau

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Good to hear from you too, FeebysOwner FeebysOwner . I'm glad you and Feeby are both doing okay 💜

The main problem is that all the vets around here want to prescribe Revolution Plus - not the original Revolution (and both require a prescription). The Plus version, as is also true of Stronghold, contains an isoxazoline class of pesticides that has been tied to neurological disorders and seizures. I am not willing to risk the odds of this in a 17+ yo cat - I just can't do it.
Is this a significant risk though? Stronghold is the most used flea med for cats in Turkey and if I'm not mistaken in Europe in general. At least for the summers. If the risk of a neurological disorder or seizure was high I doubt it would be this popular. I hear about flea-related health problems far, faaaaar more than any side effect Stronghold has. For a senior cat too. Obviously you know Feeby better than any of us but if you have already tried the other options it might be a good idea to do another risk calculation. 🍀
 
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FeebysOwner

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Stronghold is the most used flea med for cats in Turkey and if I'm not mistaken in Europe in general. At least for the summers...Obviously you know Feeby better than any of us but if you have already tried the other options it might be a good idea to do another risk calculation.
Yes, I get what you are saying. But note - if you are using Stronghold (NOT the Plus version), then it does not contain the pesticide I was talking about. As I said, ditto for the 'regular' Revolution - which is also prescription - but all vets around me want to push the Revolution Plus instead. I started wondering if Revolution was being phased out - but I see it for sale online. It apparently is just because these vets must think Revolution Plus is better. I even agreed to get a tube of Revolution based on a conversation with one vet, and when I went to pay the invoice, they handed me the Plus version.
 

MissClouseau

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Yes, I get what you are saying. But note - if you are using Stronghold (NOT the Plus version), then it does not contain the pesticide I was talking about. As I said, ditto for the 'regular' Revolution - which is also prescription - but all vets around me want to push the Revolution Plus instead. I started wondering if Revolution was being phased out - but I see it for sale online. It apparently is just because these vets must think Revolution Plus is better. I even agreed to get a tube of Revolution based on a conversation with one vet, and when I went to pay the invoice, they handed me the Plus version.
Oh I see. Is there a way to get Stronghold from a different country? In Turkey for example you could just walk in to a vet clinic and get Stronghold just by paying. No prescription is needed. In case anyone you know is going to a different country and/or in case there is an app that you could order something small from someone who goes overseas (there are apps like that I know but not sure about the USA.)
 
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FeebysOwner

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Is there a way to get Stronghold from a different country?
Or - I suppose - I could submit an order to one of the online pet stores, who would then send a prescription request to the vet, and maybe they wouldn't 'notice' the request was for just the regular Revolution??? :evilgrin:
 

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Or - I suppose - I could submit an order to one of the online pet stores, who would then send a prescription request to the vet, and maybe they wouldn't 'notice' the request was for just the regular Revolution??? :evilgrin:
You think they would send the regular Revolution if you specifically asked? I would assume Revolution Plus is more expensive so maybe they could even benefit from it
 

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I'm going to ask what might sound like a really dumb question but important at this point:

Have you seen fleas recently? It's possible that it is not fleas and could be bed bugs. Many people do not have bites appear on their bodies. They will bite pets. It is possible to have an infestation of bed bugs and see no bugs. The actions you are taking would likely keep the amount of bed bugs reduced (heat treatment with dryer etc).

Either way I'll make the suggestion of Food Grade diatomaceous earth. (Non-pool section). Using a paper, shovel and tuck the DE under your baseboards. You can apply the treatment to the outside of your home (will harm all insects FYI), around your foundation but will need to reapply after rain.

Second recommendation would be to ensure your vacuum has a HEPA filter. Many pests can crawl out of a vacuum without a HEPA filter if they are not killed by blowing debris.

If you have the $ to hire pest control, that could be an idea. They should have solutions for both fleas or bed bugs.

Fleas can cause anemia in cats over time. It's likely that bed bugs can too. I would have the vet apply something topical again.
 

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Oh this kills both fleas and bed bugs. It's recommended on flea sites.
Ortho® Home Defense Max® Bed Bug Killer

Also suggesting some bed bug covers for furniture etc which will also keep fleas out (or in if they are in there!). Covers can be removed for washing but I generally recommend leaving them on for at least a year first. We put a second cover on top of our to take off and wash more frequently (non-bed bug proof).

I'm suggesting the ones suitable for bed bugs as they will keep things out as small as fleas also, whereas the regular allergen ones may not.
 
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FeebysOwner

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Have you seen fleas recently?...Either way I'll make the suggestion of Food Grade diatomaceous earth....Second recommendation would be to ensure your vacuum has a HEPA filter. Many pests can crawl out of a vacuum without a HEPA filter if they are not killed by blowing debris...Fleas can cause anemia in cats over time. It's likely that bed bugs can too. I would have the vet apply something topical again.
Thanks. We comb her and find fleas. Not doing DE due to the 'dust'.
The vacuum may have a HEPA filter, not sure. But it is bagless, so, after each vacuum session, the container gets dumped into a plastic bag and sprayed with home & premise flea treatment and then sealed.
Fortunately, for as long as this has been going on Feeby is not anemic (gets blood testing at least every 6 months), so we must be keeping them at a minimum.
 

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Thanks. We comb her and find fleas. Not doing DE due to the 'dust'.
The vacuum may have a HEPA filter, not sure. But it is bagless, so, after each vacuum session, the container gets dumped into a plastic bag and sprayed with home & premise flea treatment and then sealed.
Fortunately, for as long as this has been going on Feeby is not anemic (gets blood testing at least every 6 months), so we must be keeping them at a minimum.
Bagless with a HEPA will still help :) they could jump out while dumping or spraying.

When putting the DE under the baseboards you will not get dust after initial installation if that helps you at all. That's why I recommend tucking it as I know some people are worried about the dust. However it is highly recommended for homes with pets and young children. Masking during application is best as that's when the dust is there. My wife, cat and I all have athsma and don't have issues with using it. We mask and keep the cat out while applying and then after it settles I vacuum up and mop to get any remains off the main floor areas.

If you're still uncomfortable with it, I would really recommend moving forward with a pest inspector/specialist.

The final recommendation would be to limit/reduce wild animals in your yard that are tracking in fleas.

Contacting a local rescue to trap and move/rehome the stray cats and bringing in any squirrel or bird feeders for a time. Some people use squirrel resistant bird feeders, I haven't found any to work. Unless someone has a recommendation for getting some flea medication on to the squirrels 🤣
 
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FeebysOwner

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If you're still uncomfortable with it, I would really recommend moving forward with a pest inspector/specialist....The final recommendation would be to limit/reduce wild animals in your yard that are tracking in fleas.
I think there is a strong likelihood that many of the fleas do come in from the screened in patio we have - even though I do spray the back yard with pesticides, but only per the instructions to reduce risks to all kinds of wildlife. I can't even use DE out there since it rains here nearly every day. I have started looking into nematodes but haven't made a final decision yet on whether or not to try them.

I don't think there is much I can do about wildlife coming into the yard, especially not the birds - which also carry fleas.
 
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