Educate a previously stray cat constantly chasing the old house cat

[Anca]

Hi All,

I have been reading some threads already posted here on kittens harrasing the old cat of the house, however, my situation is a bit different. I will try to sum it up as well as possible, but this will be a long text
* Old cat - my pride - 14 years old turned just this March. Spayed, but no vacciness as she was mostly the only cat of the house and never stayed outside. Has been with me since a baby and we are really connected, loves me imenseley and I - right back at her.
* New cat - "estimated" by the vets at around 2 years now.
* New cat was basically a stray that my boyfriend fed near the blocks, as we sometimes do with the neighbourhood animals and she started chasing him everywhere. Even in the block staircase , 2 floors up the stairs. Directly in the apartment, to my old cat food bowl (old cat saw nothing, she was sleeping on the heater and I closed the door) )
* We put up notices on the local Facebook groups as she seemed lost, she was not feral, she was playfull, knew how to sharped the claws on the rug, knew what the litterbox was, she felt really comfortable inside, purring and rolling on the carpet. We had someone call the next day about a lost cat that looked like her. It was obviously not her, neither the story matched neither the picture, but I did not have the heart to refuse a kid looking for her cat. Obviously if you let the kid decide, she will take any cat that looks like the one she lost, although I tried to do my best to emphasize that I don't think this one was the one. However, I let them take the new cat with them with the mention that in case they realise it's not theirs, that it does not behaves as the lost one, to call me and bring it back and not just let her out in the gardens or in the street. Obviously I was right and the next day the cat got back to us.
* The very same evening we got the stray cat to the Vet, did the coronavirus, fiv checks, internal and external deparazitation and all that could be done at this initial stage. Turns out the cat was not spayed - so either she was just a firendly stray, either abandoned. All came out negative so I felt a bit more comfortable to let her around my old cat. Also did her 1st vaccine, and the 2nd in January.
* New cat rushed into our house in early December, she has been with us since then

Now, the introductions:
* In the 1st evening, we let the old cat see the the new one, very controled, two people staying put - just to have a glympse of how the new cat behaves. When she first saw my cat she instantly went for a nose boop, no hissing, no fear, no aggression. My old cat obviously got surprised by the too friendly intruder and hissed, got all puffed up, like we expected. The new cat instantly retreated and bowed, showing no signs of wanting to have a fight.
* Of course, we separated them at that moment, my cat on one room and this new one in the living room, with separate litter boxes, supervision and all that. Unfortunately the apartment is not designed for them to not meet at all, as it is wagon like - you enter the dorm from the living room so it basically just a door between the cats.
* To be honest, introduction went quite well, altough I expected a lot of chaos - the new cat was always obedient when my older cat passed by, whenever she encountered it she just dropped to the ground, pretending to be sleepy (manipulative little one) or just hid away behind the couch.
* Old cat was of course, territorial, was chasing the new one away from her room when she was curiously entering, I was controling her every move when she was there and always pulled her our before any fighting happened.
* We kept them separated, then I started to interact with both in the living room, petting one in front of the other, playing with one in front of the other, we also managed to all play together in the same space and run around rather safely and comfortably (as in my cat with me and the new cat with me, not between themselves, but hey, I was very happy just getting here)
* Eventually, we got to the point where both were feeding well, pooping well, could walk around the appartment freely, as long as they kept a reasonable distance.

THEN:
* In January, just after New Year the new cat entered the heat phase - where she was literally stalking my cat for love, especially that my old cat also layed off some of the guard and allowed her presence. The moment my cat made a move, this new one was after her, watching her every move and doing those rrrrr sounds all the time
* We waited until the heat was over, wanted to schedule her for spaying and then 4 days after the ending of the 1st cycle, another one started, so we did that injection that stops the heat in 48 hours and just did the surgery as the house was unlivable and we have been sleep-deprived for 2 weeks already.
* Surgery done, she calmed down, no more howing at the door, no more harrasing my old cat, healed well, new cat all good

NOW
* Things seemed stable, the new cat kept trying to play with the old cat but the old one is quite picky and diva and does not want to play with her, only with me directly. Fair enough, no pressure, only some hissing was involved and the new one was retreating. They still stay and sleep together on the same bed, eat well, poop well, all that important things.
* 3 weeks ago my old cat started to have the signs of feline acne, with those black dots. I tried to clean her with some clorhexidine shampoo that I got from the vet but eventually something got infected and developed some sort of furunculosis.
* called the vet, she told me to keep her on topical solutions for several days but those did not work at all and things got worse, so I stopped torturing her with the topical stuffs. So we switched to antibiotics for 2 weeks, ended the series just yesterday

THE PROBLEM
* somewhere along this 2-3 weeks period where I stressed my old cat with creams, solutions and antibiotics - the new cat started to chase, block and charge the old cat more frequently and more confidently. There was never any real fight or injuries, but I noticed an increase in growling, hissing, pouncing and general frustration from my old cat due to these "attacks". She also started to back off and run away, which of course, makes the new cat chase even more.
* My old cat got pretty stressed and depressed due to me having to administer either medicines either cream, at least 3 times a day (probiotic + 1st round of antibiotic + 2nd round after 12 hours), which I guess it is understandable - first you bring me this intruder, now you do all these things to me. I tried to comfort her as much as I could without adding even more stress by cuddling, brushing, all the things that she loves most, but she is still shy and more rigid than usually.
* in the last days she started wanting to play a bit again, but instantly stops when the new cat comes in, so I will play with her with the door closed for now
* she does have places to jump on when she wants to avoid the new cat but I would not want that to be the norm around the house
*

WHAT I AM DOING
* I am currently trying to enforce good behavior on the new cat by saying No when she looks like she wants to charge the old cat and giving her treats when she does not.
* I am not trying to separate them again, unless there is a very active chase going on that really makes my old cat run away
* I am also not always interfering when there is only a hissing and a bit of a growl to which the new cat reacts as I would not want to take away the authority of my old cat
* They can stay together on the same bed, at different corners and peacefully sleep together during the day.
* Chasing mostly happens in the morning, evening or during the night, when the new cat has its energy rush, I do try to be around in those moments as much as possible to temper it.
* the old one does not eat very well since she had some diarhea several days ago (from the antibiotics I think), the vet advised hipollergenic food but it's not really usefull if she does not like it (at least the wet variant seems a total fail). I will just watch her and gave her the food she likes eventually, better than to not eat at all...

However, my questions are:
* Is there anything I could do more and better?
* Did anyone had this sort of situation after one cat got medication?
* If so, how long did it take until the new cat (or the charging cat, whether old or new) understood what's not to do ?
* I was thinking to get a small water pistol to use from a distance only in the moments when she does not respond to No, but still give her treats and praises if she stops, as a more enforced NO. I will not use it in any other cases .
* Did the Feliway did anything for you? I did get one and it's plugged in for around almost 2 weeks but did not see any results so far... It actually coincided a bit to when the new cat started to have more vigorous chase episodes, but that may be only be a coincidence.

Any advice would be much appreciated as for now I am doing my best efforts to try and solve the situation by working from home, paying attention during work hours, after work hours, during the night but... I will need to eventually have a time off, have a holiday, sleep peacefully on a general basis and leave them with a pet-sitter without finding them in a quarell again after several days. Like, have a normal life. The thought of re-homing the new cat is quite depressing for me as she is really not a difficult cat - she did not break or ruin anything in the house, she only had a few accidents at the begining (but understandable, new house, new things), she plays, she purrs, she wants love and attention, she has these sweet behaviors that cats do. It is just the combination that is currently not going too well now and I have a lot of anxiety that I am slowly killing my old cat because of the new cat but the thoughts of re-homing the new one also breaks my heart.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi,
Water spraying likely won't help, it will just confuse the cat I think.

You might want to remove the feliway for a while and see if there's a difference. Some cats don't react to it at all but some cats have an opposite, more negative reaction than the intended purpose.

the last days she started wanting to play a bit again, but instantly stops when the new cat comes in, so I will play with her with the door closed for now
* she does have places to jump on when she wants to avoid the new cat but I would not want that to be the norm around the house

Due to the fact that your older cat is beginning to feel better, keep playing with her with the door closed. Can you play with the new cat, hard, to wear off the energy? Take her outside for walks?
Also try a ceramic or glass dish so the acne doesn't come back.

"I would not want that to be the norm around the house"
In my opinion it will need to be for a while.

 

[Anca]

Will try to do so with the Feliway in the next days and see if anything changes, the instructions are to keep that for at least a month 24/7 so I tried it mostly to help out things - make my cat calmer during the treatment and make the new one chiller ; in a regular situation where I would need to leave a couple of days or so, I definetly do not trust that difuser to stay pluggen in and unsupervised.

Playing with the new one - hell yeah, she's like a circus cat when playing with the wand, she was definetly a bird chaser/hunter while stray, she has some ridiculously funny moves to catch that wand. That is the main "weapon" when I see her being too agitated in the morning. I try to play with her as much as possible to wear off her energy, but there are sometimes days when I am tired or need to be out of the house. I also bought various stuffed toys, a wheeled mouse and will probably get one of those interactive toys as well soon, as they are not so expensive. I would like her to play with toys rather than humans or pester the other moving creature of the house, but those are probably not as fun. Outside for walks is not really an option as I am afraid afterwards she will keep wanting to go out and maybe start the door yowling again. And we live in a block of flats, our "outside" is basically a parking lot near the block and the actual road, so not really a nice garden and also dangerous in case she freaks out and god forbid escapes. Maximum on the balcony and even there, I think I will buy a cat harness and be really mindfull cause she sprints like crazy when she wants to.

Also try a ceramic or glass dish so the acne doesn't come back - already replaced everything, she used to have a stainless one anyway but it might be that due to the long usage that became toxic as well. I think she may have gotten it from licking plastic bags, she has this habbit since a young cat and she did find a specific bag where I stored some key tokens at the moment. plus stress, plus who knows what reacted with the food, maybe all... no one really knows.

Will park the water spray idea and hope that distraction, playtime and "kindergarden" activities will help.

In case anyone found themselves in a similar situation, any ideas would help.

 

[Alldara]

Since the younger cat is used to being outside with much enrichment, of course it will have tons of energy now that she's indoors. (You could consider adding a similar aged playmate to your home as she's likely always going to prefer a playmate. However that depends on many human factors if it's even a possibility for your home.)

Cats will always need some amount of human playtime. I'd recommend continuing with the door closed for the older cat as fairly permanently for her playtime with you. It's best to give them a playtime where they don't have to fret about interruption.

Which Feliway were you using? I dont think it will help calm down a bored cat, but I did find the Multicat formula lowered stress better than the regular formula.

You could try some free or used places to get some electronic/interactive toys.

Are you feeding food through enrichment as well? This helps keep cats busy. What else do you have going on enrichment wise?

 

[Anca]

Phew, I think we reached the cat limit for this appartment of 60 m2 consisting one living room + a small bedroom + bathroom ), I think more would be close to animal hoarding as we are already 2 people and 2 cats and occasionally my parents need to fit in too for several days. Even this one was in plan really, but we did not have the heart to put her back into the winter cold and in the dangerous streets after she blackmailed us with her cute gimmicks. So one more cat, with all the introductions, separation, risks and slepless nights would probably makes donate this place to the cats entirely.

Thanks for the advice on the playtime my old cat, will continue to do so. The thing is that when I am playing with the new one she comes around in the doorway and stares unapprovingly as if she would like to participate but not while that little intruder is around. Will give her own personal time with me alone and then try to observe if she gets curious enough to get closer to the playtime with the youger one.

I am using Feliway Friends, we only got two variants available in Romania - the classical one and the Friends one, which in theory says that is exactly for chasing, pouncing, blocking. Looking at Multicat on Google, it has the same packaging, description and picture even, so I think it may be the new re-named one.

Other Enrichments: my old cat was not really interested in games and toys, not even the wands very much, we usually either played with a simple ribbon, balls of paper, alluminium foils, hair scrunchies, basically anything else than toys )) . She did have wands, little cat toys but would get bored with them quite quickly, so we did not invest a lot more in them. And we were playing hide and seek in the house, she is very good at this. With the new one I bough a lot of toys cause I noticed she enjoys and uses them, did not yet try food enrichments. To be honest, I was a poor student a good deal of my old cat's life (probably half) so I could not afford cat trees, expensive toys, expensive food, we kept to simple toys like wands or throw-away stuff. When I first bought a scratching pole she did not even use it once )) she already had the rug for that; not even to sit on it, she just ignored it. Probably that's one of the reason of her lack of interest in the new toys and appliances. Food enrichment will probably not work with my old cat as she is a fussy eater anyway, so making her work more for food - don't think it'll interest her. I will search some for the new one to see if they work, do you have any suggestions that are not like 20 EUR a piece?

 

[Alldara]

A Anca Really the enrichment will be for the younger cat. Especially the food enrichment, though the older cat might eventually participate, that's not the initial goal. Your goal will just be to keep the younger cat occupied with enrichment, and wear down some energy. If your older cat learns to participate that is an added bonus.

Check out lots of DIY enrichment items. I don't know much about Romania; I've only met one person from there and that was back in highschool. I'm over in Canada.

I make some enrichment items from empty toilet paper rolls, I use boxes and tissue paper and paper bags.
I also get a lot of things from used stores and just clean them up with some antibacterial cleaner and give a good rinse. My local Buy Nothing Group is great for that but so are some stores that sell used items. If my cat doesn't use them, I try to resell them on Facebook Marketplace with mixed results.

Here are some videos to get you started:
you can make a bigger version of this for cats with old clothing: Snuffle mat for hamsters - easy DIY tutorial

You can keep your cats interested in toys by rotating them. I was told by my neighbor that we can store some in a container with some catnip and if you freeze the container overnight the catnip becomes more potent again. She rotates the toys every week so we are trying the same. We have 3 weeks of toy sets, just small containers.

Another inexpensive thing has been a woolen dryer ball. That's a huge hit here. We keep a bird feeder at the window.

The flopping fish is also a good buy. My cats use it a lot. I also check dog toys sometimes to see if they are suitable.

 

[Meowmee]

I don’t know what the solution is here, but we did have a similar situation. Quinn, my pb now 6 year old siamese loon, would not stop jumping on my beloved Sybil. It ended up with having to mostly separate them at the end of her life as she had undiagnosed hcm, and I didn't want her to be stressed.

I tried everything. We tried a few meds but it didn't help, however there was another med I tried for three aggressive cats now, who had come in from outside, and it helped all of them. They are all love bugs now, and they only needed it for a few weeks. So if I had tried that for Quinn too it could have helped.

Looking back on it now, it would have been better to get two kittens, since he is and was super active, and very dominant. But we did not want another cat at the time. And I was worried they could both end up hounding poor Sybil. It was also a personality clash as well as older, younger. I think a calmer kitten would have been better for her too.

I hope you figure this out. One thing I think is important if you can do it, is not to isolate the older cat initially, she should have free reign of the home, but also safe retreats. Initially, the newer cat should be isolated, so they don’t think it is their territory. You can also always go back, and try a new isolation and reintro too.

 

[Anca]

A Anca Really the enrichment will be for the younger cat. Especially the food enrichment, though the older cat might eventually participate, that's not the initial goal. Your goal will just be to keep the younger cat occupied with enrichment, and wear down some energy. If your older cat learns to participate that is an added bonus.

Check out lots of DIY enrichment items. I don't know much about Romania; I've only met one person from there and that was back in highschool. I'm over in Canada.

We already got a tunel of boxes and from the new box that just got delivered I think I will make one of those treats boxes, thanks for the idea, can't be simpler than that. Will get a few more toys as well and maybe a cat tree if I can find a cheaper one on facebook market or one of the online sales sites we got here.

I just also plugged off the Feliway as it has one week in and want to test if it has anything to do with the sudden increase in darefullness, last evening and this morning she jumped and went in for a charge even if my cat was quietly sitting on the bed or in her tunnel. I just played with her, she ate, ran, there was activity with us around, so that was a bit unpleasant. This time the old one was not even moving, did not even get the chance to say no.

"One thing I think is important if you can do it, is not to isolate the older cat initially, she should have free reign of the home, but also safe retreats. Initially, the newer cat should be isolated, so they don’t think it is their territory"

Yeah, the new one just got all over this place like it owns it, at the begining she was so quiet, only sitting on a chair and being very submissive to my older cat - the reason why we thought they would have a chance, cause she seemed quiet and peaceful, while mine was the aggressive and anxious one. Now that mine toned down, even after being spayed, the new one has taken control of the house and bullies the other, which I will not have. I am also very displeased with her recent intrusion behavior towards my cat's bowl, like I would put the food only for the new one, she literally just swipes in front of my cat to eat from her bowl. She did not use to do that, they would both eat nicely and separately from their own bowls 3 weeks ago. Now I put the new one food first, she literally just smells it and directly goes for the food I put for the old one. I always take her back to her bowl and convice her to hear from there but it frustrates the old cat as well as I see her looking after the other one before even starting to eat.

I always let the old one walk around the house whenver she wants and if the new one is too bullying I put her in the bathroom or in the other room for a while, so that the old one can roam in peace. At night I started keeping her with us and leaving a snack on her usual hang around places, as she usually just tucks in and sleeps as much as us; cause two nights in a row I heard hissing sounds when she wanted to go for a snack.

I also think I need to have a "punishment" technique to discipline the new one somehow, as she is quite cunning - if you can recomend one that will not deteriorate things even more, I would appreciate it. I fear that just using treats will make her think - ok, I will get treats, will not attack, if I don't get anymore treats, I will do what I want. I don't want her to train me )

I am also thinking about re-directed aggresion, but can't figure out the trigger, as we don't punish her, we don't yell at her (apart from the NO part, the closed doors and isolation), the only thing we do is close the door when things get heated and do not cave in to her scratching at the door. And also lifting the old one's food so that she does not find anything there when she goes scouting for leftovers.

Today has not started well on this matter, gonna get my calm pills and try to untangle this new order.

 

[Anca]

Ah, here is a cute photo when things are nice and calm. The culprit is the one laying like a log, tired after all the misdemeanor caused.

 

[Meowmee]

I don’t think punishing a cat is ever going to work, they don’t respond well to that. Other than things like time out, saying no , and letting them know you are not pleased with their behavior etc. My guys are usually anxious to please me so,they get upset if I am upset with something they do, but that doesnt mean they will always change the behavior.

One thing I did with Quinn was to have him wear a thunder coat, it seemed to calm him down a bit and it was really the only thing that I had any effect on him like that.

as far as the food we have had some food eating issues here too. For instance Merlin is overweight and he was eating all of Zena‘s food-they both eat on the floor. I tried feeding Zena on the counter but he was not happy with that. I tried putting Merlin in the bathroom when Zena ate but Quinn let him out of there, lol. Eventually I just gave up.

I did something and it seem to stop the cycle but I can’t remember what it was now. And in the end Merlin is still overweight. At some point Zena did start to assert himself more about his food. But now he only wants to eat the dry food, and he will just let the others eat whatever other food I give him.

Now they both eat a mixture of dry food, and some raw I have been giving them. Zena will not eat anything but the dry food now though and they both have runs. they really seem to like to share each other‘s dishes so I pretty much just gave up on the whole thing.
I gave them some fiber today as dvm rec it for runs, with water in their food…at first they wouldn’t have any of it, and then they both drank a little bit of it from a dish with water, lol. But not enough prolly.

Anyway Merlin doesn’t eat all of Zena's food anymore, he had stopped for a while, then he started doing it again, but it seems to even out because they both eat out of each other’s dishes.
Quinn is the sneaky one because he eats on the table…what he does is I give him his food, which I give a little bit of to Merlin & Zena also, and then he goes and eats theirs first, and saves his for later.

That was one problem he didn’t have with Sybil, he basically just ate what I gave him and she ate what I gave her. If she left some of her food he would try to eat it but I always stopped him because he was getting diarrhea from her food.

If it were me I would re-introduce the two cats. Isolate the new cat for at least a week or two, and let the old cat establish her dominance again. One thing that I think is playing a part here is that you’re older cat had the acne and was sick and the new cat sees her as weaker now, so she feels able to assert herself as the leader. And when you do re-introduce them try to establish positive experiences together- eating treats together, playing together, and affection for both of them.

 

[Meowmee]

Ah, here is a cute photo when things are nice and calm. The culprit is the one laying like a log, tired after all the misdemeanor caused.

That is a good sign they will sleep on the same bed… they aren't true enemies or they would not do that I think.

 

[Alldara]

A punishment will only deteriorate your relationship to the cat and could actually escalate the behaviour towards your older cat. You could end up with deffered agression from fear of the punishment.

Distraction works best. Remember for all cats, (but also for teaching anything), every No needs a Yes. If you don't want a behavior to happen, they need to know what they CAN do instead.

Your younger cat is showing very normal behaviour. Young cats need to play and they play A LOT. A human can't really make up for the amount they need to play. Your older cat doesn't like to play and certainly won't play the amount a young cat needs.

Your young cat is not trying to bully, she's trying to get her needs met. You aren't trying to assert that older cat has no territory and you get cat has none, you are trying to establish joint territory. If young cat feels she has no territory, she will become insecure and behaviours could escalate.

Another thing you may have to consider is rehoming the younger cat to a home with another young cat. It's unfortunate, but it may come to this. A young cat will be rambunctious for many years.

For example my cats are 3 and 2 (almost) and we play with each 3 times a day for 10 to 15 minutes. They play at least twice a day with one another, if not more and not including times where they are just playing for a moment or two. Plus they almost always play at least once on their own with a toy. Magnus also gets a walk if the weather is nice (harness and leash). They have food enrichment available, a bird feeder outside to watch, catnip/silvervine and some kind of other enrichment I can set up for the day. This is basically to keep Magnus out of trouble because he is smart, has a ton of energy and never calmed down after the age of 2.
Calcifer was the additional enrichment that took the edge off for us when we transitioned from quarentine and having all the time in the world for Magnus, to working from home.
Previously, we were going just as crazy trying to keep him busy as I'm sure you feel. I resisted getting another cat for awhile. All of this doesn't completely stop him from being trouble but it helps.

 

[Alldara]

So reward the behaviour you do want with treats and play.

Try to find some things to keep her occupied when you're not available and to get out that play energy.

 

[Anca]

So.... I unplugged the Feliway and aired the house and the effect was almost instant, the dynamic changed from morning to evening. Not 100% different but at least 70% for sure, cause my cat could yesterday roam freely around the house, the young one not being isolated, without being chased at every move. They also ate again side by side at least once without conflict. As Furballsmom mentioned above, it seemed to have exactly the opposite effect, rather than "bringing harmony" as the box said, it did some voodoo on the new one and increased her will to dominate (and I think some vodoo on the old one as well at the same time). In the last days it was pretty cold and windy here so we did not open the windows that much for like 3 days in a row so I think whatever that thing has in it got denser than usually, when we air the appartment at least half an hour a day.

This morning and last evening there was a bit of chasing but not so often and not so aggresive, usually the old one's hiss and a bit of growl was enough to detter the "offender". There was reasonably peacefull eating and co-existence.

I did that food toy with the box I had, it worked pretty nicely with the new one, she understood what she needed to do so that kept her busy for 30 minutes or so. She is still using right as I type this, by her own choice, she just ate some wet food and now went in for some fun (so it's definitely not for hunger, but for enjoyment). I will try to use it when the old one eats so that she can eat alone while the young one gets her treats from the box.

I also bough a laser-key chain today )) probably best 1 EUR invested since a long time, I got the young one panting like a dog in like 5 minutes from all the chasing and jumping on the walls. 100% success with 0 effort, she is still seaching for the point on the wall )) . The old one was also interested for a bit, but she usually loses interest in the dot quite quickly, we tested that with her before, it is like she does not see the laser anymore after 5 minutes.

More work with the kindergarden will be needed, but the old one now seems more confident to just get out of her room whenever she wants, roam around the house. She does these rounds multiple times a day, most of the time without any specific scope, from the bathroom to the feeding place, needing neither the litter nor the food. I think she is trying to re-assert her dominance by just showing that she can walk wherever she wants, she used to do that a lot when the new one came in and was still afraid. The new one can also walk by more often near the old lady without any interest in pouncing. It's small, but I think it counts.

And yes - "One thing that I think is playing a part here is that you’re older cat had the acne and was sick and the new cat sees her as weaker now, so she feels able to assert herself as the leader" - this is exactly what I think happened + the fact that exactly when we started with the ointments I needed to urgently leave to my hometown cause my mother was not well, so my boyfriend remained to do the unpleasant job. So the unpleasant topic treatment + cone + not the person she trust + too much energy from the young one + antibiotics afterwards for 2 weeks + the sense that everyone does something bad to her in her own teritorry weakened her physically and mentally. And then that feliway "gave powers" to the new one.

So lessons learned so far:
* to be carefull when one of the cats takes medicine and protect her from the potential over-dominance of the other
* to be VERY careful about that Feliway thing and keep in mind that even mambo jambo can turn into voodoo
* lasers are life-savers

Curious how this will unfold in the next days, I will try and take less action myself in their interactions and see how it goes.

 

[Alldara]

Glad you found some things to give relief already.

So Feliway is the hormone that mother cats give off. So it was like boosting the younger cat's confidence really high and she felt less like the older cat could chastise her.

I hope the younger cat continues with her enrichment and whatever other enrichment you make to give you all some peace! She will likely get bored of each enrichment over time and you'll have to rotate things. Try to rotate before she gets bored if possible.

 

[Meowmee]

So.... I unplugged the Feliway and aired the house and the effect was almost instant, the dynamic changed from morning to evening. Not 100% different but at least 70% for sure, cause my cat could yesterday roam freely around the house, the young one not being isolated, without being chased at every move. They also ate again side by side at least once without conflict. As Furballsmom mentioned above, it seemed to have exactly the opposite effect, rather than "bringing harmony" as the box said, it did some voodoo on the new one and increased her will to dominate (and I think some vodoo on the old one as well at the same time). In the last days it was pretty cold and windy here so we did not open the windows that much for like 3 days in a row so I think whatever that thing has in it got denser than usually, when we air the appartment at least half an hour a day.

This morning and last evening there was a bit of chasing but not so often and not so aggresive, usually the old one's hiss and a bit of growl was enough to detter the "offender". There was reasonably peacefull eating and co-existence.

I did that food toy with the box I had, it worked pretty nicely with the new one, she understood what she needed to do so that kept her busy for 30 minutes or so. She is still using right as I type this, by her own choice, she just ate some wet food and now went in for some fun (so it's definitely not for hunger, but for enjoyment). I will try to use it when the old one eats so that she can eat alone while the young one gets her treats from the box.

I also bough a laser-key chain today )) probably best 1 EUR invested since a long time, I got the young one panting like a dog in like 5 minutes from all the chasing and jumping on the walls. 100% success with 0 effort, she is still seaching for the point on the wall )) . The old one was also interested for a bit, but she usually loses interest in the dot quite quickly, we tested that with her before, it is like she does not see the laser anymore after 5 minutes.

More work with the kindergarden will be needed, but the old one now seems more confident to just get out of her room whenever she wants, roam around the house. She does these rounds multiple times a day, most of the time without any specific scope, from the bathroom to the feeding place, needing neither the litter nor the food. I think she is trying to re-assert her dominance by just showing that she can walk wherever she wants, she used to do that a lot when the new one came in and was still afraid. The new one can also walk by more often near the old lady without any interest in pouncing. It's small, but I think it counts.

And yes - "One thing that I think is playing a part here is that you’re older cat had the acne and was sick and the new cat sees her as weaker now, so she feels able to assert herself as the leader" - this is exactly what I think happened + the fact that exactly when we started with the ointments I needed to urgently leave to my hometown cause my mother was not well, so my boyfriend remained to do the unpleasant job. So the unpleasant topic treatment + cone + not the person she trust + too much energy from the young one + antibiotics afterwards for 2 weeks + the sense that everyone does something bad to her in her own teritorry weakened her physically and mentally. And then that feliway "gave powers" to the new one.

So lessons learned so far:
* to be carefull when one of the cats takes medicine and protect her from the potential over-dominance of the other
* to be VERY careful about that Feliway thing and keep in mind that even mambo jambo can turn into voodoo
* lasers are life-savers

Curious how this will unfold in the next days, I will try and take less action myself in their interactions and see how it goes.

That is great! I am glad you figured out that the feliway was setting her off. I have tried that for several issues over the years and I have never had any good result, it never helped any of the issues. Last time I tried it, it was just a pheromone spray because I can’t use it anyway because I have asthma. I sprayed it to try and calm Fred down, one of my outdoor guys who came inside, and he hated it, and started pooping outside the litter box so it does not always have a good effect on all cats.

I hope they continue to get along better and resolve all their issues and live catally ever after

 

[Anca]

Well, the weekend went surprisingly well, not sure if they "arranged" something between themselves or the Feliway effect finally wore off but there was very little terorizing this weekend. My old cat feels a lot better now she is off the antibiotics (even doubting I made the right decision to do the meds, maybe I should have waited a while longer), she wants to play, to hang out again and I think she is also handling the young one situation better. She growls when the young one approaches too close, if it touches her she screams, they may sometimes "paw" at each other but it's mostly "air paw" if that makes any sense )) (sort of like "air guitar"). Of course, I supervised this so it does not turn into something more. Another thing I noticed is that she does not retreat, so even if there is chasing or noise, she still comes back in the living room and continues to do her thing. I try to let them set the boundaries now, to see how it goes and will play with them together.

Of course, the young one does most of the chasing and taunting in the morning, when she wants the morning food and play, she was quite energetic this morning and now they are both sleeping here in the living room, mine on the couch and the young one on the floor, so I got some peace now to actually work.

I also got a cat tree, it should arrive tomorow, so really curious if that will create some sort of better bonding. The laser works like a charm in playing the young one until panting, however, I use it with cautiousness because I still want her to play with toys and not obsess with the dot. She was so receptive that I think I started a sort of click-training without even meaning it, as I could stop her from doing absolutely anything by just clicking on the laser buttons, even by covering the light. That took 2 tries with the laser until she associated the noise with what happens, so yeah, that was an interesting experiment.

A next step would be to figure out a way / or get the right toys so that she plays with them in the morning when she feels the most energetic, instead of waiting for me and the old one to get out of bed and save all that she has for her )

 

[di and bob]

You could try some calming treats for the young one too, just to take the edge off. They are not very strong, i have a cat with hyperesthesia and they don't do much. Your older cat will eventually get confident to not run and actually discipline the youngster eventually. After all, the new cat has only been there about 5 months which is nothing in a cat's world. your older cat is somewhat traumatized and may take up to a year to get completely comfortable. but I really think they will!

 

[Alldara]

Air-paw. I love it! That can really become a form of play as well. You're right to let it happen as long as it doesn't escalate.

I'm glad increasing the enrichment is already working. She will likely calm down with time, but you will remain her main source of play for a while yet. Young cats have a lot of energy and cats don't usually play too much on their own.