Domestic Shorthair...color?

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
A few months ago we had a chocolate tabby stray(right?!) find our home. She ended up also being pregnant. After exhausting all options in finding owners she may have had, we kept her and her babies. 💗 Those babies are going to be 12wks on the 23rd. The bear cubs as they are affectionately named, are a pretty beautiful array of colors/patterns.

One chocolate tabby male, one 'saddled backed' black tabby (probably not the right term) female, one chocolate pointed cream male and one female that I have NO idea how to color. I feel like she may be a lavender tabby based off her tail/ears having been blueish grey since birth, but the main part of her body is more...creamish?

I don't know, I've never seen one like her. Please help me?! If these are not good enough pics, I will try to get better ones of her whole self. Thank you! 20191112_234408.jpg 20191112_234423.jpg 20191112_233612.jpg
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,624
Reaction score
3,333
This kitten is a lynx point (tabby point). Since she has a white paw, I think I would describe her color as seal lynx point and white. Her color will darken as she matures. The other kitten in the third picture appears to be a seal point.

Lilac / lavender and chocolate are rare colors, and although they are possible in a random-bred litter, they are extremely unlikely, unless there was inbreeding involved. Perhaps the parents of the litter were closely related?

Feel free to post lots more pictures of the mother and her kittens, and we can help you sort out the colors :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
A seal and seal lynx may be it. I didn't realize the chocolate coloring would be considered seal. At their age, they hardly sit still for pics. Lol Honey, the kitten in the original pics, doesn't photograph well. She is extremely light in color, in person you can barely see her stripes/markings. Panda (the point) reminds me of a ragdoll or snowshoe mix.
I love them, regardless of their colors, I've just never come across them in domestics. 20191114_235552.jpg 20191209_111230.jpg
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,624
Reaction score
3,333
They are lovely kittens :) Do you have pictures of the siblings and mother?

Seal point is the pointed version of black, and seal lynx point is the pointed version of brown tabby. It's normal for a seal lynx point to be quite light in color at this age.

Although chocolate lynx point is a possible color, the chocolate gene is rare enough in the domestic cat gene pool that it's not likely without significant inbreeding. Tail tip color can give a good hint of the base color of a pointed cat. Do you have any good pictures of the kitten's tail?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
I have no idea who the Mom's mate was since she was a stray. She did show up with a mostly white and grey spotted male that we thought was the dad, but we started second guessing that when they were born. He didn't stick around either way. Ha.

I'm going to have to see if I can get some good pictures of them in a while. Here are a couple, but not the best of light. Lol
The kittens.
Top to bottom: Honey, Teddy (brown stripped tab like mom), Grizz ('saddle backed' black tab- she's white everywhere she has tucked under her in this pic. Haha), Panda
20191209_154538.jpg

Panda. The best pic I have of his tail up close, but not the tip. That will be hard to get I think. 20191108_072357.jpg
Tommi, the Mom. The lighting isn't great with my phone, but her stripes are brown and the main color under is a light amberish color. (This is when she was pregnant.) 20191209_153522.jpg
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
Oh, and there was one more kitten, but he has already gone to my sister.
Toffee. He has darker cinnamon/cream color and swirls, not stripes 20191115_105829.jpg
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
Were you talking about Panda's tail or Honey? Honey has a greyish ring tail, Panda's is solid what appears to be brown like his ears.
 

jefferd18

Ms. Jeff's Legacy
Super Cat
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
998
Reaction score
1,889
One of them looks like a seal point. Isn't that weird how they just pop up now and then?
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,624
Reaction score
3,333
What sweet pictures of sleeping babies and mom :)

It's hard to say from mom's picture if she is a brown mackerel tabby, or if her slightly lighter brown stripes are due to a recessive color such as chocolate or sepia ("Burmese" points). Does she have any black areas, or black hairs, anywhere on her body? How would you describe the color of her tail tip, the dark area on the back of her hind legs, and her paw pads?

If Honey's tail tip is gray, that would make her a blue lynx point rather than a seal lynx point. That would explain why her color looks so pale to you. In the picture of all the kittens sleeping together, her tail does appear to have blue (gray) stripes. From the last set of pictures, I would describe the kittens' colors as follows:
  • Teddy: brown mackerel tabby.
  • Grizz: brown mackerel tabby and white.
  • Panda: seal point.
  • Honey: blue lynx point and white.
  • Toffee: either seal lynx point with a classic tabby pattern, or possibly seal mink classic tabby.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
I would say Tommi's tail tip (mom) is as dark a brown as you could get it. Same with the darkest spots on her. So dark brown it almost looks black. I would think it were black if we didn't have a true black cat to compare it to. Ha. What appears to be black toe pads.
Would Teddy and Grizz both be brown mackerel even though the color of their stripes are different colors?
The tip of Honey's tail is dark grey, Panda's is dark brown like Moms.

Thank you for your help. 💗
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
One of them looks like a seal point. Isn't that weird how they just pop up now and then?

It is, in all the litters I've had in the last 20yrs, I've never seen these two colors pop up. Ha. Strays or otherwise. I'm amazed by it honestly. I truly didn't even think it was possible for domestics, I thought it only happened in purebreds on 'purpose'.
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,624
Reaction score
3,333
Ok, Tommi is not a chocolate if her paw pads are black or nearly black. Chocolate cats have lighter paw pads, from rosy brown to cinnamon pink. Tommi could be brown mackerel tabby (statistically most likely), seal sepia mackerel tabby (sepia is the "Burmese" point gene), or seal mink mackerel tabby (one copy of the colorpoint "Siamese" point gene, one copy of the sepia gene).

If Tommi is a seal sepia tabby, that would make all of her pointed kittens actually minks (one sepia gene, and one colorpoint gene).

Brown tabbies can vary in color... so yes, it would be possible for Teddy, Grizz, and Tommi to all be brown mackerel tabbies and be slightly different in color. Brown tabbies have black or dark brown stripes, and a black (or nearly black) tail tip and paw pads.

The father of the litter definitely had white on him, because Tommi doesn't have white on her. It's most likely that the father of the litter was brown tabby and white in color, carrying the following recessive genes: dilute (blue), colorpoint ("Siamese" point), and solid (non-tabby). It's also possible (but less likely) that he could have been black and white, blue tabby and white, blue and white, or (if Tommi is a brown tabby and not sepia), he could have been a pointed version of one of the above colors.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
WOW. So many possibilities. You just taught me so much. That is awesome, thank you!
Does it narrow all of that down since Panda's toe beans are brown? Lsonc

That is truly amazing all the variations that could be.
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,624
Reaction score
3,333
Panda appears to be a seal point or seal mink, so I would expect her paw pads to be dark brown or almost black when she is an adult and her color is fully developed. Pointed and mink cats start out very light in color, and darken as they mature. Also, even in cats that are not pointed, paw pad color can start out a bit lighter in kittens and become darker in adulthood.

Actually, though, that reminds me of one other possible clue about whether the kittens are pointed or mink in color. Were the pointed kittens white at birth, or did they have some color on them?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
Both. Lol Panda pretty much always had his pointed ears, and dark tail, but otherwise was white. Honey was almost completely white (and had the lightest, like 'eggshell' stripes) with a grey tail and grey outlined ears. Toffee had greyish ears (not as dark as panda, but both were still pretty muted in color) and was more creamy white.

In the pic, Toffee is under Tommi, Grizz, Teddy, Honey and Panda. They were only a couple days old *maybe* in this pic. 20191008_065637.jpg
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,624
Reaction score
3,333
In the picture with her kittens, Tommi looks like a normal brown mackerel tabby; her color doesn't look unusual, but maybe she looks more unusual in person. I think the kittens were more than just a few days old in that picture, since they look very chubby and their "points" (ears, nose, feet and tail) have some color. Pointed or mink kittens don't start out with contrasting point color, this develops after they are born.

In the last picture you posted, the kittens look younger and don't have as much point color. They are quite light in color there... it's hard for me to say if they are colorpoint or mink from the picture.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
At birth:
Panda had colored points (ears/tail) in a darker grey color that turned to brown as he got older.
Honey's ears were outlined in grey, tail was grey dusted.
Toffee had greyish ears, darker than Honey, not as dark as Panda.
Their bodies were white everywhere else.



(I only have a video of them at birth, no pictures except the last one.)
 

lutece

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,624
Reaction score
3,333
It is most likely that they are colorpoint kittens and Tommi is a brown mackerel tabby, because the colorpoint gene is quite common in the domestic cat population and the sepia gene is rare. But it is possible that they are mink kittens, and she is a seal sepia mackerel tabby. If you want to know their colors for sure, it is very easy and quick to test for color genes through UC Davis, and it might be a fun and interesting science project for you. :)

Here is the web site with information on UC Davis cat color tests:
All you need are ordinary cotton swabs and a printer. You order the tests on their web site, print the sample submission form, use two cotton swabs to collect DNA from the inside of the cat's cheeks, tape the swabs to the form, and send it through ordinary postal mail. The cost is $40 for a single color test (I would suggest "Colorpoint Restriction" which tests for the presence of the colorpoint and sepia genes), or $60 for the whole color panel which would also test for "Brown" (chocolate and cinnamon) and dilute (blue). I would suggest that you start with just Tommi to determine her color and see what she carries. After UC Davis receives a test, it usually just takes a few days before they send the results by email.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

JustaDreemerr

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
12
Reaction score
15
It is most likely that they are colorpoint kittens and Tommi is a brown mackerel tabby, because the colorpoint gene is quite common in the domestic cat population and the sepia gene is rare. But it is possible that they are mink kittens, and she is a seal sepia mackerel tabby. If you want to know their colors for sure, it is very easy and quick to test for color genes through UC Davis, and it might be a fun and interesting science project for you. :)

Here is the web site with information on UC Davis cat color tests:
[/URL]
All you need are ordinary cotton swabs and a printer. You order the tests on their web site, print the sample submission form, use two cotton swabs to collect DNA from the inside of the cat's cheeks, tape the swabs to the form, and send it through ordinary postal mail. The cost is $40 for a single color test (I would suggest "Colorpoint Restriction" which tests for the presence of the colorpoint and sepia genes), or $60 for the whole color panel which would also test for "Brown" (chocolate and cinnamon) and dilute (blue). I would suggest that you start with just Tommi to determine her color and see what she carries. After UC Davis receives a test, it usually just takes a few days before they send the results by email.
Oh wow, that's awesome! Thank you for all your knowledge! 💗
 
Top