Doll Face Persian or British Long-Hair?

BuzzyBoo

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Buzz 8.jpg

Buzz 10.jpg

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This is my 6 month-old male cat, Buzz. I initially bought him as a Persian (the Doll Face variety) and he was the only grey one in his litter, with his siblings being 2 pure white and one pale ginger. I was also informed the parents were Persians (one black, one white) although only ever saw photos, so who knows! I recently posted a picture of Buzz on a Persian FB group (the 2nd picture here of him sat by his red water bowl) saying about how he is obsessed with playing with his water, and one lady posted back saying he's not a Persian, but rather a British Long-Hair. Another poster then agreed. So now I'm confused as this whole time I believed he was a Persian (having said that, the Breeder initially told me he was a girl, so can't say she has the best credentials when it comes to cats!). Any (respectful) opinions welcome please. And for the record, I don't care what he is, I love him regardless so it's more just for curiosity. Thank you.
 

Meowmee

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Whatever he is he is a beauty, wish I could give him a hug😀

I am not sure but I am leaning towards BLH but he looks similar to the traditonal persian too… his face is a bit longer than the Persian.

Without papers he is not officially a breed though. Did the breeder give you papers and a pedigree and register him? If so that should clear things up because his breed will be written on the registration papers and the Pedigree papers.


Cats from Around the World – Persian Cat - Animal Care Center



Here is a photo collage comparing him to both those breeds.

141B7041-257F-4F32-A53A-69950E4520CE.png
 
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posiepurrs

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If you don’t have registration papers giving the breed, he is a stunningly beautiful long hair domestic. He does not appear to have Persian traits and as for the other breed suggested, I have no knowledge. The term ‘doll face’ is not an official term. It is merely a marketing ploy used by backyard breeders. The correct terms are either non show quality or pet quality.
 

gilmargl

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I'm no expert on breeds, but apart from the colouring, Buzz does look very similar to my BLH - Woolly Bear - though she has no official papers either. She was imported from Russia to produce many pretty babies before being rescued and neutered. I am not sure if BLH is a registered breed of cat but they do exist unofficially and have all the good qualities of a BSH and none of the problems which Persians have with their long, fine fur. The medium-long fur of a BLH is exceedingly soft but requires very little grooming, mainly in the spring. They are sturdily built, thick paws and thick tails whereas Persians are perhaps less stocky underneath their very long coats.
But, all are beautiful cats and we love them whatever breed they are said to be.
Woolly.jpg

I have posted this picture on TCS before. Woolly Bear lies on her back whenever I want to take a photo of her - a characteristic of all the BSHs and BLHs I have ever known. :lol: Does Buzz do it, too?
 

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If you don’t have registration papers giving the breed, he is a stunningly beautiful long hair domestic. He does not appear to have Persian traits and as for the other breed suggested, I have no knowledge. The term ‘doll face’ is not an official term. It is merely a marketing ploy used by backyard breeders. The correct terms are either non show quality or pet quality.
Persians come in many varieties. A doll face persian refers to the classic persian that has a normal face and there's also the peke face persian which is caused by a genetic mutation and causes the cat to have a kind of squished face. However different cat registries around the world refer to them differently. For instance, in South Africa there is a cat registry called the SACC and they refer to peke face persians as "Persians" while chinchillas are classified as a breed of their own called the "Original Longhair Chinchilla" but CFA registers them as chinchilla persians. I have even seen some breeders that are registered with TICA use the term doll face persian in their websites so no, it is not a marketing strategy if its coming from a registered, ethical breeder😊 just that terms may differ around the world🤗
I've also posted an article for your reference:

Cats from Around the World – Persian Cat - Animal Care Center
 

Zara12345

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View attachment 440332
View attachment 440333
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This is my 6 month-old male cat, Buzz. I initially bought him as a Persian (the Doll Face variety) and he was the only grey one in his litter, with his siblings being 2 pure white and one pale ginger. I was also informed the parents were Persians (one black, one white) although only ever saw photos, so who knows! I recently posted a picture of Buzz on a Persian FB group (the 2nd picture here of him sat by his red water bowl) saying about how he is obsessed with playing with his water, and one lady posted back saying he's not a Persian, but rather a British Long-Hair. Another poster then agreed. So now I'm confused as this whole time I believed he was a Persian (having said that, the Breeder initially told me he was a girl, so can't say she has the best credentials when it comes to cats!). Any (respectful) opinions welcome please. And for the record, I don't care what he is, I love him regardless so it's more just for curiosity. Thank you.
Aww what a beauty😍😍 he looks a bit like both to me but definitely more persian than British. The two breeds however do have some similar features in terms of facial structure so without a pedigree showing the cats proper lineage you can't classify him as either breed.
 

posiepurrs

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Persians come in many varieties. A doll face persian refers to the classic persian that has a normal face and there's also the peke face persian which is caused by a genetic mutation and causes the cat to have a kind of squished face. However different cat registries around the world refer to them differently. For instance, in South Africa there is a cat registry called the SACC and they refer to peke face persians as "Persians" while chinchillas are classified as a breed of their own called the "Original Longhair Chinchilla" but CFA registers them as chinchilla persians. I have even seen some breeders that are registered with TICA use the term doll face persian in their websites so no, it is not a marketing strategy if its coming from a registered, ethical breeder😊 just that terms may differ around the world🤗
I've also posted an article for your reference:

Cats from Around the World – Persian Cat - Animal Care Center
The Peke faced Persians were all red tabby Persians and have not been bred since the 70s I believe. What people call Peke faced Persians are standard bred Persians. I highly doubt any association that registers cats would use the term doll face. Those breeders use it because the public will buy from the description, hence it is a marketing ploy. I bred shaded silver and shaded golden Persians for over 20 years and can assure you that NO serious breeder of my acquaintance would use doll face as a descriptive term for a pet quality kitten. It devalues the breed. I understand different associations register different breeds and some include colors that others don’t.
 
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BuzzyBoo

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Whatever he is he is a beauty, wish I could give him a hug😀

I am not sure but I am leaning towards BLH but he looks similar to the traditonal persian too… his face is a bit longer than the Persian.

Without papers he is not officially a breed though. Did the breeder give you papers and a pedigree and register him? If so that should clear things up because his breed will be written on the registration papers and the Pedigree papers.


Cats from Around the World – Persian Cat - Animal Care Center



Here is a photo collage comparing him to both those breeds.

View attachment 440353
Thank you, I really appreciate you taking the time to send me the video and the photos, the cats here are real beauties and Buzz certainly looks like a BLH. Having said that, he doesn't have the papers so in reality he's probably just a domesticated longhair who is luckily enough to have the BLH looks! Or perhaps I should call him an 'unofficial breed' ;)
 
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BuzzyBoo

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The Peke faced Persians were all red tabby Persians and have not been bred since the 70s I believe. What people call Peke faced Persians are standard bred Persians. I highly doubt any association that registers cats would use the term doll face. Those breeders use it because the public will buy from the description, hence it is a marketing ploy. I bred shaded silver and shaded golden Persians for over 20 years and can assure you that NO serious breeder of my acquaintance would use doll face as a descriptive term for a pet quality kitten. It devalues the breed. I understand different associations register different breeds and some include colors that others don’t.
Thank you for your reply, and it makes total sense what you're saying. It was actually me who used the term 'Doll Face', not the breeder - Buzz was actually advertised with his litter as simply 'Persian'. So I will take the blame of the inappropriate use of the word as I trusted our good friend 'Google' to give me the questionable term 'Doll Face' to describe the Persians which don't have the squished faces. I'm not an expert so I appreciate your clarification, thank you <3
 
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BuzzyBoo

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Aww what a beauty😍😍 he looks a bit like both to me but definitely more persian than British. The two breeds however do have some similar features in terms of facial structure so without a pedigree showing the cats proper lineage you can't classify him as either breed.
Thank you, I agree he looks like a bit of both. I can find pictures of both breeds online which look absolutely identical to him so it does become confusing. This is why I was hoping for some clarity with this forum. Having said that, a lady did came forward recently on a FB post who was a TIKA registered breeder of BLH and said he was without a doubt a BLH and she'd been breeding them for many years. So I guess that's a pretty reliable source. Although as has been mentioned on here, without the papers he's essentially just a beautiful longhaired domestic moggie ;)
 
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BuzzyBoo

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Persians come in many varieties. A doll face persian refers to the classic persian that has a normal face and there's also the peke face persian which is caused by a genetic mutation and causes the cat to have a kind of squished face. However different cat registries around the world refer to them differently. For instance, in South Africa there is a cat registry called the SACC and they refer to peke face persians as "Persians" while chinchillas are classified as a breed of their own called the "Original Longhair Chinchilla" but CFA registers them as chinchilla persians. I have even seen some breeders that are registered with TICA use the term doll face persian in their websites so no, it is not a marketing strategy if its coming from a registered, ethical breeder😊 just that terms may differ around the world🤗
I've also posted an article for your reference:

Cats from Around the World – Persian Cat - Animal Care Center
This is very interesting, thank you for sharing your thoughts and this link. Indeed the terms used for the Persians (and other cats, I'm sure) are probably just a regional thing - as with anything in this world, different things are referred to by different names depending on where in the world you are! Appreciate your insight :)
 
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BuzzyBoo

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I'm no expert on breeds, but apart from the colouring, Buzz does look very similar to my BLH - Woolly Bear - though she has no official papers either. She was imported from Russia to produce many pretty babies before being rescued and neutered. I am not sure if BLH is a registered breed of cat but they do exist unofficially and have all the good qualities of a BSH and none of the problems which Persians have with their long, fine fur. The medium-long fur of a BLH is exceedingly soft but requires very little grooming, mainly in the spring. They are sturdily built, thick paws and thick tails whereas Persians are perhaps less stocky underneath their very long coats.
But, all are beautiful cats and we love them whatever breed they are said to be.
View attachment 440352
I have posted this picture on TCS before. Woolly Bear lies on her back whenever I want to take a photo of her - a characteristic of all the BSHs and BLHs I have ever known. :lol: Does Buzz do it, too?
Oh wow, Woolly Bear is GORGEOUS and I just want to cuddle him! To be honest, Buzz doesn't perform for the cameras but then he's only still a kitten at just under 7 months old so he's still at that age where he won't keep still for photos and I have to take loads of photos before he will actually look at the camera. I guess he'll settle down as he gets older. But he does LOVE belly rubs. Thank you for the information you provided, I guess I will be able to tell more as Buzz gets older and I can see what his structure and fur will eventually look like (I believe he will be fully developed by 2 years old???). Right now his fur is super soft like silk and he barely sheds, but then we're currently in winter so it's hard to tell. So let's see! :)
 

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Thank you, I really appreciate you taking the time to send me the video and the photos, the cats here are real beauties and Buzz certainly looks like a BLH. Having said that, he doesn't have the papers so in reality he's probably just a domesticated longhair who is luckily enough to have the BLH looks! Or perhaps I should call him an 'unofficial breed' ;)
you’re welcome 😀

Well I can tell you in my mind there is absolutely no question that he has one of those breeds in him because a cat does not get the flattened facial features without that so he has to have a recent relative. At least one parent. Domestic cats do not get brachycephalic faces like that naturally.
 

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Thank you for your reply, and it makes total sense what you're saying. It was actually me who used the term 'Doll Face', not the breeder - Buzz was actually advertised with his litter as simply 'Persian'. So I will take the blame of the inappropriate use of the word as I trusted our good friend 'Google' to give me the questionable term 'Doll Face' to describe the Persians which don't have the squished faces. I'm not an expert so I appreciate your clarification, thank you <3
I found one breeder who appears to be a long time breeder of 30 years who site is called doll face Persian‘s so I don’t think it’s a term that no breeders use either.
 

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Quite possibly, Meowmee but I would be willing to bet that breeder is not breeding to show standard. I tend to believe if you are not breeding to achieve something ( like to have a cat to show or improve the breed) and only producing pet quality you are contributing to the overpopulation problems. I know I come off as pushy and probably narrow minded but I love the Persian breed and hate it that some people think they can just throw any 2 cats together and make thousands of dollars! Just for the record, I bred for 20+ years and lost money on every litter!
 

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I found one breeder who appears to be a long time breeder of 30 years who site is called doll face Persian‘s so I don’t think it’s a term that no breeders use either.
Quite possibly, Meowmee but I would be willing to bet that breeder is not breeding to show standard. I tend to believe if you are not breeding to achieve something ( like to have a cat to show or improve the breed) and only producing pet quality you are contributing to the overpopulation problems. I know I come off as pushy and probably narrow minded but I love the Persian breed and hate it that some people think they can just throw any 2 cats together and make thousands of dollars! Just for the record, I bred for 20+ years and lost money on every litter!
Christypaw persians is a registered and a very reputable breeder of shaded persians. She breeds the most beautiful persians and if her cats are not to standard I dunno what is lol. She's even added a section to her website talking about doll face persians and the benefits they hold over the flat face ones.
 

Zara12345

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Quite possibly, Meowmee but I would be willing to bet that breeder is not breeding to show standard. I tend to believe if you are not breeding to achieve something ( like to have a cat to show or improve the breed) and only producing pet quality you are contributing to the overpopulation problems. I know I come off as pushy and probably narrow minded but I love the Persian breed and hate it that some people think they can just throw any 2 cats together and make thousands of dollars! Just for the record, I bred for 20+ years and lost money on every litter!
Out of interest, what term do you use to describe the traditional persians with the doll face? (sorry if the term offends you). I also love the Persian breed and I can understand when breeders say they lose a lot of money. Undoubtedly food expenses and those unexpected vet bills can add up a lot to the cost
 

posiepurrs

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Out of interest, what term do you use to describe the traditional persians with the doll face? (sorry if the term offends you). I also love the Persian breed and I can understand when breeders say they lose a lot of money. Undoubtedly food expenses and those unexpected vet bills can add up a lot to the cost
Pet quality or non show quality. I guess I am coming off badly, but I don’t believe in breeding just for the sake of breeding pets. I guess to each their own. I checked out the page on the breeders website about ‘doll face. Some of the statements are incorrect. I am not going to hijack this thread any longer though, so as I have said, to each their own.
 
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Meowmee

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Quite possibly, Meowmee but I would be willing to bet that breeder is not breeding to show standard. I tend to believe if you are not breeding to achieve something ( like to have a cat to show or improve the breed) and only producing pet quality you are contributing to the overpopulation problems. I know I come off as pushy and probably narrow minded but I love the Persian breed and hate it that some people think they can just throw any 2 cats together and make thousands of dollars! Just for the record, I bred for 20+ years and lost money on every litter!
Everyone is entitled to their feelings/opinions. I tend to like the traditional look of a lot breeds, in most cases they look more beautiful and natural to me. I don't really understand and am against taking it to such extremes as with extreme wedgies in siamese and some other breeds which is known to cause health issues. I do prefer the traditional persians too and they remind me of Siberians, the face is similar.

I don't find fault with traditional breeders who have often broken off from those extremes, or the new look. I think what really causes most of overpopulation is not breeding but people who do not spay/neuter and then dump their cats outside to fend for themselves. Yes the mill type breeders contribute a bit but not as much as the poor domestics who become feral cats or free roaming cats, only a tiny percentage of those are pb or even pb mixes. I have taken in 3 cats this year alone, the last of my small outdoor colony.

I am certainly no expert on the whole breeding scene, I will never breed cats. I am sure it is very stressful. I have only ever had one pb kitty my Quinn who is an old style siamese. Because I thought I could train him to be a diabetic alert cat... he is super smart but so strong willed he will only do what he wants a lot of the time, lol. He does follow me all over the place and monitors me, he is my guardian.

I don't really care if a cat is show quality etc. I am never going to show my cats, I have never even been to a cat show, lol. I would like to see one some time maybe. I used to know someone who got one of her persians from a breeder at a cat show and she always purchased pb persian cats for a lot of money at that time. But she declawed all of her poor cats, she never had more than one cat at a time. I had to bite my tongue, she was a friend of another friend. One of her cats went blind at an early age.

Anyway I am getting off track. I am sure you were a great breeder and your cats are beautiful too 😁
 
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