dog safety question

[Kflowers]

I have a mature car whose a/c doesn't really get to the backseat very well. I took our over weight lab/shepherd out day before yesterday and she sat in the back seat. I could not get the seat belt fastened on her since she would not get on the seat until we were moving. No, I can not pick her up, she weighs 80 lbs. She is on a diet. I had the a/c on and a fan to direct the cool to the back seat. She didn't seem to want to look out the windows, but kept jumping from floor to seat. She panted the entire time we were out. She was never left alone in the car, nor was the a/c turned off except for 5 minutes to get gas.

I need to take her to the vet for general check up. I know that if she's in the front passenger seat and the air bag deploys she can be badly injured or killed. I can get the seat belt fastened in her harness made for seat belts if she is in the front. We live in a smallish city. My question is - is she safer in the back seat where she pants without stopping and risks over heating or in the passenger seat and risk the airbag?

I did make bags of ice for her to lean on and sit on. Suggestions?

 

[VioletReaver]

Panting for dogs can be a stress response, so it's possible your dog isn't overheating and is just a little stressed over the experience. Not wanting to look out the windows and jumping between the floor and the seat are also things my dog did when she was first getting used to the car and was a bit nervous.

With airbags, the problem is the force the airbag deploys with can be greater than a dogs head/chest can take and can break bones. While the ideal situation is to harness him into the back seat, if you cannot do that then the back is still likely safer for short drives at low speeds. What you don't want is to slam on your brakes or hit something in front of you and have the dog fly into the front seat or out the windshield. That's very dangerous for you and the doggo. If you can, hook a leash to his harness and attach the leash to the back seat or seatbelt.

Something else you could try is to calm him down before you start driving. I had to do this for my skittish dog, and now she loves car rides. Start by just getting him near the car and giving him praise/treats until he looks relaxed. Once he's calm, open the door, let him get in if he likes but then just wait with the door open and wait for him to be relaxed again. Hopefully, if you can get here, you will be able to cajole him into the seat where he can be harnessed. Make sure he's calm when you harness him, and if he gets excited or anxious, just wait again. Keep going as you sit in the car, turn it on and idle, and eventually drive. If you can, take him for a couple short drives where you just loop back to the house before he goes to the vet, so that he doesn't think every car ride ends in the vet!

It took me about 40 minutes to do this the first time with my dog, about 20 the second, and by the third she had gotten it and was able to be pretty calm throughout.

You also don't have to do this all at once. It might be nice to just practice getting in and out!

Good luck!

 

[Kflowers]

thank you, V VioletReaver . I was shocked since before she'd jumped on the back seat and let me fasten her seat belt. But learning comes and goes. I'm really glad you explained about the panting. I never had one pant so much in the car, hide on the floor and refuse to move, yes, pant no. However, this one is the first chubby one I've had. I will focus on getting her on the back seat and the seat belt through her harness. The idea is for both of us to survive this. (selfish visions of myself squashed between the airbag and the puppy.)

 

[fionasmom]

How far away is the vet? If this is not a long ride, you can probably make it successfully with her between using the back seat, trying to secure her with a harness, and running the fan and AC. Dogs only breathe through their nose, not their mouth and have no sweat glands except in their feet which is why in very hot weather feet may seem moist. It is hard for them to lower their body temperature.

There are cooling mats you can buy that you could possibly put on the seat.

Best Dog Cooling Mats & Cooling Pads | 2021 Reviews | Retrievist

The chances of an accident which deploys the air bag are probably slim, but it could be one of those situations where you only get one chance, so I would not put her in the front seat.

When I worked with a dog rescue group, we sometimes had to transport a dog quickly. If the dog would not allow the seatbelt we would close the door on the lead to make sure that the dog could not come flying forward. But this was only with a harness and never with a collar. Not ideal, but it did provide some safety and out here there are vehicle code laws about dogs who are free range in a car and you can be cited for it.

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I don't know if dog car guards or barriers would help. This is what I have used with all the GSDs over the years.

 

[Kflowers]

fionasmom , thanks. It's a twenty minute trip. And there will be a second one closer to August. Planning went completely askew this year. But we're here and that's good enough. Okay, I shouldn't have let her gain weight, but she did.

We tried a barrier but it made it even hotter in the back seat, which was a shame cause it was a very nice barrier. On the other hand Daisy doesn't try to help me drive which is good.

Cooling mat at the ready. I wasn't sure if they really help or not, but we got it and it fits the backseat!

Thought about what you said about shutting the lead in the door. She has a super expensive harness, which everything in extra large seems to be, it weighs almost 2 pounds and has a nice chest cover, which protects her sternum though it might be a bit warm. But, you made me remember that I've got a belt - about 2 inches wide, heavy weave, for carrying duffel bags that can slip through the harness and reach the seat belt from the floor. This is good since she likes to sit behind me.

I've already made the bags of ice cubes. Can't have too many ice cubes down here.

So happy to not be thinking this through alone and for the reassurances for a short trip. Part of the panic on my part is I've never had a pudgy dog before. All my fault.

Thank you again. I totally forgot about the duffel bag belt.

 

[fionasmom]

Weight can be hard to control in dogs and labs especially can gain weight. My elderly GSD has Cushings, so his weight is really out of control now although he was successfully treated for 6 years. Losing a leg made him less active, so that was another point. It can happen even with the best intentions.

 

[Kflowers]

thank you.

Cushings is a shock. one of the cats got it from the cortisone the vet gave her. He didn't warn me, but there wasn't much choice. I'm glad you mentioned it, because now I know why she plumped up. I'm sorry your dog has to deal, but he fortunate to have you.

We spent the first year with Daisy trying to find a harness she couldn't slip out of, which was way more difficult than it should have been. She gained 20 lbs the first year we had her. Neither of us had had a lab before. She lost the weight. Still looking for a harness. Then realized if I was the one who was walking her she'd probably gain weight from our speed. Nonetheless, I was going to walk her to make her happy, then covid and the quarantine. She gained the weight again. On the up side she doesn't bark at every person, dog, cat, squirrel, bird, or small animal that goes by the house. Being a self- appointed guard dog seems to keep dogs fit. I got used to it, some others of us did not.

 

[fionasmom]

Cushings can be a mess and I know that cats can get it as well. When Orlando (present GSD) was a puppy he slipped out of a harness on a busy street which made me realize how important the right harness is. I have mostly used Ruffwear products including one now that helps me to lift him. Your pup sounds like a lovely girl and I really like labs.

 

[Kflowers]

Thank you, she's rather bigger than I was used to, not stronger, just bigger. Not counting her head she's 42 inches long. She can sleep in two doorways at once. That's also why it's amazing that she's slipped out of several harnesses. We have her seat belt harness which isn't her walking harness and her walking harness, which is a walk your dog with love. It seems to kinda push on one of the front legs if they take off, which I don't like, but I can't let her run around the neighborhood naked and this one seems to stay on. She said warily.

 

[Kflowers]

We went to the vet and came home, all was well, except. The harness/seat belt. I got it on her and I got the seat belt threaded through the handles. Before we got to the main street she was out of it. She stayed in the back seat. At the vet I examined the harness - the seat belt was still hooked in its lock, the harness was still locked. All the fastening fastened. Same thing happened on the way home.

Now when I put the harness on her, I get her excited about being - she's a lab, she does that- so she exhales and I can be sure the harness is actually tight. It was.

I'm posting the harness below in case anyone has a suggestion for what I'm doing wrong or a better harness. If the answer is "What you have her is lab magic, that's the way they are." I'm good with that too. And thank you.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N55BXJH/?tag=thecatsite

 

[fionasmom]

Glad that you made the trip safely even with a free range dog in the car. I have found that some of these harnesses are tricky to adjust correctly and you might be on the right track thinking that she was excited and so the sizing was too loose initially. You might need to make it tighter than you think is comfortable, not hurting her but tight, for the duration of the trip. Did any of the pieces which attach slide a little? That is another problem I have had with some of these harnesses.

 

[Kflowers]

I thought of that and tightened it at the vet to be sure I didn't do it too tight, when I first got it. We stopped when it was pressing into her visibly. She didn't complain. I walked her around to get the exhale, I can't bring myself to knee the dog as one would a horse. Is that a mistake?

I can get her walking harness tighter than the seat belt since it doesn't have the heavy breast plate. There is a very stiff 'plate' on the back where the handles are that I put the car seat belt through.

I think what happens is that the harness is attached to the car seat belt meaning it will only go so far. She puts her head down and backs out of the harness using the seat belt to pull it over her head. Does that make sense?

I use the shoulder seat belt to go through the harness not the lap belt.

 

[fionasmom]

It does. I think that she backs out of it. Every dog I have ever had that got out of a harness including the current GSD when he was young backed out of it. I use the Ruffwear Flagline harness currently and it appears to be escape proof but now he is older and unlikely to go anywhere.

Not sure what you mean about using your knee and I have no horse experience.

 

[Kflowers]

Thank you.

Horses are smarter than most people think. When you put a saddle on an experienced horse they inhale so that when you tighten the girth that holds the saddle on it will be lose when they exhale. You're supposed to knee them, prod them with your knee to make them exhale so you can tighten the saddle and it not fall off. It sort of works. Rather than that I try to get pups distracted so she exhales.

I was looking at soft harnesses, that wouldn't give her the leverage. I will now go look at the Ruffwear. I really want to be able to secure her. I had one almost hit the dash board and stories of worse are enough for me. Oh, yeah, and the pancake thing between the dog and the air bag with me in the middle.

 

[fionasmom]

Very interesting about horses and I did not know that at all. They are very smart, and very beautiful. I just have no experience of them out here.

I am not trying to tell you what to buy. The quality of Ruffwear is excellent if you decide that one might work for you. Can you return the ones that don't or do you have a collection of harnesses now?

 

[Kflowers]

I'm relieved you made a suggestion before I had to beg. I had the two from precious smaller dogs, too small for Daisy. Then another which vanished, it might be hidden in the back yard. Then the super one that she can get out of. I could keep it to put on and off of her rather than go to a gym. But, fortunately, I ask before it gets too bad. Those harnesses are expensive. collection of harnesses is okay, cause you never know who might turn up.

I'm looking at the Ruffwear Flag now, it looks as thought the back plate maybe be stiff to hard, but the breast plate is soft? And the seat belt goes through the handle on the back? I don't really trust little hooks.

 

[fionasmom]

It is a relatively soft harness all around and is really designed to lift your dog, as you can see from the pics on the site, if you go hiking with them. I use it to help my GSD stay up as he ages and weakens and it has been very helpful for that. But I see your point about attaching it to a seatbelt which I don't do. When he goes in the car, we put him in the back of my SUV, and he is too tired to try anything at this age.

Yes, it is amazing what we collect over the years.

 

[Kflowers]

I just have an elderly sedan, which means on any sharp stop, Daisy is thrown into the back of my seat. This happens because she insists on sitting behind me, okay, that's her choice and she insists on standing up for the whole ride. I didn't think she looked out the windows, but Sis said she does, so that explains the standing.

I got the first seat belts because a sharp stop sent one into the dashboard, not hurt, but left me afraid about her going through the windshield. This was when the first seat belts were made for dogs by a man who lost his dogs when they went through the windshield.

With the next car there is the airbag problem. Which should mean a dog won't go through the windshield. However, they'll be damaged by the air bag. A dog's bones are better than mine, so I probably won't survive a crash. It would be nice if they take Daisy and SG home to Sis afterward.

I'm excited and hopeful about the Ruffwear as a seat belt. Daisy is usually a quiet dog, but bounces in the car. Understandably, her life isn't that exciting, which from our view is a good thing.

Thanks for suggesting the Ruffwear, it's very confusing out there.

 

[fionasmom]

It is illegal out here not to have a dog restrained in the car. LAPD pulled over the daughter of a friend who had a very small chihuahua in the front seat and gave her a thorough talking to and threatened a ticket.

I do understand your concern because a dog who pitched forward in a car, even without going through the window, could suffer a head injury depending on how they landed.

Can you call Ruffwear and talk to them about the harnesses? They will probably know customer use and experience on their products.

 

[Kflowers]

I ordered it. We are optimistic.

I like restraints for both of us. I once suddenly found myself driving a friend's labs to board for the night. One stepped on my seat belt and almost strangled me. And there was the mastiff who was too big for any seat belts I had. He tried to drive by reaching over me for the steering wheel. Glad we weren't in the city.

I'm not too worried about being stopped, there is a woman who drives with her basset hound in her lap, his head out the window... Just no. It's too dangerous.

I rescued a small dog mini-poodle size, Benji type and she jumped in my lap several times in the first block after picking her up. She rode the rest of the way in the cat carrier I always have to hand.