Does this sound like a hopeful situation?

[labstuff444]

Hi, I'm new here and in the middle of a crisis with my 2 cats. They are both spayed females that are 11 and 4 years old. I've had them both their entire lives.
They've always gotten along decently well. Never *best friends*, but no real issues. UNTIL, almost 2 weeks ago. A stray cat showed up at my window and FREAKED my younger one out so bad she literally sprayed and pooped herself while screaming and running out of the room. My other cat happened to be in her path and they started fighting pretty bad. Thankfully I was able to separate them with minimal injury. Mostly just some loose hair and saliva.
Since then, I've put film up on my windows to block any cats making eye contact from the outside, set them up in two separate rooms and rotated them for a few days (no seeing each other), to rotating them in separate rooms but feeding them with one being in/out of a large dog crate.
The first few days they were both very skittish.
But now they can eat while seeing each other pretty well. There is slight tension, but there's been no aggression. Occasionally they'll start the staring but I distract from that.
They've gotten to where they'll nose up through the bars and not react poorly. And I'll take turns playing with them near the other (but not totally free in the same room yet).
Finally, I had them see the vet and have them on a low ish dose of gabapentin which has been a lifesaver (for them letting me sleep some) and I think it's taking a little tension out of the situation.
The vet says I'm handling the situation appropriately and i feel like they might be okay. But I'm afraid to rush them. Since it's only been maybe 2 weeks since the incident, i feel like they may need a little more down time.
But, does this sound hopeful in anyone's experience? And also when would be a good time to start having some *supervised* loose time together?

...my big fear is that my 11 year old could really hurt the other as she is MASSIVE and very athletic. Not typically aggressive at all but has been on edge since she was attacked.

 

[di and bob]

Incidents like these can take a while to be resolved. Your cats experienced redirected aggression caused by seeing the cat outdoors and literally attacked the closet thing. it is definitely time for them to see/sniff each other, don't keep them separated entirely or they will begin to forget each other. when my cats did this, they kept a wide berth between themselves for at least a week and growled when the other came too close. Your smaller cat should be quicker and able to escape, is there a high-up place she can go and defend herself? Keep doing what you are doing, and maybe also supervised visits. Try to keep the other cat away with some 'critter' deterrent or a sprinkler that is motion activated. My cats eventually got used to the other cats around. If one of your cats sees the outside cat again, try to scoop up the other and get them to another room, if they don't physically fight it goes much quicker. Never approach the cat that is seeing the other out the window, they are so intent ANY movement sets them off. Get the other cat safe and go out and scare the visiting cat away. Really be careful going out, your girl will dart out quickly to get to the other. This is something that unfortunately happens, but eventually, things will work out. You did well keeping them apart for a while, you have a lot more patience than me!

 

[Alldara]

You've done a great job! You could try feeding them together without a barrier first and then end the session right away. It's also about increasing your comfort level too.

But know that if you can keep yourself calm, you can get this sorted. You've done everything to you best so far and you are reaping the rewards with all the progress you've made.

 

[Kwik]

Of course it's hopeful,no doubt about it.....it's always hopeful when a pet parent cares as much as you do and is doing EVERY right!Just as di and bob and A Alldara have both said
...and now there's 3 in agreement,hope that puts you at ease
As mentioned,I believe you can begin your short,supervised visits and no barrier during feeding( short sessions,yes)..... it will go back to normal soon enough you can rest assured

 

[iPappy]

A few weeks ago, my two girls saw something outside and got into a fight like you described. No injuries, but there was noise and hair all over the floor. They were sleeping side by side within 24 hours.
My cats didn't seem to get a fright like yours did, so I think taking it slow is a VERY good idea where there was that level of fear involved! If a cat voids like that, it usually means that they feel their life is in serious danger.
Do you think a Feliway plug in would help calm them? I have never used them myself but have heard good things about them.
Also, have you done any scent swapping? You could switch out their blankets or toys so they smell like the other cat and get them re-used to their scent.
As A Alldara said, keeping yourself calm and relaxed will help a lot. They are little sponges when it comes to emotions. You've seen great progress, so go into this reminding yourself of that progress and that if things get a little too intense, you can always take a step back, wait, and try again.
This short video goes over the "cat blink", that basically says "I love you". I've seen cats, my own and others, use this type of communication during a period of tension to diffuse it. When you're hanging out with them, try it. It seems to help cats relax.

 

[labstuff444]

Incidents like these can take a while to be resolved. Your cats experienced redirected aggression caused by seeing the cat outdoors and literally attacked the closet thing. it is definitely time for them to see/sniff each other, don't keep them separated entirely or they will begin to forget each other. when my cats did this, they kept a wide berth between themselves for at least a week and growled when the other came too close. Your smaller cat should be quicker and able to escape, is there a high-up place she can go and defend herself? Keep doing what you are doing, and maybe also supervised visits. Try to keep the other cat away with some 'critter' deterrent or a sprinkler that is motion activated. My cats eventually got used to the other cats around. If one of your cats sees the outside cat again, try to scoop up the other and get them to another room, if they don't physically fight it goes much quicker. Never approach the cat that is seeing the other out the window, they are so intent ANY movement sets them off. Get the other cat safe and go out and scare the visiting cat away. Really be careful going out, your girl will dart out quickly to get to the other. This is something that unfortunately happens, but eventually, things will work out. You did well keeping them apart for a while, you have a lot more patience than me!

Thank you! Sadly the smaller one is a menace and doesn't back down or run and it is a problem. But it seems like they're progressing pretty quickly.

 

[labstuff444]

You've done a great job! You could try feeding them together without a barrier first and then end the session right away. It's also about increasing your comfort level too.

But know that if you can keep yourself calm, you can get this sorted. You've done everything to you best so far and you are reaping the rewards with all the progress you've made.

Thank you!! I'm trying, but its nice to have validation from other cat people that it makes sense.
They ate together today with no barrier and then hung out for about ten minutes no problem. Even rubbed up on each other. I ended on that note and put one (the wilder one) back in the crate. But then she did a weird jump in the crate, made a weird noise and that startled my older one and she charged and biased. Thankfully they couldn't touch each other. But I separated them and they seemed to relax quickly so I don't think itll be a massive setback. Just need to figure out how to work on that startle response.

 

[labstuff444]

Of course it's hopeful,no doubt about it.....it's always hopeful when a pet parent cares as much as you do and is doing EVERY right!Just as di and bob and A Alldara have both said
...and now there's 3 in agreement,hope that puts you at ease
As mentioned,I believe you can begin your short,supervised visits and no barrier during feeding( short sessions,yes)..... it will go back to normal soon enough you can rest assured

Thank you! I did that today with no issues (feeding with no barrier) but after I had one back in the crate again, she made a crash in the crate and startled my older one. Then she proceeded to charge the crate and hiss. They calmed down fine after but I need to figure out how to calm that startle response I believe.

 

[labstuff444]

A few weeks ago, my two girls saw something outside and got into a fight like you described. No injuries, but there was noise and hair all over the floor. They were sleeping side by side within 24 hours.
My cats didn't seem to get a fright like yours did, so I think taking it slow is a VERY good idea where there was that level of fear involved! If a cat voids like that, it usually means that they feel their life is in serious danger.
Do you think a Feliway plug in would help calm them? I have never used them myself but have heard good things about them.
Also, have you done any scent swapping? You could switch out their blankets or toys so they smell like the other cat and get them re-used to their scent.
As A Alldara said, keeping yourself calm and relaxed will help a lot. They are little sponges when it comes to emotions. You've seen great progress, so go into this reminding yourself of that progress and that if things get a little too intense, you can always take a step back, wait, and try again.
This short video goes over the "cat blink", that basically says "I love you". I've seen cats, my own and others, use this type of communication during a period of tension to diffuse it. When you're hanging out with them, try it. It seems to help cats relax.

Thank you! I do use the feliway plug in. The multi cat one. My vet reccomended it. I'm not sure yet if it's helping. It says it could take a month or so. But if the vet reccomends it, I bet there is some validity to it.
And yes! The swap rooms night/ day when they aren't in/out of the crate near each other.

Also I LOVE Jackson galaxy. It's a good tip.

 

[Kwik]

Thank you! I did that today with no issues (feeding with no barrier) but after I had one back in the crate again, she made a crash in the crate and startled my older one. Then she proceeded to charge the crate and hiss. They calmed down fine after but I need to figure out how to calm that startle response I believe.

Is she reacting to being put in the crate,can you clarify or give a little more description of how & when she was startled?I'm not getting a clear picture of the scenario..

I'm wondering what she's reacting to,are there some yummy treats in the crate ,is she going in with your older one nearby ? TV on or something you're not aware of? It's important you remain calm,reassuring and confident..... maybe best to put the older timid girl in a separate room before crating the younger one,giving her a moment and then letting your other girl out ....
Gotta get to the bottom of what sets thus girl off,you know"an ounce of prevention"

 

[labstuff444]

Is she reacting to being put in the crate,can you clarify or give a little more description of how & when she was startled?I'm not getting a clear picture of the scenario..

I'm wondering what she's reacting to,are there some yummy treats in the crate ,is she going in with your older one nearby ? TV on or something you're not aware of? It's important you remain calm,reassuring and confident..... maybe best to put the older timid girl in a separate room before crating the younger one,giving her a moment and then letting your other girl out ....
Gotta get to the bottom of what sets thus girl off,you know"an ounce of prevention"

The one IN the crate was fine. She just was doing cat stuff. But her making noise IN the crate set off my other cat.

 

[Kwik]

The one IN the crate was fine. She just was doing cat stuff. But her making noise IN the crate set off my other cat.

Oh I see,so the older,quiet kitty is easily startled,a real "scaredy cat ",huh?
I once had a little female that was startled by everything and anything,funny too because I adopted her with her little best pal at 5wks old who was confident,courageous and her complete opposite plus he adored her and was very protective of her.... the little scaredy cat was very sweet but just that way despite my every attempt to help her out- she probably would've been a good candidate for a low dosage of gabapentin.....ever consider or talk to the vet about it?

 

[Alldara]

L labstuff444 Have you taken the jumpy one to the vet recently? (Sorry if I missed that when rescanning to check) Not feeling well can impact that.

You can also try playing some music. The constant noise helps to prevent a startle noise.

 

[Kwik]

L labstuff444 Have you taken the jumpy one to the vet recently? (Sorry if I missed that when rescanning to check) Not feeling well can impact that.

You can also try playing some music. The constant noise helps to prevent a startle noise.

So true,when I first tried enticing Timmy to come indoors to eat I didn't understand his hesitancy until I realized it was the TV in the background---- very often we become numb to the constant " noise "around us and forget that cats hearing is1000 times better than hours.....great advice,those CatTV videos on YouTube are fantastic,cat music,nature sounds to calm cats

 

[labstuff444]

L labstuff444 Have you taken the jumpy one to the vet recently? (Sorry if I missed that when rescanning to check) Not feeling well can impact that.

You can also try playing some music. The constant noise helps to prevent a startle noise.

Yes! They've both been to the vet and are on a low ish dose of gabapentin

 

[Kwik]

Yes! They've both been to the vet and are on a low ish dose of gabapentin

May I ask what the Vet said?I don't know the dosage he prescribed so I'm just wondering if it might be real low(eg:25mg) & if he may have suggested a little higher for the jumpy girl?
Some folks swear by CBD products,not just for aches & pains but for stress relief.... to be quite honest Ivd tried it out with cats and have not noticed a thing,as a matter of fact I tried it on myself long before it was available everywhere you turn,at one time it was obtained only for use on animals ,nada!But some properties might have different effects on different ... just throwing that out there

 

[labstuff444]

May I ask what the Vet said?I don't know the dosage he prescribed so I'm just wondering if it might be real low(eg:25mg) & if he may have suggested a little higher for the jumpy girl?
Some folks swear by CBD products,not just for aches & pains but for stress relief.... to be quite honest Ivd tried it out with cats and have not noticed a thing,as a matter of fact I tried it on myself long before it was available everywhere you turn,at one time it was obtained only for use on animals ,nada!But some properties might have different effects on different ... just throwing that out there

They get 25-50 mg depending on the day. But my bigger one has an appointment this week and I may ask about upping it. Also I'll look into the cbd! Do you have any specific brand that you recommend?

 

[Kwik]

They get 25-50 mg depending on the day. But my bigger one has an appointment this week and I may ask about upping it. Also I'll look into the cbd! Do you have any specific brand that you recommend?

The one I heard the best reports about is by cv sciences-I took a photo so you can see the bottle,although the distributor is here in Florida I actually purchased online...
The CBD(hemp oil) I was getting for the horses was big huge bottles,overpriced and imo useless.... the little bottle you see was reasonably priced and since you only use a few drops it lasts quite some time....
Good idea to get another evaluation with your Vet,perhaps he might even prescribe something else ,gabapentin doesn't necessarily work well for all cats,just like us they are all different

 

[labstuff444]

My question is now, how long is it normal to expect it to take? They can be fine seeing each other through the crate, even playing together like that a bit. Even loose together, they're good for about 5-10 minutes, but then one of them either starts the staring or back arching, OR my bigger (and currently jumpier) cat goes after the other pretty aggressively.

But what's even worse, is they are NOT LETTING ME SLEEP and I'm literally about to lose my mind and sanity.
I only have a one bedroom apartment so I rotate who is in the living room and who is in the room with me. I really do make the time split pretty equal.
But no matter what, the one that is NOT in the room with me screams relentlessly and scratches the door. I am at my wits end. I'm so stressed.
I'm ordering some cbd to try with them (after clearing wether or not it's safe with the gabapentin through the vet). And in the morning I am calling to set up a consult with a behavioral specialist vet, that I already definitely cannot afford.

I would be so beyond devastated to give either of them up. And it's probably too soon to be assuming the worst, but its starting to feel like the 3 of us live in a prison with no light at the end.
I could never forgive myself if I trusted them too early and one or both of them ended up hurt or more traumatized by the other.

 

[Alldara]

It can take a few weeks. I've always done my reintroducings fairly quickly.

Aggression Between Cats in Your Household.

Basically, I put the offending cat in a room for a few hours to chill out and then give treats and such. While allowing the others back in. Play cat calming music the whole time (with purring), have some feliway plugged in and just tell them it's okay.

You've got the film up. You can try some coffee grounds outside your windows. I've had it work with varrying success...you always have to redo after the rain.

You can also rub a dry cloth on both of them and then around the bottoms of the walls and each other. Or a shirt you wore for the day. Build that family scent up.

Clip everyone's claws for safety and try just relaxing in your room for an evening altogether. Keep lots of high reward treats and a couple distractions like a toy that crinkles just to break that stare. Before this, play with each cat to get some energy out and then you'll know more about how you'll feel about being out again.

Don't be afraid to narrate to your cats using familiar words. "Wow, X is sniffing." "oh, Y is playing. Good cat Y." It sounds silly but you build those familiar words and you can communicate well with your cats and help them to know what's going on. It keeps them calmer.

*** Just a little story for the power of speech with your cats.
Because of my late cat, Nobel, Magnus began to be afraid of stranger cats. My neighbours have some cats who get let out. One used to chill on the porch and my boys were comfortable with him. Then another cat thought he could do that. Nobel hissed, growled and swatted at Magnus. No blood or fur but it was scary to Mags.

Then, whenever Magnus saw 'stranger cat' or 'friend cat' he could growl and hiss. He was so scared he wanted to make the cat go away before Nobel would get mad again.

So when I would hear him, I would come down, look and talk to him about stranger cat and friend cat. (I also talked to me neighbours. I was lucky and they were good about it. Next door, she always leads friend cat back to his place with a toy, but they can see each other through the fence in our enclosed patios. So it's important they don't get reactive to each other's sight and smell). Stranger cat is now also kept on a leash for his transgressions of crossing the parking lot.

So I just talk, "Oh wow. Magnus, friend cat is play. He plays outside now. He doesn't come in Magnus house. Magnus safe in Magnus house." If he's still agitated, we block the window or door, whatever he's looking out of.

Now it's fine and they can be each in their own yards at the same time. Though, we prefer to only let them out at separate times. I'll bring Magnus in or vice versa. He comes to sit on our porch sometimes again and enjoy each other's company. Magnus might still growl if friend cat tries to peek inside.