Does Feeding Raw Really Save Money?

[sabrinah]

The directions on the packet call for .8oz of liver per packet of Alnutrin. I'd be worried that doubling it could lead to Vit A toxicity. Is that not the case?

That's a great question! In Dr. Pierson's recipe, it's recommended to use 3-4 ounces per 3 pounds of meat. Using 1.6 ounces in one pound is too high of a ratio based on her recipe. I'm also curious about adding in hearts sometimes, or perhaps seeing if she'll just munch on them. Dr. Pierson considers them the same as muscle meat since they have so little taurine. They're about the same price as liver so I don't think it would hurt to include them sometimes? I actually think the package may have been a mix of hearts and gizzards but I don't remember.

 

[sophie1]

Dr. Pierson's recipe calls for 4 oz liver per 3 pounds (48 oz) of meat, which is 8.3%. And it's actually a bit higher, since of those 3 pounds she throws away several ounces of bone. This is in line with the "80/10/10" guideline for meat, bones, and organ.

The amount of vitamin A in chicken liver is low enough that it's impossible to feed your cat enough to get a toxic dose. This isn't true of other poultry livers especially turkey, but 10% of any liver is plenty safe. I don't remember exact numbers but I did look it up at one point to be sure. You can check for yourself in the USDA database and the AAFCO nutritional guidelines.

You don't want to get too creative with the basic recipe, but it's not a ball and chain. Fresh giblets are cheap, delectable to cats, and very nutritious. Just keep it to the ballpark of 15% of total intake, or 1-2 meals per week if feeding twice a day. Or, start a batch with a bag of fresh giblets and add enough chicken to get to the right proportion.

 

[sabrinah]

Ok so I should double the amount of liver the Alnutrin recipe calls for. Thank you!

I'm mainly interested in the other organs as treats, likely no more than one once a week. I would really like to have something extra yummy to accompany something not super fun, like a vet appointment or draining her impacted salivary ducts if I get brave enough to do it myself.

 

[sabrinah]

Whelp she's not a fan of egg yolk. She refused to try it until I crushed up some Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw in it, but even then she barely ate half of the tiny amount I gave her. I know it's not because she's not hungry since it's nearly her dinner time.
I sent the request for samples of Alnutrin. Hopefully, it's not too eggy tasting to her. I'm not quite sure what I'll do if she downright refuses to eat anything with egg yolk in it. I imagine if I mix my own supplements there's something I can add to make up for the egg yolk? Or maybe some kind of kitty crack organ that'll overpower the taste?

 

[Ardina]

Whelp she's not a fan of egg yolk. She refused to try it until I crushed up some Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw in it, but even then she barely ate half of the tiny amount I gave her. I know it's not because she's not hungry since it's nearly her dinner time.
I sent the request for samples of Alnutrin. Hopefully, it's not too eggy tasting to her. I'm not quite sure what I'll do if she downright refuses to eat anything with egg yolk in it. I imagine if I mix my own supplements there's something I can add to make up for the egg yolk? Or maybe some kind of kitty crack organ that'll overpower the taste?

Both of my cats hate the taste of organs, which seems like it would be quite problematic for feeding raw! But mix it into enough muscle meat, and they don't even notice. I'm guessing it'll be the same for your cat and egg yolks.

 

[abby2932]

Whelp she's not a fan of egg yolk. She refused to try it until I crushed up some Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw in it, but even then she barely ate half of the tiny amount I gave her. I know it's not because she's not hungry since it's nearly her dinner time.
I sent the request for samples of Alnutrin. Hopefully, it's not too eggy tasting to her. I'm not quite sure what I'll do if she downright refuses to eat anything with egg yolk in it. I imagine if I mix my own supplements there's something I can add to make up for the egg yolk? Or maybe some kind of kitty crack organ that'll overpower the taste?

It's such a small amount of Alnutrin powder compared to the amount of meat. It will barely be noticeable.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Would she still get benefits from raw even if it wasn't half her diet? All raw is just too expensive and even though half raw is only a little over what I spend now I may not be able to handle even that slight price increase. I really want her to get at least some of the benefits of raw though. Could feeding it a few times a week still be worth it?

Raw saves us a ton of money compared to kibble, but we work with other sources and take on stuff they have an overflow of or can't sell because it was incorrectly cut, etc. I loosely added up what we would spend on raw if we went the premade or pre mix route and it was out of this world, completely un-affordable.
(My only advice to potential raw feeders is do not think every piece of food served has to be "premium cuts", 90% lean bison and organic duck are really nice but it's totally unneccesary for healthy cats.)
I saw a guy on you tube a year or so ago (can't remember his name) that fed his cats a premium commercial diet and once or twice a week, fed chunks of boneless meat soaked in either fish or coconut oil strictly for their dental health.
Another (perhaps cheaper) option would be feeding chicken hearts and/or gizzards. Hearts contain a LOT of taurine, essential for cats and gizzards are chewy and kind of tough. Assuming there are no dental problems that would make a chew here or there an issue, it might be something to look at.
(Also, gizzards and hearts aren't technically organs; they're muscle meat!)

 

[1 bruce 1]

Well for cryin’ out loud! I wasn’t done, and Lily walked across my tablet with her big kitty feet and posted before I was ready! Plus, she typed that ‘Q’ first. Kitties.

What I was going to add is that there may be some good news for you here. By feeding raw, you’re going to be feeding more protein, low carbs and higher quality, and your girl might not develop diabetes. Talk about expensive. My little old man, Max, was diagnosed with diabetes at age 16, and insulin costs a fortune. I didn’t know about feeding raw, which can help control the disease and in some cases, may mean you don’t have to give insulin at all. I didn’t, and he got two shots daily for four years until I lost him last summer at age 20. I was paying almost $90 every 1 1/2 to 2 months for insulin.

*LOL* Lily posting and adding a "Q" xD

Lots of cats IME have reversed their diabetes by eating more water-content food (canned or raw, less kibble), dogs unfortunately don't seem to have the same luck and sometimes their insulin requirements decrease but rarely is it reversed.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Whelp she's not a fan of egg yolk. She refused to try it until I crushed up some Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw in it, but even then she barely ate half of the tiny amount I gave her. I know it's not because she's not hungry since it's nearly her dinner time.
I sent the request for samples of Alnutrin. Hopefully, it's not too eggy tasting to her. I'm not quite sure what I'll do if she downright refuses to eat anything with egg yolk in it. I imagine if I mix my own supplements there's something I can add to make up for the egg yolk? Or maybe some kind of kitty crack organ that'll overpower the taste?

I wouldn't be too nervous yet; one or two egg yolks mixed into a big batch of food might not turn her off, kind of like a bit of liquid medicine in our favorite drink goes down easier than the medicine itself alone =)
It might be a texture thing, too, egg yolks are runny and weird compared meat, once mixed it shouldn't pose an issue.
My cats aren't normally egg heads (well, sometimes..<g>), meaning if I drop them a little piece of egg they'll usually give it a lick or something and hesitate long enough for one of the vacuum hog dogs to snarf it down...but if I mix egg in a grind, they suck it down like their mouths have their own gravitational pull!

 

[1 bruce 1]

She doesn't get constipated, she's always been regular and it was a topic discussed with the vet. Every vet she's seen has agreed constipation is not an issue. It was the first thing they checked anytime I brought her in for her anal glands. It's also always been very firm. I can definitely confirm it since she poops herself anytime she's put in her carrier and I have to pull over and clean it up with a napkin. So very firm. She grunts every time she poops. I really wish she would stop pooping herself. All the research I read, on both cats and dogs, concluded that the, for lack of a better term, the girth of the poop is most important in emptying the sacs because the widening physically pushes it out, even when starting to get impacted. If she gets impacted at all, even if its just from having an upset stomach for 2 days because she stole something from my plate, it very, very quickly turns into an infection. It's just not something I'm willing to risk for any amount of time. I'll try the psyllium husks when I make the food but, since it doesn't sound like the fiber throws off the actual recipe, it'll be staying until I'm absolutely positive there won't be any build up at all.

It's a shot in the dark, but it's possible her sacs are situated "differently" than others (maybe spaced out too wide, or don't sit high enough or low enough, etc.) so the issue is more structural than it is food related. I could be (probably am) wrong, but it's a thought!
It sounds dumb but our boy with IBD has gotten diarrhea leading to constipation leading to diarrhea, etc., and his glands were impacted badly during this time. Canned pumpkin works for dogs with these problems and he likes pumpkin, and it seemed to help during the worst of his times.

 

[sabrinah]

Both of my cats hate the taste of organs, which seems like it would be quite problematic for feeding raw! But mix it into enough muscle meat, and they don't even notice. I'm guessing it'll be the same for your cat and egg yolks.

It's such a small amount of Alnutrin powder compared to the amount of meat. It will barely be noticeable.

I'm sure you guys are right. I just want this to work so badly I'm stressing over every little thing.

Another (perhaps cheaper) option would be feeding chicken hearts and/or gizzards. Hearts contain a LOT of taurine, essential for cats and gizzards are chewy and kind of tough. Assuming there are no dental problems that would make a chew here or there an issue, it might be something to look at.
(Also, gizzards and hearts aren't technically organs; they're muscle meat!)

Which things count as muscle meats and which as organs is getting confusing! So gizzards and hearts are muscle meats and liver is organs? Are there other organ options too (in addition to the liver of course)? She's had a few teeth removed and will probably have more removed at some point, so her chewing ability isn't the best. I plan on trying to give her some hearts to chew on but it might not go well, in which case I'll grind it up and add it to the other meats.

It sounds dumb but our boy with IBD has gotten diarrhea leading to constipation leading to diarrhea, etc., and his glands were impacted badly during this time. Canned pumpkin works for dogs with these problems and he likes pumpkin, and it seemed to help during the worst of his times.

My dog gets impacted just as regularly as my cat, and I solved his issue with switching to another flavor within his food brand that has higher fiber. It gets the job done unless a family member decides to sneak him food that doesn't quite agree with him. For my cat, I add a dry mix of pumpkin and apple fiber that's a good price on Amazon. It works amazingly for her and is very affordable. As much as I would love to use something like Glandex it's just too dang expensive!

She has a vet appointment Tuesday next week for her bloodwork. I had originally made it for this week but they called to reschedule it because the times available this week were too late to send out the sample for testing and it needed to be sent the same day. I'm starting to wonder if she's getting a bit too thin. She has a more defined waist and I can feel her spine but not her ribs at all.

I ordered a digital scale on a lightning deal yesterday (yay!) and am currently debating meat grinders. I can't afford the expensive ones and I'm not grinding my own bone so a hand crank one will do the job, but I don't want a piece of junk that will fall apart after a couple of months.

 

[abby2932]

I'm sure you guys are right. I just want this to work so badly I'm stressing over every little thing.

Which things count as muscle meats and which as organs is getting confusing! So gizzards and hearts are muscle meats and liver is organs? Are there other organ options too (in addition to the liver of course)? She's had a few teeth removed and will probably have more removed at some point, so her chewing ability isn't the best. I plan on trying to give her some hearts to chew on but it might not go well, in which case I'll grind it up and add it to the other meats.

Organs = Liver (must be ~5% of the diet), kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, thymus, testicles, ovaries)

Muscle meat = muscle, fat, heart, gizzards, lung, tongue, uterus, pizzle, green tripe, trachea, gullets, tendons

 

[sabrinah]

Organs = Liver (must be ~5% of the diet), kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, thymus, testicles, ovaries)

Muscle meat = muscle, fat, heart, gizzards, lung, tongue, uterus, pizzle, green tripe, trachea, gullets, tendons

Thank you so much!
You all are truly amazing! I don't know what I would do without this site!

 

[1 bruce 1]

Organs = Liver (must be ~5% of the diet), kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, thymus, testicles, ovaries)

Muscle meat = muscle, fat, heart, gizzards, lung, tongue, uterus, pizzle, green tripe, trachea, gullets, tendons

Exactly! Good rule of thumb is true organs = secreting organs, where as muscle meats may "act" like organs but they don't secrete much =)

We feed hearts, gizzards, lung, and trachea as "meat" a lot. True muscle meat that's packed with nutrition, and is usually way cheaper than muscle meat but just as "clean" and good, if not better!
I wouldn't get too worried if you're just dabbling here and there but I've read gullet and trachea should be fed in moderation (to cats) due to the thyroid gland sitting so close to these place, and hyperthyroid is more common in cats than dogs so it's good to not "overfeed" this to cats. I err on the side of caution and feed the cats very little.
Kind of a cool video on a rescue that houses 100+ big cats and their feeding schedule and classes for interns on feeding. Makes me stop complaining on the time and cost in feeding my littles, LOL!!!

 

[maureen brad]

EZ complete is quite a bit more expensive considering it costs $15 more and makes far less. If I feed a pound per week it will cost me around $12 a month just for the supplement. I do plan on eventually mixing my own supplements but only if raw works out really well. I don't suppose EZ complete ever has sales?
Thank you for the link to the meat grinder! I'll definitely take a look at it.
Is it usually ok to get meats from butcher shops? I live in a farming area now and I've seen a fair number of butcher shops that claim to sell locally produced meats. It seems like everyone has some kind of livestock or another.

If you buy three bags on EZ complete they give you a fourth for free. I love EZ complete and so do my cats.Raw does cost me far less than premium canned but, I still spend about $50 per cat a month. I have 3 cats.

 

[sabrinah]

@1 bruce 1 That video was crazy. And to think I'm stressing about feeding one 12 pound cat...

If you buy three bags on EZ complete they give you a fourth for free. I love EZ complete and so do my cats.Raw does cost me far less than premium canned but, I still spend about $50 per cat a month. I have 3 cats.

I'm sure EZ Complete is wonderful but I can't afford to spend more than $30 a month. It's a bit out of the budget.

 

[sabrinah]

I'm debating between 3 meat grinders. If anyone has a minute to take a look at them opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tobermory]

@1 bruce 1 That video was crazy. And to think I'm stressing about feeding one 12 pound cat...


I'm sure EZ Complete is wonderful but I can't afford to spend more than $30 a month. It's a bit out of the budget.

I spend about $25 a month per cat using chicken thighs and my own supplements. I do splurge on EZComplete sometimes because my cats love it.

I can’t help on the grinders. My usual strategy is to look first for online reviews (non Amazon) and then read through the comments on Amazon on the ones that seem to get good ratings on other sites. One thing that occurs to me is how well you could secure the grinder to the counter while you turn the crank. Also, how easy is it to take apart and clean. I used my food processor before I bought the grinder. It worked, just took longer.

 

[maureen brad]

@1 bruce 1 That video was crazy. And to think I'm stressing about feeding one 12 pound cat...


I'm sure EZ Complete is wonderful but I can't afford to spend more than $30 a month. It's a bit out of the budget.

I understand, you can also add egg shell calcium , I cook them and use a small coffee bean grinder to turn them into powder.I think you add 1 tsp per lbs.. I switched to EZ because I can afford it.I feed mostly bone in and buying a large bag of EZ it lasts quite awhile, at least 3 months.Makes it seem much less expensive.

 

[sabrinah]

Thank you all for your help and input!

Her vet appointment is tomorrow so within a few days I should have an idea about specific diet goals, perhaps I'll have to tailor it to a particular health problem, though I hope she'll turn out perfectly healthy. It's odd, but eating Instinct dry food actually makes her coat very rough. One would think the more expensive stuff should make it softer, but not in her case. Her coat is far better on Blue Wilderness. She still has a fair amount of Instinct to work through and then it's on to American Journey. I hope she likes it since I bought a 12lb bag of chicken and a 5 lb bag of duck... I couldn't help it since it was 50% first bag! I also bought the Ameican Journey Salmon Oil since it was 50% off too so I could get her used to it. She wasn't thrilled but she's gotten over it and will eat without much more than a dirty look,

I tried giving her heart and gizzard today since they were on sale. It was a solid no from her. It'll end up getting ground up whenever I actually buy a grinder. Pork went on sale for $2/lb and didn't seem to have any additives, so it'll end up in the rotation if she likes it. What she eats will more than likely be determined by what's on sale the vast majority of the time. Chicken breast is always on sale more than thighs, but I understand breasts are a bit too lean. What if I mix breasts and thighs? Or even breasts and pork, since those were on sale at the same time? Since she'll still be getting dry to graze on she'll be getting some additional fat from that.