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Do you believe in De-clawing?
- Thread starter just1cat
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For Smokie - I have owned two declawed cats in my life (I didn't have it done, they came that way). One had no problem. The other one would not use litter box at all.
This is the clause in my contract about declawing:
8. Buyer agrees that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will this cat be “de-clawed” or undergo any procedure to remove or disable the claws unless medically necessary and is vital to this cat's health. Buyer further agrees to provide adequate scratching posts, training, and regular nail trimming for this cat. If this cat is ever found to be de-clawed, Breeder will pursue damages in a court of law against Buyer for the sum of $1000.00 for each paw that has been de-clawed. In addition Buyer forfeits any and all remaining health guarantees.
This is the clause in my contract about declawing:
8. Buyer agrees that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will this cat be “de-clawed” or undergo any procedure to remove or disable the claws unless medically necessary and is vital to this cat's health. Buyer further agrees to provide adequate scratching posts, training, and regular nail trimming for this cat. If this cat is ever found to be de-clawed, Breeder will pursue damages in a court of law against Buyer for the sum of $1000.00 for each paw that has been de-clawed. In addition Buyer forfeits any and all remaining health guarantees.
I can talk until I'm blue in the face about being a pro-active owner, but 90% of those people will turn around and want a declaw as soon as their couch starts to become shredded. Then the cat is 18 months old and the pain of recovery is 10 times worse.
2 GOOD owners for every bad one I turn away?? Could it really be true?? I'm not going to hold my breath, and I'm just going to do the best I can. Its MY CHOICE and I've gone through a lot to come to the decisions I have. My first cats were not decalwed because I believed all the propaganda and believed it. I was horrified when I was required to perform the procedure as part of my training, and was shocked when my kitten was fine the next morning. Since that day, I've read the research and PERFORMED THE PROCEDURE! I wrap those toes, give the pain meds, clean the paws, see them during the most important parts of recovery, and I see them when they come back. I have more personal experience than anyone here, and I say the procedure is NOT inhumane when performed properly, by an experienced surgeon, on a young animal.
So instead of telling me I'm going to be a bad vet, how about you show me some hard core research?? My experience tells me something different than your experience... so lets see some hard core FACTS to settle this.
I firmly, firmly believe the majority of declaws are pushed so they make money for the vet clinic. I've seen it myself.
no no no
Miss You said:
"I can talk until I'm blue in the face about being a pro-active owner, but 90% of those people will turn around and want a declaw as soon as their couch starts to become shredded. Then the cat is 18 months old and the pain of recovery is 10 times worse."
This is a result of unexperienced/uneducated pet owners.
As a vet, your first priority is to your patient (The Cat). The owners are second. It's hard to balance that since the owners are paying the bill. But in this regard, there are many ways to treat inappropriate behavior before declawing. Pet buyers need to know what they are getting into when buying an animal and be responsible with that animal. Vets can be very effective in giving that message.
"I can talk until I'm blue in the face about being a pro-active owner, but 90% of those people will turn around and want a declaw as soon as their couch starts to become shredded. Then the cat is 18 months old and the pain of recovery is 10 times worse."
This is a result of unexperienced/uneducated pet owners.
As a vet, your first priority is to your patient (The Cat). The owners are second. It's hard to balance that since the owners are paying the bill. But in this regard, there are many ways to treat inappropriate behavior before declawing. Pet buyers need to know what they are getting into when buying an animal and be responsible with that animal. Vets can be very effective in giving that message.
If all vets cared about was money, we'd be dentists, chiropractors, MD's, pharmacists, or just about any other medical professional you can name. They ALL make more money.
Here's some scientific research for you:
From the University of Washington, a teaching university, where poorly trained surgeons perform surgeries to better their skills. Due to the skill of the surgeon, these surgeries take longer, have poorer results, and higher rates of infection. This is a study in worst-case scenarios, and yet I still find it worthwhile evidence. The complication rate was higher in animals that were de-clawed using the guillotine method, and higher still when tissue glue was used for closure. Re-growth and P2 protrusion should not occur when a skilled and meticulous surgeon performs the surgery. The postoperative complication rate can be compared to the complication rate of feline ovariohysterectomy (spay) of 12.2%. Postoperative complications of elective surgeries in dogs and cats determined by examining electronic and paper medical records.
I was unable to find any information on long-term behavior changes, so scientific evidence would be welcomed if anyone has any sources. I'll keep looking too...
What databases do vets use for research? I was searching on Pubmed and was very surprised at how few articles there were on declawing/onychectomy, period. Has it been adequetely researched?
Again, you misunderstand my occupation... my committment is to people first, and performed through the service of animals.
I give you the veterinary oath:
The Veterinary Oath\t
Being admitted to the profession of veterinary medicine, I solemnly swear to use my scientific knowledge and skills for the benefit of society through the protection of animal health, the relief of animal suffering, the conservation of livestock resources, the promotion of public health, and the advancement of medical knowledge.
I will practice my profession conscientiously, with dignity and in keeping with the principles of veterinary ethics.
I accept as a lifelong obligation the continual improvement of my professional knowledge and competence
The AVMA position on declaw procedures: it does not alter behavior, it is un-necessary and education is important, but can be performed when it is believed that the animal may lose its home.
It is my PERSONAL opinion that cats are better declawed at a young age, and therefore will educate clients first, but will not refuse the procedure when requested to prevent being forced to declaw older cats.
We use pubmed as well... most articles in the veterinary journals do not have abstracts available, so there is very little reading material. I would say onychectomy and surgical complications are among the few well-researched topics second only to rabies and foreign animal diseases. Research is easily funded when there is contoversy and public interest, not to mention its a topic that veterinarians are also passionate about.
I dont believe in declawing unless there is a medical reason.
The lack of empirical evidence that declawing alters behavior doesn't mean that it it is certain that it does not. Sounds like there has been research comparing a declawed group to a control group, but I wonder about how the study was conducted. Were cat owners of declawed and not-declawed reporting on the cats' post-declaw behavior? If so, people who were in the declaw group are already in favor of the procedure, so there is bias there, which could unintentionally skew the results. I have searched on several databases and I can't find any empirical study that speaks on long term behavioral changes one way or another, so I can't tell how controlled the studies were.
Not trying to battle...it's just that if there is one thing I've learned as a researcher...it's how freaking bad most of the research is (mainly based on practical limitations, not incompetence)! I have no idea whether there are long-term behavioral consequences or not..... and I don't doubt that you are a responsible vet in the way you try to educate your clients and the way you've obviously thought your position through based on the available evidence.
Not trying to battle...it's just that if there is one thing I've learned as a researcher...it's how freaking bad most of the research is (mainly based on practical limitations, not incompetence)! I have no idea whether there are long-term behavioral consequences or not..... and I don't doubt that you are a responsible vet in the way you try to educate your clients and the way you've obviously thought your position through based on the available evidence.
If only the US would catch up with the rest of the world.... If all the other countries in the world deem declawing inhumane and cruel, doesn't that mean anything? Can't the US step up already and outlaw it? Everyday I find new reasons to move out of the US.
Well this thread has really gotten interesting. I see there is only one person in favor for the procedure.
Lets look at it differently, My kids bite, should I have all their teeth pulled to prevent that??? They also pinch, should I remove their fingers?? I think not.
I understand that as a vet, it is your duty to declaw! Thats your job. Just dont expect me to like it! I love the fact that you help animals, and I really dont think there are any long term behavioral differences. BooBoo is fine now, it was the recovery that sucked big time! I think the recovery is way too hard on a cat, since its unnecessary in more cases! Not all vets make sure that they have proper pain control, and Ive never heard of my vet having a cat come back after a declaw for a checkup to make sure everythings alright. When BooBoo was declawed, I had to go back and ask for pain meds because he was in so much pain!
Lets look at it differently, My kids bite, should I have all their teeth pulled to prevent that??? They also pinch, should I remove their fingers?? I think not.
I understand that as a vet, it is your duty to declaw! Thats your job. Just dont expect me to like it! I love the fact that you help animals, and I really dont think there are any long term behavioral differences. BooBoo is fine now, it was the recovery that sucked big time! I think the recovery is way too hard on a cat, since its unnecessary in more cases! Not all vets make sure that they have proper pain control, and Ive never heard of my vet having a cat come back after a declaw for a checkup to make sure everythings alright. When BooBoo was declawed, I had to go back and ask for pain meds because he was in so much pain!
Ya know, while we're on the subject of declawing, my vet was trying to talk me into it the other day and he said the only way he does it now is by laser??? Is this just as hard on them as the old way?? (I dont know how BooBoo got it done, but it was 7 years ago, so whatever they did back then) I was just kind of curious on the matter! Not that I would do it again, even though I love the way BooBoos paws feel when he's pretending to scratch me! LOL
Just to respond to the person on page 5 regarding spaying, I took on a 14yo unspayed female who sadly did have mammary cancer, and had to be pts as operating on her wasn't an option - her liver and kidney levels were perfect for her age though. And when I did research, it was one of the most common cancers. I have also read on here of cats with pyometra, which is again caused by being unspayed, and cats with cysts on their ovaries when they have been spayed later in life, although from what I can remember, no tests done to see if they were benign or cancerous. Added to the fact that it must be very frustrating to have all these hormones and not get a release, then yes, spaying does have major health benefits and could save your pets life. I can't say the same for declawing, as it isn't an option in the UK, we just deal with our cats having claws, and I trim all my cats claws so they dont hurt as much when they are kneading me.
When I got kittens a vet tech asked if I was going to declaw them and I said no. She was a little supprised, but the vet said, "Oh no, she works with a rescue group she would never declaw her cats." I did not mind being asked and when I said no it was accepted. There is one vet in the practice that I refuse to see because when I took Isaac to be neutered he tried to talk me into declawing him. I said no I would not declaw him and he proceeded to tell me how they had good pain control methods. I simply replied no I do not believe in declawing. He said, "Well if it ever becomes a problem..." I stoped him and said, "I have no problems with the other two, there will be no problem with him." This made me angry. I was checking Isaac in with him, but knew the other vet who knew me would be operating on him or I might have walked back out with him. That is the only vet out of the 5, that are in that practice, that has ever said anything about me not declawing. I think it is OK if the vet asks, but they should not try to sway the owner towards declawing. Like I said, I now refuse to take any of my cats to that vet.
Wow, I know a lot of colleagues that declaw, and many who don't, but I don't know of a single one who actually PUSHES for declaws... wonder what happened to make him feel that strongly?
this paragraph right here says it all: 50% of cats developed immediate post-operative complications?! almost 20% developed complications later?! There is no way on earth I would ever subject my cats to this
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