Do hormone tests for cats exist besides for pregnancies? Plus more questions...

[sylvie000]

This is a very long story that I have posted about before, so I will have to omit a lot of details to keep this short.

Pretty much 8ish months ago I tried to get my outdoor cat (not my house, not my rules) spayed but the person on the phone wouldn't let me schedule an appointment to do it. By the time the vet finally let me schedule an appointment, my cat was supposedly 4 weeks pregnant and I didnt want to do a spay abort that late into it. I decided to wait it out and spay her after. However, she never gave birth and the vet said it was either a false pregnancy or miscarriage.

Anyways, during that time that she was 'pregnant' she suddenly became extremely aggressive towards all of my other cats and dogs (these are big dogs). Previously, she had always been the most friendly, extroverted cat in the world. She loved everyone and everything and was a very boisterous, excited, happy cat. But almost overnight she had become extremely aggressive towards everyone except for humans. She was still extremely loving and cuddly towards humans. I had her checked at the vet before getting spayed and they said the spay will likely help balance out her hormones and help her return back to her happy self.

Except it didn't change anything after she was spayed. So I went back to the vet many times (my regular vet as well as a cat only vet I found) and they ran some blood tests and urine tests and nothing is out of the ordinary. A physical exam also shows she is perfectly healthy and not in pain. So because she supposedly isn't sick or in pain, this is what we/I have tired so far (some stuff the vet recommended, some stuff I experimented with myself):
- gabapentin (did not affect her at all)
- zylkene (made her aggression worse)
- feliway spray in the eating area (did not affect her at all)
- calming collar (did not affect her at all)
- cbd oil for cats (made her more relaxed but also more happy to be aggressive)
- changing her diet (did not affect her)
- simply waiting to see if her hormones needed time to settle (did not change anything)
- and now, the vet prescribed clomicalm

Over time, she has only been getting more aggressive to the other cats and she even scratched my mom for no reason, which is extremely unusual (I really mean no reason, my mom was simply sitting down and she came over to her and then scratched my moms hand when she reached out). She also growls now when I pick her up which she used to never ever do. She used to never leave the property ever too (we have a few acres) but lately she has started disappearing for half a day, once even for 2 days straight, which is highly unusual. I think she is just getting too fed up with all the other animals and doesnt want to be around them anymore. She has been on clomicalm for about 3 weeks now and so far it has not helped at all. I know it can take up to 2 months for it to take effect though so I am still holding out hope. But ever since she had started the clomicalm, she has started disappearing almost every day (she used to follow me around all the time any time I was outside. She was like a little shadow to me but now she is gone all the time). She doesnt want to come eat anymore either, and she never purrs when I pet her anymore (she used to purr all the time). I am worried that the clomicalm is making things worse, but I dont know if this is just a temporary side effect still. And as a side note, I cannot bring her inside to isolate her because its not my house and I am absolutely forbidden from bringing any of the cats inside, not even to my bedroom.

Anyways, I am very worried for her but also I am pretty sure that this is a hormonal problem. The issue started when during a 'pregnancy went wrong' situation and has never resolved. It's perfectly normal in humans to check out hormone levels and that is often the issue with humans, so I asked my vet to do some hormone tests but she said those tests dont exist for cats unless they are pregnant and are doing tests to check on the unborn kittens. She said there are no tests to just check out other stuff like testosterone or estrogen etc levels in a cat.

So I am wondering if that is actually true. I have a very strong feeling, that my medically educated friends have also agreed with, that at the root this is a hormonal problem (possibly a brain problem, but less likely). So is it really true that there is no way for me to test her hormone levels and sort that out? I feel like medicating her is wrong when there could literally be a solution with some more tests. And I am also worried the medication wont even work.

I am considering that if absolutely nothing works, I could build her a catio, but I really really would hate to do this. She has a looot of energy. Out of all of 5 cats, she is the most energetic from all and absolutely loves running around and climbing trees all the time. She normally always follows me around everywhere I go and if I confine her to a catio, she will never get to do any of the activities that she loves so much. I also will not rehome her because my pets are for life and I will do whatever I need to accommodate her until I move into my own house and can keep her inside away from the other cats.

I am just feeling so discouraged here that I am dealing with mystery aggression that the vets cant figure out, and that all the treatments ive tried so far have not helped. If clomicalm doesnt help, the vet said we can try prozac. But Im just getting worried, what if that doesnt help either? And I am worried about her now always dissapearing and not wanting to even be with me anymore. It's like she now hates everyone and everything. She used the be the most friendly cat in the world, she loved playing with and cuddling with my other cats, enjoyed everyones company, and was a constant little shadow by my side whenver I was outside. Now she turned into a completely different cat for no explainable reason.

So in the end, are there actually any hormone tests I could do for her elsewhere?
And does anyone have any other ideas for what could be going on or what I could do to help her?

 

[FeebysOwner]

HI. I am pretty sure there is testing available. There are cases I have read about and seen on this site whereby there was speculation that ovarian tissue was left behind during spaying.

Maybe this article will give you enough information to question your vet about testing.
Feline Reproductive Function Tests | Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine

 

[fionasmom]

Exploratory respay incision
Brand new thread which may add some light to your situation

 

[sylvie000]

HI. I am pretty sure there is testing available. There are cases I have read about and seen on this site whereby there was speculation that ovarian tissue was left behind during spaying.

Maybe this article will give you enough information to question your vet about testing.
Feline Reproductive Function Tests | Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine

I don’t think it’s ovarian remnant syndrome, for two reasons. One is that her aggression started before she was spayed, and the second is that she was spayed 6 months ago and she doesn’t have the symptoms of having ovarian remnant tissue.

do you have any idea where I can get hormone testing done for her? My regular vet wouldn’t even do regular blood testing for her when I asked, so I doubt they will have it. The cat only vet said they don’t do it. It’s a bit frustrating because I feel like I’ve been the one telling the vet what to do, pretty much all they have said is that everything looks fine, and I’m the one asking for blood tests, urinalysis, hormone testing, I did consider X-rays but I don’t think those will be helpful in this case. I even asked to maybe do an mri in case it’s a brain issue and she was just like yeah sure let me know if you want to do it. So I’m just not sure what to do because I’m not a vet and I don’t know what type of tests need to be done, but my vet just said nothing can be done except medication, so I’m just lost on what I can do next or how to find someone who can do hormone testing as well as interpret the results for me.

 

[FeebysOwner]

do you have any idea where I can get hormone testing done for her?

Not sure where you are located - that would make a big difference in determining who might be able to do the testing. In your area, I would look for specialty vets, either internal med, endocrinology, or reproductive groups. The article I gave you lists the types of tests that are offered, so you could call around and ask which groups offer those tests. If you explain the circumstances, one of these groups might have some ideas for other applicable testing as well.

 

[fionasmom]

You may need to approach the larger veterinary centers like Cornell, as FeebysOwner mentioned, UC Davis or other major vet schools. One caution is that in many cases "hormone" testing for cats will mean thyroid testing, so specify what you are looking for. The standard hormone testing will be ovarian remnant, ovulation, or related tests. However, I would try to call Cornell or Davis and see if they can give you any further information.

If you are not close to any major vet school, it is possible for a vet to send samples in certain cases. I did special testing for a dog with hypothyroidism which was sent out by my vet who did not do the test. If you can find any specialty referral centers nearby, it might be a little easier.

 

[sylvie000]

Thank you so much for this fionasmom FeebysOwner

The only vet school I can find near me is the University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine. Would it be worth contacting them?

I also found a vet that does internal medicine - Welcome to Pet Doctors of America | Vets in Jacksonville, FL
Their website says they look at reproductive issues as well as endocrinology. Would this be a good vet for me to go to?

If either of these are a good choice, would you guys recommend I go now, or should I wait another month to see how my cat does on clomicalm? Its been 3 weeks, so far no improvement and shes only gotten more distant from me. I have unfortunately had to start keeping her in a dog crate 24/7 because any time I let her out now, she leaves and disappears for over 24 hours, which is throwing off the medication schedule because she wont show up for meals consistently. I might try to sneak her into my bedroom during the day, maybe at night too if she wont be disturbing me, but that might prove difficult since I have pet birds in my bedroom, and if my dad found out I brought her inside he would be mad.
I know that the medication can cause temporary side effects during the beginning, and can take up to 2 months to truly get the good effects to start showing. So I dont know if the clomicalm is truly affecting her negatively or if its just temporary. So I guess I don't know if I should ditch the medication and go to another vet now, keep using the medication and go to another vet, or keep using the medication for another month before going to another vet. Anyone have an input or thoughts on what I should do?

 

[FeebysOwner]

I would continue with the clomicalm and start pursuing an appt. with an internal med specialist. It can take some time to get an appt scheduled. And some internal med specialists want referrals from the cat's regular vet, so you will need to check into that as well - just call them and ask. If you need a referral, you may have to find another vet if your current one is not willing to accommodate that. Look into the 'rating' of this internal med group, just so you know how other people who have used them feel about their operation/care.

You might talk to your dad about what is going and see if under the circumstances he will let you bring her inside - at least temporarily as you work through this. Being in a crate is less than ideal. If your birds are in cages, can their cages be elevated so that your cat wouldn't be able to reach them? Being in a crate in your room is still better than outside, and you could let her out for periods of time under your supervision.

 

[sylvie000]

Okay I'll do that then with the vet. They seem to have very good reviews.

As for talking to my dad, that won't work because I already tried last year when I had a different issue with another cat and wanted to bring her inside for her safety, but my dad wouldn't budge and just got super mad and told me to never ask again. So talking to him is not a possibility. My birds are in large cages so its impossible to place them out of reach or move them to another room. I am probably going to try taking my cat inside when my dad isnt home and see how she behaves around the birds. If she leaves them alone, then I'll keep keep her in my room when my dad isn't home and whenever I can be there to supervise. But any other time I'd probably have to keep her crated outside until I can trust that she wont be running off and disappearing again. I would totally keep her crated in my bedroom if that was possible but my room is small and I literally have no room for even a chair, let alone an extra large dog crate. The best I can do inside is a small cat carrier, which just won't do.
I let her out of the crate yesterday because I felt bad and wanted to let her exercise a bit its been almost 24 hours since i've last seen her, which like I mentioned in my inital post, is super not normal for her. Prior to all this happening, she was my one cat that I could always rely on to be waiting for me outside the door and always come when I call her. Now its literally just all going downhill.

 

[fionasmom]

I have never used clomicalm, but it might not be a good idea to just stop giving it. Even if you want to do that, which I agree may not be the best thing to do, it might be a medication which has a weaning off period.

 

[sylvie000]

I have never used clomicalm, but it might not be a good idea to just stop giving it. Even if you want to do that, which I agree may not be the best thing to do, it might be a medication which has a weaning off period.

Yes I know, I dont mean just stopping in one day, I mean like weaning her off if it.

 

[sylvie000]

So I have some goodish news and some bad news... Good news is that my dad is letting me put up a giant catio outside (its gonna be huge, I can even put a chair in there and a bunch of fun stuff for her to climb on) so that I can at least keep her in there for the next few months while I sort things out with her health/behavior. I don't like the idea of confining her, but at least this will be a much better option than being in a cage. And if things all turn out well and I can let her back outside without her running off or attacking my other cats, I can turn the catio into an aviary for my birds instead.

The bad news is that she hasn't come home for the past 3 days. The longest she has ever been missing (which only started happening about a month or two ago) was either 2 or 3 days, I don't remember. So she has been off the medication for 3 days already (she has only been on it for 3 weeks so I dont think she is having super bad withdrawals, but she probably is experiencing it a bit). I am trying to keep myself from worrying too much, but I can't really help it because with her negative change in behavior since starting the medication, I am worried that her reason for leaving is not just because she found something more interesting somewhere else to entertain her for a few days, but because she actually does not want to be at home anymore. If she were to just find something more interesting, I would trust that she would return back home when she gets hungry because home is safe, but like I just said, I feel like her reason for leaving this time is because she just doesnt want to be here around all the animals or people anymore and she actually does not want to come back. It does really sting that she doesnt even want to be around me anymore. So I guess I just have to keep waiting to see if she will get hungry enough to come back, or that being off the medication for a few days will make her happy feelings about me return and motivate her enough to come back to me.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Good about the catio! But, sorry to hear she hasn't returned yet. Are you asking around to all the neighbors to see if anyone has seen her? Maybe you should also make flyers with her picture and affix them around the neighborhood. The latter half of this article (link below) will give you some additional ideas on how to look for her - the sooner you start, the better.
Help! My Cat Is Lost! - TheCatSite

The meds might be part of the reason for her wandering off, and not yet returning - more so than her not wanting to be around you anymore. She also probably had pent up energy from being crated, so she is out there taking advantage of that too!

Once the catio is up, I would keep it for your cat - it is the only way to guarantee she doesn't continually run away for days at a time. There are just so many things that can happen to a cat that is allowed to wander. Hopefully, you will find her very soon!

 

[sylvie000]

If she doesn't return by tomorrow morning then I'm going to start posting and sharing everywhere. I did ask one of my neighbors but she didnt see her. I doubt she is hiding nearby. Everyone has a decent chunk of land around here so there arent a whole lot of neighbors I can ask, but yes im going to put flyers everywhere and post everywhere and I have a plan for that.

As for the meds affecting her, do you think this would just be a temporary thing or do meds really just mess with cats forever? Because the vet knows my cat is strictly outdoors and she didnt say anything about it not being a good idea or that I might need to contain her while I give her the meds.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Cats can react differently to any kind of med, so there would be no way to know for sure about that aspect. However, sometimes it just takes a while for a cat's body to adapt to a new med too, so that could be what you were seeing. I've included an article about Clomicalm (see link below) - oddly enough, it sounds like your cat wasn't even on it long enough to have much of an impact. But, as I said, every cat can react differently.

The other thing to consider is that these more recent changes in her were related to being confined to a crate, as opposed to the meds. I'd move on that catio as quickly as possible, as that will give her a whole lot more space to be active in. There are all kinds of things you can put inside a catio to help with entertainment.
Clomicalm (Clomipramine) for Cats - Cat-World

 

[sylvie000]

Thank you for the article.

Yes, perhaps the crate put her in a bad mood. But do you think that would be enough to make her permanently not want to come back home? Pretty much during the first week of medication, I put her in there simply because I didnt feel safe letting her roam around unsupervised during her first week of medication, since I was reading everywhere that the first week can cause a lot of lethargy, sleepiness, and potentially constipation problems, but those issues go away as their body gets used to the meds. So I didnt feel safe letting her wander around at first because I was worried she might not react fast enough to danger and get hurt and I also wanted to make sure I could keep track of her bathroom habits to make sure she was not reacting badly to the meds. So I kept her in the crate for a week, then I let her out once she started gaining more energy back and i could see she was still using the bathroom normally. But then during that second week, she would hang around the property but wouldnt want to come to the feeding area to eat anymore (the shed, aka previously her favorite place until she became aggresive). So it became very difficult to give her meds because she wouldnt come to eat. She also stopped showing up consistently. My cats all know the routine of breakfast and dinner and afternoon activities, so they are almost always on time for meals, but this cat stopped showing up consistently. So thats why I put her back in the crate, because it was becoming impossible to give her the medication on a regular schedule. Then in the third week, I let her back out to see how she would behave around the cats to see if the medication was helping, and also so that she could get some exercise. And after this time she hasnt returned back home in 3 days yet. So from your perspective, does it sound like she is just super mad at being confined and wants to leave completely, or that she just needs a break but will still return? I've had my other cats disappear for days a time occasionally, but they always returned safe and happy. They just obviously found something more entertaining for a couple days but then came back home. But once again, this is a different situation and my cat is not exactly 'healthy' at the moment. So i dont really know what to think.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Cats do not tend to do things out of spite or being mad. She might be savoring her freedom, but that would about it in terms of her staying away longer. But you are right, she is not exactly healthy and that can change her behavior. I'd stop worrying about her missing from these aspects and get moving on trying to find her. The longer she stays away the farther she may have traveled, making it even harder to track her down.

You need to start spending some additional time outside in case you might spot her in the area, perhaps at dawn and dusk and at least that way you'd know she is still staying nearby. Cats will often sneak back for food when it is the quietest - less activity and less people. I presume since you have other outdoor cats that you are putting food out for all of them, including her. If there was a specific place that she liked to eat, make sure you also put food for her there as well.

 

[sylvie000]

I feed my cats wet food, so I dont leave leftovers out sitting, so unfortunately that won't work. Any time I do leave dry food out they eat it all until their stomachs are huge and round, so thats not an option lol
I spend a lot of time outside, hours every day. Usually she is constantly there by my side. But yes if she doesnt show up this evening, I will probably go out at night or even get up in the middle of the night to see if she might be there.
If she doesnt come back for breakfast tomorrow I'll start posting everywhere i can. '

I hope this doesnt all make me sound like a horrible owner too. I completely understand the risks of having outdoor cats, but I have absolutely no control over this matter. I grew up as kid being shamed by the internet for having rabbits living outdoors, when in reality I had absolutely no control over that. My dad got us rabbits, he kept them outside, and I was a kid so i couldn't argue. As for cats, they started off as my parents outdoor barn cats. But when I moved in, I took them all under my wing so that theyve now become pets to me. We live in a generally very safe area for cats luckily. Our cats have a very low risk of getting hit by a car, poisoned, stolen, eaten by predators, etc. So it's not like they are running around the suburbs with danger around every corner. The biggest risk here is them running off, which of course is not too uncommon for cats to do every once in a while. So i just want to make it clear that i really do care about them and I am trying the best that I can under the circumstances. I dont want it to seem like i am ignorant to the dangers and just dont want them inside the house.

 

[FeebysOwner]

No, I understand. You explained early on about your dad. I am just glad he has agreed to the idea of a catio.

 

[sylvie000]

So good news, it’s 4am here and I decided to get up and look for her and she was back I crated her again, which of course I feel really bad to do, but I won’t be letting her out of my sight again and will be setting up the catio, I think this weekend or early next week.
And then I’ll be setting up an appointment with the internal med vet. Thank you so much for the advice everyone! I am really glad to have this forum to discuss these things.