Do ALL cats need eat low phosphorus like CKD cats?

movinintime

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A medical doc told me 20yrs ago that ALL ppl should eat like diabetics & thus diabetes will become lowered rates. So, I'm thinking if ALL kitties ate CKD type diets -- even w/ no kidney damage yet evident -- & since kidney failure is a main reason cats die along w/ the other one, cancer -- then maybe we ought be proactive to ALL our kitties prior to the possibility they may get CKD later on?

In my mind it is just proactive eating, as in humans eating more plant-based foods & thus reducing potential for many chronic diseases later in life as they age.

Now of course, cats are obligate carnivores & as such NEED a MEAT only diet. Even fish is now is a no-no for cats, as is ALL dairy. Unsure tho how Goat's milk is ok according to some? Anyone have ideas re all this CKD protective food/diets??;)
 

Furballsmom

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Hi!
Goat's milk has slightly less lactose than cow milk, and cats are able to process it more easily.

Small amounts of fish, particularly depending on the source, are ok.

Many people work to ensure that their cat(s) drink more water either with a pet fountain or by adding water to their canned food. Some people take the step of feeding home-cooked or raw, to avoid commercial food.

Commercial and some premade/commercial raw foods are already nutritionally complete and raw feeders go to great lengths to ensure that their cats receive all the nutrition necessary.

Beyond these efforts, I personally think that the most proactive approach would be to feed mice and rats. Other than this, I think that a person could possibly cause more trouble than good by adjusting phosphorus levels.
 

Margret

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My husband is in level 4 kidney failure, i.e. his kidneys don't work at all - he's totally dependent on dialysis three times a week. If he gets too much phosphorus in his diet he's in extreme discomfort until he gets some kind of antidote from a doctor (I don't know what the antidote is or how it works, but it's prescription only).

The thing is, the phosphorus isn't a problem because it's somehow damaging his kidneys - in effect he has no kidneys to damage. The phosphorus is a problem because dialysis can't remove it from his body the way kidneys can. There are many healthy foods that are high in phosphorus, that I can eat, because my kidneys handle phosphorus normally, that he can't eat. And I have never had a doctor suggest that I should avoid phosphorus to protect my kidneys - they say that I should control my blood sugar and blood pressure to protect my kidneys.

It's impossible to avoid everything that kidneys remove from the body; that's why we have kidneys; it's what they're for. And, of course, they remove waste that our bodies produce, like uric acid, for instance. (And in case you're wondering, a buildup of excessive uric acid in the body is called "gout." Not nice. :fear:)

I wouldn't try putting a cat on a low phosphorus diet without specific advice to do so from a vet that I trust.

Margret
 

Azazel

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No, I don't think all cats should eat low phosphorous foods, especially not kittens. Phosphorous is an essential nutrient. But, do I think that many commercial cat foods on the market are ridiculously too high in phosphorous? Yes.
 

kittyluv387

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It hasn't been shown that eating a low phosphorus diet will actually prevent kidney disease. Just that a high phosphorus diet will make kidney disease progress even faster. But I do try to feed lower* phosphorus foods (meeting AAFCO limit at least) by not overdoing on bone or eggshell in my raw recipes. But I don't try to achieve low phosphorus levels of canned prescription.

I absolutely agree with Azazel Azazel . AAFCO has minimums but do not set maximums so companies try to get cheap by using more bone than meat since meat is more expensive..and this leads to phosphorus levels that are just too high.
 

MissClouseau

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I'm thinking if ALL kitties ate CKD type diets -- even w/ no kidney damage yet evident
It's been explained beautifully already about phosphorus not causing the kidney disease but just to add, prescription foods for kidney disease is lesser of the evils in the circumstances. They are not nutritionally the best and would do more damage for a cat who doesn't have kidney disease.

Even fish is now is a no-no for cats
That's something I only hear from the USA as a myth. (I call myth because there are also a lot of fishy food in the USA.) We have recent threads about this. A whole lot of cat food in Europe and Asia contain fish. Even the ones advertised as different meat is still mostly fish.

AAFCO has minimums but do not set maximums
This is really a problem and make things get confusing because without maximums the companies also don't have to display the exact phosphorus amount. But to maybe give some idea, I have checked the labels of a bunch of different cat foods last year and usually, on average, the phosphorus level is given as "minimum 1,1%" +/- 0,20. However, there are some cat food that give the minimum higher than that. I have seen that to be more common among SOME grain-free dry foods. Like my cat eats Acana Wild Prairie as her dry food and the minimum of that is 1,1% phosphorus which is pretty average and the same as most grainy foods, but the other versions of the same brand had like 1,4%. At least if the main diet is dry food, personally I would avoid such percentage.

My understanding is, like it's been said, the best thing we can do for kidney health is to make sure they are well-hydrated which is unfortunately a challenge with dry food. And of course taking them to check-up at least once a year to check the situation. Also things like keeping them away from toxic plants and other things that might damage the kidneys.
 

denice

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No I wouldn't feed a low phosphorous diet to a cat that doesn't have CKD. A diet for someone with diabetes, particularly type 2 diabetes, is different from this. It is actually a healthy diet that doesn't skimp on any nutrients. Following that diet will help control weight and keep blood sugar levels steady which is a good thing for everyone.
 

lisahe

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I asked our vet about this shortly after we adopted our cats, when they were ten months old. She basically said not to worry about phosphorous because the cats were young and I was planning to switch them over to an all-wet diet. Water/hydration is the key to prevention, not limiting phosphorous, particularly in young cats.

Here are two articles that say pretty much the same thing our vet told us:
Dr. Becker on kidney disease in cats
Feline Nutrition (by Dr. Katz!) on kidney disease in cats
 

lisahe

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Here is the Expert Forum that we had a while back on kidney disease: Kidney Issues in Cats with Dr. Kris. Be aware that these tend to work best if you start with the last post and work forward.
Yes, I forgot about this! (Now that I remember, I asked him the same question I asked our vet and he gave almost the exact same answer.)

While I wouldn't feed a low phos, CKD diet to a young and healthy cat, I wouldn't feed a high phos diet either.

Although the link below refers to a German study and cats on high phosphorus diets,
I find the info interesting.

And despite what the two vets said, I do pay some attention to phosphorous levels, partly because it's a habit that somehow hung on from our previous cat's last months. (!?!) The cats are now almost seven so I'll be paying more attention as they age, though their phosphorous levels now are all in the low or moderate range, not so much by design (though there have been a couple foods with very high phosphorous that I've cut over the years) but because of the foods they like.
 
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