Difficulties With Dog Breeders

wannahelp

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I have almost always had a dog. Since the beginning of 2016, I have been without a dog for the first time, since I was very young. I love my cats but a dog forces me to get outside and walk and get a little bit of exercise. I know I can walk my cats but I won't. Anyway, I need a non-shedding dog because my female has an allergy to dog dander.
I gave a deposit on a dog to show and breed and signed a contract in August. I e-mailed the breeder recently because after 5 months, she still cannot give me, even an approximate date that I'll have a puppy. I chose this breeder because she is supposed to be very reputable. In the meantime, several litters have come and gone and all I know, at this point, is that some of the dogs from which I might get a puppy have not even beed bred yet.

Breeders co-own breeding dogs and after questioning the breeder about when I'd get a puppy, she got annoyed and said she didn't think she could co-own with me. At that point, I knew that she was looking to get out of the co-ownership agreement.

I was originally told, and I have it in black and white, that I did NOT have to show a dog in order to breed it. After thinking about it, I e-mailed her and told her that, having some medical issues, I didn't think that traveling every weekend long distances, alone, was a good idea. I also told her that, although my parents were gong to pay the expenses for the dog, that I could not afford a full-time dog show handler. I also wanted a list, in advance, of fertility/in vitro sepcialists because there is a one very large vet hospital one state away from me and I cannot access some of the vets because I have an inner ear issues and cannot use an elevator. HOWEVER, there are hundreds of vets in my state and the two adjacent states, that I can and have accessed, with no difficulties. I used to take my dog to a cardiologist that was 2 hours away.


So, now, she's using everything I said as an out, to refuse me a breeding dog and hence a co-ownership. She's saying that because of my medical issues and my financial issues (because I cannot afford a full-time handler on top of costs associated with breeding), she does not feel "comfortable" selling me a breeding dog (for fear that she won't get her money out of the deal) but that she would feel comfortable selling me a pet.
I NEVER agreed to a pet dog and she is not acting in the welfare of the animal, only in the welfare of her own financial interests. So, she has my deposit and although she is refusing to give me the kind of dog we agreed upon, will not relinquish my deposit unless and until someone else gives a deposit for a show dog! Now, I'm going to need to pay a lawyer to get my money back, then sue her for the cost of the attorney. Everything happens to me!
 

Willowy

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Breeders ARE generally very picky about who they let breeding animals go to. That's how you know they're responsible. If the 2 of you don't get along, a co-ownership wouldn't be a good idea, so I'd say you dodged a bullet. Are you set on breeding?

(If you read this part before I edited, nevermind, I misread something).

Lol, you couldn't PAY me to raise a litter of pups!
 

NewYork1303

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It is very rare in most breeds that a breeder will let you co own and breed if they don't know you personally, know your reputation, and have a willingness to mentor you. As for the timeline, if a breeder is lucky they might get one good show quality puppy a litter. They're going to be incredibly picky about who they place them with or if they keep that one themselves. Waiting five months even for a pet puppy that is of good quality stock would actually be almost minimum depending on the breed. That said, I don't think the breeder is being unreasonable.

Showing in confirmation is the a way to get a seal of approval more or less on a dog. Usually responsible breeders wouldn't make a co own agreement with anyone not planning to show, but planning to breed. A breeder may choose a dog as show quality as a puppy and then later see major faults as the puppy grows. Confirmation is a way to mark dogs as good for breeding and to weed out ones with huge faults, temperament flaws,and other issues. Most breeders believe that only the very best dogs of their breed should be bred. My breeder puts it as the only reason to breed a dog is when it would be a great loss to the breed to not have these genetics passed on. Without this standard we get the breed drift that is incredibly common in breeds including Labradors, Golden Retrievers, and German Shepherds. What this breeder seems to be doing is protecting their reputation and their breed, which is what a responsible breeder should be doing.

Most dog breeders aren't making anything on a litter. The money people pay to a breeder is almost entirely, if not all reimbursement for food/shots/prenatal care/health testing.

It is also possible that the breeder has way too much going on, especially if there have been multiple litters in only five months. If you plan on breeding dogs, you would be best off finding someone who is willing to get to know you and to mentor you. You should be planning on spending years researching your chosen breed and learning about breeding and genetics. Dog breeding isn't something to get into lightly. I know several breeders this year who ended up with 10,000 or more in emergency vet bills with their last breeding. Even without emergencies, you'll have to be willing to spend thousands of dollars on the health testing for your dog to rule out any genetic problems, to screen for STDs prior to breeding, and to pay for prenatal care for the dog. If you can't afford handling expenses, this could be a huge red flag to any breeder who knows how incredibly expensive breeding can be.

What breed of dog is this?
 

MeganLLB

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It is very rare in most breeds that a breeder will let you co own and breed if they don't know you personally, know your reputation, and have a willingness to mentor you. As for the timeline, if a breeder is lucky they might get one good show quality puppy a litter. They're going to be incredibly picky about who they place them with or if they keep that one themselves. Waiting five months even for a pet puppy that is of good quality stock would actually be almost minimum depending on the breed. That said, I don't think the breeder is being unreasonable.

Showing in confirmation is the a way to get a seal of approval more or less on a dog. Usually responsible breeders wouldn't make a co own agreement with anyone not planning to show, but planning to breed. A breeder may choose a dog as show quality as a puppy and then later see major faults as the puppy grows. Confirmation is a way to mark dogs as good for breeding and to weed out ones with huge faults, temperament flaws,and other issues. Most breeders believe that only the very best dogs of their breed should be bred. My breeder puts it as the only reason to breed a dog is when it would be a great loss to the breed to not have these genetics passed on. Without this standard we get the breed drift that is incredibly common in breeds including Labradors, Golden Retrievers, and German Shepherds. What this breeder seems to be doing is protecting their reputation and their breed, which is what a responsible breeder should be doing.

Most dog breeders aren't making anything on a litter. The money people pay to a breeder is almost entirely, if not all reimbursement for food/shots/prenatal care/health testing.

It is also possible that the breeder has way too much going on, especially if there have been multiple litters in only five months. If you plan on breeding dogs, you would be best off finding someone who is willing to get to know you and to mentor you. You should be planning on spending years researching your chosen breed and learning about breeding and genetics. Dog breeding isn't something to get into lightly. I know several breeders this year who ended up with 10,000 or more in emergency vet bills with their last breeding. Even without emergencies, you'll have to be willing to spend thousands of dollars on the health testing for your dog to rule out any genetic problems, to screen for STDs prior to breeding, and to pay for prenatal care for the dog. If you can't afford handling expenses, this could be a huge red flag to any breeder who knows how incredibly expensive breeding can be.

What breed of dog is this?
:yeah:

After what you just explained I wouldn't be comfortable selling you a dog for breeding either. There is no way to give you an approximate date on when you can get a puppy suitable for breeding. You can't just breed any dog. They have to have the right confirmation and temperament and you can go through a lot of litters of pet quality dogs before you get one that is not just show quality but suitable for breeding.

And if you are a reputable breeder, I'd imagine this persons loves not only her dogs, but loves this particular breed and has her reputation as a breeder on the line and the welfare of the breed in mind when selling a dog with a breeding contract.

Like I have a cavalier king charles spaniel and resposible breeders will do all of the necessary tests to ensure that they do not pass on genetic diseases, particularly MVD which the breed is known for getting. Breeders work very hard to breed this disease out of them and are very passionate about improving the health of this breed. Just a few of the health tests include scans of heart (MVD) , eye tests, MRI scan for SM and DNA test for Curly Coat / Dry Eye and Episodic Falling, and luxating patella.

A breeder is going to make sure that you will test the dog before you breed it and test any of the puppies you would choose to breed, that you have the best interest of the breed and the dog in mind.

Also showing you dogs is a sign that you are taking the breeding seriously. You say that you can't afford to show, while that isn't necessarily a must, it is a good sign that a breeder shows their dogs. It means that there is a better chance that they are breeding to standard and following AKC guidelines.

In this case, I agree with the breeder. I would feel comfortable only selling you a pet.
 
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wannahelp

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  1. First, I have been around and owned dogs all my life. A relative was a breeder. I am well aware of why breeders show dogs and how they select dogs to breed and how show dogs are chosen.

HOWEVER, this breeder told me, and I have it in an email from her, that if I chose, this could be like a hobby and I could breed a dog with other good qualities but not show.
Second, the breeder herself, does not show her dogs. Many breeders of these types of dogs simply go to another country and buy dogs that may or may not have European titles, bring them back and breed them.
So, if she had not given me the option not to show in the first place but still breed, I would not have inquired and lost my money. The fact is, that I ONLY agreed to a breeding dog and whether I win the lottery tomorroe and can hire a professional Westminster handler or not, she will not co-own with me and should have the decency to refund my money. The real reason shebwill not co own is because I metely inquired as to when I might have a puppy, after seeing MULTIPLE litters come and go.
THIRD, when a breeder has a LOT of breeding dogs both of her own AND co-owned AND about 7 litters have already corm and gone, it is NOT unreasonable to be anle to give a more concrete timeframe because she constantly has dogs thet sre being bred.
I can understand if she only had one or two females but that is not the case. She just brought a non-show dog into rhe country and started breeding her in her first heat. So, you need to have the proper perspective before siding with the breeder.
 
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