Difference between tabby and golden?

Persiankittens

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I'm in serious need of a cat color expert.


So, I have 2 kittens. Both are considered "goldens" I love both, I think both are equally gorgeous.

I bred the darker one through my cattery and have always adopted that color out as tabbies.

The kitten pictured in the car is a kitten I just purchased, she is considered a golden.

An issue I've been coming across; I have seen sooo many breeders sell my color kitten.. the tabby, as "golden Persians"

Everyone and their cousin seem to think that the darker ones, such as mine, are also considered a golden. I kindly asked a lady what made her tabby a golden and she said the blue eyes 🤔 kitten was a 7 week old tabby, color not even set and she's selling them as goldens with blue eyes. And people are agreeing!

I don't agree. I wish I did, I wish I didn't just drop an outrageous amount of cash on breeding stock that I personally believe is a much truer golden, but here I am, with an empty wallet and a beautiful golden kitten.

Anyone know their cat color codes?

Any cat show judges out there willing to put me straight?

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Please? Lol.

Maybe I'm not with the times and the kitten I bred is considered golden as well? I don't want to breed her and sell her kittens as goldens just because everyone else is doing it. Only if it's the proper color code.

Would love to hear thoughts on this!
 

posiepurrs

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Golden kittens are born tabby. Technically they ARE tabbies, but the tabby marking blend in to the shading with age. Mackerel tabby marking tend to blend better while the classic usually (not always though) means the cat will be a tabby. Blue eyes are NOT allowed in goldens, but blue green are. The blue is because the kitten is so young and the longer the eye color takes to change, it generally means better green eye color. To tell if the 'tabby' kitten you bred is a true tabby, check the undercoat. If the barring goes entirely to the skin, it will probably be a tabby, if not maybe a golden. I know very experienced breeders who have been fooled by a kitten being a golden when they thought it was a tabby. One thing I was taught when I started out is to look at the color between the ear and the eye. It is an indicator of adult coat color. The one kitten in the car looks to have really nice color, although it doesn't appear to be of show quality but that could change with maturity. Has good eye shape too - nice and round. The below photos are all of the same golden from the day after birth to an adult. At his first show a judge questioned if he was a golden tabby (not allowed to be shown in CFA). I made the mistake of neutering him based on that - the judge was a Persian breeder so I thought he knew what he was talking about. Funny story: Some years after that first show when Jack was receiving his second regional win, that judge was a presenter. He told me while photos were being taken that he had always LOVED Jack. To which I responded - "No you didn't! You told me he shouldn't be shown!".
Here is the standard from the CFA website:
"CHINCHILLA GOLDEN: undercoat pale honey to bright apricot. Coat on back, flanks, head, and tail sufficiently tipped with black to enhance a golden appearance. Legs and end of tail may be shaded with tipping. Chin, ear tufts, stomach, and chest, consistent dilute color, much lighter in tone than the undercoat color. The general effect is lighter than a shaded golden due to less tipping. Rims of eyes, lips, and nose outlined with black. Nose leather: rose. Paw pads: black. Eye color: green or blue-green. Disqualify for incorrect eye color, incorrect eye color being copper, yellow, gold, amber, or any color other than green or blue-green.

SHADED GOLDEN: undercoat pale honey to bright apricot with a mantle of black tipping shading down from the sides, face, head and tail. Legs to be the same tone as the face. Ear tufts, chin, chest, stomach and underside of the tail, consistent dilute color, much lighter in tone than the undercoat. The general effect is darker than a chinchilla golden due to more tipping. Rims of eyes, lips, and nose outlined with black. Nose leather: rose. Paw pads: black. Eye color: green or blue-green. Disqualify for incorrect eye color, incorrect eye color being copper, yellow, gold, amber, or any color other than green or blue-green."

This is probably way more than you wanted to know. This is GP RW Posiepurrs Jacaranda, highest scoring golden premier in the world for 2 years (way back when I was showing him).
 

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di and bob

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ALL cats carry the tabby gene, some are just more subtle or hidden. The big 'M' on the forehead is another indicator of a tabby. Ypou can often see the faint stripes of seemingly solid cats when they lay in the sun.
 
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Persiankittens

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posiepurrs posiepurrs

Oh my, he is absolutely stunning!!!!

See, this is the golden color I've been chasing for my program and I have never come across a golden persian with that true golden coloring, they have always been tabbies in my eyes.

I completely forgot that they are in fact coded as a tabby, thank you for that reminder!

Also, no such thing as too much info, I appreciate all of it, especially the pictures as well, it definitely helps me visualize!

My silvers are usually born with just regular darker tips that become lighter but it always seemed to me that goldens aren't born the same way silvers are and that's the part that's confusing since they're in the same division. Silvers are born with a dark coating that just becomes lighter with age. Goldens seem to be born looking like tabbies.

Now that I am finally adding goldens to our program, I will happily take on any information I can! 😊 Thank you for this!
 
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Persiankittens

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ALL cats carry the tabby gene, some are just more subtle or hidden.
That's also a good point I completely forgot reading about years ago. I'm feeling like i need to pick up a book on cat colors or something at this point! 😅
 

posiepurrs

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See, this is the golden color I've been chasing for my program and I have never come across a golden persian with that true golden coloring, they have always been tabbies in my eyes.
What I was seeing were goldens with a grayish gold coat when I was showing. One thing to remember though is that seasons will play a part in a goldens color. One of mine would lighten up in winter but darken in summer when she lost her winter coat. The tipping, which is more prominent in summer made her look darker. I was lucky getting my foundation cats that I got some good coloring. There are a couple of books that may interest you. Both are out of print but The Book of the Cat is available on Ebay.
The Book Of The Cat Paperback Book The Fast Free Shipping 9780330261531 | eBay
The second book is The Proper Care of Silver and Golden Persians by Dee J. Single.
Proper Care of Silver and Golden Persians: Single, Dee: 9780866225960: Amazon.com: Books
The Book of the Cat has a chapter on colors, coat patterns etc. Some of the genetic info may not be valid any longer because this was from an earlier period of breeding. It still has some good and interesting reading. The silver and golden book I added just because it is fun to read since you are a S&G breeder. Some of the photos are mislabeled though with incorrect cat names.
If I can make a suggestion, study the pedigrees if you aren't already. It helps. Just to add more interest to this post here are a few of more goldens. The first 2 were my foundation goldens. RDreams Golden Bamboo is the sire of the previously posted golden, Jack. Savannah is the second photo and the only one of all of these that hasn't crossed the rainbow bridge. She is 18 now. Next is Poppy and last is Sol (Solidago). Posting these makes me nostalgic for past times!
 

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Persiankittens

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What I was seeing were goldens with a grayish gold coat when I was showing. One thing to remember though is that seasons will play a part in a goldens color. One of mine would lighten up in winter but darken in summer when she lost her winter coat. The tipping, which is more prominent in summer made her look darker. I was lucky getting my foundation cats that I got some good coloring.
I didn't realize I never responded back, I'll definitely take a look at those books, completely forgot to order them but am in it now! Thank you for those suggestions, I appreciate that!

The coat likely gets darker because it's thinner, so less of the lighter undercoat keeping them warm. I have a shaded silver that looks super dark during the summer and puffs and lightens up during the winter months as well.

Did I mention that your cats are absolutely stunning? Seriously. They are perfectly gorgeous. I can't imagine how much time and love you've put into that coat. What a magnificent creature!

I've attached pictures of how my two girls are looking nowadays as well :) no where near as stunning as your champ, but we love them just the same!
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posiepurrs

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Your girls are beauty’s. Show cat or not all of our babies are truly special - titles aren’t important to the heart.
Thank you for the compliments. Yes, it does take time. The grooming of Jack in the photo labeled best of the best with the judge holding him took 5 hours. Of course that was longer by about an hour than what it would have taken if I did it at home. I groomed, bathed and dried at a hotel since we traveled to the show. Jack was a big chicken about being bathed in the bath tub so I ended up bathing this 12 pound cat in a little hotel sink!
 
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Persiankittens

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Your girls are beauty’s. Show cat or not all of our babies are truly special - titles aren’t important to the heart.
Thank you for the kind words 😊 and yes, absolutely; titles don't mean anything when it comes to love! Especially to your own kitties 💜 but nevertheless, your cat looks spectacular.

The grooming of Jack in the photo labeled best of the best with the judge holding him took 5 hours. Of course that was longer by about an hour than what it would have taken if I did it at home. I groomed, bathed and dried at a hotel since we traveled to the show. Jack was a big chicken about being bathed in the bath tub so I ended up bathing this 12 pound cat in a little hotel sink!
Not only 5 hours... you forgot to add the daily amount of time you spent brushing him every day for years keeping matts out, butt shaves, poop washes, baths and the inevitable blow dry that leaves your entire face, eyeballs, nostrils and throat caked in fur.. I can't imagine the amount of time, energy and love you put into keeping him looking so pristine. Honestly, I always have such respect for show cats, it seriously is a full time job! In other words... I just can't get over his poofiness lol 😅
 

posiepurrs

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Yes, I miss being able to show groom the cats, but I just don't have time to do it now that life has thrown me a curve ball. I just try to keep everyone shaved down now. They are all in the process of being shaved but I am trying not to shave Jack or Sterling (my silver boy who was supposed to be my latest show cat). For the record, I only comb, never brush and when I can keep them bathed I don't have to comb everyday. You are correct about being covered in fur - especially when they start blowing coat!
 

Maurey

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Yes, I miss being able to show groom the cats, but I just don't have time to do it now that life has thrown me a curve ball. I just try to keep everyone shaved down now. They are all in the process of being shaved but I am trying not to shave Jack or Sterling (my silver boy who was supposed to be my latest show cat). For the record, I only comb, never brush and when I can keep them bathed I don't have to comb everyday. You are correct about being covered in fur - especially when they start blowing coat!
Off topic, but if you’ve talked about the products (mainly interested in brushes, antistatic/detangling sprays, and perhaps some shampoo wipes that actually work lol) you prefer to use previously, I’d very much appreciate a link 🙂
 

posiepurrs

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Off topic, but if you’ve talked about the products (mainly interested in brushes, antistatic/detangling sprays, and perhaps some shampoo wipes that actually work lol) you prefer to use previously, I’d very much appreciate a link 🙂
There is an article on the site that speaks about my process. I also have one one my now closed but still accessible website. For combing- and I only comb, never brush, I uses greyhound comb. Don’t really use detaning spray because I have found it makes the coat gummy and more prone to tangle. For static try increasing the humidity in the home. I have even lightly misted the cats with a fine spray of water.
 
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