Diet plan advice requested for a fat cat!

[Sophia_]

Is there any correlation, in terms of the food, between the last time she threw up about 3 or so hours after eating (which was early November, correct?) and this time? If there is, that food might just not always settle right with her. Was there gravy involved? I know you said before it seems like she is more inclined to throw up if you feed her the gravy. Is this her usual pattern to want food right after throwing up?

Last time she threw up, it was the rabbit flavor and the time before that, it was the turkey. Both times I distinctly remember those cans having more gravy than usual. This time it was also the turkey flavor, but no gravy. She eats both of those flavors 3-4x per week, so I don’t think it’s an allergy. I’m also curious of whether it’s a liquid volume problem? But when I feed her Tiki Cat, I don’t strain the broth and add water to give her “cat soup” that she adores.

She wants food at all times. She is VERY food motivated to the point that I’ve been able to teach her some tricks. She high-fives before every meal. I do believe there is some psychology behind eating with her. If I am not within her sight after she finishes, she’ll desperately meow until she finds me again. She is also obsessed with blankets. After every meal, she has to burrow, knead, and suck on them while purring for about 10-20 minutes. I guess it reminds her of being a happy full kitten.

I’ll give her a small amount of food to make sure she stays hydrated and comfortable.

 

[Furballsmom]

I don’t want to give her a second meal just yet, so is she okay to wait for dinner at 6 PM? Or should I skip that and just do her 11 PM feeding?

and comfortable.

Wait a minute, she threw up her meal. Why would you not only make her wait, but actually consider skipping her 6 PM?
You're cutting her calories too much already at this point in my opinion. Are you making sure she's getting blood test and body condition followups with her vet?

 

[Talien]

It may be the plant based ingredients that are causing her to vomit, Tiki Cat has little to none depending on the variety (some of the fish flavors do have a small amount) and I know Merrick has some. One of my Cats developed an intolerance to any sort of plant based ingredients in her older years and would vomit almost every time I fed her anything with plant based ingredients, for her the main culprits seemed to be gums. She stopped almost immediately after I switched her to eating raw/LID and only ever vomited hairballs after that.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I’m also curious of whether it’s a liquid volume problem? But when I feed her Tiki Cat, I don’t strain the broth and add water to give her “cat soup” that she adores. She wants food at all times. She is VERY food motivated to the point that I’ve been able to teach her some tricks. She high-fives before every meal. I do believe there is some psychology behind eating with her. If I am not within her sight after she finishes, she’ll desperately meow until she finds me again. She is also obsessed with blankets. After every meal, she has to burrow, knead, and suck on them while purring for about 10-20 minutes. I guess it reminds her of being a happy full kitten.

If it were a volume issue, as in too much food/liquid at once, I would suspect she would throw up right away, not 3 hours later. Any chance those times she has thrown up that a longer time elapsed between the previous meal and the one after which she threw up? A lot of stomach acid can build up if she goes too long without eating, and once the food hits her stomach and is starting to be digested, it is souring from the large volume of acids, causing her to throw up. Most times when a lot of acid is involved vomiting occurs a little faster, but maybe not in her case.

If she only throws up every couple of months, I don't think it is quite as worrisome as if it were more frequently.

You can compare the ingredients in the foods to see if you can catch any pattern about certain ingredients making her vomit - as suggested above - but, it doesn't seem like that would be the case since so much time lapses between the times she vomits.

 

[Sophia_]

Wait a minute, she threw up her meal. Why would you not only make her wait, but actually consider skipping her 6 PM?
You're cutting her calories too much already at this point in my opinion. Are you making sure she's getting blood test and body condition followups with her vet?

Is it normal for people to feed their pets immediately after they vomit? Again, Sophia is my first cat and I’ve owned only dogs before her, and I realize they’re different animals, but vet advice I’ve received my entire life was to fast for a few hours after vomiting to make sure they keep it down. I gave her a meal an hour after she vomited. I just wasn’t sure, which is why I consulted the forum in the first place.

She got her last blood test in September and I intend to take her again soon. Her results were perfect except for slightly elevated glucose levels that they attributed to fear. She is very fractious and must be medicated even for an exam.

As for body condition, the most concern is with her massive abdominal fat pad. All of her weight loss so far has been around her neck, back, and more recently her haunches. Before the weight spike via overfeeding by her previous owner and foster, she was an 11 pound cat for most of her life. The vet wants to see how close she can get to that, taking into account excess skin.

 

[Sophia_]

If it were a volume issue, as in too much food/liquid at once, I would suspect she would throw up right away, not 3 hours later. Any chance those times she has thrown up that a longer time elapsed between the previous meal and the one after which she threw up? A lot of stomach acid can build up if she goes too long without eating, and once the food hits her stomach and is starting to be digested, it is souring from the large volume of acids, causing her to throw up. Most times when a lot of acid is involved vomiting occurs a little faster, but maybe not in her case.

Sorry for the double post instead of putting these quote replies together. She goes from her final meal at 11 PM until 8:30 AM for breakfast every single day, including today. I suppose it is possible that stomach acid built up in that time, but she has actually gone a bit longer (such as until 9 AM) a handful of times in busy mornings. No vomit on those days.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Is it normal for people to feed their pets immediately after they vomit?

I have never waited too long before trying to feed Feeby again, and to date she hasn't thrown up a second time.

As for body condition, the most concern is with her massive abdominal fat pad. All of her weight loss so far has been around her neck, back, and more recently her haunches.

Although Sophia is younger (by far) than Feeby (16+ yo), most of the abdominal fat will likely not go away. Feeby went from around 17 pounds in 4/2019 to 13.1 now - not by my doing. Her weight loss has been exactly where you describe Sophia's - and, she still has her 'primordial pouch' belly, with some extra fat there. I still can't really feel her ribs much at all, even though I can easily feel her hip bones. If your vet is aware of how/where she is losing the weight, it might that he considers it 'normal'. If you're not sure, call and have a chat with him about it, just to see what he thinks.

 

[Sophia_]

I called the vet when she vomited the first time here (nervous new cat owner) and his response was, “Probably just stomach upset. Wait a bit then feed her when you normally would next. Call if she doesn’t keep it down.” As for today, the Tiki Cat breakfast replacement has stayed down and she’s currently purring in her favorite blanket. Incident clear for today, but I’ll take a closer look at those Merrick ingredients.

That’s a good weight loss example to have. Her belly has gotten slightly smaller since she was 18+ lbs and I’m noticing some more flexibility when cleaning. I don’t expect it to go away completely, but you can definitely tell she still has more to lose overall.

A lot of people brush it off when I mention her weight. “I’ve seen fatter.” I mean we’ve all seen Garfield but I’m trying to give this poor old girl the best life I can! She definitely feels better since losing the weight, but her joints still click and I notice her licking them after she jumps down from somewhere or zooms around. She’s on Cosequin but I’m not sure if that’s enough.

 

[Talien]

Is it normal for people to feed their pets immediately after they vomit?

Not a full meal no, but a small amount to see if they're still interested in eating and see if they'll keep it down yes. If they vomit again then there may be something more serious going on than just an upset stomach, but if they keep it down you can feed a bit more so they aren't going hungry.

 

[Sophia_]

Weight update:
1/3: 15.7 lbs (her weight typically dips after she throws up)
1/10: 15.9 lbs
1/17: 15.8 lbs
1/24: 15.9 lbs

Sophia officially converted to 100% Tiki Cat After Dark on 1/11, which still means 170-180 calories per day, but she’s stagnated. I also think she’s feeling less full on the shreds versus the pate despite getting 2 more ounces per day. She has become even more vocal before, during, and after mealtime since the switch, but she does seem to like it better.

I’m not sure if it’s a loss of fiber or just that her body is able to utilize the food better, but she now only has bowel movements every other day and there’s zero smell. More pleasant for me, but I want to make sure she’s not constipated. She always grunts like an old man when using the litter box no matter how easily she goes so I can’t tell.

She definitely needs another sanitary shave. She keeps accidentally peeing on her belly and me trying to wipe it is like World War III. On that note, she has completely stopped using the litter box in my room after barely using it to begin with. She will only use the one in the main bathroom, which is much smaller due to space constraints and she barely fits. I’m sure this is related to the problem.

But anyway, she seems to have really warmed up to me since August. She follows me everywhere and meows when she can’t find me, nuzzles her nose against mine, and tries to groom my hair. It’s a nice change of pace from being bit.

 

[Furballsmom]

Zero smell is great. I'm glad to hear she's not biting any more!

She has become even more vocal before, during, and after mealtime since the switch, but she does seem to like it better.

can you break up the meals into smaller more frequent ones?

but she’s stagnated.

Just in case this helps, I copied this from a TCS article;

• Set aside two separate 20-30 minute sessions each day for play/exercise and reward your cat for participating. You can work the calories and fat intake of a few treats into your cat’s daily allowance of food and use treats in play or as an incentive to play.
• Make sure to discuss Exercise/Play time with your vet, particularly if your cat is very obese, as the over-exertion caused by extensive play can harm your cat. Calorie intake will need to be adjusted depending on the activity level of your cat.
• There are many types of ‘exercises’ to strengthen different muscles:
  • Invest in a good laser toy. Laser games may help your cat to run around and play as well as stretch up the wall to tone the abdomen, and wand or fishing pole-type toys can hold interest long enough to allow her to stretch, jump, run and pounce.
  • Try placing a few pieces of his dry food on separate steps on the staircase or on different levels of the cat tree. This can help to slow down eating and force your cat to work off a few calories.
  • Tie a trailing piece of string or other interesting toy that drags along behind you to your clothing. As you move around the house, this may interest your cat enough to follow you around – and help to keep her moving.
  • Catnip and honeysuckle toys can give your cat something to play with alone. You may find that after a few months of diet and exercise, the weight loss brings on an increased level of energy in your cat and may make her feel as playful as a kitten!
  • Ensure that all of your cats get playtime together as a group. One of the best forms of exercise is when cats chase each other around the house. As an added benefit, it is good for the other cats too.
  • Simple things can make great cat toys; a cheap bottle of bubbles can keep a cat amused for ages, and we all know how they like to play with normal household items – use that to your advantage before buying expensive toys they may not like. It also helps to regularly change the toys they play with, so they do not get bored with them.

 

[Talien]

Weight update:
1/3: 15.7 lbs (her weight typically dips after she throws up)
1/10: 15.9 lbs
1/17: 15.8 lbs
1/24: 15.9 lbs

Sophia officially converted to 100% Tiki Cat After Dark on 1/11, which still means 170-180 calories per day, but she’s stagnated. I also think she’s feeling less full on the shreds versus the pate despite getting 2 more ounces per day. She has become even more vocal before, during, and after mealtime since the switch, but she does seem to like it better.

I’m not sure if it’s a loss of fiber or just that her body is able to utilize the food better, but she now only has bowel movements every other day and there’s zero smell. More pleasant for me, but I want to make sure she’s not constipated. She always grunts like an old man when using the litter box no matter how easily she goes so I can’t tell.

She definitely needs another sanitary shave. She keeps accidentally peeing on her belly and me trying to wipe it is like World War III. On that note, she has completely stopped using the litter box in my room after barely using it to begin with. She will only use the one in the main bathroom, which is much smaller due to space constraints and she barely fits. I’m sure this is related to the problem.

But anyway, she seems to have really warmed up to me since August. She follows me everywhere and meows when she can’t find me, nuzzles her nose against mine, and tries to groom my hair. It’s a nice change of pace from being bit.

No smell and less frequent litterbox use is normal for raw and LID foods, something like Tiki Cat that has almost 100% easily digestible ingredients means there's going to be less waste, you'll probably notice her poop is not only less in quantity but smaller too.

 

[Sophia_]

Just posting out of frustration... just got another nasty bite from Sophia. She came out of my bedroom from sleeping on my bed and jumped up on the couch to cuddle with me. I was on my laptop, bent over, and she walked between my arms in front of the screen. I gave her a little nuzzle on the head (she normally tolerates this) and as I pulled away, she lunged and latched onto my right arm.

Her teeth went through my long-sleeve fleece and punctured my skin. It drew blood. I quickly sanitized it with peroxide, applied neosporin, and bandaged it. I have an annual checkup on Thursday, so I’m going to have the doctor look at it.

Every time I think I’m getting somewhere, this happens. If cat bites weren’t so prone to infection, I would have more patience. Sorry, just needed to get this out.

 

[Flybynight]

I have heard declawed cats are more likely to bite. I am not sure what prompted the bite in this case but oftentimes they are in more pain and that can be a trigger.
I understand from your first post you adopted her already declawed. There was a documentary I saw on Netflicks about declawing and its effects on cats, which may be good to watch. It includes the pain they suffer and relays some behavior issues that may come about as a result.

For food, good on dropping the dry
If she will eat pates with less gravy that may help as well but at her age I think you have made a lot of good progress.

 

[Sophia_]

I’m having a very hard week. Yesterday Sophia was playing in the kitchen while my father and I stood about 6 feet away. She was batting a toy and ran head first into the corner of the oven. It was extremely loud. She whipped around and stared at us, as if we had done it. She then ran around the house to hide like she does when I vacuum. She was afraid of me for about an hour after. She eventually came out for food and cuddles like everything was fine. She had no signs of concussion and let me examine her head.

About an hour ago, I believe she ate a small piece of raw potato (about the size of board game dice). I read this is toxic, so I canceled my plans to stop by my parents’ so I could keep an eye on her. She ate dinner and used her litter box just fine, so we’re probably in the clear.

About 30 minutes after that, she jumped up on the couch behind my head. I didn’t feel comfortable with her up there just a few days after getting bit [foreshadowing] and told her “git.” This a command she knows to jump down when she’s on something she’s not allowed. She meows and complains but listens, then I pet her once she’s on the ground. This has never resulted in a bite before.

Within 10 minutes, I was on the phone with my mother and she was circling me. Rubbing my legs, messing around by her toy box. Then she let out about 4 meows I’d never heard before. They sounded really distressed. I sat down on the floor with her and her eyes were like saucers. I was just there sitting and talking to my mom for a few moments and she lunged. She was going for my face. I put my arms up in self defense and she got my shoulder, bad. I would post a photo but there are identifying tattoos in it. I screamed and she ran. I’ve been in the other room without her ever since.

Just cleaned it up and am trying to figure out why it happened. I theorize that she’s in pain. She doesn’t normally jump off the couch from that high (3 feet?). Maybe it hurt her paws. Every single bite has taken place in the same 5 foot radius in the direct center of the house — the place besides my bed where I spend the most time. Is she territorial? Is it a coincidence because I’m always there? I suspect she has Pica because she’s become obsessed with licking/chewing plastic, which I took away 10 minutes before the bite. But no other bites have dealt with taking anything away.

I may ask the vet for pain killers or Prozac. She already can’t be examined without a large dose of Gabapentin. I’m just so exhausted by how seemingly unpredictable these bites are. She NEVER acts afraid first. Her tail and ears are high and friendly. She’s rubbing my legs or head butting me. I am not excessively petting or touching any off-limits areas.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I personally think she is feeling some sort of stress from you, combined that with the events that took place today beforehand - and it all has put her over the edge again. As far as I can tell, the biting wasn't going on at the beginning of your thread, but seems more like after you started to become focused on her weight and her diet.

Based on some of the things you have said and done, I am getting the impression that you are afraid of your own cat and frustrated by all that has happened in your sincere desire to care for her properly. The worry and the fear cause your body to create certain pheromones - and cats are so much better about picking up those scent changes than humans are - and, they will react to them.

You have been so good to her, but in some ways I think that you 'over-think' things and it causes a bit of a stressful environment for the both of you. I don't have specific answers, and I am not sure where you are going to get them. But, maybe reading more about owning cats, how you react to them, they react to you, and what causes 'friction' will help. On that note, these articles (see links below) are not going to give you any miracle solutions, but perhaps they can help you to gain some insight on what might be behind some of the negative interactions. Sorry, for so many articles, and I am sure there are some 'repeat' material in them, but there still might be worth going through everyone one of them, just on the chance you see some things that 'click' in your situation.
Why Do Cats Attack? – TheCatSite Articles
Why Do Cats…? A Guide To Understanding Feline Behavior – TheCatSite Articles
Your Cat Probably Hates It When You… – TheCatSite Articles
Cat Acting Strangely? Here’s What It Could Mean – TheCatSite Articles
First-time Cat Owner’s Guide – TheCatSite Articles

 

[Sophia_]

I appreciate you coming along on this journey with me, FeebysOwner . I think the increased bite frequency has come from me actually becoming more confident and less fearful around her. I used to touch her much less in the beginning. Now, I handle her 1-2x per day to wipe her butt and belly after the litter box, and pet/cuddle her more. I think we need to re-establish some new boundaries.

I’m going to read the articles tonight. Thank you for the resources.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I used to touch her much less in the beginning. Now, I handle her 1-2x per day to wipe her butt and belly after the litter box, and pet/cuddle her more. I think we need to re-establish some new boundaries.

She may just never be a touchy-feely type of cat, so that might be part of the problem. But, you have to do her daily booty and belly wipes, if necessary to help her with hygiene. That part is hard to not do when needed.

So sorry things are not going better. I hope there is at least one (or more) pieces of information in those articles that might help. I know you are trying your best!