DESPERATE. 10 of 16 cats with Giardia - how the hell can I contain this?

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moxiewild

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I'd dose them now. Particularly since the worming meds already haven't worked. But, I normally foster neonates so the shelter I foster for tends to throw everything and the kitchen sink at illness. 🤷‍♀️
Even if they’ll (very, very likely) be on Fenbendazole/Panacur later this week..?

Obviously if they miraculously test negative for giardia - in which case they would not receive Panacur - we’d then get them on Drontal or Pyrantel instead.

But two separate dewormers and dewormer rounds in one week seems awfully risky, especially since no one is exhibiting any particularly concerning or life threatening symptoms.
 
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moxiewild

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Is the dresser painted? You may need to repaint it. A Rockler store employee could help more specifically, if it's milk paint, or even if not.
It’s stained. I fixed it up a few years ago and stained it myself. Would be a huge PITA to have to sand it down and re-stain, so I guess paint would be my only option :/

If it's not painted, find some cigar ash from a cigar/wine bar, smokeshop or cigar herf if you don't know anyone-just the soft material from the outside of the ash, with none of the gritty hard stuff from the center (-- this is a super mild/gentle abrasive) and a drop of mineral oil. Try one print first, apply and rub with your finger and no pressure. Wipe completely with a dry cotton t-shirt, and buff with a second dry cotton t-shirt.
Welp, that was not a potential solution anywhere on my radar 😂 Interesting!

As it happens, my dad was gifted some cigars for Christmas. How much ash is (roughly) needed? I know that’s difficult to quantify, but my dad only received a small pack, so that’s why I ask. I’d say it was only 5-8 cigars.

Is there something specific about cigar ash or is it primarily the texture that works? Might baking soda work...?

Surely there has to be some secret here, because plenty of people use clay litter with hardwood floors (and the dresser was on the opposite side of the room as the litterboxes and they had to walk on carpet to get to it, so that’s some pretty impressive tracking power!)!

What about the crate trays? Obviously I don’t need to worry about ruining those. I used a rough sponge, but maybe I need to use a firm bristle brush? Or one of those metal brushes... no idea what they’re called... or used for... I for sure know they’re used to clean grills because I saw it on Monsters Inside Me once 😂 But wasn’t sure if they’re typically used to clean other surfaces where damage isn’t much of a concern.

All of our crates look so filthy right now even right after we clean and disinfect. Very glad we’re not allowing guests over right now because it looks like we’re letting them live in pretty unsanitary conditions! Even their separate food tray has prints all over it! :sigh:
 

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Is there something specific about cigar ash or is it primarily the texture that works?
You might never get the baking soda completely removed out of the finish, also - it could have a chemical reaction, and - it's too abrasive.

Try the cigar ash (you don't need much, a couple tablespoons total maybe?) It has the perfect gentle abrasiveness (and no paper like cigarettes have).

---->Try it dry, without the mineral oil, first on one print, then you'll have a better idea of how much you need.
 

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Even if they’ll (very, very likely) be on Fenbendazole/Panacur later this week..
I absolutely would. Already sick kitties who also have worms that have resisted 2 months of Revolution treatment and at least one worming would scare the crap outta me. I'd throw everything and the kitchen sink at it until they got better. But again, I mostly deal with neonates. All illness scares the crap outta me cause it can turn emergent so fast.

In my limited personal experience and reseach worming medications are super easy on kitty cats bodies with minimal if any side effects. My last litter was only 2 weeks old and on Panacur, Praziquantel, ponazuril, and penicillin all at the same time and had strongid just a few days before.

That said, I'm not a vet and can only say what I would do if it was me. You know you and yours faaaaaaaaar better than I do, obviously. Maybe call the clinic and ask them if it was safe? Get an answer straight from the expert.
 
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moxiewild

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I absolutely would. Already sick kitties who also have worms that have resisted 2 months of Revolution treatment and at least one worming would scare the crap outta me. I'd throw everything and the kitchen sink at it until they got better. But again, I mostly deal with neonates. All illness scares the crap outta me cause it can turn emergent so fast.

In my limited personal experience and reseach worming medications are super easy on kitty cats bodies with minimal if any side effects. My last litter was only 2 weeks old and on Panacur, Praziquantel, ponazuril, and penicillin all at the same time and had strongid just a few days before.

That said, I'm not a vet and can only say what I would do if it was me. You know you and yours faaaaaaaaar better than I do, obviously. Maybe call the clinic and ask them if it was safe? Get an answer straight from the expert.
I get it. I take in neonate puppies and kittens from time to time, and I primarily work with neonate mammalian wildlife. And I’m definitely that way with my seniors/geriatrics and certain medically special needs. Helicopter Mom Activate!

I called today, but didn’t hear back. Typical for this clinic, honestly. But it’s about the 12th I’ve tried and I’ve yet to find anyone “competent” (sounds a fair bit more harsh than it’s meant), familiar with rescue/strays/ferals, sufficiently experienced with seniors+, and willing to actually consider my input/research and field all of my many questions I always have (and without getting offended or seeming put off by it). :dunno::sniffle:

We’re taking Ash in again for another dip tomorrow. It’s not an actual appointment, but I’m going to try and talk to someone anyway so I’ll ask about this too, obviously.

Like I said, I’d be a lot more concerned if I’d observed more symptomology - but whoever pooped this out even had perfect poop! 10 weeks is also not nearly as vulnerable as neonate either, as you noted.
 
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moxiewild

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If you're fostering, you should have a big ol' bottle of pyrantel around. Of course ask the organization you're fostering for if they approve it, but that's the same stuff as Strongid.
Yep. I have Pyrantel, Drontal, Praziquantel, and several different flea meds (both topical and oral). I rescue and foster companion animals privately, though.
 
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moxiewild

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Okay, so... I’ve had something of a falling out with both of our vets due to their unwillingness to prescribe panacur (or any other dewormer) without a fecal for each cat/kitten (which would likely take days and days, costs money, etc) or Itraconazole for ringworm.

I’ve gone to two new vets (one last week, one this week) who have also been unwilling to prescribe without fecals, even with several pictures of excreted roundworm and clearly wormy kitten bellies. (Both also felt systemic medication for ringworm is unnecessary???).

I feel like I am going out of my damn mind trying to find a halfway decent vet.

Also, Binx and Oreo have also developed ringworm as of yesterday.

So... taking things into my own hands in the meantime until I can find another vet next week.

While I do have Pyrantel (and not nearly as much Drontal as I thought), I would really prefer a 5-day course of Fenbendazole/Panacur for the roundworm kittens because of the Giardia - why not knock out two birds with one stone?

I don’t recall ever purchasing Panacur OTC though, so I’m not confident about what brand with it being off-label in the US. Just Safeguard or Panacur C?

I cannot recall dosing for cats, and fairly certain I’ve never dosed kittens with anything other than Pyrantel or Drontal - which is again an issue due to the off-label use making reliable information more difficult to find.

Suggestions for brand and dose, granule vs liquid? I know the liquid requires an annoyingly large dose, but I’ve never used granules before.

I’m not sure if my older guys have roundworm or not. They had a dose of Revolution today, so for now I’m going to rely on that. And I’m going to wait until we find a new vet to submit fecals for those guys (and the older isolated kitten, Elvira) for the Giardia.

W Willowy jcat jcat B Bratcat31
 

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Safeguard for goats is the same as Panacur. You can get it at TSC. You can use the other formulas too, but you have to figure out the right dosage. The goat kind is the same strength as regular Panacur suspension.
 
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moxiewild

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Safeguard for goats is the same as Panacur. You can get it at TSC. You can use the other formulas too, but you have to figure out the right dosage. The goat kind is the same strength as regular Panacur suspension.
What is the dosing for weight?
 

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I haven't had to buy Panacur myself but have considered it and likely would have gotten it here until I read the previous post

Panacur Oral Suspension for Cats : Panacur Liquid Wormer

This is the dosing I use. Fortunately Panacur has a WIDE range of OK to use so being off a bit shouldn't cause any issues.

Cat Worming Chart

this is only what I would do though. I cannot say it is safe or good to do. Just what I would/have done before with my resident (never foster) cats.
 

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Another (maybe better) solution - there are websites and FB pages that allow you ask vets simple questions. I bet they would give you a medical reply
 
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moxiewild

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What are some ways to differentiate between bad worm infestation vs FIP, especially if potentially concurrent?

My boyfriend ended up sick, then gave it to me, and it delayed us starting fenbendazole a few days. While we were down, we were doing as much as we could in the kitten room in particular, but were not quite well enough to socialize/interact with them much.

So I don’t know if I just wasn’t noticing, but 3 of them seemed to develop abdominal enlargement almost overnight. One is particularly bad.

So we immediately started the fenbendazole.

However, I am concerned and paranoid with how quickly their bellies seemed to have grown (I don’t know how fast wormy bellies usually develop because I’ve either wormed them upon intake and it never gets this bad, or they’ve come to me already pot bellied with a bad infestation), and because it seems to be primarily effecting only one of the litters and not the other (younger) 2 from a different litter.

The other day, I twice heard what sounded like someone trying to throw up off in a distance, and with our seniors and such, that means I generally race around the house and room to room to check which cat it is. I never found any vomit, and by the time I got to the kitten room, it had stopped.

The next time it happened I was actually passing the kitten room, so I opened the door but whoever it was had stopped once again.

Realizing it was one of them, and that it might actually be coughing I’m hearing, immediately concerned me and made my stomach drop.

But I thought, well.. could be throwing up dying roundworms, or trying to. So I’ll just keep an eye out for now. That was last night.

I was just cleaning up in there, and the one with the worst belly (Binx) started doing it.

I’m not sure how to discern whether he was coughing, or lurching, as if to throw up. It looked more like coughing to me, but I’m not sure how easy it should be to differentiate. Or if I am entirely overreacting.

Should I give the fenbendazole time to work so they can expel the worms? Since we know they do, in fact, have worms, is it unreasonable to take him in tomorrow to see if there is fluid build up?

It means I will have to take him to the vet I just severed a relationship with, and whose judgement I do not trust, because they’re the only ones who will accept a walk in - but the thought of FIP is is honestly terrifying me right now and it’s making me sick to my stomach just to think about. Surely they are capable of the basics like blood work, X-ray, and fluid extraction.
 

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How are things?

By the way, I apologize if I'm out of line by asking about a specific cat (in the midst of all you have going on!) and I realize I may have missed an important update about this one, but how is Pretty Kitty (PK)?
 
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