Dementia?

pearjas

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Hi everyone,

I have a 17 year old Bombay cat that’s had a rather rough year. The bottom line right now is there have been a lot of visits to the vet, quite a few UTI’s, and some behavior I don’t understand. She is in the 'early stages' of kidney disease as well, but her labs are coming back "good for her age" and have been ruled out as a cause of anything. She is on a special food for kidney health.

My cat’s personality has changed somewhat. She insists on being on my lap and only my lap when downstairs. She doesn’t travel via the stairs very often anymore, but instead stays on one floor for an extended period of time. She lays on odd things – shelves in the dark basement (if the door is open), her cat carrier, litter box, on top of boxes, on top of small objects that look uncomfortable, etc. She used to lay on a bed, or the couch, or somewhere comfortable. Like a cat usually does!

Two times ago when I took her to the vet, they said this could be feline dementia or pain related. Xrays were taken of her back which showed possible arthritis…though that doesn’t really seem to be an issue as she can do everything she normally does (she is just very, very clumsy). It almost seems more emotional than anything. She doesn’t really seem ‘lost’ or get stuck in places it doesn’t seem, but she almost seems like if I am not around, she goes into a depression.

Last night for example, I went to bed upstairs and she was downstairs. She slept in the litter box all night long. When I got up and around, I came downstairs, and now she is on my lap, purring, etc. She is eating, drinking, using the litter box, etc. Does anyone have any clue what’s going on? I’ve been taking her to TWO vets for the last several months. In fact, some say I am taking her too much.
 

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My first guess is stress, rather than dementia, just because both laying in a litter box and in your lap sound like stress relieving behaviors to me.

Your cat has had a lot of vet visits and physical issues, so that may be causing the behavior. At your cat's age, dementia is possible, but stress seems a bit more likely to me, so I'd try and reduce the stress a bit if you can and see how that goes.
 

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My first guess is stress, rather than dementia, just because both laying in a litter box and in your lap sound like stress relieving behaviors to me.

Your cat has had a lot of vet visits and physical issues, so that may be causing the behavior. At your cat's age, dementia is possible, but stress seems a bit more likely to me, so I'd try and reduce the stress a bit if you can and see how that goes.
Hi everyone,

I have a 17 year old Bombay cat that’s had a rather rough year. The bottom line right now is there have been a lot of visits to the vet, quite a few UTI’s, and some behavior I don’t understand. She is in the 'early stages' of kidney disease as well, but her labs are coming back "good for her age" and have been ruled out as a cause of anything. She is on a special food for kidney health.

My cat’s personality has changed somewhat. She insists on being on my lap and only my lap when downstairs. She doesn’t travel via the stairs very often anymore, but instead stays on one floor for an extended period of time. She lays on odd things – shelves in the dark basement (if the door is open), her cat carrier, litter box, on top of boxes, on top of small objects that look uncomfortable, etc. She used to lay on a bed, or the couch, or somewhere comfortable. Like a cat usually does!

Two times ago when I took her to the vet, they said this could be feline dementia or pain related. Xrays were taken of her back which showed possible arthritis…though that doesn’t really seem to be an issue as she can do everything she normally does (she is just very, very clumsy). It almost seems more emotional than anything. She doesn’t really seem ‘lost’ or get stuck in places it doesn’t seem, but she almost seems like if I am not around, she goes into a depression.

Last night for example, I went to bed upstairs and she was downstairs. She slept in the litter box all night long. When I got up and around, I came downstairs, and now she is on my lap, purring, etc. She is eating, drinking, using the litter box, etc. Does anyone have any clue what’s going on? I’ve been taking her to TWO vets for the last several months. In fact, some say I am taking her too much.
Im NOT saying its NOT feline dementia...But its possible it could be STRESS also like sargon sargon SAYS...Cause my cat is 11 yrs n back here several months ago...He got this URI...and one of his eyes got redness around the eye NOT the eyeball itself...but around the n along the same side of his nose...And used antibiotics...it seem to help some...but I was worried what is causing this..Well after a skin scraping..bloodwork....nothing showed up...And a couple more test..n NOTHING....And I kept taking him to the VET...cause I wanted to know what was wrong with my cat....Well the VET finally said we could do more test or just give it awhile n see if it clears up ANY...If it dont...we do the other TEST....I was like WAIT...but im worried ABOUT my cat's eye...n side of his nose...The VET said u bringing him in here this much could be STRESSING him OUT...n making it worse...Still Dont know what it WAS BUT knock on wood....My boy got better as soon as I slowed up on running him n stressing him out to the VET...I was taking him couple times aweek for about a month....So im JUST saying it could be STRESS...making what is wrong WORSE...
 

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Hi. This is going to be long, but I don't know how to shorten it and still get my point across.

Earlier this year, when Feeby (15+ yo) started laying in very unusual places, but she too would be on my lap whenever I was in the recliner. She was eating/drinking/using the litter box fine, but I could tell something was off. She stopped sleeping with me at night, which she had pretty much done all her life. She also was very vocal and would squawk at 'nothing'. I was starting to wonder if she was demonstrating signs of possible dementia.

Turns out she had fleas - first time in her life - and it totally ended up stressing her out to the point of illness. In that time, she had UTI bouts, some loose stools, some unexplained vomiting, and general lethargy. The loose stool and vomiting have never been issues for her before.

Her geriatric blood work (CBC, T4, and a full Chemistry Profile) was done in April, before all of the flea issues started, and then again in July after the onset of the flea fiasco - her readings were all within range, so her blood work didn't set any bells off. However, I will tell you some her readings changed quite a bit from previous test results - even though they were still listed as in the 'normal' range - apparently not so normal for her.

Bottom line, you probably don't have fleas, but your cat is older like mine and I think there is something wrong and, through her behavior, she is telling you. The litter box sleeping is of particular concern, and is usually a red flag that something health wise is not right.

The clumsiness could still be a sign of the arthritis, if she is feeling any achiness/pain from that, it could help explain her behavioral changes. There are things like glucosamine/chondroitin products that work not only to help with arthritis but are also considered beneficial for mental health.

Or, maybe she needs more than just a dietary change to address her kidney issues. If you have a long term history of her blood work ups, compare them to see how she has changed over time. She could be just out of the 'normal' range related to her kidneys now - translating to 'early stage' - but, maybe her initial readings were on the low side to begin with, meaning they are much more elevated for her than just what the range is telling you now.
 

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If the vet identified possible arthritis, that could be the cause. Arthritis hurts. Going up the stairs, walking around, everyday tasks might just be hurting her so she does them less. Her slowing down and being very clumsy tells me it's impacting her more than you think. My boy is on CBD oil for his arthritis (bad break three years ago and now he has arthritis in that leg at just 5). A month ago I switched brands and didn't want any weird interactions. So I stopped one and waited a week before starting the new one. There was a Stark difference in his movement and most notably he was a lot clumsier for that period of time. He didn't act in pain or complain, if I wasn't paying attention and looking for it I might have missed it. But you are describing something very similar to some behaviors he had before starting treatment and when I changed brands.

I've also had a cat who we suspected had feline dementia. And the behavior pattern is different then what you describe. My cat with (suspected) dementia would forget who we were completely. He'd be so scared seeing us sometimes and we would just slowly leave the room so he could calm down or talk to him. He also would seemingly get lost walking around the yard at times. The funny one would be when he seemingly forgot he had just groomed himself and would redo his whole groom seconds after finishing before sleeping (his whole life he had a very specific sequence to grooming like he was OCD).

You are describing a cat who is trying to find something comfortable and a place that is comfortable. Looking in strange places for something that will make her comfortable. Your warm lap, a litter box that conforms to her shape, not going up stairs, it all sounds like comfort driven. Stress as mentioned above or a hidden pain.

I would look into treating her for arthritis and see if anything changes. If it doesn't change you can stop treatment if you don't feel it's worth it. But I'd give it a shot and see if you do see improvement.
 
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pearjas

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Thank you everyone for the responses! Well, I knew there was some kind of stress there, but I thought even perhaps something within her mind could be causing the stress...but I'm obviously no expect. The good news is I am going to start her on arthritis medication soon. Gabepentin (sp?). She was previously given that, and it didn't help, but it made her groggy as well so the vet ordered a smaller dosage. So that is in the works.

It's really hard to describe the year my cat's had. Before this summer, she began staying on only one floor primarily... laying on things like towels in the bathroom, etc...Shortly after, she had a loose tooth that had to be pulled. Then dental surgery later to sew her gums back up. A couple UTI's... For a brief period of time, she began laying on the couch again and all was normal but she quickly went back to her old (or new) way and began laying in odd spots. Her teeth have been cleaned and I've been assured there are no issues there.

I guess the next step it sounds like would be to start her on this medication and see what, if anything changes. She had stopped laying in her litter box until this week...and suddenly she is now doing it again. Very frustrating.
 

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Modern arthritis treatments made my boy very groggy and grumpy which is how I ended up at CBD. I would encourage you to try holistic options (in partnership with your vet or with a holistic vet) if the Gabepentin doesn't work again. It sort of sounds like when other things happened and she was on a pain reliever or anti-inflammatory for that issue it made her feel better in general. Then once the medication for the other wears off fully she reverts. Maybe.... Possibly.... I know with my boy when something else is going on his tolerance for his leg pain is less and it confuses things because he reacts to the leg when exammed more. That's how we figured out he had bad arthritis in the first place actually.
 
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pearjas

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She continues to hide if she cannot be on me... She has also started eating cat litter again. I say again because about a month ago she was like this as well... and she seemed to 'bounce back' after I began feeding her tuna, etc. I have a call in to the vet... but she's definitely not enjoying herself but yet she is functioning.
 
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Update - I have been trying to be more observant to how she is most often. I personally think after going back and forth, that it is dementia but I have yet to get a sure answer from a vet. Here is what I've observed over the past week or two:
-While she has been jumping up onto the bed and the chair that I sit in, she does not usually engage much in movement but this seems more related to possible confusion? than actual pain.
-She will often stay where I put her. She will alternate between scratching, grooming, and staring most frequently. Doesn't seem calm very much. Perhaps a bit confused. But she will just groom, scratch, scratch, stare, and repeat. If she goes anywhere, it will be to the local litter box or food/water bowl (which is a good thing), however she is still munching on her cat litter as a snack and turns away from food sometimes for cat litter.
-When I am in site, she has to be touching me somehow - usually laying on me. If I am holding her and walking around, she is also content. I don't want to assume, but it's almost as if she's forgotten (?) how to surely navigate the house and find me when I'm not there, and stays in one place and only does what she knows or what comes natural (grooming, scratching, etc). I've also noticed she tends to stick her tongue out a lot, licking her lips, and even makes a smacking type of sound sometimes (perhaps with her jaw?) Her mouth has been cleared of any issues as she had dental surgery and a tooth removed as one of the first steps in the process...

She was given a stool softener to make sure constipation/stomach issues weren't to blame, and while I don't believe they are, today is day #2 of the stool softener. I have not completely ruled out pain, but she does things that would indicate the pain isn't super severe...but she's 17, I know there's arthritis there, which has been proven via the xray.

The only other things I can think of are: Another pain medication (the last vet I took her to said Gabapentin isn't a good choice for arthritis but more for neurologic pain). I'm obviously going to continue with the stool softener.
Blood work/labs are possible as a next step as well to see if anything else undetected might be going on.

All I know right now is she functions as a cat, but about as little as it takes to function as a cat. She eats, sleeps (most often when I'm present as that relaxes her), purrs, etc.
 

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Everything you are describing also could be attributable to an illness with or without pain - not wanting to move much, sticking out the tongue/lip licking/smacking sounds (nausea or respiratory/breathing issues, for example - or an undiagnosed dental issue), wanting to be close to her "mother" sort of like a security blanket - same thing kids tend to do with they aren't feeling well.

X-rays of her mouth - just to make sure there isn't something going on underneath the gum area, might be another thing to talk to the vet about when you get the blood work/labs done - since she has had dental issues in the past. And, ask the vet about things you can try for the arthritis that aren't just pain medications. Most pain meds are going to dull her senses, making a determination of dementia even more difficult. And, please ask the vet about her eating cat litter and if that can be tied to dementia - most times it is indicative of some sort of electrolyte/chemical imbalance.

Until the eating litter issue can be resolved, would it be possible to change to non-clumping litter? Clay, clumping litters can cause blockages in the digestive tract which can be lethal.
 
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pearjas

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Well, here are more updates... She is going to the bathroom (definitely established that).
I have some telling me I'm taking her too much and getting recommended to follow up more by others, lol. I agree the eating litter seems to be the biggest concern to me but luckily I do already have non clumping litter..make sure to get that every time especially now. The vet(s) seem to think that all of this - the grooming, staring, neediness, lack of movement, etc is all dementia.

They might even think I am crazy if I ask further questions about the dental. It's been quite a disappointing situation in general as you can imagine especially given I've been taking her to two vets. I started taking her to another, much larger vet because they offered the long lasting antibiotic shot when she had her last UTI. I didn't feel like fighting her with liquid or pills anymore. I've spent about $1,000 to the 'new' vet alone. While I am willing to do anything and everything it takes if it's something that can be helped, it just seems like I have one vet that wants to do tests that do not help (X rays, dental surgery, among others that have already been done and I'm still at square 1). The other vet is much more budget friendly and really the complete opposite.

The one thing I know is something is wrong. She's definitely the same cat, behavior wise... Right now the biggest clue I have is her eating the litter which I can now say is not due to constipation (that is what the vet told me, which is why I've been giving her a stool softener). I am thinking blood work is the next step, again....but what needs to be checked? I am sure you can go from 0-100 when it comes to blood work. I have her kidney levels checked 1-2x a year already. I know she's not diabetic. *Sigh*
 

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If you have not had a full senior blood panel (CBC and complete Chemistry Profile), that is where I would start. Here are all the elements in these blood tests and what is being looked at (see link below - there are other similar articles, perhaps more comprehensive, on the internet if you would like to search and look at more than one). These tests may have already been done if you have her kidney levels checked regularly and know her T4 levels. If previous CBCs and Chemistry Profiles have been done, they need to be compared very carefully. A reading can come out in the 'normal' range but still be too high or too low for how your cat has traditionally tested previously. So, normal readings are only as good as how they compare to previous readings. Anything that comes out 'unusual' is what would determine other tests the vet may want to run.

Also, putting the dementia aside for just one minute - ask the vet what kind of chemical/nutritional deficiency might incline a cat to eat litter, and then test accordingly.

I would also still pursue some other treatment options for arthritis besides pain meds. Pain meds, as I said before, could be attributing to her behavior.

Sometimes, a lot of tests that you might consider unnecessary have to be done to get to the bottom of a problem - unfortunately, this is needed many times because a cat cannot talk to us to help with diagnosis.

I started taking her to another, much larger vet because they offered the long lasting antibiotic shot when she had her last UTI. I didn't feel like fighting her with liquid or pills anymore.
The problem with this approach is that if the antibiotic is not the most effective for her type of UTI, you can give her a shot over and over again and not completely eradicate the infection - it helps for a while, but the infection never actually goes away completely because it is never taken care of appropriately. Just make sure a urine culture has been done to confirm what the most effective antibiotics are for her specific infection - and if one that comes out on the culture doesn't work, another may have to be tried. If any of the antibiotics turn out to be something other than an injection, ask the vet about working with a pharmacy that can compound the meds, to make them taste better or even some that can be prepared in a transdermal form and applied to a cat's ear, for example.

Perhaps you should take a video of her behaviors and share that with the vet, just so they can see what you see.
 

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pearjas

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Here's an update. She was diagnosed with anemia after blood work (explains her eating cat litter). She also had fleas, for the first time ever. The vet said the fleas could even be contributing to the anemia. She was given a couple shots, one which was vitamin K. She was given a pill that's supposed to kill all fleas on her within 24 hours and was treated with Frontline. I'm attaching her lab results. She was also given a shot just in case she had tapeworm as the labs showed she either had allergies or was fighting a parasite but I don't see how that could be..but you never know.

Unfortunately, she has been sleeping since that appointment Wednesday morning. She seems slightly less active than before. She gets up occasionally and walks to her litter box but then returns to the same shelf on my kitchen to sleep. She responds to me and she will get up, etc.. I just fed her some tuna to make sure she had an appetite for anything.
 

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Here's an update. She was diagnosed with anemia after blood work (explains her eating cat litter). She also had fleas, for the first time ever. The vet said the fleas could even be contributing to the anemia. She was given a couple shots, one which was vitamin K. She was given a pill that's supposed to kill all fleas on her within 24 hours and was treated with Frontline. I'm attaching her lab results. She was also given a shot just in case she had tapeworm as the labs showed she either had allergies or was fighting a parasite but I don't see how that could be..but you never know.

Unfortunately, she has been sleeping since that appointment Wednesday morning. She seems slightly less active than before. She gets up occasionally and walks to her litter box but then returns to the same shelf on my kitchen to sleep. She responds to me and she will get up, etc.. I just fed her some tuna to make sure she had an appetite for anything.
Just a couple of thoughts. Do you have a flea comb for cats that you can comb her with to see whether or not she still has fleas?
I use only Advantage topical when necessary -- it's the one I trust most.
Canned pumpkin WITHOUT any spices is recommended by many experts and cat lovers for constipation or diarrhea (yes, you read that right). Mix a spoonful or two into your cat's wet food. It's harmless, affordable, and works in a lot of cases, so I've heard.
My 16-year-old torti seems like she is having some age-related issues, as she sometimes yells in the hallway like she isn't sure where she is. There's only one story here, so we don't have stairs as a problem. I talk to her to let her know where I am. Sometimes she yells when she's right next to me. She seems to be okay in terms of vision and hearing, so I'm thinking it's possibly dementia. She eats and eliminates normally, plays a little from time to time, and jumps up on the bed. Her diet is varied, high quality wet food 3x a day (1 5.5 oz. tin per day) and a few dental or hairball Greenies before bedtime. She has high quality dry food available free choice and will sometimes have a few pieces.
 

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The low red blood cell counts in the blood results are related to the anemia. Is there any plan to treat this condition, or is the vet assuming it will correct itself once the fleas are gone?

Also, what is the Vitamin K for - I don't see anything in the blood work to suggest what the Vit K is supposed to be treating? And, do you have any idea what the other shot was for?

What did the vet say about the high BUN level? That is usually related to some form of kidney/renal issue.

The high EOS level (part of the white blood cell counts) is where the vet is suggesting it might be related to a parasite or allergy. So, I am guessing they went with trying to treat for a parasite? How will that be followed up on, in case it isn't related to parasites?

Anemia can cause lethargy. But, if she seems more lethargic than before the vet visit, you might want to contact the vet and see if any of the meds she was given could be attributing to her being less active.

If you don't know the answers to the questions I asked, that is another reason to call the vet and find out, so you can better understand what is happening to her.

Hopefully she is eating and drinking OK?
 
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Hi there. Her behavior has changed a bit since going to the vet Wednesday morning. She is now limiting herself (98% at least) to a small 6x6 area of the house in the kitchen that has a shelf she's been laying on. I have even moved an extra food and water bowl over there, which has got her to eating her food again and drinking water. Previously, she seemed to have no interest in food other than tuna. I still have her litter box where it's always been and she continues to use it, just not very often as she's not eating/drinking a whole lot...but she is definitely eating and drinking though. She even runs/gallops back over to this area every time she has to leave the area for any reason (such as going to her litter box).

I have a follow up appointment this coming Saturday. I called the vet yesterday (this past Saturday) and they said about the only other thing they could do was prescribe Prednisone, which was disappointing. I still haven't determined if the fleas are gone yet but I will. She is functioning as a cat, but she isn't doing very much....

My thoughts, which are obviously irrelevant, are this right now:
-There's possibly still some feline dementia here, but it's hard to say.
-I think the fleas are definitely an issue, as she's never had them before and I will soon determine if she's flea free..
-She seems to take a turn for the BETTER after I start her on a milk/tuna diet..so I wonder if maybe it's her food, but she's been on this food for a number of years (Hills KD for kidney issues).
-Obviously, the anemia needs to be followed up on also and could explain a lot.

As far as followup the vet is going to do, about anything, I guess I'll find out Saturday. =-/
 

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Hi there. Her behavior has changed a bit since going to the vet Wednesday morning. She is now limiting herself (98% at least) to a small 6x6 area of the house in the kitchen that has a shelf she's been laying on. I have even moved an extra food and water bowl over there, which has got her to eating her food again and drinking water. Previously, she seemed to have no interest in food other than tuna. I still have her litter box where it's always been and she continues to use it, just not very often as she's not eating/drinking a whole lot...but she is definitely eating and drinking though. She even runs/gallops back over to this area every time she has to leave the area for any reason (such as going to her litter box).

I have a follow up appointment this coming Saturday. I called the vet yesterday (this past Saturday) and they said about the only other thing they could do was prescribe Prednisone, which was disappointing. I still haven't determined if the fleas are gone yet but I will. She is functioning as a cat, but she isn't doing very much....

My thoughts, which are obviously irrelevant, are this right now:
-There's possibly still some feline dementia here, but it's hard to say.
-I think the fleas are definitely an issue, as she's never had them before and I will soon determine if she's flea free..
-She seems to take a turn for the BETTER after I start her on a milk/tuna diet..so I wonder if maybe it's her food, but she's been on this food for a number of years (Hills KD for kidney issues).
-Obviously, the anemia needs to be followed up on also and could explain a lot.

As far as followup the vet is going to do, about anything, I guess I'll find out Saturday. =-/
Personally, I do not like/will not buy Hill's Science Diet products. I do not think their quality is sufficient. Milk is not well tolerated by many cats, as it can cause diarrhea and is not well digested by anyone except baby cows/the mammals' babies whose milk they are supposed to drink as infants. Even the specially formulated milk for cats has not been well tolerated by my cats, so I quit buying it a long time ago. A diet of (cat food only) tuna is not really the greatest -- it's fine for occasional feeding, but cats need a more varied diet. Poultry (chicken, turkey) and some red meats in high quality wet cat foods are good. I feed fish cat foods such as salmon, tilapia, and tuna as well, but not exclusively. Have you tried the Gerber second stages (small round jars) baby foods (chicken, turkey, lamb, beef -- NO pork products) foods for her, and/or supplement such as Clinicare for her? You can ask her vet about this last when you consult with him/her. As for fleas, a flea comb may be helpful, and/or a topical (I only trust Advantage) if she is able to have this, will be helpful with those. It's essential to get rid of the fleas A/O as they exacerbate anemia.
You may also ask her vet if she needs fluid therapy, and how to administer it at home. Many cats with kidney issues are helped by sub-Q fluids (Ringers solution) and your vet can teach you how to give at home. If this occurs, I can explain my successful method of giving it.
 
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I've been looking for perhaps another food for kidney disease. It seems Hill's is the easiest to find but I don't want to buy something that is either going to make her worse or be a mistake. I will look into the Gerber food. She is still staying to a certain area of my kitchen, but she is going to the bathroom and eating, drinking, etc...but then just almost running back to 'her place'. She did lay on my lap a few times today also.

I've never had fleas, but I did find where they are... upstairs and mainly in my upstairs bathroom (she is staying downstairs). First battle with the fleas is tonight!!

I appreciate all the input. Will keep everyone up to date.
 

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I've been looking for perhaps another food for kidney disease. It seems Hill's is the easiest to find but I don't want to buy something that is either going to make her worse or be a mistake. I will look into the Gerber food. She is still staying to a certain area of my kitchen, but she is going to the bathroom and eating, drinking, etc...but then just almost running back to 'her place'. She did lay on my lap a few times today also.

I've never had fleas, but I did find where they are... upstairs and mainly in my upstairs bathroom (she is staying downstairs). First battle with the fleas is tonight!!

I appreciate all the input. Will keep everyone up to date.
If you have a way to keep her out of the areas where the fleas are, you can use a "flea bomb" to fumigate these areas and follow instructions as to when you and she can safely enter those areas again. Or, if the areas are carpeted, you can use something like FleaBusters, which is a borax powder you sprinkle on the carpet and work in with a broom, then vacuum. It is very effective and safe used as directed. It destroys the different stages of fleas. I don't know your location but you can always look FleaBusters up online to see if you can order it delivered, or find it locally.
About the food, you have to get what is available to you, of course. Hill's is heavily prescribed/sold by vets, but there are other brands formulated for kidney issues, so you might want to ask what else is recommended by her vet. I did not feed any special formula food but I do buy only high quality wet foods (and dry, for snack) and I learned from our vet how to administer sub-Q (Ringers solution) which was extremely helpful to our little girl who had kidney failure.
 
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pearjas

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She seems to be doing better. She went to the vet on Saturday and they gave her another shot. She is doing things she's not done in a while - begging for food, moving around a bit more, laying next to the vents, etc...so it's been a nice change. I am getting Fleabusters delivered today! I have not taken her upstairs at all given that's where the fleas are.

The only negative is she is twitching (facial twitches mainly) which is not new but the severity seems to come and go.
 
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