Decreased senior appetite, normals labs & imaging

cataholic07

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Glad to hear she is doing well :) For IBD you can not give dry food at all, and should only feed carrageenan free wet food. Cats dont tend to be feeling the best if they have it so they can be pickier then normal. I always suggest having 3-4 brands and different flavors on stock and rotate accordingly. If a cat feels sick and eats something they can associate that food with feeling sick and wont want it for awhile (especially if they vomit). Pretty much like people lol.
 
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sidneykitty

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Well... things have gone downhill after finishing her course of cisapride. Yesterday I could barely get her to eat any wet food at all and she's been hiding under the bed for longer periods again.

Good news is - she pooped this morning and I was able to get the fresh sample in for them to test her gut flora.

She also has vitamin D insufficiency. I'm not sure what it may mean as I only saw it on my invoice as a Diagnosis, but I am sure the vet will discuss the next time we talk.

cataholic07 cataholic07 - she has not been diagnosed with IBD (inflammatory bowel disorder), but IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) so two different things. Its possible I guess for her to have IBD, but she really doesn't have many of the symptoms.

I heartily agree that wet food is best for all cats (not just those with IBD) but unfortunately after years of trying, I have been unable to get Amber on 100% wet diet and not sure I ever will after trying just about everything, but I appreciate your input all the same. I consider it an achievement that I got her to eat 1/2 can a day for a while before all this began, which I had hoped to slowly increase but now we have other problems to worry about.
 
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sidneykitty

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Well... things have gone downhill after finishing her course of cisapride. Yesterday I could barely get her to eat any wet food at all and she's been hiding under the bed for longer periods again.

Good news is - she pooped this morning and I was able to get the fresh sample in for them to test her gut flora.

She also has vitamin D insufficiency. I'm not sure what it may mean as I only saw it on my invoice as a Diagnosis, but I am sure the vet will discuss the next time we talk.

cataholic07 cataholic07 - she has not been diagnosed with IBD (inflammatory bowel disorder), but IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) so two different things. Its possible I guess for her to have IBD, but she really doesn't have many of the symptoms.

I heartily agree that wet food is best for all cats (not just those with IBD) but unfortunately after years of trying, I have been unable to get Amber on 100% wet diet and not sure I ever will after trying just about everything, but I appreciate your input all the same. I consider it an achievement that I got her to eat 1/2 can a day for a while before all this began, which I had hoped to slowly increase but now we have other problems to worry about.
 

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If your vet ok's this, try syringe feeding, without giving her the option of being able to walk away. Or use a popsicle stick and gently shovel a little bit of food into her mouth like I do for my Poppycat :).
 

mrsgreenjeens

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I didn't realize it was a "course" of cisapride. since that is a motility drug, I sort of figured if it helped, she would just be on it "forever". And perhaps since she's gone downhill since ending it, she will be. It's interesting that the Vet did not discuss the Vit. D. deficiency with you at your last visit, if it was listed on the invoice. Should definitely be addressed. So, is she continuing to eat her DRY food? What dry food are you feeding? Not sure if Feline only Vets are more versed in nutrition or not, but have you discussed diet at all with them? (and the fact that she is adverse to wet food). Maybe they can recommend a dry food that is better for her issues. I'm not thinking a prescription food, but there are some out there that are actually pretty low carb now. Not sure how pallitable they are though!
 
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sidneykitty

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Thanks Furballsmom Furballsmom ! I am a bit nervous to try anything like that. Weeks ago when she was not eating her wet food, I did try using my finger to place some in her lips, and she just got mad at me, ran away and hid. I'm worried that between that and my stress about it and continually plopping food bowls down in front of her to encourage her to eat (which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't) that she's going to end up with a food-stress complex. Maybe not but I'm worried about how she would hold it against me. :(

mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens - Yes. The idea was to put her on it and "boost" her system back into moving again with the hope that the probiotics would eventually be enough to help get things moving.
I think she did not mention it (vitD results) before because I remember her saying it took a few weeks to run at the lab, so I was expecting it to take some time to get that back.
I can't find much info online about vitamin D deficiencies or even what a normal level for a cat is.
I did discuss diet with the vet previously. We both agree we want her to eat more wet food, cooked meat occasionally and a higher-quality dry food if she has to eat dry. She also recommended to stop feeding her fish and feed more chicken.

For the last 1.5 years she has had Royal Canin GI Fiber Response dry food. This was to help constipation. I got some Instinct Ultimate Protein Grain-Free to try her on and I've been spooning some in with the other stuff, but much of the time she tends to eat all the other kibbles around it. I'm still mixing it in though and hoping she might accept it eventually over time. I think that way back when before we adopted her 4.5 years ago, she ate Taste of the Wild.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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Is she doing any better, or not? When is your next discussion with your Vet?
 
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sidneykitty

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She is doing ok... a wee bit better I would say. Last night, I left out some wet food next to her dry which is usually left out overnight and again she left the Instinct kibbles, but ate some of the wet overnight.

But today, she hasn't been much interested in her wet food though I was able to give her a small serving of Applaws tuna with all her supplements in it, so at least there's that.

I will talk to the vet whenever she calls me again with results from the poop test. They are aware of her decreased appetite and symptoms as I told the person who took the poop from me.

It is my wish that I could just find ONE wet food that she would just love and eat all the time. It used to be Fancy Feast beef pate, but that hasn't been a "go" since April... the worst part is the last few days she won't even eat cooked chicken which is normally my go-to when she gets like this.
 
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sidneykitty

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Last night, she finally ate some wet food at 9pm, almost 1/2 a Fancy Feast Naturals Salmon can. She wouldn't touch the turkey yesterday.

I thought I would try to leave more wet food and less dry food out last night again just to try. I left even less kibble. Again, she left the Instinct and ate the fiber. She ate some of the wet food. And she had a good poop overnight.

Now today, she has no interest in eating wet food. Its the same stuff she ate last night. I've topped it with tuna and she only licks off the tuna. If I keep setting it down in front of her periodically she eventually hides from me. A couple of times, she will lick for a while but when I look at the bowl it doesn't even look like she's actually eaten anything.

My partner tells me to be patient, but I tell him - how long can I be patient until she starves herself into hepatic lipadosis? Yesterday, she probably ate almost one can in the course of 24 hours, which is approx. 90 calories plus a little dry food. By my calculations, she should be eating 20 calories x 8 lbs = 160 calories minimum. Technically she is 8.5 lbs.

I find myself faced with - is it better to feed her non-fish dry food with some wet food or is it better to eat fish wet food than no wet food?
Because right now she will mostly only eat fish wet foods though occasionally she'll eat turkey. She won't touch chicken or beef unless its Weruva Paw Lickin' Chicken (commonly she just licks the gravy and leaves the meat) or home cooked chicken (though not lately).

This is what I go through every single time I try to up her wet food intake until I decide well she's almost 16, just let her be, let her eat what she wants and keep feeding her kibble. But I feel frustrated like when I do that I'm not taking the best care of her that I can, even though I've tried so many different things. Or I wonder if I am making things worse by trying to change her diet?

I do wonder if the Fiber food is causing issues with too much fiber. From what I read it looks like too much fiber can cause stasis? In which case, I need to get her eating all wet food or wet food + a better dry food, which is currently not going well since she won't eat the new Instinct kibbles.

As far as today goes, I feel like I can go open 3-4 more cans of food until she will eat one; feed her kibble; keep waiting to see if she eats. I just feel so frustrated again.
 
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mrsgreenjeens

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I hear you and completely understand your frustration about what to do. You just want Amber to feel good. I get it, honest I do. So I'm guessing maybe the Fiber Response is causing issues, possibly even just gas, which can be excruciating at times. (Did you ever find out what that bunching up was in the ultra sound, BTW?) So what was Amber eating prior to the Fiber Response, and did she go on that because of her constipation issue about a year ago? Does she drink much water? Does she have a fountain or like to drink from a faucet? Just wondering what her water intake is like. Have you tried those pouches of food vs. canned? They usually have a lot more liquid than cans. Since you're saying she is mainly licking the juice, maybe she'd go for them. I know even my picky eaters will usually gobble up the juice from those things.

What I'm thinking is transition her back to a dry food that you know she likes (I can't believe I am even saying this!), then add in pouches of wet food that have plenty of liquid to make sure she gets well hydrated. Give her Miralax everyday to keep her regular and see what happens. With your Vet's approval, of course. And continue with any and all meds. And ask why your Vet wants her off fish. Do they think fish is bothering her tummy? If so, any specific fish? Say, salt water vs fresh water? Maybe she could have tilapia, cat fish and/or trout, but not tuna or salmon?
 
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sidneykitty

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Thanks... sometimes I just need to let the thoughts out and then I feel better. You're right its because I want her to be healthy and happy. Since I feel responsible for those things, I worry.

I really appreciate your thoughts and help. When I get too busy being worried about her, my ability to be logical flies out the window!

The bunching was on her x-ray and it was gas buildup. Her ultrasound came out normal.

Prior to Fiber Response, <Edit: in between Hill's j/d and Fiber food she also ate Open Farms Lamb dry food when we thought she had IBD in 2019 and were trying novel proteins> , she ate Hill's j/d dry food and a wide variety of wet foods, mostly Weruva.
Before the Hill's j/d, I think she ate Petcurean Now Fresh kibble and way before that (Before we adopted her), Taste of the Wild.
Yes - she started on Fiber for constipation.

She definitely drinks water and I think she drinks enough. She has 3 bowls around the house. Never shown interest in faucets. When I brought her the last few times they have remarked that she is NOT dehydrated. This, in conjunction to her stools being a good consistency when they do come (once in a while she has dry turds), they don't think hydration is related to her constipation. I believe this is part of the reasoning the vet thought it is a motility issue and started the Cisapride for that.

The vet basically said about motility that if she feels full, she won't want to eat and won't have an appetite. That makes a lot of sense to me. And I wonder if fiber food is contributing to the full feeling as well as the gas.

I had some pouches way back in April/May when she was recovering from her bupe and I have a few left from that. I can try to give her those, but she'll just lick the liquid and leave the rest.

I think you're right about getting her back on a dry and giving some wet for now. I just ordered some Go! Turkey, Duck and Chicken dry food to try her on. I can pick it up tomorrow. And I can get more Open Farms Lamb if she will be agreeable to eating it again.

The vet wanted her off fish because she thought it may be causing an inflammatory response, mainly due to the dark goop that is accumulating at the beds of her nails. <Edit: but I'm going to swap her litter from clay to wheat in case that has to do with it? just as an experiment.> Interesting point about fresh vs. salt water though, I never thought about that! Thanks!

While she didn't want to eat today, she also didn't hide under the bed. This is more evidence pointing toward my observation that she is in pain after eating because she hides under the bed after eating. Right now, she's finally eating some Fancy Feast Cod, Sole and Shrimp (not my favorite food to give her, but.... she needs to eat) after turning down Salmon wet food and Instinct dry food.
 
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sidneykitty

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Yesterday, she ate a few spoonfuls of wet food and 1/4 cup of kibble.

This morning, she threw up brown liquid and hair. No poop this AM but I wouldn't expect it given how little she ate yesterday.

This morning I couldn't get her to eat tuna or baby food containing her supplements. Finally I placed some tuna in her mouth on her tongue and then placed the bowl in front of her and she finally ate some. I hate doing that and she hates me doing it and I don't quite understand why she then decided to eat.

Still no word from vet and she is getting progressively worse each day...I am going to have to call them and ask what is up. This gut flora test cannot possibly take four days. Should we put her back on cisapride given the amazing results we had with it? Its hard and frustarting to watch her decline after she was doing so well.
 
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sidneykitty

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Picked up the Petcurean Go! Carnivore Turkey, Duck and Chicken kibble this AM. Since she didn't want to eat much wet food this morning I offered her a little of the new kibble to get her eating something, and she dug in right away. "Mom, I think I'll eat this stuff!" she said and then didn't hide under the bed.

Now let's hope it continues... :crossfingers:
 

daftcat75

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Have you considered an appetite stimulant?

I'm thinking the dry food could be causing inflammation and with it constipation. Perhaps a tasty wet food and an appetite stimulant could get her off the kibble.

Has she had an ultrasound and/or the pancreatitis blood test (fPLI)?
 
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sidneykitty

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Its possible that could help. I think the cisapride did wonders and she turned downhill as soon as she finished it up. I think she really needs some motility assistance. I understand not having an appetite if you feel full/your digestion is not moving as fast as it should be.

Ultrasound was done - normal except for benign liver cyst
fPLI was negative
 

daftcat75

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Its possible that could help. I think the cisapride did wonders and she turned downhill as soon as she finished it up. I think she really needs some motility assistance. I understand not having an appetite if you feel full/your digestion is not moving as fast as it should be.

Ultrasound was done - normal except for benign liver cyst
fPLI was negative
Well that's good news that the ultrasound was clear. It's still possible the dry is stopping her up. But at least it hasn't risen to the level of intestinal inflammation. Can she go back on the cisapride or is that not recommended for long-term use?

In the meantime, if you think she needs a little help in the motility department, you can try either egg yolk, egg yolk powder, or egg yolk lecithin supplements. I would try a half to 1 teaspoon (depending on how stopped up you think she is) of egg yolk. Once a day to start until you know how it affects her. (Egg yolk can be Liquid Plummer for cats if you give too much.) If that works for her, you can switch to egg yolk powder as it's such a small amount of yolk to crack an egg just for her. You can also try the egg yolk (not soy) lecithin supplements. Though I have no idea what the dose would be for this as egg yolk has always been plenty powerful enough for Krista.

Although this article talks about hairballs, it also talks about egg yolk and lecithin for motility issues. It includes a recipe for making your own egg yolk powder or a link for buying theirs.
How Best to Manage Hairballs
 

mrsgreenjeens

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I would definitely call the Vet and ask if you can restart the cisapride. While you're at it, mention the vomiting brown liquid with hair in it. Sounds to me like she may have a hairball stuck somewhere down the line, and THAT could be causing some issues. Certainly might be one reason why she wasn't eating. Doesn't explain why she is suddenly eating the new food (yay!), but maybe she was able to expel it somewhere and you just haven't stepped in it yet :barfgreen:

When my guys have a hairball that needs to come out, I use Vet's Best Hairball Relief Digestive Aid. Makes them toss it up the same day. Actually, if I give them one of these every single day, but if I miss a day, then my longish haired guy will surely hack one up. But in the past, i wasn't so good at giving them daily and when I remembered to do it, those days would always bring one up, if that makes sense. 'Course, it may depend on where in the digestive tract it is, if there even IS one!
 
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sidneykitty

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daftcat75 daftcat75 - yes indeed! Before the u/s, they were thinking the worst (cancer).

I believe she could go on cisapride, but I haven't discussed with vet yet. Prior to cisapride, she did get egg yolk powder in her food (on your recommendation actually) and since finishing cisapride, she has been getting egg yolk again (well when she eats the food with it in it at any rate).

mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens - could well be! I'll call tomorrow since I never heard today (I was trying to be patient with them). She has not historically had hariball issues, only having them every so often, but it could be. I thought after she threw up the hair she might have an appetite if it emptied her stomach, but that hasn't happened.

I have some hairball remedy (the stick goop stuff) and she doesn't like it but maybe I'll stick some on her paw to lick off anyway.

Here's how tonight went:
"Mom do I smell new cans of Applaws tuna?" (one of last-call go-to's to get her to eat)
"yes, Amber"
"did the Dr say no fish?"
"Yes Amber"
"Can I have some anyway?"
"I can't say no to that face if you'll eat something!"
Amber: nomnom, eats tuna.
 

daftcat75

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I’d rather she didn’t eat fish because it’s inflammatory. But I’d rather she eat than not eat. Something I’ve done with Krista is mix a Tiki Cat tuna can with a Rawz rabbit can. You’d think rabbit and tuna don’t mix. But you tell her that. Maybe you can find something similar with Amber where you mix a Tiki Cat tuna flavor (Krista’s favorite is Tiki Cat Grill Ahi Tuna) with a Fancy Feast or something else you want her to eat instead.
 
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