Day-Old Abandoned Litter of Five

[dustytiger]

He said he was going to feed them his own special formula and that he would give me some as well to take home and feed them with. I don't know what's in it. He showed it to me but it's just a bag of beige powder. That's it, a clear bag of beige powder, not a word on it. He said it's specifically for baby animals in this condition and that it'll help them get back on the right track.

Do you think I should take a chance on it, or start gathering ingredients anyway? I could pretty easily get the Karo/corn syrup for the last one, as well as the evaporated milk. I already got some liquid vitamins for pets which I got from the vet.

 

[catwoman707]

Oh boy that's a tough one to answer............

I just don't know, he did say that it was for baby animals in this condition, which tells me not specifically for kittens, which the other homemade recipes are, so I guess I just answered what I would do, if you are able to get the ingredients to make it, I would trust in that over an unknown formula.

He's probably right about what it is, but kittens have VERY specific needs, and the formula recipe can be used longer term, at least until your kmr arrives, then we will gradually switch them over to that.

Don't want to give them any more setbacks, so no sudden switches.

 

[catwoman707]

Just wanted to add, it is 11pm here now so I'm headed to bed but will check back in the am.

Hoping for at least decent news

 

[dustytiger]

Yeah, I should probably turn in, too. It's 2PM, but I haven't slept all night, so I'd best rest up a bit. I'll try and get the rest of the ingredients for the kitten formula on my way to the vet later. Hopefully I'll be able to find them, but if I can't I think I'll be forced to use his. I remember now that he actually said it's for puppies as well as kittens, rather than all animals in general, but that still means that it might  not be the very best for cats, I suppose. Still, we're kind of in a pinch until the KMR arrives or until I manage to get my hands on some.

Thank you as well as everyone who's been so kind, helpful and supportive to me! I really appreciate everything you've all done!

I'll keep you all updated as to any developments. 

 

[StefanZ]

 
FPV? That's panleukopenia. 

I don't see this, I see they are having a difficult time with the formulas and the switching them.

Really, I don't see them having panleuk.

I think this is a guess by the vet because they won't eat and have diarrhea. This does not follow the signs of panleuk, they would be very lethargic and vomiting anytime something goes in to their bodies.

It's not the problem imo.

He will hydrate them, but the fact remains, you do not have appropriate formula for them, and they are SO darn young, they must start getting food now. The vet is not feeding them is he?

They're not going to make it much longer without nutrition and calories............

I feel you! VERY stressful.

If I were you I would use this time to gather up the ingredients needed to make formula for them, prepare it, and as soon as you have, go get them and start feeding them again.

The time with nothing except fluids should help their tummies settle down and lose some of the gas in them. (gas is formed by having a difficult time digesting, which happens simply from switching up formulas, and inappropriate formula) however they are still critical, malnourished, literally starving to death. 

Baby kittens digest what they consume in 2 hours, which is why they need to be fed every 2 hours, they have no reserves at all.

Gosh you are trying so hard but are so limited, how awful.

Let him get them all well hydrated, then get them home asap and start feeding them again, as much and as often as possible so you don't lose them.

At this point it can go either way until they eat for a full day well and gain again every day.

They would have been doing just fine now if there was kmr there.

How sad

What about returing to this treat milk, but with yolk added?  We know the basic ingredients are there, and with the yolk thrown in, could be an OK glop. Perhaps also some other of ingredients DustyTiger manage to gather.

 

[dustytiger]

Tbh, I bought the rest of the stuff needed for the kitten formula but... I think I might stick with the vet's for a while. It seems to have worked some kind of miracle on them. Their diarrhea is almost gone--it's not watery anymore, it's more like tooth paste-- they're all bright-eyed and energetic, and he's already been feeding them it all day and they appear to have adjusted to it very well. I feel like it's been ages since I saw them all so eager and vocal... Even though I'm pretty sure it's just been a day.

Also, when I asked him about what was in it and if it was really suitable for kittens, he said not to worry, held it in my hand, looked me in the eye and said "Use it." and I've been thoroughly intimidated into actually using it.

Seriously, though, I think it might be a good option until the KMR I ordered arrives--or I find it in one of the shops. I got an ad in the paper today about a new pet store that's opened up in my sister's city, so she said she's going to check it out for any of the KMR. If she finds it, she'll probably be able to bring it to me by Monday when she visits. 

On an unrelated note, when I got there to pick them up, I was so happy to see them all meowing and wriggling and walking around that I kind of teared up in relief (because I was legit scared one of them would die.) and then the vet's assistant patted me on the head the same way I've seen him do to comfort dogs. I dunno, I just thought that was kinda funny. He's got some crazy soothing magic going on, though!

 

[StefanZ]

Wonderful news, and apparently also - a wonderful vet.  A little oldfashioned, the type of the auktoritarian but kind doc of  the now bygone generation.

An answer to our prayers, if you want so.

The Miracle has happened again.   (The first miracle was YOU finding them, and giving them your all).

Yes, proceed so.

I only hope the vet will give us the recipe, or at least, sell it to others....

Warm hugs!

 

[reba]

Wow that's just such awesome news!!!  They have an amazing will to live yes. 

 

[zemari]

Wow - I have no idea how you are coping but so glad you took these little ones in

 

[dustytiger]

@StefanZ,

Thank you for your support! Honestly, you and everyone on here have been part of the miracle as well! I couldn't have possibly done it without everyone on here.

@Reba,

They really do! It makes me so happy to see them bounce back like that!

@Zemari,

Haha, I seem a lot calmer in my posts, honestly, but I've already had a lot of freak outs and fights with people!

Just the other day someone I know said "Wow, these kittens are so much trouble! You should have left them there for someone else to take care of." and I got REALLY angry and replied with, "Your wife should have left you under a bench for someone else to take care of." and now him AND his wife aren't talking to me. 

 

[reba]

I'm not surprised people are unsympathetic, unless they've lived through it they haven't got a clue.  You can always diffuse those comments with a question:

"Wow, these kittens are so much trouble! You should have left them there for someone else to take care of."

You:  "What makes you think someone else would have taken care of them."

They:  Reply with some BS Answer or some other variation on why you shouldn't be doing this.

You:  "Oh."

Then drop it.  It's draining enough doing this without taking care of other people's insecurities about why you're doing it. 

My parents were very negative when I took in the kittens.  It's lucky I'm not a more passive person or I wouldn't have tried to save them.  At any rate, it's all hot air, within a few months they were driving three hours to help me and my Dad would run into the kitten room first thing when they got here.  And guess who has the mother and father cat strays now - and they adore them both.  So you know, in one ear and out the other when it comes to hand reared kitten critiques.

 

[dustytiger]

Tbh, being a rather hot-tempered person, I kind of enjoy the arguments a little because it usually gives me the chance to tear into somebody for being terrible, and it's almost like a bit of stress-relief. I try to stay positive and chill most of the time, but it takes a lot of effort considering my first impulse is to get really angry so when I'm put into a situation where I feel like I can get angry without guilt I will SO pounce on that. I've actually had very similar conversations go quite a few ways like,

Them: Why would you put so much effort saving kittens when it's so much work?

Me: You have to be the change you want to see in the world. I want a world where kittens in trouble don't get left on the streets.

Them: That's cute 'n all, but seriously, I think cats are pointless and you're putting wayyyy too much work into them.

Me: I think you're pretty pointless, but you don't see me talking to your mother about how much work she's wasted on you.

then there was,

Them: I don't see why you have to take care of them. Just try and find someone else to do it. Or you could leave them somewhere like the previous owner did.

Me: I wish I could have recorded that so I could play it back to you and you could hear  the exact moment you were dead to me.

.....It just hit me that I've probably burned a lot of bridges this past week.

It was fun, though! 

 

 

[keyes]

@DustyTiger   Ok, I admit it, I teared up when I read your post about the kittens turn around.  And then I read your replies to some of the comments that you've gotten about your kitten care and LOL.  I know I've gotten thoughtless comments about taking care of the woodbabies and sometimes you just wonder about what kind of person are they really.  Sending healing thoughts your way.

 

[catwoman707]

@DustyTiger  this is such a huge relief to see on this Valentine's Day! 

I have to say, I adore your spunk and drive to save these little kids!!  

  

Through the years of rescue, I have heard MANY times from so many people, when they see what I sacrifice along the way, how consuming it is, how heartbreaking it can be, the stress, loss of sleep, neglect the things I shouldn't, making it my priority in life basically, which most (normal) people will never quite understand, and that's OKAY!!

They will also never know the feeling of fulfillment, accomplishment, and sheer joy, how proud we are when our efforts pay off, and despite the odds, pull them through and see them blossom like a beautiful flower, we not only have saved them, given them life, health, and future, but that person or family who adopts them will love them and have a companion for many, many years. Filling a space in their heart, adding so much to memories as a part of events and the ups and downs in life.

I know how my Krissy and Simone have done this for me.

All the smiles and love, and unrelentless comfort and companionship I have from them. 

I always believe with my whole heart that you can clearly judge a person by the way they treat animals. What could be truer than that....

Enough of that.

The difference you saw in the babies when you took them, to when you picked them up is the effects of dehydration, which is lethargy. So now you know what that looks like.

Lack of spunk and activity, not alert, sluggish, sleeping excessively.

Once dehydrated there is not alot of time before they will suffer permanent damage/death when they are this small.

So I think it's safe to say that the powder the vet gave you will be fine until the kmr arrives. At least we know it will sustain them, even if it doesn't have the full amt of nutrition specifically made for kittens, for the time being is okay.

Now lets see their weight and get them back on track!! 

 

[anne with cats]

That recipe with the Karo syrup brought back memories from 50 years ago! No internet, not much information to make formulas. We raised 5 kittens on that stuff. 3 made it, but 2 didn't because we didn't know about the potty stimulation thing. I admire you! I raised a 7-10 day old kitten a few years ago. It was a lot of work, especially since I was still working. Stewart made it, then walked out of my life a 9 months old. He was neutered etc. Just decided he didn't want to come in that night. Good luck, that's a lot of babies to keep an eye on!

 

[dustytiger]

@keyes, 

Thank you! They can use all the healing thoughts they can get!

@catwoman707,

Not gonna lie, your post really moved me! I can't imagine doing this kind of work full-time. It must take quite a toll, but I can see what you mean about it being rewarding. Honestly, when they're healthy it's like my entire day is brighter, but when they aren't it's like this huge cloud of worry.

Which brings me to what I wanted to say next---I feel like the black-and-white kitten as well as the big black kitten are both still a little lethargic. The vet's closed today so I can't take them back to him, and I've been force-feeding them formula with a syringe, but they're not like the other three. The others are super energetic and drink eagerly from a bottle, but those two don't seem too keen on it. They also haven't opened their eyes while the other three have their eyes wide open--but I'm assuming they're just late bloomers in that respect.

I took their weight this morning and it seems that there's been a pretty big impact on it.

Their current weights are

Big Tabby-- 111g

Big Black-- 112g

Small Tabby-- 112g

Small Black-- 94g

Black and white- 90g

The biggest difference has been in the black-and-white one's weight, and honestly while we were on our way to the vet yesterday it was the one in worst condition. I had my doubts as to whether or not it might make it. The vet has said that all their systems are very delicate at the moment and has recommended I feed them 3.5ml for a while. He also showed me how to force-feed the kittens with a syringe in case they refuse to eat. The place is closed today as it's Sunday, so I'm on my own until Monday and with two kittens I have to force-feed that makes me very anxious. He said that if any of them didn't seem alright by Monday I should bring them in, but with those two refusing to eat again I'm a little worried about making it that long. Even though I'm making them eat, they don't seem to be showing the obvious improvement the other three are and it's very confusing. They're all eating the same amount, but only three are getting better while the other two seem to be sort of stuck. I'm really worried that permanent damage has already been done.... 

Even more worrisome, I've noticed some of them are sneezing a little bit and I can't help but wonder if maybe they caught something at the vet's. So far I've noticed only Big Tabby and Little Black sneezing, but their eyes are really bright, their noses are cold and wet, they're eating, pooing and peeing well so I'm not sure if maybe there was just something irritating their nose at the time.

I never realized how much of a roller coaster ride it is when it comes to caring for kittens. One minute they're up and the next they're down and it becomes one crazy, confusing loop-the-loop.

@Anne with Cats,

Thank you! I'm sorry you lost three of your kitties, I can imagine how horrible that would be. Hopefully it won't come to that with this litter. 

 

[reba]

Well Dusty, whatever keeps people from messin' with ya! 

@catwoman:  I don't know how you give them up for adoption, but that is the goal. 

 

[catwoman707]

Oh boy............

8 days ago, and 8 days is a long time of growth for babies. They were from 100 gms up to 120 gms.

They are 1 week, 5-6 days old now.

Before I go on, are you absolutely positive that your scale is completely accurate?

 

[dustytiger]

I think it's anywhere from one to four grams off. That is, it subtracts from it one to four grams.

 

[catwoman707]

Close to 2 weeks old and weighing from 3.1 ounce to 3.9 ounce.

I really want you to understand that they are in grave danger. I am NOT one to ever believe that they can't be saved, but the fact is, they are in very guarded shape.

All of them, of course especially the 2 smallest who are continuing to act lethargic.

I am not telling you this to upset or discourage you, I only want you to be able to accept the very real possibility of losing one, two, maybe all of them, there's no way to predict.

That it has nothing what-so-ever to do with your care, you have been relentless all the way through, and doing everything you can for them given your resources there.

All you can do is keep plugging away, the goal is for each to gain AT LEAST 6 grams a day, starting today at first, but increasing daily until you see a gain of 10-14 gms a day.

Don't bother yourself with the sneezes, it is what it is, and isn't fatal in itself, but their weights are/can be.

They didn't pick up anything from the vet, there would have been more time in between.

They likely had a mom with a uri, this can easily be dealt with. (although I shouldn't say that since KMR was so hard to come by!)

The smallest 2 still don't have their eyes open? They are late bloomers for sure. Likely due to their lack of growth/development.

These babies are extremely malnourished, just from the last few days and what all has taken place basically, the lack of KMR there. 

Okay, carry on, if they won't take enough with the bottle, syringe their butts, they have got to grow asap. You will very soon be able to tell if you will lose the smallest ones. You need to see them turn around, fight for their life. You may not see this now, as you said, sometimes the damage is done and there is no returning. But we will see.

I never give up hope, and sometimes amazing things can happen with lots of love involved

@catwoman:  I don't know how you give them up for adoption, but that is the goal. 

It's my own realization that there are so many more who will need my help, so I have to keep myself open to any who come my way, to help them too. If not me, then who? Chances are, it's me or nobody. 

Not saying it's not hard either! I can tell you this much, the ones I have rescued who were in the worst way, who take some time to get well and healthy enough to be adopted, I bawl. Yep, I cry my eyes out when they go.

But it's okay. We have a bond that will always remain, and I believe they feel just the same They were meant to cross paths with me, but part of this to get them to where they are supposed to live and be loved for many years to come. 

Tons of adopters send me photos and updates, even years later. I LOVE this Food for my soul.