Constipated?

[vball91]

I'm not sure if Aria is slightly constipated or not. Ever since she's been on 100% raw, she's been pooping about every 3 days. She doesn't seem to be straining, but I'm not sure what to look for honestly. She goes in and does her business in usually less than a minute. I can see her bottom having slight contractions though. Is that normal or a sign of constipation? I honestly never paid that much attention to her BM's before transitioning to raw. I know raw fed cats poop less often, but 3 days seems like a long time between BM's.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I would say if she doesn't appear to be straining, she's probably ok.  When you see her "bottom" having slight contractions, is she in the "pooping" position, or the peeing position?  (I'm wondering how you can see her bottom doing anything when she's in the box

)

As you said, the poop way less on raw, so it's really hard to know, that's why I always just watch and see how mine behave when they are on there.  If I detect what appears to be an issue, then I just add some plain meat to their mix.

 

[ldg]

That's normal! They're supposed to have those contractions - it's the firmness of the poop that helps keep the anal glands expressed. :nod: There's so little waste from a raw diet, they just don't need to poop as often. If you read http://www.felineconstipation.org, it explains in the "Gut 101" series that the colon is basically just a "storehouse" for waste. They don't address raw feeding at all there, but with so little waste, they don't need to expel it as frequently, basically. I have one out of 8 cats that poops a very small amount every day; the others have a bowel movement every 2 or 3 days. :nod:

 

[vball91]

Yesl, she's definitely in the pooping position, not peeing. I have observed that there is a difference. It's not so much her bottom as the bottom 1/3 of the body that has these contractions. It's hard to describe. Sort of rhythmic quivers? And straining would be apparent right? Squatting in the box without result? I have not observed that at all.

I wasn't really worried until I read on the TCfeline site that 3 days without pooping equals constipation. So you don't think 3 days is abnormal on raw?

 

[ldg]

Nope. Normal for at least some of my cats. And this "pushing" is normal. :nod: Dr. P writes about it on her site. (Probably somewhere around where the pictures of stool are. :lol3: ).

Is her stool really hard and dry when it comes out? If not, I probably wouldn't worry. If it is, you could consider adding some pumpkin to her diet, if she likes it.

I will say, when I bumped the egg yolk lecithin to (half a capsule) once a day from a couple of times a week, everyone's stools seemed to be a bit moister when they come out; it seems to have ... "improved" their stool quality, if that makes any sense. :lol3:

Spooky would crouch there and push and push and push - she would be clearly uncomfortable. When she's actually constipated, she's in and out of the boxes. But at that point, she's in so much discomfort, she doesn't want to eat. Right now I have her on a teaspoon of pumpkin a day, but I'll probably be taking that down to 3 - 4x a week. We'll see how it goes.

 

[vball91]

Hmm, I haven't seen that on Dr. Pierson's site, but I'm glad to hear the contractions are normal. Her stools are not hard and dry. I think because of the COTW and some commercial raw in her diet, she's not producing truly raw poop. It's still a little soft, a little moist, and mostly dark brown (she does eat mostly red meat). I also give her EYL, one capsule every other day, alternated with slippery elm bark the other days.

I truly have not noticed any discomfort from her when in the box. I think I was just freaking out a little at the 3 days. Since that seems to be developing into her "norm" for being raw fed, I'll stop worrying about it. Thanks Laurie!

As always, lots of vibes for Spooky.

 

[southpaw]

As long as her poop is a normal consistency and not too hard, I wouldn't worry

How long has she been on all raw? When Jinx first switched over I seem to remember it taking a while for his system to adjust and get into a routine. He'd go a few days at a time without pooping. Now he's more predictable and poops like every other day.
 

 

[aprilprey]

I will say, when I bumped the egg yolk lecithin to (half a capsule) once a day from a couple of times a week, everyone's stools seemed to be a bit moister when they come out; it seems to have ... "improved" their stool quality, if that makes any sense.

 

I am giving this thread a bump - and wanted to know more about this above.  Lordy, I am stressing over Boo's Poo's (poetic, isn't it?) - being home all day (not working now) gives me so much opportunity to over think!

So, I am intrigued about the egg yolk lecithin - right now I am trying pumpkin at 1/2 teaspoon a day - 1/4 teaspoon 2x a day.  I can bump this up if necessary - she seems to not notice the addition. Maybe I'll look into this EYL if that doesn't give me results. She's pooping every other day - but she can regress a bit to even less often.  I am nearly certain she's got some hip/spine/arthritis pain going on - she walks as if she's in slight pain at times.  I think this may impact how comfy she is while eliminating, thus the effort to make it a bit easier on her.

The newer vet that saw her suggested Miralax, but I'd rather not go there until I've tried some more gentler approaches - there is some concern on my part in terms of drawing water from the rest of her body back into her large intestine.  Also, lots of people seem to report Miralax works for a while...then the effect wears off.

Boo has really taken to raw beef and lamb with TCFeline - but I'm still "diluting" with a little canned to lessen any effects from the freeze dried bone.  GAH...so frustrating, as I think her stools were a little better on canned (though more volume) but the raw provides much more calories than anything I can get in a can - and I think her weight is finally stable.

 

[peaches08]

Aprilprey, is she actually constipated or has a history of constipation? Or are you just not seeing as much poop since going raw?

 

[aprilprey]

Aprilprey, is she actually constipated or has a history of constipation? Or are you just not seeing as much poop since going raw?

She has a history of it, and she's 12 years old, so part of it is just age.  I am going by the Bristol Stool Chart....if her poop is in multiple, hard pebbles - I understand that to be "constipated", albeit mildly constipated.  I'm not looking at the amount of poop as much as the texture.  Thankfully, she doesn't seem to be struggling too much - she must be reading my posts, because she pooped right after I bumped this thread!  No multiple, fussy visits to the litterbox - just goes in and does her business. But she's been better...I want to prevent it rather than deal with it once its set in.  Since we got her off of kibble, there has been a range - I'd just like to get as close to "normal-easy" as I can.

Or is the Bristol Stool Chart not the last word, and more controversial than I realize?

 

[ldg]

Can you provide a link to this chart? Because I'm not familiar with it. But I'm guessing it's based on commercial food stool, which is very different that species-appropriate food stool. Raw fed stool is firmer and often drier. Some of my cats leave dry looking multiple hard marbles - though this does happen less often with the EYL.

 

[peaches08]

The Bristol Stool Chart is a good general guide, but for raw mine will usually do a 2 or 3, sometimes 1. But mine were prone to diarrhea, not constipation. Don't know if that helps you much.

 

[aprilprey]

Here it is - I found it on Dr. Hovfre's Little Big Cat site, Article Library:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/constipated-cats/

Hmmm...had not thought about the fact it could have developed within the context of commercial food only, that does give one pause.

 

[ldg]

OK, yeah, that is definitely a scale for commercial cat food poop. Raw-fed poop just doesn't really fit into that table. The poop of my kitties would be a 2 or 1 based on that scale, yet they are not constipated. They do have to push to get the poop out, but that is actually normal.

Here are pictures on Dr. Pierson's site: http://www.catinfo.org/makingcatfood.php#Constipation

And scroll down to her discussion of Fiber, in this section - another picture: http://www.catinfo.org/makingcatfood.php#The_Ingredients

You might have missed my thread on poop. :lol3: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263398/the-raw-stool-thread-warning-graphic

And this is the thread Andrya referred to (the poop lover's anonymous :lol3: ) - it started with this post: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/250579/starting-cold-turkey/30#post_3269199 . But keep scrolling through the pages, there are more pictures.

 

[aprilprey]

LOL - will you be offended if I finish my lunch first before checking these out?

Thanks again.  Despite all my worries, Boo continues to get peppier and peppier - now "kibble free" since end of June!  She's actually chasing my younger cat around a bit - based on this, she can't be feeling too plugged up.

 

[ldg]

Clearly not up for membership in the poop lover's anonymous group!

Please - eat your lunch first, and maybe give it an hour or two.

 

[aprilprey]

Clearly not up for membership in the poop lover's anonymous group!

Please - eat your lunch first, and maybe give it an hour or two.

I have potential though, and I am sure The Boyfriend would prefer I yammer on about Boo's Poops to somebody else.

RE: Dr. Pierson - I have seen that she uses guar gum for fiber and that's my next move if a touch of pumpkin doesn't stave off problems and keep her where she is: dryish poops but not straining.  When I was transitioning her off of kibble with Weruva's fish flavored canned, there were a couple that used guar gum plus her all time favorite had added pumpkin.  She seems to tolerate both additives very well.

 

[ldg]

Well, I actually directed you to her discussion of Fiber because of the poop picture there. :lol3:

Are you sure Boo is straining vs pushing? It does take my cats a little more "oomph" to pass stool now - but that's actually healthy, is my understanding. It's the consistency stool is supposed to be for ideal anal gland "maintenance." ? Something like that. :dk:

 

[aprilprey]

Well, I actually directed you to her discussion of Fiber because of the poop picture there.

Are you sure Boo is straining vs pushing? It does take my cats a little more "oomph" to pass stool now - but that's actually healthy, is my understanding. It's the consistency stool is supposed to be for ideal anal gland "maintenance." ? Something like that.

Her poops are much more marble like than those pictured - like 5 pieces or so, not the 2-3 piece "tootsie roll".  Although I have seen something CLOSE the latter from time to time.

And...no, I can't be 100% sure about straining vs. pushing.  I would say she's "concentrating deeply" LOL - she reminds me of Rodin's "The Thinker" sculpture - or like she's praying - I kid you not; very serious look on her face if that makes any sense whatsoever.

I am probably worrying way too much - I think partly its still the fallout from Houdini's (RIP) death and a little bit of "if only I had done this or that sooner or noticed this or that...or stayed on top of X, Y, or Z..."

Thanks for the support and feedback!

 

[ldg]

:lol3: Yes, it makes sense.

Well, with 8 cats, it's really hard for me to keep track. Spooky and Ming Loy have had a tendency to get constipated in the past, but, knock wood, it hasn't been an issue for months now. :cross: And the only way I knew was because it was too late, and they were in discomfort, in and out of the box.

I used some pumpkin regularly for Spooky for a while, but she really didn't like it. When Ming Loy had pancreatitis back in June, the vet suggested we put her on digestive enzymes. I started to add them to everyone's food... and since then, Ming Loy and Spooky haven't gotten constipated. :dk: I stopped giving them to everyone, because I don't think they're needed, and it's probably better for them to let their bodies do the work. I don't really know. Now - whether the digestive enzymes are helping Spooky and Ming Loy avoid constipation, I don't know. But I'm not giving them any fiber. They do get 1/2 a capsule of EYL a day. Everyone got more earlier in the year and through the summer, when they were shedding like mad. But now that they don't need it, we're back to 1/2 a capsule daily.