Constantly looking for food

[Antonio65]

The crazy search for food has reached new limits and horizons.
Yesterday, both kitties allied in the search and were able to find a new 12-pack box of wet food pouches in another room. They opened the box up, managed to grab a pouch and started chewing on it, until we found them and stopped the game. The pouches had been already pierced through and partially eaten inside.
A few hours later, Giada, the older of the two, woke up from her nap and walked down the corridor where she puked. I went there immediately and found some stomach juices, a hairball and a strange piece of something in the middle. It was a rather large piece of the plastic material of the pouches. That rascal not only ate part of the content of the pouches, but the packaging as well

Only two hours later, Freya, the other cat, puked as well. Her whole dinner, along with two tiny whitish pieces of something I couldn't tell what it was. And exactly an hour later she puked again a long roll of wet food and dozens of those whitish pieces. In that moment we recognized it was kitchen garbage. My wife had disposed of some fresh pasta that was past the expire date and had developed a little mold on it in the package. This other rascal had managed to open the lid of the kitchen waste bin and eat the rotten waste!
She was a bit down all night, and I only gave her half of her kibble meal at midnight.

This morning Freya attempted to eat the kitchen rug (fabric!) and later on I caught her chewing on the clothes' basket handles.

They both know no limits for eating, but Freya is really driving me mad!

 

[Kflowers]

Garbage diving is a dangerous thing, you must have been terrified when you realized what they'd done. When mine were of that age, I put two cup hooks on the underside of a shelf and hung a bucket from them. The space was such that the bucket could swing when touched. That meant if the cats tried to climb into it, it would swing and they would drop to the table three feet below (you can use a shorter drop if your cats aren't very long.) This kept them out of the trash. It, also, gave them hours of amusement trying to figure out how to get in the swinging bucket.

You do have to empty the bucket into your secure outside trashcan every day, but I'd think you'd want the kitchen garbage out of the house anyway.

 

[Antonio65]

That meant if the cats tried to climb into it, it would swing and they would drop to the table three feet below (you can use a shorter drop if your cats aren't very long.) This kept them out of the trash. It, also, gave them hours of amusement trying to figure out how to get in the swinging bucket.

You do have to empty the bucket into your secure outside trashcan every day, but I'd think you'd want the kitchen garbage out of the house anyway.

The fact is that we're living in a way that we were not used to. I mean, so far we had cats (ours or fosters) and none of them was like these two. I can't understand why they are this way, and we are constantly afraid of what happens next, because every day we have a new surprise, I'm afraid of what can happen in the next 15 years.

 

[Kflowers]

Each one is so different, that's the good and the bad of having cats.

We had one group, we called the rowdy bunch. For the first two years they could not get enough to eat. They each ate a large can of wet food - the 12-15 ounce size (cans were bigger then), and during the first 6 months or so milk with raw egg stirred into it, plus everything they could beg or steal. When they were two they calmed down, at least for our food. We were vegetarians and our little carnivores weren't that interested. Anyone who brought meat into the house was immediately surrounded. At that time they were getting 6 ounces of wet food a day and free graze dry. But they were very big - 15 lb males and 12 lb female.

 

[Flybynight]

Antonio65
How much are you feeding them in particular the kitten?
For example, how many tins or packets per day? Can you take a photo of what is in the bowl?

Growing kittens do need to eat several times a day but it is not just how many meals that effect hunger but how much food per meal.
It sounds as though the portions may not have been enough for them and food anxiety has developed.
I would not limit wet food but give as much as wanted. If they are food insecure they may overeat at first but later come to realize there is enough.

Dry food I would feed more sparingly as it can cause spikes in blood sugar as carb heavy and more likely to lead to weight gain.

I have two cats and when one of them is hungry he tends to chew/rip things, cardboard or paper etc.
I think the chewing may be a sign she is hungry.

 

[Antonio65]

Antonio65
How much are you feeding them in particular the kitten?
For example, how many tins or packets per day? Can you take a photo of what is in the bowl?

Wet food, two 3-oz pouches a day.
Kibbles, I haven't weighed them, twice a day. The dry food I give them is grain free, so it should be low in carbs.

Giving them more food would only have them to eat all in one session, and they would have nothing until the next meal, I tried this already. They aren't able to save it for later

If they are food insecure they may overeat at first but later come to realize there is enough.

I had a cat who was always hungry because she suffered from the competition in the colony where she was born. I rescued her when she was 8 months old, so she lived a long time in competition. My vet told me that she could have grown out of this habit eventually, and actually she took about two years to forget her past.
My current kitten was rescued at 6 weeks of age, I can hardly imagine a long-lived competition for food at that age.

I have two cats and when one of them is hungry he tends to chew/rip things, cardboard or paper etc.
I think the chewing may be a sign she is hungry.

This is what the older one does, chewing/tearing cardboard to say she's hungry.

 

[Flybynight]

Hi,

What I meant by food anxiety, I did not mean competition. I meant it seems she is still feeling hungry, as the amount or frequency of food is not enough.

I would increase the pouches - are you spliting the pouches between them? Even if one each, I would add another pouch during the day and if needed maybe split a fourth between them and see how they do with that.

If the pouches are pate like the new Monge mono protein pates that would probably be more filling than chunks in gravy, as the gravy tends to be carb heavy and the cats are not satisfied for as long after a meal.
Do you buy local or from Zooplus? Zooplus has many good German brands you can purchase in larger tins that are usually more economical than pouches. Feringa is good.
I would stay away from carb and sugar heavy pouches such as Felix and Whiskas, they will not be as filling.
Almo Nature and Monge are both good Italian brands. Almo Nature also has pates in both small & large tins and trays.
Gemon part of Monge has large cans of pate.
It may work out easiest to get large 400g tins and split between a couple meals.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Is that 2 3oz pouches for each cat? And, are you still feeding them 8 times a day? If so, on the assumption each cat gets 2 3oz pouches a day and two of their meals are dry food, these cats are only getting about an ounce to eat at a time - hardly enough to satiate cats at their ages - or most any cat at any age for that matter. How many calories are in each of those pouches? And, have you determined how much and how many calories are in the dry food you feed them? If you are now feeding them more at each meal, but less meals - what is the current regimen?

I also don't recall you ever actually telling us what these cats weigh.

Maybe all of the above information would be helpful for us to know.

 

[Kflowers]

How about giving them more food at each meal so that they are satisfied with the amount they get? If they are hungry between meals, especially the less than year old group, they need a bit more food.

 

[Antonio65]

So, I'm trying to reply to all questions.

Giada, 20 months old, 3.750 kg, spayed.
Freya, 8 months old, 2.650 kg, unspayed.

Four meals a day each cat.
The first meal around 7:30 am, wet food. Giada, monoproteic canned food, pate-like, 3 oz plus extra water (about 15 ml).
Freya, food in pouch, chunks in gravy for kittens and young cats, 3 oz plus extra water (about 15 ml).
The second meal at noon, grain-free dry food for both, about 15 grams each.
The third meal at 7:30 pm, same as in the morning.
The fourth and last meal shortly before midnight, same as at noon.
They have fresh water available, replaced daily. Bottled water, intended for babies, probably the best bottled water there is in this country (Sant'Anna mineral water).

Canned food for Giada is chicken, white fish or trout, different each week, calories 75 kcal per can on average (it depends on the ingredient, but given or taken 5 kcal this is the average). The brand is Marpet, Italian premium manufacturer.
Pouches for Freya is turkey and cranberries, the calories are 77 kcal per pouch, 2.2% carbs. The brand is Natural Trainer, Italian premium brand.
Dry food for both is Orijen grain-free, chicken or six fish, different each week. Each dry food meal is about 60 kcal.

I might be wrong, but it seems to me they are both receiving more calories than they need.
Freya's sister, who lives in another household, eats about half of what Freya eats (one 3-oz can and 30 grams of dry food each day), nonetheless that kitty weighs half a pound more than Freya and doesn't hunt for food all day.

I buy online from local dealers, less expensive than shops (furthermore I don't need to walk in with a mask on my face). Yesterday I placed an order for Giada, 185 euro, 10 weeks worth of wet food.
I know Zooplus, but I'm not shopping at them anymore. I also know Monge and Almo and know their quality. Never purchased Monge, but purchased Almo for years.

 

[Kflowers]

Do check the orijen for protein content vs. carb (not from grains but from peas and beans). Our cat gained 2 pounds on this food after she turned two, but she was free feeding a never empty bowl.

Since they are getting this amount and Freya's sister is getting less and gaining weight, I think it's time to consider getting an ultra sound of Freya's GI tract to see if anything is amiss. The last time I saw a cat eating well with no other symptoms and not gaining and in time losing weight there was a GI problem that was only revealed with an ultra sound.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Thanks for all that info!! Your cats seem to be a bit on the low side of normal weights. Of course, some of that depends on their size/length, and how much they are still expected to grow. Giada might be close to the end of her 'growing', but even so, she might not really be getting quite enough food. It is only an average, but the standard is for a grown adult female cat to be at least 4.5 kg. And, to be honest Freya at her age should already be closing in on a weight very close to that.

The foods/calories they are eating, if I understand, are probably a bit less than they could actually use, especially Freya who is still very much a growing kitten. That is probably even more so true for her since she isn't yet spayed. Like it or not, kittens up to at least the age of 1yo are typically allowed to eat what they want. Is Freya's sister already spayed? It doesn't really matter, I don't think you can base Freya on what her sister's care takers tell you anyway.

I think you are underfeeding them, most in particular Freya. And, yes, if you up their food amounts, they will most certainly spend some time over-eating. It is what cats do for a while when they have been underfed. It is something to be expected, and something you kind of have to tolerate until you see it subside - and, it will eventually.

 

[Kflowers]

Just checked with my sister, who eats meat, I don't. She said that pea/bean protein doesn't fill you up, stick with you, keep your satisfied as long as meat protein.

Pea and bean protein is completely useless to cats. It's only use is to raise the protein content of cat food for less money than meat would cost. Of course, I believe the pet food regulations are better enforced in your country than in the US.

 

[Antonio65]

Do check the orijen for protein content vs. carb (not from grains but from peas and beans). Our cat gained 2 pounds on this food after she turned two, but she was free feeding a never empty bowl.

The label says 42% proteins and 16% low glugose carbs. All the rest seems alright to me.

Since they are getting this amount and Freya's sister is getting less and gaining weight, I think it's time to consider getting an ultra sound of Freya's GI tract to see if anything is amiss. The last time I saw a cat eating well with no other symptoms and not gaining and in time losing weight there was a GI problem that was only revealed with an ultra sound.

Freya had an ultrasound scan on May 18. It was requested by the neurologist who had visited her over a few neurological issues and episodes.
Freya also had a full blood panel at the end of March that revealed just nothing. Another blood test was done for an electrophoresis on the same day as the US scan. All clear.

 

[Antonio65]

Thanks for all that info!! Your cats seem to be a bit on the low side of normal weights. Of course, some of that depends on their size/length, and how much they are still expected to grow.

Giada has big parents, her mother and father are big cats, but her sister is even smaller than she is.
Freya comes from a small mother, I don't know who her father is. Her sister is a little bigger, her brother is much much bigger, close to 4 kg! As you might know, Freya comes from a colony that I completely rescued. Most of the colony members are small sized. Her "cousins" are all small cats.

Giada might be close to the end of her 'growing', but even so, she might not really be getting quite enough food. It is only an average, but the standard is for a grown adult female cat to be at least 4.5 kg. And, to be honest Freya at her age should already be closing in on a weight very close to that.

Giada is almost 2 years old, and her weight has been steady in the last 4 months or so. I doubt that Freya will get as big as you say, for the reasons above.
Lola and Pallina were small sized cats too, but Lola was 4.5kg and Pallina was above 5 kg when she was healthy. But Pallina was really "round"

The foods/calories they are eating, if I understand, are probably a bit less than they could actually use, especially Freya who is still very much a growing kitten. That is probably even more so true for her since she isn't yet spayed. Like it or not, kittens up to at least the age of 1yo are typically allowed to eat what they want. Is Freya's sister already spayed? It doesn't really matter, I don't think you can base Freya on what her sister's care takers tell you anyway.

Freya's sister has been spayed 18 days ago. Her family is very attentive and does nothing before asking the vet and gathering info.
I would have liked to have Freya spayed too, a month ago, when she turned 7 months, but because of her neurological episodes the vets preferred to wait for more results and info.

I think you are underfeeding them, most in particular Freya. And, yes, if you up their food amounts, they will most certainly spend some time over-eating. It is what cats do for a while when they have been underfed. It is something to be expected, and something you kind of have to tolerate until you see it subside - and, it will eventually.

I will up Freya's amount of dry food, and I will wait and see.

 

[Antonio65]

Of course, I believe the pet food regulations are better enforced in your country than in the US.

Food regulations are very strict here, we are often told that we have the strictest regulations in the world when it comes to food and drugs, I don't know if it's true, and the enforcement for making sure the law requirements are met we have thousands checks a day all over the country.
I believe that if the food I am giving my cats has been approved for selling, it means that it meets all the requirements.

 

[Kflowers]

43% protein is good. But what kind of proteins are those proteins? Pea and bean protein is as valid a protein as chicken or beef. However, where pea and bean protein work well for humans they don't do much for cats. It's my understanding that pea and bean protein can not be processed/used by cats at all. So for cats whatever is from pea and bean is just to raise the protein content like putting tissue paper around a gift so you can put it in a bigger box.

 

[Antonio65]

43% protein is good. But what kind of proteins are those proteins? Pea and bean protein is as valid a protein as chicken or beef. However, where pea and bean protein work well for humans they don't do much for cats. It's my understanding that pea and bean protein can not be processed/used by cats at all. So for cats whatever is from pea and bean is just to raise the protein content like putting tissue paper around a gift so you can put it in a bigger box.

I understand your point of view, but I can't get into the discussion because I have no background on the matter.
What I think, though, is that if a premium brand (which I think Orijen is) use pea and beans as fillers, they should be good for pets' diets, but I'm open to any opinion.

 

[Kflowers]

Ask your vet if the cats can live on pea and bean protein. When considering anything always ask yourself, Cui bono?

 

[Flybynight]

Hi,
I would feed them a bit more, especially Freya, the kitten as others have mentioned.

I have two adult cats, neither overweight. They eat mainly wet with occasional raw food. I feed them when they ask. I figure they know when they are hungry and just like people, they want to eat when hungry.


Cats normally eat several small meals throughout the day if hunting, that is what they do.

I don't mind feeding when they ask, as it is either wet or complete raw food they are given and they have never gained weight on that.

Not all wet food is great but it does have more moisture than dry which is a benefit. Many wet foods have added sugars, peas, carrots etc which are not needed by cats.
I avoid sugar in cat food and if a food looks good aside from peas, potatoes etc I just remove them.