Congestive heart failure advice welcomed and needed

[FrankieTheCat]

Hello I'm new here. About 2 months ago I noticed my 16 year old girl Frankie with a cough. Took her to the vet for her blood work and completely forgot to mention her cough. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago. I finally took her back and the vet listened to her lungs there was a lot of wheezing. He thought it was asthma so gave her a steroid and antibiotic shot. 4 days later no improvement so he prescribed her prednisone. 8 days later no improvement so I took her back. Yesterday she got xrays done and blood work. Blood work came back good. She was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism in 2018 and ckd last year but her numbers were great. Her xrays not so much. The vet uses the word "nasty" to describe the shape of her lungs and heart. There is a lot of fluid in them. Essentially he diagnosed her with advanced congestive heart failure. He said he couldn't tell me if she'd live a month or less or longer. He said if her new meds don't make an improvement by Monday or Tuesday to take her back. He prescribed her Veraflox liquid oral form. Furosemide pill form and pimobendan pill form as well. Frankie is mildly active. She's never been the crazy kind always calm and loves to sleep a lot. She is still coughing a bit and has some labored breathing. About 32 to 40 breath pm. Frankie is my soulmate and I am heart broken she is going through this. She is still eating, drinking and using the litter box. She joins us in the kitchen when we cook or sits or lays by the doorway when we're in our kitchen or living room. It's a horrible feeling to not know whe she will pass or what signs to look for. For any of you who are familiar with CHF in cats any advice? When will I know it's time? When should the meds begin to work and notice improvement? What worsening signs should I look for? The internet tells me life expectancy after being diagnosed is 6 to 12 months if the meds work. I just need some advice, support. I didn't sleep last night. I'm worried to death, exhausted from crying. I just need some advice, help, anything to try and figure this out. Thank you. Photo of my Frankie yesterday.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I don't have a lot to offer, but wanted to know if you have had Frankie's records/x-ray looked over by either an internal medicine vet and/or a vet cardiologist? Your vet is likely familiar with one that they could consult with.

The reason I ask is that the x-rays done on Feeby (18+ yo) by my primary vet at the time suggested to her that Feeby's heart was enlarged and there was likely fluid in or around her lungs. When the x-rays were reviewed by an internal med vet, they wanted new x-rays done, which ruled out an enlarged heart and suggested that the fluid the vet saw wasn't really fluid but might be asthma - if Feeby were coughing, which she is not. Perhaps a specialty vet might have other thoughts and or treatment suggestions?

There are some threads related to CHF that you might be interested in looking through while you wait to hear from more knowledgeable members. Here is a link to them.
Search Results for Query: CHF | TheCatSite

 

[ScaryGoblin]

Hello I'm new here. About 2 months ago I noticed my 16 year old girl Frankie with a cough. Took her to the vet for her blood work and completely forgot to mention her cough. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago. I finally took her back and the vet listened to her lungs there was a lot of wheezing. He thought it was asthma so gave her a steroid and antibiotic shot. 4 days later no improvement so he prescribed her prednisone. 8 days later no improvement so I took her back. Yesterday she got xrays done and blood work. Blood work came back good. She was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism in 2018 and ckd last year but her numbers were great. Her xrays not so much. The vet uses the word "nasty" to describe the shape of her lungs and heart. There is a lot of fluid in them. Essentially he diagnosed her with advanced congestive heart failure. He said he couldn't tell me if she'd live a month or less or longer. He said if her new meds don't make an improvement by Monday or Tuesday to take her back. He prescribed her Veraflox liquid oral form. Furosemide pill form and pimobendan pill form as well. Frankie is mildly active. She's never been the crazy kind always calm and loves to sleep a lot. She is still coughing a bit and has some labored breathing. About 32 to 40 breath pm. Frankie is my soulmate and I am heart broken she is going through this. She is still eating, drinking and using the litter box. She joins us in the kitchen when we cook or sits or lays by the doorway when we're in our kitchen or living room.View attachment 432338 It's a horrible feeling to not know whe she will pass or what signs to look for. For any of you who are familiar with CHF in cats any advice? When will I know it's time? When should the meds begin to work and notice improvement? What worsening signs should I look for? The internet tells me life expectancy after being diagnosed is 6 to 12 months if the meds work. I just need some advice, support. I didn't sleep last night. I'm worried to death, exhausted from crying. I just need some advice, help, anything to try and figure this out. Thank you. Photo of my Frankie yesterday.

I am so sorry you are going through this. My heart goes out to you and your kitty. I wish you both the best moving forward

 

[suh]

I second the advice to have your cat seen by a cardiologist if possible. They can do a scan of Frankie's heart to know better what her condition is. Furosemide will help remove the fluids from Frankie's chest, so her breathing should start to slow to normal. I would monitor Frankie's breathing while sleeping, normal breathing rate per minute while sleeping is 15-30 breaths(in+out is 1 breath). If she's not improving, the vet might try giving her furosemide/lasix injection, which should work much faster than the pill form.

While steroid will help with asthma, it's not good for kitties with heart failure. My cat's cardiologist used to say heart trumps everything else. I don't know if Frankie has chf or both chf and asthma. It's a delicate balance to treat both heart and lung. A cardiologist and internal medicine doctor will need to work together for that.

I had a cat with CHF and mild asthma, he lived pretty normally and happily for another 2 and a half years after diagnosis. Don't worry too much about the prognosis, it's different for every cat. Our routine with him is keeping track of his breathing, heart meds, and cardiologist visit every 6 months. (A cat having difficulty breathing will try to keep their head raised/sit in a sphinx position so they don't squish their chest)

 

[catmando2]

Did the vet only look at x-rays to conclude CHF? I was in a situation about a month ago where my cat was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and the vet pretty much assumed CHF. The vet told me all the bad things and got me totally alarmed thinking that my cat could be gone anytime as he was exhibiting symptoms consistent with CHF like shortness of breath, panting, shallow breathing. But those symptoms can also be brought upon by hyperthyroidism that just looks like CHF.

In my situation, the vet was ready to start prescribing heart medication for the rest my cats life. But also said to do that or verify more with an echocardiogram on the heart. My thinking was before I decide to put my cat down or anything I need to at least know how much damage was to his heart before making a decision. So I went ahead and had the echocardiogram done (not cheap, about $600). The result came back to my suprise that my cat has a normal heart. I had expected the worse but ends up his heart is normal.

I'm saying this because the vet scared the heck of me. I asked to did it mean he only had months to live, but that question was ignored.

 

[iPappy]

Oh I know that feeling of being too exhausted to sleep. I feel for you
If Frankie is still mildly active and knows her limits, I'd let her self regulate. She's obviously taking an interest in you, her surroundings, and her life!
I've had a few with heart disease, and the most important part for me was keeping their lives as relatively stress free as possible and routines as normal as possible, too. IDK where you live, but where I live it's taken a sharp turn towards chilly weather. Cold weather and heart disease don't mix, so try to keep the house at a nice temperature. If you take her out to the vets and it's cold, I'd warm the car up first, and cover her carrier with a thick blanket to avoid her getting a sharp blast of cold air. IDK if it's a huge deal or not, but it's always good to be safe.
When you say her breathing is labored, is she up and moving, at rest, or fast asleep? This will make a difference and my vets have always told me to try to take it while they're sleeping.
You mentioned she has CKD. Is she taking anything for this or on any special diet for kidneys?
Frankie is a beauty. I have two black cats of my own that are 14 1/2, and I'm a little partial to them As much as it hurts, you're not alone in that feeling of being worried and afraid, and not knowing what to expect. Keep us updated if you can.

 

[FrankieTheCat]

I second the advice to have your cat seen by a cardiologist if possible. They can do a scan of Frankie's heart to know better what her condition is. Furosemide will help remove the fluids from Frankie's chest, so her breathing should start to slow to normal. I would monitor Frankie's breathing while sleeping, normal breathing rate per minute while sleeping is 15-30 breaths(in+out is 1 breath). If she's not improving, the vet might try giving her furosemide/lasix injection, which should work much faster than the pill form.

While steroid will help with asthma, it's not good for kitties with heart failure. My cat's cardiologist used to say heart trumps everything else. I don't know if Frankie has chf or both chf and asthma. It's a delicate balance to treat both heart and lung. A cardiologist and internal medicine doctor will need to work together for that.

I had a cat with CHF and mild asthma, he lived pretty normally and happily for another 2 and a half years after diagnosis. Don't worry too much about the prognosis, it's different for every cat. Our routine with him is keeping track of his breathing, heart meds, and cardiologist visit every 6 months. (A cat having difficulty breathing will try to keep their head raised/sit in a sphinx position so they don't squish their chest)

Thank you for the advice. It really helps. Right before bed I laid with her and waited for her ro really really. She was at 33 bpm which is a big difference from the 37 earlier.

 

[FrankieTheCat]

Oh I know that feeling of being too exhausted to sleep. I feel for you
If Frankie is still mildly active and knows her limits, I'd let her self regulate. She's obviously taking an interest in you, her surroundings, and her life!
I've had a few with heart disease, and the most important part for me was keeping their lives as relatively stress free as possible and routines as normal as possible, too. IDK where you live, but where I live it's taken a sharp turn towards chilly weather. Cold weather and heart disease don't mix, so try to keep the house at a nice temperature. If you take her out to the vets and it's cold, I'd warm the car up first, and cover her carrier with a thick blanket to avoid her getting a sharp blast of cold air. IDK if it's a huge deal or not, but it's always good to be safe.
When you say her breathing is labored, is she up and moving, at rest, or fast asleep? This will make a difference and my vets have always told me to try to take it while they're sleeping.
You mentioned she has CKD. Is she taking anything for this or on any special diet for kidneys?
Frankie is a beauty. I have two black cats of my own that are 14 1/2, and I'm a little partial to them As much as it hurts, you're not alone in that feeling of being worried and afraid, and not knowing what to expect. Keep us updated if you can.

I'm in southern AL so it's going to get a bit chilly soon. I'll definitely keep her a lot warm this winter. I didn't know it could be a problem. But thank you for letting me know. Helps me prevent her from getting to cold or being mindful about it. I've been checking her breathingany times a day. It hasn't gone above 38 and before bed I laid with her and it was at 33 bpm which made me a bit happy. She's borderline ckd and her kidney values looked very well Friday. She's not on any prescribed medication just following a good diet and adding some supplements.

 

[FrankieTheCat]

Did the vet only look at x-rays to conclude CHF? I was in a situation about a month ago where my cat was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and the vet pretty much assumed CHF. The vet told me all the bad things and got me totally alarmed thinking that my cat could be gone anytime as he was exhibiting symptoms consistent with CHF like shortness of breath, panting, shallow breathing. But those symptoms can also be brought upon by hyperthyroidism that just looks like CHF.

In my situation, the vet was ready to start prescribing heart medication for the rest my cats life. But also said to do that or verify more with an echocardiogram on the heart. My thinking was before I decide to put my cat down or anything I need to at least know how much damage was to his heart before making a decision. So I went ahead and had the echocardiogram done (not cheap, about $600). The result came back to my suprise that my cat has a normal heart. I had expected the worse but ends up his heart is normal.

I'm saying this because the vet scared the heck of me. I asked to did it mean he only had months to live, but that question was ignored.

I live in a very small town in the country in AL and the nearest vet cardiologist or hospital that could provide something like that is 3 hours away! I will ask my vet anyway though. I'd hate to stress her through a 3 hour ride there and back. She would be so stressed! However I did reach out to my old vet. She is amazing and treated Frankie for years, helped me manage her thyroid and removed a tumor from her. Unfortunately we moved away almost 2 years ago snd I miss her terribly but has always been kind to give me a second opinion when I ask so I'm waiting for her respond. I truly wish she has more than 6 months to live! Or even more.

 

[Miathebsh]

Hello,
A cat that has congestive heart failure will be another cat - that means she will feel unwell . I would suggest you to take your furry friend to the cardiologist . We had a bad diagnosis with our Mia when we spayed her - HCM . We waited about 6 months to go at the best cardiologist in our country and after electrocardiogram was done the diagnose was : False tendon - that means she was born with this problem and if the heart will look normal next year she will be ok .
i’m very concerned about putting my baby on heart treatment witouth a specilality vet saying it will be ok .
so i suggest you to do the possible and contact a cardiologist and explain them the situation , maybe they can look over the x-rays and whatever analisys you already make so they will tell you what is better for your Frankie .
It’s very hard when you know that your baby girl can suffer a disease that can t be cures, only be treated .
we keep fingers crossed for your Frankie and send our love from Romania !

 

[di and bob]

At 16, it is going to be really hard to aggressively treat this. My Burt was diagnosed with the same thing when he was 9 and lived to be 16. We treated him with Lasix. He got SO stressed out with vet visits too. I just really gave him supportive care and he lived a lot longer than what the vets gave him. Truly, just love your girl, don't stress her out with vet visits that most likely won't do a whole lot, and follow a med regime that will help her symptoms. She needs dignity right now at the end of her life, and truly just needs you and the love you have always given her. She just needs you........

 

[iPappy]

At 16, it is going to be really hard to aggressively treat this. My Burt was diagnosed with the same thing when he was 9 and lived to be 16. We treated him with Lasix. He got SO stressed out with vet visits too. I just really gave him supportive care and he lived a lot longer than what the vets gave him. Truly, just love your girl, don't stress her out with vet visits that most likely won't do a whole lot, and follow a med regime that will help her symptoms. She needs dignity right now at the end of her life, and truly just needs you and the love you have always given her. She just needs you........

I opted out of taking mine to a cardio vet because he was very old, it was 2.5 hours away, and car rides stressed him out SO badly. I didn't figure 5 hours in a car and who knows how long at a new vets office was going to be good for his heart at all. It all depends on the cat and how they handle things and if they stress well or not. Mine actually lived much longer than the vet originally thought!

 

[FrankieTheCat]

I opted out of taking mine to a cardio vet because he was very old, it was 2.5 hours away, and car rides stressed him out SO badly. I didn't figure 5 hours in a car and who knows how long at a new vets office was going to be good for his heart at all. It all depends on the cat and how they handle things and if they stress well or not. Mine actually lived much longer than the vet originally thought!

Aw that's so good to hear. Yes I'm thinking the same thing and really trying to follow my gut instincts after all were the ones who have been with them for years and know them best as far as what they may able to handle. I really hope my Frankie makes it to 2023. Feb 2023 will be her 17th gotcha day.

 

[FrankieTheCat]

Hello,
A cat that has congestive heart failure will be another cat - that means she will feel unwell . I would suggest you to take your furry friend to the cardiologist . We had a bad diagnosis with our Mia when we spayed her - HCM . We waited about 6 months to go at the best cardiologist in our country and after electrocardiogram was done the diagnose was : False tendon - that means she was born with this problem and if the heart will look normal next year she will be ok .
i’m very concerned about putting my baby on heart treatment witouth a specilality vet saying it will be ok .
so i suggest you to do the possible and contact a cardiologist and explain them the situation , maybe they can look over the x-rays and whatever analisys you already make so they will tell you what is better for your Frankie .
It’s very hard when you know that your baby girl can suffer a disease that can t be cures, only be treated .
we keep fingers crossed for your Frankie and send our love from Romania !

Aw I'm glad for your baby. I hope it all works out for you. I've seen an improvement on one of the meds she's taking father furosemide which helps with the fluid in her lungs. Shortly after I give it to her her breathing is much better. I will do my best to seek out a cardiologist I just hate how far away they are from where I live! Living in a small town has its perks but sometimes not.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I will do my best to seek out a cardiologist I just hate how far away they are from where I live!

At least see how far your vet can go with a tele/phone consultation before you would actually have to take Frankie to their location.

 

[iPappy]

Aw that's so good to hear. Yes I'm thinking the same thing and really trying to follow my gut instincts after all were the ones who have been with them for years and know them best as far as what they may able to handle. I really hope my Frankie makes it to 2023. Feb 2023 will be her 17th gotcha day.

I was so happy my Tag made it to his 13th gotcha day in July. I hope the same for Frankie too.

 

[iPappy]

At least see how far your vet can go with a tele/phone consultation before you would actually have to take Frankie to their location.

My vet did this briefly when mine started experiencing problems, but unfortunately his type of heart disease was bad and he was far gone. But the phone consultation stuff has been a life saver. We worked remotely with a vet clear across the country on Tag's case, and texting videos (breathing, moving around, etc.) was so easy to do.

 

[nurseangel]

I am so sorry to hear about your cat. My cat Daisy has congestive heart failure treated with Lasix. When she was diagnosed, she was obese (the vet pointed at a wall chart of cat sizes and said she wasn't even on it) and said that she could fall over dead at any time. I am not sure if those were his exact words, but they were close. He is blunt. I would like to say that we did all the right things and put her on a diet. We did not. We made the decision to let her live out her days happy, eating as much as she wanted, since we thought we would have to have her PTS soon. It has been years since her diagnosis. She does cough worse sometimes than others and has lost weight as part of the aging process, but she is still going strong. We occasionally have to take her to the vet when she develops problems with her mouth, but I don't think the two issues are related.

I am not saying this to give you false hope. I just want you to know that CHF is not always a death sentence. If I had it to do over again, I would try to improve Daisy's diet and there would be no treats. Daisy may be a rare case, but she has outlived many of my healthy cats. I should note that we don't have a specialist near, so we are only going by our regular vet's advice. If you are able, I would recommend doing as the others recommended and get a cardiology opinion.

 

[Pattys72]

Hello I'm new here. About 2 months ago I noticed my 16 year old girl Frankie with a cough. Took her to the vet for her blood work and completely forgot to mention her cough. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago. I finally took her back and the vet listened to her lungs there was a lot of wheezing. He thought it was asthma so gave her a steroid and antibiotic shot. 4 days later no improvement so he prescribed her prednisone. 8 days later no improvement so I took her back. Yesterday she got xrays done and blood work. Blood work came back good. She was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism in 2018 and ckd last year but her numbers were great. Her xrays not so much. The vet uses the word "nasty" to describe the shape of her lungs and heart. There is a lot of fluid in them. Essentially he diagnosed her with advanced congestive heart failure. He said he couldn't tell me if she'd live a month or less or longer. He said if her new meds don't make an improvement by Monday or Tuesday to take her back. He prescribed her Veraflox liquid oral form. Furosemide pill form and pimobendan pill form as well. Frankie is mildly active. She's never been the crazy kind always calm and loves to sleep a lot. She is still coughing a bit and has some labored breathing. About 32 to 40 breath pm. Frankie is my soulmate and I am heart broken she is going through this. She is still eating, drinking and using the litter box. She joins us in the kitchen when we cook or sits or lays by the doorway when we're in our kitchen or living room.View attachment 432338 It's a horrible feeling to not know whe she will pass or what signs to look for. For any of you who are familiar with CHF in cats any advice? When will I know it's time? When should the meds begin to work and notice improvement? What worsening signs should I look for? The internet tells me life expectancy after being diagnosed is 6 to 12 months if the meds work. I just need some advice, support. I didn't sleep last night. I'm worried to death, exhausted from crying. I just need some advice, help, anything to try and figure this out. Thank you. Photo of my Frankie yesterday.

So sorry your Frankie is sick. Im not replying to be negative, I hope she still has lots of time left!!
But your post asked for signs, etc.so I thought I would share some. Last year I lost my 4 year old Ragdoll/Siamese, Richard VERY suddenly due to What they say had to have been undiagnosed CHF. He literally was born in our house, the one and only kitten of 7 we kept. He and my other cat, who was one year older were an EXTREMELY bonded pair. They were literally together 24/7. Playing or snuggling. One day he came in the house and laid down in the hallway outside my bedroom as I was cleaning. His legs were in an awkward position - his hind legs were pointed backwards and he just didn’t look right. I picked him up and I could hear labored breathing. I called looking for open vet as it was a Sunday evening. It all happened so fast. We had no idea he was even sick. We rushed him to only ER Vet - an hour away unfortunately. I think He stopped breathing as we walked in the building. They did cpr on him for several min but weren’t able to save him. We were told that his actions I described are classic signs of severe heart failure. The laying down with legs pointed back. They often lose ability to move their hind legs. The labored breathing etc. i still can’t believe it all happened so quickly. The one thing I realized as I thought back over the days leading up to it, I still and slways will have guilt over it but I think he had probably been excessively sleeping for a few days. It a was hot summer though and cats like to nap as we all know, so i didn’t think much of it. But I also remembered that his meow had sounded funny for a couple days prior to that day as well. So that was kind of my main point. Watch for excessive napping and listen to the meow. Richard was pretty vocal and I remember even talking back to him the day or so before saying why you meowing at me like that you silly boy. It was just different sounding. Sadly I realized after the fact that it was almost a gurgle type sound in his meow. Which meant fluid on his heart - I had no idea. Breaks my heart.
We had no clue up until an hour before he passed. Enjoy every moment of time with Frankie. Hope she does well.

 

[iPappy]

So sorry your Frankie is sick. Im not replying to be negative, I hope she still has lots of time left!!
But your post asked for signs, etc.so I thought I would share some. Last year I lost my 4 year old Ragdoll/Siamese, Richard VERY suddenly due to What they say had to have been undiagnosed CHF. He literally was born in our house, the one and only kitten of 7 we kept. He and my other cat, who was one year older were an EXTREMELY bonded pair. They were literally together 24/7. Playing or snuggling. One day he came in the house and laid down in the hallway outside my bedroom as I was cleaning. His legs were in an awkward position - his hind legs were pointed backwards and he just didn’t look right. I picked him up and I could hear labored breathing. I called looking for open vet as it was a Sunday evening. It all happened so fast. We had no idea he was even sick. We rushed him to only ER Vet - an hour away unfortunately. I think He stopped breathing as we walked in the building. They did cpr on him for several min but weren’t able to save him. We were told that his actions I described are classic signs of severe heart failure. The laying down with legs pointed back. They often lose ability to move their hind legs. The labored breathing etc. i still can’t believe it all happened so quickly. The one thing I realized as I thought back over the days leading up to it, I still and slways will have guilt over it but I think he had probably been excessively sleeping for a few days. It a was hot summer though and cats like to nap as we all know, so i didn’t think much of it. But I also remembered that his meow had sounded funny for a couple days prior to that day as well. So that was kind of my main point. Watch for excessive napping and listen to the meow. Richard was pretty vocal and I remember even talking back to him the day or so before saying why you meowing at me like that you silly boy. It was just different sounding. Sadly I realized after the fact that it was almost a gurgle type sound in his meow. Which meant fluid on his heart - I had no idea. Breaks my heart.
We had no clue up until an hour before he passed. Enjoy every moment of time with Frankie. Hope she does well.

I'm so sorry about Richard. It's so hard to lose them so young
My Mom lost a cat last year. 10 years old, cat was healthy. My Mom laid down on the couch and dozed, and her cat was normal. When she woke up literally one hour later, her cat was flat on her side and barely responsive. She rushed her to the vets and her cat was in END stage heart failure. How do they not show signs?? Cats are so good at hiding pain and discomfort. My dogs are very good at hiding pain, but my cats are Masters. It was so upsetting for my Mom to lose her that way.
My dog I recently lost, he was experiencing heart symptoms. His heart had always been strong, but he had lost a lot of weight due to cancer. I'd take him outside and be shocked every time at how light he was to carry vs. how he was in his younger days. This little nagging thought in the back of my mind would say, "how much muscle on their body can they lose before it starts working on the muscle inside, the heart?" I remember once a vet telling me "his heart is one strong muscle." He was much younger then.
His breathing became labored, and I could hear that gurgling sound from his lungs. I'd lay my ear to his chest and his heart was banging around, it was loud and uneven and not normal for being at rest.
It's strange you mention the back legs. A week before he passed, he was on the vets table and she was giving me a gentle talk about quality of life. I noticed he was "down" on his hocks, he wasn't standing on them but his back legs appeared so weak. I just stood there and was like "Can't be. He has cancer, not heart disease." But, he did.
It seems the ones I've lost to heart or heart-inclusive problems were always sweet ones. I decided awhile back that they have so much love to give that their little hearts can't take it.