Confusing "scared" cat acting assertive?

[Babypinkweeb]

On week 3 of cat intro and I'm honestly so confused about where I am and how my new cat is doing. Resident cat is 11yr male who never hiss and tries to stay out of her way. New cat is 6yr female acts scared but is also very confident and pretty bossy?

She hisses and growls at him half the time when they are near eachother, sometimes swats. Lately I feel like she is starting to act more bitchy to him, such as going to him on her own and then hissing and swatting at him to get off of his spot. He is literally just enjoying his spot and just runs way when he sees her or gets hissed at. She is absolutely not scared of his smell, and I just get recommended to do more scent or site swapping but I feel she is way beyond that as she literally doesn't care about smells until she sees him.

Just today he was using a litter box in her room and he has done that before on past few days during free roam. She saw him walking out and decided to come closer and then she did the butt wiggling before pouncing on him and hissing and swatting him. Of course he gets scared away and just backs off and I get in between with a blocker.

I have no idea what to do. When she is out my resident cat is always wary and cautious and is scared to come near us sometimes cus she is always hanging near us. Usually when I put her away in her room, resident cat becomes more affectionate. Pet gates do 0 because she can jump very tall and the way the door opens don't really allow stacking gates. She is obviously not scared so I don't know why she keeps hissing at him.

 

[FeebysOwner]

HI. 3 weeks for cats that are the age of yours is absolutely nothing!!!!! I think you have rushed things. I would go back a couple of steps in the process and don't move forward until you see some positive changes. Scent swapping is probably not necessary at this point. It is more like seeing each other but not being able to touch each other that would be more beneficial. And, the site swapping isn't just for scents, it is to allow the resident cat to have time in what used to be his entire territory, and to get the newer cat acclimated a bit at a time to parts of the house - but not directly together.

There are ways to create a blockade at a door that are much easier to work with than baby gates. There is one I have recommended before that uses DIY materials from a hardware store. It is basic closet shelving that can usually be purchased up to lengths of a door height - connected with zip ties that allow it to be folded for easy access. I am including a pic below. I am also including the TCS articles on how to take steps back in what would appear to be a so-far unsuccessful introduction process.

How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction – TheCatSite Articles

 

[Babypinkweeb]

HI. 3 weeks for cats that are the age of yours is absolutely nothing!!!!! I think you have rushed things. I would go back a couple of steps in the process and don't move forward until you see some positive changes. Scent swapping is probably not necessary at this point. It is more like seeing each other but not being able to touch each other that would be more beneficial. And, the site swapping isn't just for scents, it is to allow the resident cat to have time in what used to be his entire territory, and to get the newer cat acclimated a bit at a time to parts of the house - but not directly together.

There are ways to create a blockade at a door that are much easier to work with than baby gates. There is one I have recommended before that uses DIY materials from a hardware store. It is basic closet shelving that can usually be purchased up to lengths of a door height - connected with zip ties that allow it to be folded for easy access. I am including a pic below. I am also including the TCS articles on how to take steps back in what would appear to be a so-far unsuccessful introduction process.

How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction – TheCatSite Articles

Yes I've read that weeks and months are nothing to adult cat introductions. I've also been told to listen to the cats and see how they feel, and adjust the speed of introduction based on their behavior. The new cat meows sadly in her room a lot and does not like being in her "safe" room, and rather run out to hang out.

I've done site swapping already considering everytime I open the door she squeezed thru and jumps over the pet gate before I even have a chance to react. I've done it for several days without my resident cat being there, and she acts like she's lived there all her life, making herself comfy on many things that resident cat has enjoyed for years. A few times in the last few days she hung out on my lap while Resident cat walked by right by my leg and neither even flinched. Resident cat has no qualms about drinking from new cat's water bowl, sleep in her bed, or use her litter box. My resident has 0 concept of being territorial... Like I said it basically looks like the new cat owns the place while my resident is trying to accommodate for her at every step.

I made a previous post a week or two ago on here and no one except 1 person even replied so I've been going with their advice so far. Besides that, reading all the guides I can find online, and getting advice from my vet, I haven't been told it's too soon. Are they not suppose to be in the same space until there is 0 hissing? They can eat just fine across from eachother with no hissing or stare down. I've even done treat reward sessions where they say a ft away from eachother with no issue. From the videos I've watched they said it like, if they can eat with no issue across from eachother, it's ok to move to the next step. They aren't fighting at every sight... But if you think they should be separated then I'll keep her locked up more again. I just hate hearing her meow and be lonely, as well as my boy meowing outside her door.

I'll consider the folding grid door. I've not had a cat act "scared" while eagerly jumping over pet gates during introduction so I was hoping I didn't have to buy more items that will end up at a landfill.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I only responded because I got the impression that you didn't think things were going well enough. It is highly likely that she is trying to become the dominant cat. And, that does happen sometimes, particularly since she is younger - and, it is somewhat dependent on your older cat's personality/demeanor. It's just a matter of balancing things so that RC doesn't think he has been 'replaced'.

If you feel she is confident enough as she is - which it sounds like she very well might be - then starting to 'train' her to NOT attack RC might be the next step. This is an important step if you think their current interactions have a negative impact on RC in any manner. So, if she goes after him, hisses and/or swats, pick her up, firmly tell her "No" or hiss at her (pick one and stick with it), and then put her in a time out for just a couple of minutes. This needs to be repeated each and every time consistently in order for her to get it that she cannot treat RC that way. This also lets RC know you 'have his back' helping him to feel more secure, and that he hasn't 'lost his place'.

I would still keep them separated when you are not around to monitor things. However, I would use a different room for her in this case than her 'time out' room so that she doesn't correlate the separation for bothering RC with the separation for your sanity when you are not at home.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

I only responded because I got the impression that you didn't think things were going well enough. It is highly likely that she is trying to become the dominant cat. And, that does happen sometimes, particularly since she is younger - and, it is somewhat dependent on your older cat's personality/demeanor. It's just a matter of balancing things so that RC doesn't think he has been 'replaced'.

If you feel she is confident enough as she is - which it sounds like she very well might be - then starting to 'train' her to NOT attack RC might be the next step. This is an important step if you think their current interactions have a negative impact on RC in any manner. So, if she goes after him, hisses and/or swats, pick her up, firmly tell her "No" or hiss at her (pick one and stick with it), and then put her in a time out for just a couple of minutes. This needs to be repeated each and every time consistently in order for her to get it that she cannot treat RC that way. This also lets RC know you 'have his back' helping him to feel more secure, and that he hasn't 'lost his place'.

I would still keep them separated when you are not around to monitor things. However, I would use a different room for her in this case than her 'time out' room so that she doesn't correlate the separation for bothering RC with the separation for your sanity when you are not at home.

I'm not sure if it's going well or not, hence the post asking for advice. I tend to ramble which might be why my post came across unclear. I've introduced other female cats to my RC before with different behavior thru the process (1 was clearly fearful so I took long time for introduction, 2nd didn't give a crap and tolerated him right away). Both of those cats were ex-roommate's so they are no longer with me. The current NC is giving me mixed signals which is why I'm confused if this is still considered "normal" behavior. She acts like the tolerant 2nd cat most of the time, until she doesn't and then hiss and smack him, sometimes obviously scared other times seem on the offense. I can only get so many relavent results on searches since each introduction is unique, and most posts I've found are people introducing kittens, or the cats have a very clear stance of being territorial or scared. I appreciate the response of course, but I've read a lot of the articles and info people tell me. I don't mean to sound ungrateful of course... I wish I could just have someone see them in person and give me specific advice sometimes!

I do notice RC sometimes becoming relaxed and more affectionate once NC is put away, but at the same time sometimes he still wants her to not be "away", meowing and trilling outside her room.

RC's temperament has always been the same when he meets new cats, so introduction has always depended on how the new cat will respond. RC is the type who wants to sniff and trill and become friends in an instant. I also only adopted NC as she was said to be good with other cats and had no responses to the other cats in the social cat room at the shelter. I never intended to rush things. I'm just not sure what's a good next step after they can eat without a gate within a foot of eachother with no hissing. They've even played with feather toy within the same room.

I have always worked from home so I never let them be together without me watching like a hawk. I was soft and since she kept wanting to enjoy our shared space I let her free roam for several hours in morning and almost the entire afternoon and evening. She pretty much hates going to her safe room and I can only get her to go with treats or if she needs to use the litter box, because she knows she won't have access to the rest of the space. I've started giving her time out the last 3 days when I see her becoming too tense, but wasn't sure if it's a good idea as I keep reading conflicting posts about whether the cat understands or not. I do notice after time out she is a lot calmer (once I gave her time out for being aggressive to RC in the morning, and when she was out again in afternoon she only hissed at him once during the next 7 hours.) I will try to do it more. I'm not trying to force them to be Bff or being ignorant about cat introductions... Apologies if it sounds like this way.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I wish I could just have someone see them in person and give me specific advice sometimes!

You know, you could always take videos of some of the different interactions and post them here for others to see. Maybe that would help? Worth a shot anyway...

 

[Babypinkweeb]

You know, you could always take videos of some of the different interactions and post them here for others to see. Maybe that would help? Worth a shot anyway...

I had a few on my other thread but I will link them here in case anyone clicks in here. I don't have a ton of them awake and interacting because I try to focus on them and usually leave my phone somewhere. RC is the one with the white nose.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

You know, you could always take videos of some of the different interactions and post them here for others to see. Maybe that would help? Worth a shot anyway...

Sorry to quote you again, but would you have any insight on possible reason of NC wiggling her butt to pounce on RC? I can't find anything googling as it just all results in pages about why cats wiggle their butt, but no in terms of why when they do it to a cat they hiss at.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Very pretty kitties! After looking at the videos - which, unless I somehow missed it, didn't include any where NC is swatting/hissing at RC - I think her behavior looks to be mostly inquisitive. But, based on what you say happens at times, she also seems to me to be exhibiting signs of attempting dominance over RC. I think her tail being up all the time might be an indicator of that. The wiggly butt is just something some cats do when they get excited, probably her anticipation of pouncing on RC. Are either of their ears ever back when they approach one another?

I am not sure RC is terribly bothered by her, but certainly is 'on guard'. Of course, that is hard to tell as there times that he seemed more curious about you taking a video of him than he was even paying attention to NC.

I just think more time is needed. But, I would discourage NC from pouncing on RC especially if he seems stressed/upset by it.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

Very pretty kitties! After looking at the videos - which, unless I somehow missed it, didn't include any where NC is swatting/hissing at RC - I think her behavior looks to be mostly inquisitive. But, based on what you say happens at times, she also seems to me to be exhibiting signs of attempting dominance over RC. I think her tail being up all the time might be an indicator of that. The wiggly butt is just something some cats do when they get excited, probably her anticipation of pouncing on RC. Are either of their ears ever back when they approach one another?

I am not sure RC is terribly bothered by her, but certainly is 'on guard'. Of course, that is hard to tell as there times that he seemed more curious about you taking a video of him than he was even paying attention to NC.

I just think more time is needed. But, I would discourage NC from pouncing on RC especially if he seems stressed/upset by it.

I haven't gotten any swats on cam sadly.... Like I said she doesn't hiss every time and although I try to watch them like a hawk, their free roam time lasted like half the day so I wasn't constantly hanging over them ready to film the swatting usually lasts like 1-2 seconds, blink you'll miss it kind of "fight". When it happens I'll be so focused to block them off from eachother that I never remember to do it. I've not seen them do it with ears back, which I confirmed with my Gf who has witness some of them as well.

NC's tail is unique and the only info I could find was that she might be a ringtail? Her tail is always curled over her back like a skunk. I've only seen it down sometimes when she is resting or sitting.

RC attempted play with her on one of the earlier day of free roam (he did a little short run after her but not in a hunting way). He didn't smack or try to pounce on her, but similar to his normal run when he is gonna jump into the bath tub and have fun. But NC of course was startled and smacked him which made him run off. I think RC is still curious about her but not as much as before. He even approached her when she was in her carrier yesterday to sniff her, but other times he would be very aware and cautious and it's not his normal self. He seem to enjoy reduced free roam time as he has been a bit more affectionate than usual since we reduced NC's freedom haha!

I have only let her see him thru a door crack doing meal time for now. I will slow things down and bring it back a few steps. Thank you for taking the time to respond!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Overall, I would say just keep at what you are doing, and make sure RC gets lots of loving! It sounds like NC isn't being too aggressive with RC. And, while RC may be a bit 'gun shy', that might change the less NC bothers him. No ears back is a very good thing.

There are cats who have tails that constantly curl upward, so that make sense with the videos you shared. That's just part of NC's uniqueness!

 

[littlecatt]

Just popping in to give my two cents, sounds like you've got a NC who's decided she's the boss of the house! Definitely not a bad thing, I think most cat groups have their own pecking order: who's allowed to groom who, who can call off playing by hissing if they're not in the mood, etc. When you say your RC gets scared, what exactly happens? Is there vocalizing? Does he hide? That's super encouraging he's making an attempt to play with NC. That last video is also fantastic, a nervous cat isn't going to walk past another cat to come over for pets. Wow and that second to last video with one of them on the chair! Is that RC on the chair? Really really great that he's not constantly oriented towards NC wandering around beneath him, and isn't vocalizing or looking to run from the room.

Sounds like it's actually going pretty well for three weeks, they just need some more time together! It looks like you're doing a great job keeping both cats confident in their space by giving them height, plenty of space, and love and treats for them both. Like you've been told, three weeks is NOTHING and I think there's a ton of people on here introducing adult cats who wish they were at the stage you are at three weeks! You've got two gorgeous and lovely cats, give yourself a pat on the back for staying sane during this process and putting in the work to make sure both of your kitties are comfortable. If you're really worried, definitely look into a DIY to have them be able to look at each other without getting at each other! But with the videos you've shared, I would feel very comfortable with allowing them to continue to have shared space time, especially if you haven't seen things escalating into a fight.

A user on here shared some great advice with me that we do everything we can to set up a positive introduction for our cats, but they've still got some talking to do on their own. NC's getting comfortable with her space and telling RC she's in charge. RC seems like he's responding really well and backing off when she pushes her weight around. That's totally okay, hissing isn't bad (if it's not accompanied by aggressive behavior!), it's just communication. It's super sweet that he meows at her door when she's locked up! Cats don't mind being pushed around by their buddies as much as we do, it sounds like RC has a wonderful temperament.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

Overall, I would say just keep at what you are doing, and make sure RC gets lots of loving! It sounds like NC isn't being too aggressive with RC. And, while RC may be a bit 'gun shy', that might change the less NC bothers him. No ears back is a very good thing.

There are cats who have tails that constantly curl upward, so that make sense with the videos you shared. That's just part of NC's uniqueness!

I agree with RC being gun shy. I think he always starts off eager and friendly but maybe being hissed and swatted at every day has made him cautious when he sees her. I hope if she eventually is able to tolerate him, he can become a bit confident to feel relaxed around her. Thank you!

Edit: I caught a hiss just now. There was no swat then but there was one later when I try to lure NC back to her room with treats (she hates not having freedom) and stupid RC also ran over thinking he will also get treats. When they were within inches of eachother despite my attempts to get RC away there was a hiss from NC and they both kind of stood up and made dumb looking swats with a surprisingly quiet yowl before they immediately split up again. I say dumb looking swat cus they both clearly didn't really want to commit to actually smacking the other lol

Just popping in to give my two cents, sounds like you've got a NC who's decided she's the boss of the house! Definitely not a bad thing, I think most cat groups have their own pecking order: who's allowed to groom who, who can call off playing by hissing if they're not in the mood, etc. When you say your RC gets scared, what exactly happens? Is there vocalizing? Does he hide? That's super encouraging he's making an attempt to play with NC. That last video is also fantastic, a nervous cat isn't going to walk past another cat to come over for pets. Wow and that second to last video with one of them on the chair! Is that RC on the chair? Really really great that he's not constantly oriented towards NC wandering around beneath him, and isn't vocalizing or looking to run from the room.

Sounds like it's actually going pretty well for three weeks, they just need some more time together! It looks like you're doing a great job keeping both cats confident in their space by giving them height, plenty of space, and love and treats for them both. Like you've been told, three weeks is NOTHING and I think there's a ton of people on here introducing adult cats who wish they were at the stage you are at three weeks! You've got two gorgeous and lovely cats, give yourself a pat on the back for staying sane during this process and putting in the work to make sure both of your kitties are comfortable. If you're really worried, definitely look into a DIY to have them be able to look at each other without getting at each other! But with the videos you've shared, I would feel very comfortable with allowing them to continue to have shared space time, especially if you haven't seen things escalating into a fight.

A user on here shared some great advice with me that we do everything we can to set up a positive introduction for our cats, but they've still got some talking to do on their own. NC's getting comfortable with her space and telling RC she's in charge. RC seems like he's responding really well and backing off when she pushes her weight around. That's totally okay, hissing isn't bad (if it's not accompanied by aggressive behavior!), it's just communication. It's super sweet that he meows at her door when she's locked up! Cats don't mind being pushed around by their buddies as much as we do, it sounds like RC has a wonderful temperament.

I can definitely tell she wants to be a boss! I don't mind too much but also don't want her to think she can be too bossy, like kicking RC off a spot just to take it herself even tho there are many similar spots.

RC being scared is probably just normal for lots of cats, but in my eyes I can tell it's different than his usual. Whether it's when he is hissed at or after a swat, he would run off but not far (maybe a few ft away) and just sit there looking shocked and pathetic, at NC and towards me. He often goes to that spot under the counter behind the bar stools you see in the video, but sometimes he just backs away a few feet to sit and watch. Sometimes he even lies down which is confusing for me because I'm like.. are you scared? The fights happen fast so I'm not sure if RC also vocalizes but I wouldn't be surprised if he also let's out some surprised yowl/loud meow? But they don't vocalize after the fight or when I break them up, and I've never see either one try to go after the other immediately after. The most hiding I've seen from either cats is just under the coffee table where they crouch for a few minutes before coming out voluntarily even if the other cat is still in the living room.

I'm gonna try to get some chicken coop wiring and use that on top of the pet gate to see if it helps! Tall cardboard and blankets do nothing to deter her... She just jumps right over our heads. Meanwhile our big RC just sits there politely haha

Thank you for your insight. I really appreciate the extra opinion because I know logistically it's been a short amount of time but with how both cat reacts I'm trying to make the best decision for what they tell me they want. I want NC to grow tolerant eventually and comfortable here, but I also don't want RC to start feeling uncomfortable with her around. It's definitely a balancing act!