Confusing Body Language

LittleShadow

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I'm socializing my feral kittens, and making great strides. One actively seeks petting now and pushes into it, one accepts it and may be on the way to liking it, two are getting much better, but still skitter away sometimes. The last kitten is the confusing one.

She is...very shy. Her body language is screaming that she's scared. Her belly is usually nearly dragging on the ground, her tail is clamped tightly down, her body is tense, she hides in small or enclosed spaces, or behind things. On the other hand, her ears and whiskers are relaxed and forward, her eyes about 3/4 open usually, and she'll frequently slow blink at me.

One day I spent a good 8 hours in the kitten room, and she didn't come out to eat. Worried she was sick, I put a can of freshly opened wet food at the edge of the cat tree cube she was in, then slowly edged it towards her until it was right under her nose. She didn't touch it. I risked reaching in, even with her body language, because I was very concerned by now. She didn't react at all to me gently touching her, or eventually resting my full hand over her back. I gently petted her with my fingertips and thumb, while keeping my palm still, and suddenly she just...relaxes, and starts eating. After a bit, she starts purring, then shifts to a more relaxed body pose. I removed my hand, and she hunched down and stopped eating. I returned my hand over her, and she relaxes and starts eating again.

I now find the easiest way to get her to eat is to pet her until she relaxes enough to eat, and even when there is no food, she seems to like me just reaching in and petting her. Her ears, whiskers, and eyes all say "I'm content and relaxed and lazily paying attention to you". Her body is usually screaming "I'm utterly terrified!!!!!" unless I've been petting her for a while. Even when her body is still tense, her response to me laying my hand over her is to look at me, slow blink several times, then either look away or sort of lazily stare at me with half lidded eyes, slow blinking every so often.

I'm...honestly baffled by this mismatch of body language from her. She NEVER hisses or growls or startles or moves away from being petted when she's in her cube. She does try to squirm away and get back to her cube if I try to take her out of it, usually looking around the room with wide eyes and alternately pressing back into me and trying to squirm free to slink back into her cube. If I pet her long enough in her cube, she does relax her body and sometimes starts purring and even (slightly) pushing into the petting. But it takes over ten minutes of petting to get to purring, and usually at least five for her body to relax.

Any ideas? I've ordered a sling, and started scooping her into it, inside her cube, then petting her and offering treats to get her comfortable with it. I'm planning to try laying on the bed in the room, with her in the zipped close sling next to me, so she can be covered and (hopefully) feel safe, but be out of her cube and with me, and hopefully get her a little less terrified of the world outside her cube. I'll slip her treats and pet her every so often, but try not to overstimulate her and just let her chill and get used to peeking out of the mesh window and smelling me and being safe outside of her safe zone. I'm honestly not sure what else to try. Has anyone else had a cat with such mismatched language and reactions?
 

maggie101

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My cat Coco never hisses or growls. When I first rescued her, she was under my couch for 3 months then my bedroom for a year. Finally decided to come out on her own. One of my 3 cats she is still afraid of. My cat Maggie will not eat unless I'm there. I have had her for 6 yrs. The more time I spend away from her, the more attached she gets.
 

1 bruce 1

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:wave3:
How old is she, and how long have you had the litter?
I'm no expert, but I would consider this something called "learned helplessness" or "shut down". They have no real fight in them from whatever cause their trauma in the first place. The best description I've ever heard anyone use for this sort of thing is they go along with everything with a mix of fear and compliance, because they have no other way of handling it.
I could be wrong, but she might be finding some solace in you and human hands in general, which is a good thing, but as you can see it takes time. Cats are good liars (just ask Baby Girl ;)) and good at hiding things, but if her eyes and whiskers and ears seem to like you, that's her mind talking but her body language otherwise is her instinct reactions talking (if that makes sense). Being feral doesn't help, but I think you're doing a good job.
What are your plans for this litter once they've grown?
 

di and bob

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I think she is just so terrified and confused she doesn't know what to do. On one hand her brain and body are saying DANGER, HUMAN, RUN! but then this giant scary human touches her gently and she can't help but feel pleasure and be content. She is much more emotional, more tuned to her wild side than the others. She has been much more traumatized by being captured and contained then them. It will take longer than the others to civilize her. But once she completely lets go, she will have a much stronger bond than the others too, just as she clings to her wildness, she will eventually be just as strong with her bond of love and acceptance. Do as you have been doing, stroke her, be calm and soothing. She is having a war with her instincts right now. Eventually, and it may take many months, she will realize you are to be trusted, adn tehn she will give in. It WILL happen, it just takes time, one day at a time......
 

calicosrspecial

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I have seen cats like this before. They get paralyzed from fear and can be picked up, held etc. No hissing, no fighting, etc. It is like going into a shell. It is pretty rare but does happen. What is more rare is the positive reaction you are getting and getting it so quickly.

The fact she is responding to petting AND PURRING is HUGELY important. One of the things I try to do when socializing ferals is building confidence. I use play, food, height and love. That love is a lot of things but one of them is to get them purring, to really get relaxed and feeling the love. You getting her there is such a huge step. Your emotions towards her must be so positive (you must be calm and confident and reassuring). The fact you can get her purring is so fantastic. REALLY WELL DONE!!

I am highly confident that you will help her come around and be more confident and become a happy well adjusted cat. I truly believe the human has a huge impact in how a cat progresses. Cats respond to that love and positive energy. You obviously have "it". It will take some time but I think you are going to find success. Such a heart warming post!!

Really well done!!
 

duncanmac

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I think di and bob di and bob hit it: She likes you, but can't trust you yet. It took almost three years to get my former feral to the friendly pettable cat stage. He started out as what I described as "withdrawn" at the shelter and was very cautious once we got him home. There were episodes of friendliness, but they were few and far between in the first six months. Typically, he would always be around but far away. Finally now, there's lots of pets and he seeks interaction with us, but he will still scamper away if something isn't right except now he might only move a few feet away.

Don't drag her out of her hiding space - try luring her out with treats or tuna. And don't worry about her hiding a lot - our guy still hides under our bed for what seems like no reason for hours.
 

calicosrspecial

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I totally agree with making her move in the most positive way possible. You mention scooping her into the sling. Given her body language she probably will not show displeasure BUT she may feel it. Cats typically want to move at their pace and I personally tend to follow their lead. It is a struggle balancing the desire to get a cat to make progress (which we know they will like) and not go against where they are emotionally (not ready to come out). I typically try to encourage them (with food/treats as the prior poster mentions) and it builds that positive association. And maximizing positive associations and encounters and minimizing negative ones tend to help in the process. I think you will do great with her.
 
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LittleShadow

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Hey all, sorry for the delay. I have the day off today, and most of it has been spent on an intense socializing session in the kitten room. The kitten room is a spare bedroom with two twin beds, a five foot cat tree with several platforms and the cube my shy girl hides in, a wooden cat house with a flat deck on top, some scattered toys, and their water and litter box. I bring food in several times a day, and pet the kittens while they eat.

Cloud, my shy girl, is about 10-11 weeks now, best guess. I'm just now reading this, so I didn't take into account much of the advice given, but it seems to have worked out! Earlier I tucked the sling in Cloud's cube, open, and added a bit of food. I petted her until she relaxed, then scooped her front end into the sling and resumed petting her. She climbed all the way in, I kept petting her for a bit longer, then zipped it closed and stroked her through the soft side of the sling. After a little longer, I scooped her and her sling up, and carried her over to the bed in the room and settled in with my laptop.

I opened the sling just enough for my hand, and just gently laid my hand over her back and stroked with my thumb and fingers while I read a book on my laptop. It took her a bit longer than usual for her to relax, and a good half hour for her to very, very softly purr. She settled so she was pressed against my side through the sling, and sort of just relaxed. I spent about three hours with her, alternately petting her, letting her be for a bit, petting her. I got her to purr several times, and while she was initially a bit uncertain, she seems to like the closeness of the sling.

About two hours in, she was very relaxed, so I tried gently scooping her the short distance onto my chest as I laid flat, and petted her with both hands so she felt covered. It took about 15 minutes, but she was the calmest I'd ever seen her when 'out', and she started purring again. About two minutes after she'd started purring, another of the kittens made a noise, and Cloud squirmed. I let her go, and she went right back into the sling and laid down. I spent another half hour petting her, had another cuddle on me session, again letting her go when she squirmed, and she went right back to the sling and leaned against me.

I've had a friend with me most of today, who has been helping me socialize the litter and plans to adopt two of them. After I had Cloud all relaxed again, we transferred the sling over to the bed my friend is on. My friend petted her in the sling for about 20 minutes, and Cloud curled up into the donut sleeping pose (way more relaxed than her usual plastered-to-a-wall pose!) and went to sleep.

Of course, with five kittens and (fixed!) mama in the room, it doesn't stay quiet for long. When Cloud woke up, my friend petted her again, and got purrs. My friend afterwards left the sling just open next to her, and Cloud just curled back up to go to sleep. A while later, when Cloud was awake again, my friend had a cuddle on chest session, and Cloud had very relaxed body language for once. After Cloud had enough, she scooted away, but her belly was a good inch or two off the ground, much higher than usual!

She's since climbed up to the cat tree, but she's on TOP of her cube now, instead of in it, and wonder of wonders, she's grooming herself with normal, relaxed body language in addition to her relaxed ears and face. One of the things my friend and I did today was get collars on 4 of the 5 kittens. Cloud and Ghost look almost identical, with Cloud's timid body language being the biggest hint of who is who. If it weren't for Cloud's collar, I'd think the kitten on the cube was Ghost. She's looking amazingly confident for my shy girl!

Of course, I'm expecting her to backslide, but I'm over the moon right now. I caught the kittens mid-June, and believe it or not, they've come a long way, if slowly. Initially, they were TERRIFIED of people. They hissed, growled, bit, clawed, anything they could do to get people to go away. Not even food could get them to calm down. Fortunately, mama seems to be more of an abandoned cat than a true feral, because she's tamed right down, and once I tamed mama, the kittens could be calmed by a combo of calm mama and food.

They started out in a large dog crate, until I'd been able to lay hands on all of them without panic-attack reactions. At that point, they were getting too big to keep all five in the crate like that, so I set up the kitten room, and released them all into the room. They backslid a bit then, but I'd been expecting that. I let them settle in, then started only giving wet food to kittens that came to me and let me pet them while they ate, and eventually started taking up the dry food too, and feeding them 4-6 times a day, and petting them as they ate.

For a while, all five kittens would come for food, then Cloud just suddenly stopped coming and would hide most of the time. Purritio, the only boy of the group as far as I can tell, has been getting more rambunctious, and the others have their moments of rough and tumble play too. I'm wondering if the other other kittens are just too outgoing for Cloud's shy nature to handle. Cloud has always been the shiest, but it did have a sort of sudden jump from "flinching back from pets, but coming to join the others for food" to "won't even come out for wet food, must be coaxed into eating."
 

calicosrspecial

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FANTASTIC!!! Textbook case of how to do it.

There will be ups and downs but you know what to do and you have the ability and the desire to succeed. You will succeed.

REALLY WELL DONE!!! :yess::hyper:
 
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LittleShadow

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The confusing thing is, she's this calm in the pic, but she spent almost five minutes visibly shaking while I petted her calm over at the cat tree first. But once I calmed her down, she was all for cuddles.
 

calicosrspecial

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That is actually not uncommon. The key is that she did calm down and that it was a positive experience for her. Seeing her so content is a big positive in her development. With your love she will get over it (for the most part or totally) and have a great life.

What you are doing is exactly right. Keep up the great work. It is a process and some take a little longer but cats respond to being loved and taken care of. You are doing great!!
 

duncanmac

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The confusing thing is, she's this calm in the pic, but she spent almost five minutes visibly shaking while I petted her calm over at the cat tree first. But once I calmed her down, she was all for cuddles.
Just keep sweet talking her and petting her. She will figure out you mean her no harm and are actually fun and friendly.
 
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LittleShadow

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...I had only been planning on keeping mama cat, who is a total sweetheart. I already have Molly, and wanted a companion for her. But....I think the correct term for becoming attached to a cat you meant to home is "failed foster"? Because I'm not sure I can let Cloud go...and if she's this timid and shy, chances are she's not going to be overly rambunctious with Molly. That was my main reason for not wanting to keep one of the kittens, as Molly is a senior cat who doesn't want or need tail pounces and such.
 

calicosrspecial

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:)

I think the most important thing is to go through a formal introduction process. Make positive associations, lots of play to drain some of the energy from Cloud, etc. We can help you through that.

Sometimes "failed" is a success. :yess:
 
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LittleShadow

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Oh oh my goodness. :lol: Cloud did a thing. I opened the door to the kitten room for second afternoon feeding time, and I see three kittens and mama staring at the bed, clearly a bit freaked out. I'd accidentally left a pillow on the bed after last hang out session, when I normally put them away so the kittens have fewer things to potentially potty on if accidents happen. (Fourth of July was a little...scary for them, and it was a good thing I'd prepared with waterproof mattress covers and cheap sheets.)

But on the bed, was a pillow. And that pillow...was moving. I thought a kitten had been exploring and gotten stuck in the pillow, so I went and picked it up. Cloud stares up and me, and slowly starts to cower. I gently place the pillow back on top of them and let go. A moment later...the pillow wiggles again as Cloud peeks out. Then wiggles back a bit and sort of...fake lunges the pillow at me? Then peeks again.

As far as I can tell, Cloud had discovered if they hid under the pillow, then wiggled it, the other kittens were more scared of Cloud than Cloud was of them, and ran with it. They'd probably been trying to explore a bit, gotten spooked, tried to hide, then realized they were now "bigger" than their siblings with their pillow shell. I love this kitten.
 

calicosrspecial

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How ADORABLE!!!!!

Does Cloud go on the bed a lot? How does Cloud get up there? Do you know?

Not only adorable but a great sign Cloud is exploring!!

Well done!!
 
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LittleShadow

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I have the kitten room set up in my spare bedroom, so there are two twin beds, a cat tree, a wooden cat house-cube thing, their catbox, a side table I recently brought in, and their water at all times. I bring in food multiple times a day.

Cloud likes the cubby cube in the cat tree, the cat house, the tiny space UNDER the cat house, hiding under the beds, etc. Cloud is very, very shy. But she seems to be getting bolder if today is any indication! Give me just a second, I'll go snap some pictures and edit them in!

Orange triple layer captive ball track hiding in the corner, cat tree on the right, one of the beds, the wooden cat house cube thing. Some of the highlights for the kittens! They've also dragged the sling under the bed...guess I'll be pulling that out later, oh well.

Mama on the floor, Mackerel on the bed. They're both very interested in the conversation the neighbors were having outside. Water and litter and side table they use to get up into the window. You can't see the other kittens under the bed, they knew I wanted pictures and were having none of it.

Another picture connecting the previous two. ALMOST managed to get Purrito as they went from the left bed to the right bed, but nope, juuuust missed their tail.


That cube? This is under it. That's Cloud there, hiding after her earlier bravery tired her out. Looks like I need to run the swiffer under there after she moves again....
 
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