Clicker training

[Furrywurrypurry]

just wondering if anyone has had any great success with clicker training so that I can maybe ask for some tips

So my kitten Gollum is approaching almost 15 weeks. I’ve been clicker training him for about 3 weeks now. It’s going well. He knows as soon as I pick up the clicker and comes running. He has learned so sit, I carry this across when I am feeding him and ask him to sit when I put his bowl down. He comes and taps his nose on the end of my finger when I say come, all whilst treats are present of course. I’ve just been repeating these two commands the last few weeks as I think they are two of the most important. I know I could probably teach him tricks and I likely will a little further down the line. But it’s more important to me that he grow into a cat that understands and follows basic commands, obviously for behavioural reasons but also for safety etc, if I tell him to come because he’s in danger etc he comes.
Im a little stuck though and not sure how to progress. He knows the words now and does as he is asked 95% of the time when we are doing a session. How do I move it along so that he doesn’t have to specifically know or smell that there is a treat nearby?
I still wish to reward him of course but he simply won’t do any of it unless he actually sees or smells the treats.
Do I just continue repeating and repeating or are there steps of progress. I can’t seem to find any information past the point of getting them to obey initially.
Any input is greatly appreciated

 

[iPappy]

just wondering if anyone has had any great success with clicker training so that I can maybe ask for some tips

So my kitten Gollum is approaching almost 15 weeks. I’ve been clicker training him for about 3 weeks now. It’s going well. He knows as soon as I pick up the clicker and comes running. He has learned so sit, I carry this across when I am feeding him and ask him to sit when I put his bowl down. He comes and taps his nose on the end of my finger when I say come, all whilst treats are present of course. I’ve just been repeating these two commands the last few weeks as I think they are two of the most important. I know I could probably teach him tricks and I likely will a little further down the line. But it’s more important to me that he grow into a cat that understands and follows basic commands, obviously for behavioural reasons but also for safety etc, if I tell him to come because he’s in danger etc he comes.
Im a little stuck though and not sure how to progress. He knows the words now and does as he is asked 95% of the time when we are doing a session. How do I move it along so that he doesn’t have to specifically know or smell that there is a treat nearby?
I still wish to reward him of course but he simply won’t do any of it unless he actually sees or smells the treats.
Do I just continue repeating and repeating or are there steps of progress. I can’t seem to find any information past the point of getting them to obey initially.
Any input is greatly appreciated

This is a common mistake I have made a million times
Try keeping the treats in your pocket and backing off your criteria. Instead of asking for a sit or come, say his name and when he looks at you, click and then toss the treat. Then end the session. The goal is for him to realize that the treats don't have to be present (lure, bribe etc.) and are a reward (appear when he complies.) Over time the treats can be phased out.
I haven't done this with cats, but in the past with my dogs when they're getting good at working without actually seeing the food, I ask for something simple. I click, and then make a big deal of going to where the treats are stored and giving them a jackpot (tons of tiny treats) so they start understanding it really doesn't matter where the food is when we start a session.
Everyone does things a little differently but I shape things and click for that, and when I get what I'm after, I replace the click with the word I want to use (come, sit, etc.) and reward.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

iPappy

that actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you, I’ve watched videos and so on but they are usually filmed with animals that are already very well trained, not greedy, grabby, manic kittens

 

[iPappy]

iPappy

that actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you, I’ve watched videos and so on but they are usually filmed with animals that are already very well trained, not greedy, grabby, manic kittens

. I hear you there!!! Let us know how he does!

 

[cmshap]

Everyone does things a little differently but I shape things and click for that, and when I get what I'm after

What you describe in the above post sounds brilliantly logical.

This is what I love so much about cat/dog training, and why I read about solutions to issues that don't even apply to my cat. Everything is so logical, and the solution is a matter of figuring out patterns and rewards, and adapting behaviors accordingly.

I work in IT, and part of it feels like writing a program. You think about a logical solution, implement it, test it, and it probably will not work at first. So you go back into your code, figure out what might be wrong, change it, and test again. Eventually you discover the patterns of code that are the most efficient logical shortcuts to achieving the desired output result.

Edit: of course, animals have individual personalities, but that adds another interesting layer to the challenge.

 

[iPappy]

What you describe in the above post sounds brilliantly logical.

This is what I love so much about cat/dog training, and why I read about solutions to issues that don't even apply to my cat. Everything is so logical, and the solution is a matter of figuring out patterns and rewards, and adapting behaviors accordingly.

I work in IT, and part of it feels like writing a program. You think about a logical solution, implement it, test it, and it probably will not work at first. So you go back into your code, figure out what might be wrong, change it, and test again. Eventually you discover the patterns of code that are the most efficient logical shortcuts to achieving the desired output result.

Edit: of course, animals have individual personalities, but that adds another interesting layer to the challenge.

It's fascinating stuff! When I started teaching my dog how to do scent work, I was really surprised that a clicker was NOT recommended. For one, when my dog was working the pile of articles, he was using his nose and I really couldn't click anything because I wasn't 100% sure what he was thinking. If I did click, he might have thought "Oh, bring the leather article back that sits at 2:00. Got it" and inadvertently trained him to go for a certain article based on visual, not the article I had scented. When we would do directed jumps, I would flick my eyes to the jump I wanted him to take for 1/2 second, and he'd turn his head and look at it. I'd click. I'd give him the cue to jump, and he'd take the correct one. It was an extra cue we trained, just like stepping off on my left foot was an extra cue to heel, and stepping off on my right meant to stay. Amazing stuff.
That dog was incredibly bonded to me and really seemed to love working together. We had a wonderful partnership in and out of the ring. My dog now....she has more drive to chase things, bark at things, where as Tag (my male) had no interest in these things if we were working. Training her is 100% different than Tag. She's proving to be quite the challenge.
I've also seen people use a clicker to mark a behavior but they don't always follow up with a reward until it's done multiple times. I have never tried that, but it worked very well for one lady and her dog and seemed to encourage the dog to keep working because the reward was promised and in the bag....just delayed.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

. I hear you there!!! Let us know how he does!

I will 100% report back with progress and thank you so much for the advice

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

cmshap I’ve never really engaged in structured cat training before. I’ve been around cats all my life but only got 2 cats that were exclusively mine when I got my own place 14 years ago. Honestly I can’t recall how or what I did to ‘train’ them but besides waking me in the middle of the night at times I honestly couldn’t have asked for better behaved cats. Kitchen counters were never an issue, if I could remember how or why that came to be, I could possibly bottle it and sell it. Scratching furniture, again not an issue, there was a small section of wall scratched 3 or 4 times by my boy, but nothing else, the male and female both used their many scratch posts, they never door dashed, and as indoor cats I never had to worry about open windows, I only ever opened high windows but they never attempted to get to them.
I guess what I’m saying is I agree that most of it is logical and I guess comes naturally if you look to your cat.
The reason I looked at ‘training’ is because I lost my boy, and I chose to take on a kitten who has proved to be a bit of a nuisance to my older female cat. And so it kind of sent me on a quest to see if I could temper his behaviour a little through training. I realise he’s doing normal kitten stuff wanting to chase a moving target, but still it’s an unfamiliar situation to me and so I sought information and council. My quest for information to make my old girls life a little less stressful with him (she likes him, she just doesn’t like being tackled) led me to clicker training. But doing something structured has left me a bit lost. My logic or instinct or whatever isn’t working and so that’s why I reached out and as I said it does make perfect sense. I think sometimes you need somebody to point of the obvious to you and I’m very grateful that someone has.

 

[cmshap]

cmshap I’ve never really engaged in structured cat training before.
But doing something structured has left me a bit lost. My logic or instinct or whatever isn’t working and so that’s why I reached out and as I said it does make perfect sense. I think sometimes you need somebody to point of the obvious to you and I’m very grateful that someone has.

I haven't actually engaged in much cat training at all myself, other than just correcting certain behaviors in my cat (first cat I ever owned, but had him for 8 years now).

And I wouldn't have known how to deal with a cat without reading about them and asking for advice online. When I talk about logic, the basis for that logic for me all came from learning from experts and other cat owners first about general cat behavior.

But only you can know your own cat, and that's where you have to come up with your own logic, I've found. Like what iPappy was saying about specific dogs being trained with specific personalities.

I am far from an expert on any of this, I just enjoy the subject of it.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

I haven't actually engaged in much cat training at all myself, other than just correcting certain behaviors in my cat (first cat I ever owned, but had him for 8 years now).

And I wouldn't have known how to deal with a cat without reading about them and asking for advice online. When I talk about logic, the basis for that logic for me all came from learning from experts and other cat owners first about general cat behavior.

But only you can know your own cat, and that's where you have to come up with your own logic, I've found. Like what iPappy was saying about specific dogs being trained with specific personalities.

I am far from an expert on any of this, I just enjoy the subject of it.

I so appreciate your input, and I wish I would have looked to online advice and communities sooner in my time of being a cat parent.
I thought I knew a lot but in reality I don’t know much at all, think I’ve just gotten lucky with well behaved moggies if I’m honest. I can’t really claim any credit for doing anything specific. Still definitely had issues, my boy was way too demanding, i loved it so I’m responsible . My girl is a little too shy.

I think I’m just starting all over again and wanting to do everything ‘right’ if that makes sense. Not that there is a right or wrong just I think because I’m older now I’m more conscientious or something.

 

[cmshap]

I think I’m just starting all over again and wanting to do everything ‘right’ if that makes sense. Not that there is a right or wrong just I think because I’m older now I’m more conscientious or something.

Definitely makes sense. I started from scratch with my first cat, and I had no idea what I was doing for the first few years. In fact, I did a lot wrong.

Now that he is 9, nearing 10, I want him to live as long as possible. As he was aging beyond about 5 was when I started taking cat care a lot more seriously, and doing a lot of research.

For the most part he's been an easy cat, so in his earlier years I wasn't as concerned about as much as I am now. But I always made sure he had good vet care and followed my vet's advice.

 

[iPappy]

I so appreciate your input, and I wish I would have looked to online advice and communities sooner in my time of being a cat parent.
I thought I knew a lot but in reality I don’t know much at all, think I’ve just gotten lucky with well behaved moggies if I’m honest. I can’t really claim any credit for doing anything specific. Still definitely had issues, my boy was way too demanding, i loved it so I’m responsible . My girl is a little too shy.

I think I’m just starting all over again and wanting to do everything ‘right’ if that makes sense. Not that there is a right or wrong just I think because I’m older now I’m more conscientious or something.

I understand wanting to do everything "right", but sometimes mistakes turn into happy accidents and you end up training something cuter than you intended I accidentally taught my first dog a behavior chain, by asking for the same things all in a row and never varying it. So "Sit" turned into dog would sit, then down, then roll over, then spin, etc. It wasn't what I went for, but it was really funny! My tortie unfortunately learned that me picking up a clicker means run over and sit up, which is cute but the problem is she offers nothing more. So for her, it means I need to start clicking when she loses interest and goes from sitting up to standing, looking away, etc. It's VERY time consuming to undo that, but it's fun to see them actually thinking things through.

 

[cmshap]

I understand wanting to do everything "right", but sometimes mistakes turn into happy accidents and you end up training something cuter than you intended

This is not an example of "training" on my part, but one such "happy accident."

As I mentioned before, I had no idea how to handle a cat when I picked him up from outside before the age of 1. I played with him using my hands at first, like an idiot, because I thought it was cute and he was having fun chasing my hands. When he would attack my hands at the time, it didn't hurt.

Of course, that was an idiotic move on my part, as I later learned you should never do that with a cat at any age.

I started countering that behavior, not by withdrawing my hands suddenly when he lunged (as that is what seemed to excite him before), but instead turning my hands into bigger targets by spreading them out into a full palm facing him, while simultaneously shouting "NO." That would startle him, and he would stop trying to attack my hands.

I kept up with that behavior, which eventually fully sunk in. To this day, I don't say anything, but give him "the palm" when I want him to stop doing something, and he does.

I have no idea if that works with any other cats, but it was just something I randomly decided to try, and it felt like a happy accident that it worked.

 

[daftcat75]

I don't think clicker training with cats will get the same results with dogs. Cats are differently motivated. Dogs will learn their training because they have a desire to fall in line with the alpha (you!) Cats may pick up some tricks because they are treat-motivated. But if you're thinking you'll have a cat who comes when called, that's really up to the cat. And in an emergency, forget it! Cats famously revert back to instinct in times of stress. Just ask anyone who has to apologize to the vet for their cat's bad behavior: "But she's such an angel at home."

Maybe I'm wrong. But when looking for advice on clicker training, definitely consider whether the source is talking about cats or dogs. Because things that work with dogs are not at all guaranteed to work with cats. And they may simply be jumping though your hoops for the treats, rather than the training itself. I would expect their interest in tricks to drop fast when you start rationing the reward schedule.

 

[tiggerwillow]

Two of the cats I had I tried to clicker trained. My boy Dylan, he learned to come when the clicker sounded cause he knew he was getting something good to eat

Ebony? I tried to clicker train her but for whatever reason, she decided the click sound was meaning there was a danger, and she would consistently run and hide from the scary clicker monster in case it attacked her. Exactly what about the clicker had traumatised her to the point she was never willing to stick around at the noise and would flee for her very life, we never found out, and we were never able to get her beyond that terror

 

[iPappy]

I don't think clicker training with cats will get the same results with dogs. Cats are differently motivated. Dogs will learn their training because they have a desire to fall in line with the alpha (you!) Cats may pick up some tricks because they are treat-motivated. But if you're thinking you'll have a cat who comes when called, that's really up to the cat. And in an emergency, forget it! Cats famously revert back to instinct in times of stress. Just ask anyone who has to apologize to the vet for their cat's bad behavior: "But she's such an angel at home."

Maybe I'm wrong. But when looking for advice on clicker training, definitely consider whether the source is talking about cats or dogs. Because things that work with dogs are not at all guaranteed to work with cats. And they may simply be jumping though your hoops for the treats, rather than the training itself. I would expect their interest in tricks to drop fast when you start rationing the reward schedule.

I don't believe in the alpha stuff, but, I do believe that dogs learn their training because they were purposely and selectively bred to work along side humans (aside from breeds that were developed to work alone or in pairs or packs, based on instincts alone.) But I absolutely agree that cats are an entirely different species with different motivators, stressors and instincts. It's what makes it enjoyable for me, even though I fail miserably at it a lot of the time! It's a challenge for sure.
This was going around when I started agility. IDK if the kid used a clicker or not, but I have to admit it's very, very impressive.

 

[daftcat75]

I don't believe in the alpha stuff, but, I do believe that dogs learn their training because they were purposely and selectively bred to work along side humans (aside from breeds that were developed to work alone or in pairs or packs, based on instincts alone.) But I absolutely agree that cats are an entirely different species with different motivators, stressors and instincts. It's what makes it enjoyable for me, even though I fail miserably at it a lot of the time! It's a challenge for sure.
This was going around when I started agility. IDK if the kid used a clicker or not, but I have to admit it's very, very impressive.

A lot of those tricks in the agility video are already very cat-like things. With treats, this cat probably sees this training as extension of playtime. With treats of course. You can see the cat was intently focused on the hand with the treat the whole time.

 

[iPappy]

A lot of those tricks in the agility video are already very cat-like things. With treats, this cat probably sees this training as extension of playtime. With treats of course. You can see the cat was intently focused on the hand with the treat the whole time.

Exactly. A kid having fun with her cat, and the cat is having a blast. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[maggie101]

My cat Maggie no longer needs a treat when I call her. I could never get her to come to me before
Inside The Mind Of A Cat

It is possible. After doing it so many times a treat is no longer needed

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

daftcat75
In all honesty this is one of the reasons I posted this thread, to see if anyone had had real success with cats in this regard.
All the information and videos I have watched have definitely been cat related, there is a particular guy on YouTube with a bengal that he takes pretty much everywhere in a harness, and she is trained beautifully. But as I said, it’s very different watching a demonstration from a cat that has likely been training for years, to watching the very basics of how to get started with a kitten.
Im having a lot of fun with my boy, if he does learn to do any of things im trying to impart on him then that’s a bonus.
But yeah I’m definitely questioning if it’s possible, hence the thread post