Clicker training to improve behavior

Finnegans Mom

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It's been a while since I've posted regarding Finn and his behavior issues. He's still very much a teenager at 10 months on the bright side as he gets older he seems to be slightly calmer. Unfortunately, he still has teenage behaviors that make him a menace. He has yet to totally outgrow the mouthy/chewing stage - covering charging cables and cords has helped. He's not as interested and he can't chew through the cover which has minimized damages down. I will warn others that Macbook screens are very delicate. He managed to damage 2 screens because of my lack of training and his "need" to nibble on stuff like the corners of my laptop screen. FYI if this happens to you in the first 60-90 days Amex has purchase protection which covers repairs. I recommend you purchase Apple care; because all it took was a few minutes (I forgot to close the cover when I stepped away to the bathroom) for him to damage the new screen by chewing on the corners, again. Lesson learned I won't forget to close the screen when I walk away. I'll also wait to call in the Apple Care to fix it again until he outgrows this stage. He's lucky the repairs have/will be covered and even luckier that he's really cute & I love him.

I can't just wait until he grows out of the terrible teen stage so I've been working on ways to fix his behavior. I'm pretty sure his issues are because he's smart and gets bored easily. For the record, I can't get another kitten so I play with him at least 2-3 times a day for 20-30 minutes. Without specifically trying to teach him to "fetch" his favorite activity during playtime is to play fetch the mouse. He also comes when I call his name or shake the treat container - so I'm fairly confident he'll be an easy cat to clicker train. So far I've watched a bunch of videos on youtube, read a few books/articles on clicker training, and bought the supplies needed (clicker & treats). I'm ready to start but I can't seem to find information regarding a schedule or order of skills to train first. I also can't seem to find videos that focus on behavior - the closest I could find is a video that shows how to use clicker training to teach your cat NOT to grab at treats. I'm hoping someone here can lead me to resources or answer/address the following questions/concerns: How long should I train him on a daily basis? How long do I train him on a skill before moving to the next? Is there any order to the skills I want to teach? Finally, are there specific resources that focus on using clicker training to modify his behavior? My main goals are to use clicker training to - cut his claws (he hates to be on my lap or held), keep him off places like my kitchen counters, night table, and bar cart (nothing gets in his way - why walk around objects when he can just shove the lamp, stemware over), and possibly harness train him to burn off some of that aggressive energy. I'm also hoping this will end any boredom/stress he is feeling.

Thanks in advance! I appreciate any thoughts/suggestions that might help me with this process.
 

Furballsmom

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Hi! I don't know, and you probably already checked, but does J Galaxy have any clicker training information? Or any type of training that addresses levels of skills...you might be able to find some information in guides for extreme dog training.

A couple thoughts, --How long? - I think for short durations depending on his focus. Also, each skill that he learns needs to be kept in rotation of training.
 
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daftcat75

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I didn't get very far with Krista and her clicker training. Not because she wasn't getting it. I think we just got distracted by a health issue and never returned to it.

It's my understanding that a clicker is a lot more effective at reinforcing behaviors you want than correcting those you don't. For example, if you want to teach your cat to come to you, you can call, click, and reward when he comes. Now you can also refine that to have him come to a spot once he learns to come to the click. Further, you expand upon this to have him come to the spot where you intend to cut his nails. Cut a nail. Click. Give him a treat. Let him go. Once you have this down over several days to a week, you can try to cut more than one nail at a time. Click and reward every nail he lets you cut. Eventually, you can switch to intermittent rewarding where not every click gets a treat. This makes your cat work harder for the treats because he heard the click and did the behavior but where's the treat? You can also do "jackpotting" where one treat in a blue moon is a handful of treats or an extra special treat. Now he'll work even harder at the trained behaviors because he wants to know how to get that jackpot again.

Now given that you've taught him to do a behavior in response to the click to get rewarded with a treat, how do you suppose you would construct a behavior-correction for the screen chewing? If you click to come when he's mid-chew, that will get him to stop chewing. But from the cat's perspective, he has learned that chewing the screen will get him a reward because you're going to click him away. That's not what you want to teach. I think you're just going to have to be diligent with putting things away, covering them up, closing the screen until he outgrows this. Save the clicker for behaviors you want to teach and reinforce.
 

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The woman who runs the local TNR group does a clicker for all feedings as it allows her to count heads, feed at one time, clean up, etc. She swears by it; however, I have never done it for a cat.

Of course, this makes perfect sense because she wants to reinforce that the cats show up and they gladly do so for food. I am not trying to be discouraging, but clicker training is for reinforcement....and you might be able to figure out how to reinforce not eating expensive electronics...not saying you can't. But be careful that Finn does not think that the click and reward is for taking out another Waterford tumbler.

Any consolation....your post is very humorous and Finn sounds like a character.....as you call Apple one more time.
 
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Finnegans Mom

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Hi! I don't know, and you probably already checked, but does J Galaxy have any clicker training information? Or any type of training that addresses levels of skills...you might be able to find some information in guides for extreme dog training.

A couple thoughts, --How long? - I think for short durations depending on his focus. Also, each skill that he learns needs to be kept in rotation of training.
Thanks for answering me Furballsmom.

I have searched quite a bit and I haven't seen any youtube postings by J Galaxy demoing/showing clicker training specifically. He does highly recommend it, so his books might have some info as part of a chapter. Unfortunately, I'm currently unemployed so I'm trying to spend only when I absolutely have to.

Has anyone done the program/or have info about Cat School? Learn How To Clicker Train Your Cat – Teach Your Cat To Fist Bump It's the only website/resource I've found that even addresses using clicker training for behavior. Julie's videos on youtube are impressive. I was hoping someone here might have ideas but I might just bite the bullet and pay for her program.
 

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Finnegans Mom

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I didn't get very far with Krista and her clicker training. Not because she wasn't getting it. I think we just got distracted by a health issue and never returned to it.

It's my understanding that a clicker is a lot more effective at reinforcing behaviors you want than correcting those you don't. For example, if you want to teach your cat to come to you, you can call, click, and reward when he comes. Now you can also refine that to have him come to a spot once he learns to come to the click. Further, you expand upon this to have him come to the spot where you intend to cut his nails. Cut a nail. Click. Give him a treat. Let him go. Once you have this down over several days to a week, you can try to cut more than one nail at a time. Click and reward every nail he lets you cut. Eventually, you can switch to intermittent rewarding where not every click gets a treat. This makes your cat work harder for the treats because he heard the click and did the behavior but where's the treat? You can also do "jackpotting" where one treat in a blue moon is a handful of treats or an extra special treat. Now he'll work even harder at the trained behaviors because he wants to know how to get that jackpot again.

Now given that you've taught him to do a behavior in response to the click to get rewarded with a treat, how do you suppose you would construct a behavior-correction for the screen chewing? If you click to come when he's mid-chew, that will get him to stop chewing. But from the cat's perspective, he has learned that chewing the screen will get him a reward because you're going to click him away. That's not what you want to teach. I think you're just going to have to be diligent with putting things away, covering them up, closing the screen until he outgrows this. Save the clicker for behaviors you want to teach and reinforce.
Thanks for the reply.... it totally makes sense that C+R reinforces good behavior. I get the feeling that cats with challenging personalities train us (LOL) I guess I can hope that the chewing is caused by boredom and training is entertaining enough. Then once he's trained if I think he might be heading towards trouble I can call him/distract him BEFORE he causes havoc?

I love the idea of "jackpotting" and will try to incorporate it. I'm getting the feeling from the responses is that the big difference between training dogs and cats is consistency. i.e you teach a puppy to sit at 6 months he knows it forever. teach a kitten and if you don't train/reinforce on a regular basis they forget the skill.
 
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Finnegans Mom

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Does this provide enough information for you to work with?
Clicker Train Your Cats The Cat Pawsitive Way! - Jackson Galaxy

I'm not sure if the information in this is a duplicate of what's above;
http://www.thejacksongalaxyproject.org/2018-Cat-Pawsitive-Clicker-Training-Basics-Handout-FINAL.pdf

Here's a video I found;



This person is recommended by JG, and the library she has might provide you with some sources;

Clicker Training Library | Karen Pryor Clicker Training
Thanks for these links. I think I saw both of them before I was sold on the idea. I forgot about Jackson's because the info was SO basic. On the other hand, the Karen Pryor stuff was way too intense. Now that I'm more familiar they will both be helpful resources.
 

daftcat75

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Thanks for the reply.... it totally makes sense that C+R reinforces good behavior. I get the feeling that cats with challenging personalities train us (LOL) I guess I can hope that the chewing is caused by boredom and training is entertaining enough. Then once he's trained if I think he might be heading towards trouble I can call him/distract him BEFORE he causes havoc?

I love the idea of "jackpotting" and will try to incorporate it. I'm getting the feeling from the responses is that the big difference between training dogs and cats is consistency. i.e you teach a puppy to sit at 6 months he knows it forever. teach a kitten and if you don't train/reinforce on a regular basis they forget the skill.
Yes. Cats train us. So much easier to learn how your cat gets in trouble and eliminate those opportunities than to teach your cat not to get into trouble.

I think he’ll outgrow the chewing. Many cats do. It’s a stage they go through. Just be diligent about taking away the opportunity rather than trying to catch and correct the behavior.

Consistency is key. Both in training and your own diligence about eliminating opportunities for trouble. Cats will continuously test their environment. Krista used to jump onto kitchen counters. I tried so hard to “teach” her out of this with double sided tape on the counters or aluminum foil or the motion detection air spray (Ssscat.) Even when I thought Krista had learned, she’d test when I lowered my guard. When I removed the deterrents from the counter (which she can’t see anyway), she’d resume the behavior because she’s always testing. Eventually I decided that the biggest risk was her licking up leftovers or anything I hadn’t cleaned yet. So I figured she’s teaching me to be a better housekeeper. I used to say, “if I don’t do the dishes, Krista will.” I came to peace with the behavior because I removed the opportunity for trouble. Eventually I learned to enjoy and encourage an alternate behavior. I liked it when she would join me on the sink counter where I prep her food. I built her a path to get up there. It kept her off the stove counter more often. Not completely. Cats continuously test!

Maybe don’t put things where he can knock them over. Maybe get a case for things you’d like to display without worrying about his decorator tastes. 😹 Or maybe you look at why he’s up there in the first place and provide him a better alternative. If he has trees and shelves and paths or even just stacks of boxes that he’s allowed and encouraged to walk on and explore, he might not find those other places so appealing. Most of the time when correcting bad behavior with cats, you have to think, “what’s the appeal? Can I frustrate it? or can I provide an acceptable alternative?”
 
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Finnegans Mom

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Yes. Cats train us. So much easier to learn how your cat gets in trouble and eliminate those opportunities than to teach your cat not to get into trouble.

I think he’ll outgrow the chewing. Many cats do. It’s a stage they go through. Just be diligent about taking away the opportunity rather than trying to catch and correct the behavior.

Consistency is key. Both in training and your own diligence about eliminating opportunities for trouble. Cats will continuously test their environment. Krista used to jump onto kitchen counters. I tried so hard to “teach” her out of this with double sided tape on the counters or aluminum foil or the motion detection air spray (Ssscat.) Even when I thought Krista had learned, she’d test when I lowered my guard. When I removed the deterrents from the counter (which she can’t see anyway), she’d resume the behavior because she’s always testing. Eventually I decided that the biggest risk was her licking up leftovers or anything I hadn’t cleaned yet. So I figured she’s teaching me to be a better housekeeper. I used to say, “if I don’t do the dishes, Krista will.” I came to peace with the behavior because I removed the opportunity for trouble. Eventually I learned to enjoy and encourage an alternate behavior. I liked it when she would join me on the sink counter where I prep her food. I built her a path to get up there. It kept her off the stove counter more often. Not completely. Cats continuously test!

Maybe don’t put things where he can knock them over. Maybe get a case for things you’d like to display without worrying about his decorator tastes. 😹 Or maybe you look at why he’s up there in the first place and provide him a better alternative. If he has trees and shelves and paths or even just stacks of boxes that he’s allowed and encouraged to walk on and explore, he might not find those other places so appealing. Most of the time when correcting bad behavior with cats, you have to think, “what’s the appeal? Can I frustrate it? or can I provide an acceptable alternative?”
Thanks for the feedback/thoughts..... He has a fairly big cat tree situation on the other side of the room (by the window for cat TV). I decided to move it next to the couch (where my bar rack is) so it's closer to me. He also has a smaller scratching triangle/cave (see pics below) that I move around with me. I also bought lot's of the double-sided tape (he just walked over it giving me dirty looks) that I actually started to use to "tape things down" That has definitely helped. I'm working on more intense cat proofing/organization ideas that will hopefully help. The good news is I tried a little clicker training (focusing on him not grabbing treats/going where I pointed) right before I started cooking tonight and it actually helped. He sat on the floor watching me for the most part. When he did jump on the counter he just sat nicely watching and not grabbing at the food. I'm going to call it a win!
Yes. Cats train us. So much easier to learn how your cat gets in trouble and eliminate those opportunities than to teach your cat not to get into trouble.

I think he’ll outgrow the chewing. Many cats do. It’s a stage they go through. Just be diligent about taking away the opportunity rather than trying to catch and correct the behavior.

Consistency is key. Both in training and your own diligence about eliminating opportunities for trouble. Cats will continuously test their environment. Krista used to jump onto kitchen counters. I tried so hard to “teach” her out of this with double sided tape on the counters or aluminum foil or the motion detection air spray (Ssscat.) Even when I thought Krista had learned, she’d test when I lowered my guard. When I removed the deterrents from the counter (which she can’t see anyway), she’d resume the behavior because she’s always testing. Eventually I decided that the biggest risk was her licking up leftovers or anything I hadn’t cleaned yet. So I figured she’s teaching me to be a better housekeeper. I used to say, “if I don’t do the dishes, Krista will.” I came to peace with the behavior because I removed the opportunity for trouble. Eventually I learned to enjoy and encourage an alternate behavior. I liked it when she would join me on the sink counter where I prep her food. I built her a path to get up there. It kept her off the stove counter more often. Not completely. Cats continuously test!

Maybe don’t put things where he can knock them over. Maybe get a case for things you’d like to display without worrying about his decorator tastes. 😹 Or maybe you look at why he’s up there in the first place and provide him a better alternative. If he has trees and shelves and paths or even just stacks of boxes that he’s allowed and encouraged to walk on and explore, he might not find those other places so appealing. Most of the time when correcting bad behavior with cats, you have to think, “what’s the appeal? Can I frustrate it? or can I provide an acceptable alternative?”

Thanks for the feedback/thoughts..... He has a fairly big cat tree situation on the other side of the room (by the window for cat TV). I decided to move it next to the couch (where my bar rack is) so it's closer to me. He also has a smaller scratching triangle/cave (see pics below) that I move around with me. I also bought lot's of the double-sided tape (he just walked over it giving me dirty looks) that I actually started to use to "tape things down" That has definitely helped. I'm working on more intense cat proofing/organization ideas that will hopefully help. The good news is I tried a little clicker training (focusing on him not grabbing treats/going where I pointed) right before I started cooking tonight and it actually helped. He sat on the floor watching me for the most part. When he did jump on the counter he just sat nicely watching and not grabbing at the food. I'm going to call it a win!



Finns cat tree.jpg
Finns playhouse.jpeg
finn hiding.jpeg
Finn playing.jpg
 

fionasmom

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He is a beautiful cat and you can see from his eyes that he is very bright. I am glad to hear that you are having success with the clicker and that his behavior is improving.
 
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