Clavamox and probiotics question

sos2484

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Hi…. Oliver came home from the hospital this morning after being admitted on Friday. He had a kidney infection.
2/1 his creatinine was 2.2 and 2/11 it was 3.1. After fluids and antibiotics, he’s back to 2.3.
My first question is the dr keeps saying it’s kidney disease. If they have an infection, is that the same or the start of kidney disease?

Second question is I want to get him back on probiotics. He was on Proviable and then I got adored beast healthy gut and healthy beast gut soothe.
I have to give him the first dose of clavamox about 3. Is either of the adored beast probiotics I mentioned good for this or should I keep him on Proviable for awhile until he’s off the antibiotics? And I think I read to wait hours between antibiotics and probiotics.
He also hasn’t eaten much today. They gave me mirtaz. How far in advance do I have to give that so that he eats before I give the clavamox? Any answers would be appreciated! Thank you!
 

FeebysOwner

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Hi. I don't think that a kidney infection is automatically considered kidney disease in the way most of us tend to think of kidney disease, but some of that is dependent on what caused the infection. Is this an actual kidney infection or a urinary tract infection? Either way a kidney infection would likely be classified as a disease, given it is an infection. His creatinine is really not that bad at this point for me to think of it in the most 'traditional' sense. Perhaps, ask your vet for clarification about the label 'kidney disease'.

Kidney infections can take a long time to clear up - usually meaning a whole lot more than just a couple of weeks of antibiotics. Some cases can require many weeks to months of treatment. Having said that you might be better off giving your cat saccharomyces boulardii, as I have read it is not impacted by antibiotics like most other probiotics are - I believe that is because it is yeast based and is not killed off by antibiotics.

As far as the appetite stimulant - is it Mirataz or Mirtazapine? The latter is in pill/liquid (oral) form, the formal is a transdermal gel that is rubbed into the pinnae of a cat's ear. In any case, the oral might take a day or so to take effect, so you probably need to find a way to get nourishment in him while you wait to see how long it actually takes. MIrataz can work within hours sometimes, but not always. Just be careful of the dosage, as sometimes if given at too high of a dose, especially to start off with, it can cause some aggravation in cats. Most folks start out with NO more than 1.8mg in tablet form. So, that can be dauting if you were given a 15mg pill. The gel is best started off at 1ml, which is half the 'standard' dosage. Mirtazapine would be best given with food too, as is true with the antibiotics as well.

What will your cat eat? Even something like baby food meat (Gerber Stage 2 or Beechnut) might be a good thing to try, as it seems even cats who don't feel well like it. It isn't nutritionally complete for a cat but starting off with it to get him eating again, is OK. Most vets carry Hill's Restorative A/D canned food, which a lot of cats like too, and it is full of nutrients - often used with ill cats to help them to start eating again. Did the vet mention using an oral syringe to feed him if he won't eat on his own initially? Both the baby foods and the A/D can be mixed with water to make a slurry that can be easily given by mouth through a syringe.
 
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sos2484

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Hi.. last night he started eating gradually and through the night. So that’s one less thing to worry about.
I heard the s boulardii can have a taste to it and Oliver will sniff it right out. Is that true that there is a taste or smell?
 

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I have never tasted it, so not sure. There are many members on this site who not only give it to their cats, but they also take it as well. Hopefully, some of them will see your post and respond to let you know!
 

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Hi.. last night he started eating gradually and through the night. So that’s one less thing to worry about.
I heard the s boulardii can have a taste to it and Oliver will sniff it right out. Is that true that there is a taste or smell?

S. boulardii products that contain MOS may taste icky to some cats. The MOS is supposed to help the S. boulardii work better. You can get S. boulardii products that do not contain MOS such as DrFormulas Nexabiotic Saccharomyces Boulardii Probiotics 10 Billion CFUs (Just S boulardii), 60 Stomach Acid Resistant Capsules

Prebiotics & Probiotics for Cats: Healing Inflammation and gut dysbiosis
 
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sos2484

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Just got some test results in. Negative for infection, I assume that is urinary. No cancer cells found in spleen on FNA. So basically I’m back to square one, he ate soil. He’s had four ultrasounds, 2 FNA’s, 2 X-rays and they can’t find anything wrong. I keep saying he ate soil, he needs an antibiotic for a fungal infection. No one will listen.
 

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So, you were told before it was a kidney infection, but now they are saying no? What were the antibiotics for, then?

Sorry, I don't mean to frustrate you further, but what/when/why were all these test run? Can you share more information/details?
 
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sos2484

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So, you were told before it was a kidney infection, but now they are saying no? What were the antibiotics for, then?

Sorry, I don't mean to frustrate you further, but what/when/why were all these test run? Can you share more information/details?
I think she meant negative for UTI. Does that make sense? I was so stunned that I couldn’t ask many questions. So I guess the antibiotics were for a kidney infection. Or do the fluids take care of the infection?
Since 10/27, when he ingested soil which I believe had toxins in it, he hasn’t been the same. Bloodwork is always good but they go right to a cancer diagnosis. This is not a coincidence that he threw up and there happened to be soil in his vomit. You don’t get cancer or FIP or any of the other ridiculous things they diagnosed a perfectly healthy cat with just because he ate soil. I won’t let anyone do another test except to find out if there is a fungal infection. All of his issues are GI related. He doesn’t have IBD. Never had diarrhea in his life and vomit was very infrequent. He ate anything I put in front of him, any cat food and never got a weird belly. Nothing makes sense except the one thing no one will listen to.
 

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If he had a kidney infection, the odds are pretty good it would have shown up in a urine test. So, while I am not a vet, I cannot imagine a kidney infection not showing up as a UTI. Urine produced in the kidneys and passed through to the bladder and out of the body is not going to miraculously have bacteria disappear. And no, fluids are not going to rid the body of an infection, unless possibly they contained some seriously strong antibiotics that work nearly overnight. Again, I am saying that not really knowing the timeline of all these tests/meds..

Toxins in the soil - if damage were to have been done - would more likely show up as liver issues. Even, if for some reason, they affected the kidney function, that too should have been prevalent in the blood work results, IMO.

I think at this time, you need to ask for all the test results, including written reports related to them - they are yours for free (you paid for them already when the tests were run), and then search for another vet from a different practice (to avoid colleague bias). Ask friends/family/neighbors/co-workers for recommendations.

Once you have that data, if anything about the FNAs, ultrasounds, and etc. are something you would like to share here, we will be happy to take a look.
 

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Is it possible to take a sample of the soil to the vet or maybe send off to a university extension program to analyze to determine what toxins it may contain?
 
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sos2484

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So, you were told before it was a kidney infection, but now they are saying no? What were the antibiotics for, then?

Sorry, I don't mean to frustrate you further, but what/when/why were all these test run? Can you share more information/details?
I really appreciate all of the information here and I look things up here before I do anything just to see opinions and experiences. You could never frustrate me by listening.
 

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Is it possible to take a sample of the soil to the vet or maybe send off to a university extension program to analyze to determine what toxins it may contain?
Not a bad idea! The only problem would be is if whatever was in the soil back in October is no longer in the soil. But, still, something to consider...
 
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sos2484

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Is it possible to take a sample of the soil to the vet or maybe send off to a university extension program to analyze to determine what toxins it may contain?
I threw the soil away. This started back in early November.
 
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sos2484

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Not a bad idea! The only problem would be is if whatever was in the soil back in October is no longer in the soil. But, still, something to consider...
Right but I threw the soil away and the plant.
 

FeebysOwner

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Right but I threw the soil away and the plant.
Bummer! So, I guess it is back to what I said before. Repeated here below, in case you missed it!
If he had a kidney infection, the odds are pretty good it would have shown up in a urine test. So, while I am not a vet, I cannot imagine a kidney infection not showing up as a UTI. Urine produced in the kidneys and passed through to the bladder and out of the body is not going to miraculously have bacteria disappear. And no, fluids are not going to rid the body of an infection, unless possibly they contained some seriously strong antibiotics that work nearly overnight. Again, I am saying that not really knowing the timeline of all these tests/meds..

Toxins in the soil - if damage were to have been done - would more likely show up as liver issues. Even, if for some reason, they affected the kidney function, that too should have been prevalent in the blood work results, IMO.

I think at this time, you need to ask for all the test results, including written reports related to them - they are yours for free (you paid for them already when the tests were run), and then search for another vet from a different practice (to avoid colleague bias). Ask friends/family/neighbors/co-workers for recommendations.

Once you have that data, if anything about the FNAs, ultrasounds, and etc. are something you would like to share here, we will be happy to take a look.
 

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S. boulardii has a bready smell and taste to it. Some cats really enjoy it. Some don't. If yours doesn't, don't despair. You can take the s. boulardii yourself anytime you are prescribed antibiotics. The nice thing about s. boulardii is that because it is yeast-based, it is not affected by the antibiotics. That means you don't have to space out the antibiotics and s. boulardii like you do with probiotics. And I've always wondered if giving probiotics along side with antibiotics isn't just distracting the antibiotics with irrelevant targets. The antibiotics don't discriminate between good and bad bacteria.
 
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sos2484

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If he had a kidney infection, the odds are pretty good it would have shown up in a urine test. So, while I am not a vet, I cannot imagine a kidney infection not showing up as a UTI. Urine produced in the kidneys and passed through to the bladder and out of the body is not going to miraculously have bacteria disappear. And no, fluids are not going to rid the body of an infection, unless possibly they contained some seriously strong antibiotics that work nearly overnight. Again, I am saying that not really knowing the timeline of all these tests/meds..

Toxins in the soil - if damage were to have been done - would more likely show up as liver issues. Even, if for some reason, they affected the kidney function, that too should have been prevalent in the blood work results, IMO.

I think at this time, you need to ask for all the test results, including written reports related to them - they are yours for free (you paid for them already when the tests were run), and then search for another vet from a different practice (to avoid colleague bias). Ask friends/family/neighbors/co-workers for recommendations.

Once you have that data, if anything about the FNAs, ultrasounds, and etc. are something you would like to share here, we will be happy to take a look.
I have all the reports, etc. up until this past visit.
I know the creatinine was high and white blood cells were high but I have to get that report. I went back to my old vet that I trust but he got involved after it all started, so he’s reading all the reports and there are a lot
S. boulardii has a bready smell and taste to it. Some cats really enjoy it. Some don't. If yours doesn't, don't despair. You can take the s. boulardii yourself anytime you are prescribed antibiotics. The nice thing about s. boulardii is that because it is yeast-based, it is not affected by the antibiotics. That means you don't have to space out the antibiotics and s. boulardii like you do with probiotics. And I've always wondered if giving probiotics along side with antibiotics isn't just distracting the antibiotics with irrelevant targets. The antibiotics don't discriminate between good and bad bacteria.
thank you for the info. They took him off antibiotics.
 
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sos2484

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Bummer! So, I guess it is back to what I said before. Repeated here below, in case you missed it!
He was on unasyn first in the ER. Then clavamox. But she said stop the clavamox because he was negative.
What if it wasn’t a toxin that got to his liver but something that irritated his intestines so incredibly? Is that possible?
 

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He was on unasyn first in the ER. Then clavamox. But she said stop the clavamox because he was negative. What if it wasn’t a toxin that got to his liver but something that irritated his intestines so incredibly? Is that possible?
There is no way to know that at this point. I am hoping that your regular vet reviewing all the tests/results will give you some more to go on. That is a lot of tests, and the results should help your regular vet determine what might be the next steps. Keep us posted, please!
 
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sos2484

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There is no way to know that at this point. I am hoping that your regular vet reviewing all the tests/results will give you some more to go on. That is a lot of tests, and the results should help your regular vet determine what might be the next steps. Keep us posted, please!
I will… thank you!
 
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