Chestnut: Urinating Blood Clots - history of Crystals Need ADVICE!!! thanks

[2Cats4everLoved]

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• 2Cats4everLoved
• Nov 5, 2016

Before I start, let me say that I'm waiting for a call back from the vet.

Chestnut had crystals last January and was the reason for me finding this site. and then as most of you know my boy Simon was diagnosed with cancer and he became my main focus.

I guess what I'm looking for is anyone who has had experience with the blood clotting int he urine, and hoping that you can supply me with questions and educate me for my visit with the vet.

So last week, Chestnut's urine was a little pink, and she sneezed, the last time she sneezed she had crystals.  She had been constipated, but finally went and she seemed good to go.  

She is overweight, last year she was 20.5 lbs, and I've been watching her feeding and I think she has gone down to 18 maybe?  I'll find out later.

She's been on the Royal Canin urinary SO wet and on the SO calorie controlled dry (she only gets just under a 1/4 cup every other day)  so she's been mostly wet now.

I do add lots of water to the food and semi blend it.  It was making her constipated so every so often I'll add a little pumpkin to it.

This morning around 4am, she got up as she always does, and pooped "lots", so I knew she was good, but then she was crying a bit, but I didn't sleep well and kind of rolled back over, but when hubby got up for work and turned on the lights around 5, there was more poop, and spots of very pink urine all over the kitchen floor, a couple of spots had clots in them.  

I wiped her down, cleaned up all the spots, and she started using the box again and when I wiped her the urine was clear.  

She wanted her wet food, so I fed her a little and she drank most of the loose water, then she was chirping as she always does and jumped up on the table where she likes to lay,  I was surprised she wanted to jump up.  But soon after she had to pee again and I put her back down on the floor, she went to the box, peed and was laying on the floor, so I started brushing her and she relaxed and was dozing off on the floor.

I then fixed the living room chair for her, with old blankets and a towel, and picked her up off the floor, put her on the chair, where she started purring calmly and now she's passed out snoring in a deep sleep,  

Back in January the "Old" vet had her on baytril, which I think added to her bad eyesight, and clavamox, due to her weight we went through 4 bottles.

Any advice regarding what to ask the doctor or what I might expect would be greatly appreciated.

Below are pictures of the clots.

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• 2Cats4everLoved
• Nov 5, 2016

 

[tabbytom]

Oh dear, 2Cats4everLoved, I'm not much of a help here but when I saw your post, I must tell you that I'm concern too. I hope someone will give you some advice.
Hope that Chestnut get the right treatment and get well soon

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

Oh dear, 2Cats4everLoved, I'm not much of a help here but when I saw your post, I must tell you that I'm concern too. I hope someone will give you some advice.
Hope that Chestnut get the right treatment and get well soon

Thanks @TabbyTom

I think she'll be okay, but this is her first time seeing this new vet.  We stopped going to the other vet after we took her last year and they made me feel like crap and a bad mommy, and I honestly think that they over medicated.  So when Simon got sick, this new vet was recommended by our local mom and pop pet shop who've been in the neighborhood for over 20 years.  And he was great as well as his staff.

But he's a straight shooter and a no nonsense guy, so I want to make sure I ask all the right questions and honestly reading up on the interweb is giving me a headache so I thought I'd just ask.

Give your sweet boy January a big smooch for me. LOL

Thanks again for the support.

 

[tabbytom]

Thanks @TabbyTom


I think she'll be okay, but this is her first time seeing this new vet.  We stopped going to the other vet after we took her last year and they made me feel like crap and a bad mommy, and I honestly think that they over medicated.  So when Simon got sick, this new vet was recommended by our local mom and pop pet shop who've been in the neighborhood for over 20 years.  And he was great as well as his staff.

But he's a straight shooter and a no nonsense guy, so I want to make sure I ask all the right questions and honestly reading up on the interweb is giving me a headache so I thought I'd just ask.

Give your sweet boy January a big smooch for me. LOL

Thanks again for the support.

Good to hear that you switched to a better ver and doing your homework. I'm so sorry that I can't help you in this area.
Sure, I'll smooch January for you and please hug Chestnut for me [emoji]10084[/emoji]️

 

[missmimz]

I'd get her off that dry food ASAP. Not only because any dry food is bad for cats with a history of urinary issues but it will also help her lose weight, which can also be part of what's causing these reoccurring issues. You might look into giving her a daily dose of slippery elm or D-mannose to help. Is her urine pH high? Do you have a water fountain to encourage drinking? 

Info on both slippery elm and d-mannose

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/urinary-tract-disorders-in-cats/

 

[red top rescue]

When y FLUTD cat came in she was peeing blood constantly and her urinary pH was high (7.5) and that meant she probably had crystals (struvite crystals dissolve in adicic pH urine, which is natural to cats, but form in neutral (7.0) if urine is concnentrated, and at more alkaline pH (higher than 7.0) even if urine is not concentrated.  I used a combination of NATURALLY high protein (animal not vegetable) and low carb food (Sheba, 4Health turkey & giblets), took her off all dry food, fed her frequently, added L-methionine to her food for awhile to help dissolve the crystals and tested her urine constantly whenever she peed which was frequently and anywhere she felt like it when she was sick.  When her pH reading would be anything over 6.5, I would give her an acidifying treatment with Organic Bragg's apple cider vinegar mixed with water, 4 parts water to 1 part vinegar, and give 1 cc of that by mouth every half hour until the pH came down, usually after 3 doses of the vinegar mix.  I can send you some of the testing strips if you would use them.  I never went to the prescription foods for her, don't like the ingredients, and they just try to change the pH using chemicals instead of using a naturally balanced diet.  This worked for her.  It has been a year now and she never has had a recurrence once I got her into recovery from the bloody cystitis, which took about 3 weeks in all. 

You can also order your own pH strips on eBay, just find someone who ships fast or let me know and I will mail them.  I still have your address.  The blood is usually caused by  microscopic crystals irritating the wall of the bladder and the urethra.  If you change the pH to keep it in normally acidic range for a cat (6.0 to 6.5), the crystals will dissolve and then there is no bleeding.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laboratory-...998788?hash=item2a461e0484:g:pDoAAOSwirZTxOdv

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

Hello, thanks for getting back to me.

@missmimz  - in all honestly, she doesn't even eat the dry, if she eats 20 crunchies a week it's a lot.  I'm most confident it was from the Sheba I fed her.  Thank you so much for your response, and I'll check out the links you posted.  

@Red Top Rescue  -   Hey there old friend, Thanks for your response.  I had been feeding her the Royal Canin U SO, and she became very bloated and constipated.  So after reading over her adoption papers from years ago, they said NO FISH.  So I did my research and found few Fancy Feasts, and Friskies Country Dinner that have no fish, and every other day she had been getting one serving, usually at breakfast, of that food, also with a little pumpkin and I have been giving her a few drops of the apple cider vinegar daily.

Those blood spots in the picture above are actually chunks of blood clots, it was the strangest thing.

Now, looking back (it's a good thing I've been keeping records) I gave her the Sheba Chicken - the orange and black label.  It was after feeding her this, she sneezed and the next morning she was having issues.

This happened during the summer also after eating Sheba.

Her PH level is good, I've been checking it weekly and now daily.  I have strips that I use for my fish tank.

I got her back on the RC U SO wet only with pumpkin, and gave her a half can of FF Turkey & Giblets, and she had a healthy bowel movement and has been peeing normal since last Saturday night.

We have yet to bring her to the new vet, but I unfortunately have doctors this week and next, and I really need to get myself taken care of.  This is the tough part of caring for our wee ones.  I feel guilty, but I put off my health since Simon was ill.  My poor hubby had been slammed by work for the past few months, so hopefully now we'll have more time.  

My sweet girl has been in good spirits and I think finally realized that Simon won't come running out and take over when playing.

She even started playing by herself the other morning, lol it was the sweetest thing to watch her having fun.

RedTop, I may send you a message to discuss further what you did for your kitties with crystal tendencies. 

Thanks again.

Chestnut and I thanks you both.

 

[tabbytom]

2Cats4everLoved,

Glad that Chestnut's getting better and in good spirit. Hope that she stays good and get well completely.

January sends his love to you, Chestnut and Simon [emoji]128149[/emoji]

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

2Cats4everLoved,

Glad that Chestnut's getting better and in good spirit. Hope that she stays good and get well completely.

January sends his love to you, Chestnut and Simon [emoji]128149[/emoji]

Thanks @TabbyTom- Chess is sleeping soundly at the moment, but she has been more active.  After next week I'll take her in, and it will be all about keeping her healthy.  

My sweet boy Simon passed last June, but I'm sure he's looking over January and all the other sweet angels we have here at TCS.

Give your boy a big smooch for me. LOL  Be well my TCS friend, thank you for the support.

Warm regards, Hope & my sweet gal, Chestnut

 

[Loving Mickey]

2Cats4everLoved

Hi Hope,
Just seeing this thread now, and wondering how your sweet Chestnut is doing. Also, how are you doing? Yes, you do need to take care of yourself as well, so you can take care of Chestnut. I know how we worry when our kitties are ill and fail to take proper care of ourselves. I have done that as well.
However, we need to take care of ourselves for our kitties. Remember, Chestnut needs you to be well for her.
Give your sweet kitty a hug from me and my kitties, and yourself as well.
Take Care of YOU and Chestnut!
I will be thinking of you both!
Your TCS friend, Gloria

 

[darkhorse321]

Now, I can't say this is safe, and this did NOT come from a vet, but it worked for me/my first kitty Sunshine.

This was also wayyy back in the early 1990s, when vet medicine had not advanced like it has today. My dear Sunshine was a DSH dark tabby, and ever since we'd gotten her, she had bladder issues. She peed a lot on carpets in our big house, and continued this trend when we moved to a smaller home. My mom was unimpressed. We had a bad vet at the time, and no one would take us to the vet I preferred. My mom ended up buying a heavy plastic cover for her persian rug, for which Sunny peed on and you could see it was thick and bloody. I felt awful and we rushed her to the vet asap, to find that, (as usual), this crappy vet had zero advice. She was put on antibiotics and prednisone, but I didn't see much of a change.

A friend of mine said one of her kitties had a similar issue and that what cured it was adding salt to the kitties wet food. Not a ton, but just a little extra. She said that the salt not only made the kitty drink more water, but it helped with flushing out the crystals----I honestly can't remember the specifics since it was over 30 yrs ago, but ...it worked!! Sunny never had bladder issues after that--and I only had to salt her food 2x!!!

I was very happy that my mom finally let me take our kitties to our excellent vet (a bit of a drive from there, but worth it) and Sunny lived for 18 and a half years She did always have issues with peeing in the wrong place, but if she had an untreated bladder issue, I"m sure that caused behavioral issues. I didn't care--I loved her  

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

@2Cats4everLoved

Hi Hope,
Just seeing this thread now, and wondering how your sweet Chestnut is doing. Also, how are you doing? Yes, you do need to take care of yourself as well, so you can take care of Chestnut. I know how we worry when our kitties are ill and fail to take proper care of ourselves. I have done that as well.
However, we need to take care of ourselves for our kitties. Remember, Chestnut needs you to be well for her.
Give your sweet kitty a hug from me and my kitties, and yourself as well.
Take Care of YOU and Chestnut!
I will be thinking of you both!
Your TCS friend, Gloria

Hi Gloria,  My girl is doing so much better this week, it was only the night after I gave her the Sheba.  I have only given her one can of the FF Turkey & Liver mixed with her Royal Canin SO and she has been pooping, although it's very hard again.  Also a little added pumpkin and the vinegar.

I'm actually headed Upstate today for a party then staying over till Monday for the doctors, who I see up there also.  

Chestnut played on her own again today and also has been so alert and talking again, LOL.  I just hope she doesn't miss me as she did with my hubby when he went away during the summer, and she got a little upset with the changes.  Oh well...

Thank you again for your support.  Be well, Hope

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

 
Now, I can't say this is safe, and this did NOT come from a vet, but it worked for me/my first kitty Sunshine.

This was also wayyy back in the early 1990s, when vet medicine had not advanced like it has today. My dear Sunshine was a DSH dark tabby, and ever since we'd gotten her, she had bladder issues. She peed a lot on carpets in our big house, and continued this trend when we moved to a smaller home. My mom was unimpressed. We had a bad vet at the time, and no one would take us to the vet I preferred. My mom ended up buying a heavy plastic cover for her persian rug, for which Sunny peed on and you could see it was thick and bloody. I felt awful and we rushed her to the vet asap, to find that, (as usual), this crappy vet had zero advice. She was put on antibiotics and prednisone, but I didn't see much of a change.

A friend of mine said one of her kitties had a similar issue and that what cured it was adding salt to the kitties wet food. Not a ton, but just a little extra. She said that the salt not only made the kitty drink more water, but it helped with flushing out the crystals----I honestly can't remember the specifics since it was over 30 yrs ago, but ...it worked!! Sunny never had bladder issues after that--and I only had to salt her food 2x!!!

I was very happy that my mom finally let me take our kitties to our excellent vet (a bit of a drive from there, but worth it) and Sunny lived for 18 and a half years She did always have issues with peeing in the wrong place, but if she had an untreated bladder issue, I"m sure that caused behavioral issues. I didn't care--I loved her  

Thank you @darkhorse321  for your response.  I appreciate any input I can get and will research any given to make the best possible decision for my sweet baby Chessy.

When she was on Baytril and Clavamox last winter, it changed her and didn't work well.  Also, her eyes are going bad and the Baytril didn't help matters there either.

This week she seems very alert and back to her old, old self which is nice to see, playing and attentive.  Even chatting as she used to.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, I very much appreciate it.

Be well, warm regards, Hope

 

[verna davies]

Glad to hear that Chestnut seems to be improving, long may it continue. You have had a tough year caring for Simon and as Loving Mickey said, Chestnut needs you fit and well to take care of her so look after your health and take some time out for yourself. Lots of hugs to you and Chess from me and the mob.

 

[red top rescue]

Along the same lines as salting the food, I frequently cook up a chicken in a crockpot and add some of the broth from that to their wet food.  They love it, and of course that gets more fluid into them.  When MJ was recovering, I did that for every meal.  I also added some chicken baby food (Beech Nut, not Gerber, because Gerber adds STARCH to their baby food, just another carb the cat doesn't need) and the turkey food has even more liquid in it than the chicken.  It helped her transition from an all dry diet that she had eaten her entire life to the all wet diet she needed to eat if she was going to have any more life!  Crockpots are so easy to use that this is an easy practice.

Interesting that the chicken Sheba should have upset her but not the Fancy Feast.  I do know that rarely some cats are allergic to chicken, but I've never had one that was.  I rotate foods, but they mostly get turkey and chicken, very little fish and no pork or beef (because I don't eat pork or beef, not out of any judgment of it as good or bad for the cat.)  Hope your doctor visits went well and that Chestnut is doing well on her current health plan.

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

 
Along the same lines as salting the food, I frequently cook up a chicken in a crockpot and add some of the broth from that to their wet food.  They love it, and of course that gets more fluid into them.  When MJ was recovering, I did that for every meal.  I also added some chicken baby food (Beech Nut, not Gerber, because Gerber adds STARCH to their baby food, just another carb the cat doesn't need) and the turkey food has even more liquid in it than the chicken.  It helped her transition from an all dry diet that she had eaten her entire life to the all wet diet she needed to eat if she was going to have any more life!  Crockpots are so easy to use that this is an easy practice.

Interesting that the chicken Sheba should have upset her but not the Fancy Feast.  I do know that rarely some cats are allergic to chicken, but I've never had one that was.  I rotate foods, but they mostly get turkey and chicken, very little fish and no pork or beef (because I don't eat pork or beef, not out of any judgment of it as good or bad for the cat.)  Hope your doctor visits went well and that Chestnut is doing well on her current health plan.

Thanks @Red Top Rescue  - my appointment went well, but they took soooo much blood my arm is so bruised.  I was away for 2 nights and 3 days, and I have to say, Chess was so happy to see me.  It's nice to be home.

I don't know what it is about the Sheba and I'll have to recheck the ingredients and compare again.  I do know it contains fish oil which could be the issue.  So far so good.  She'll go soon to the vet.

She is a little constipated and the pumpkin seems to be having the opposite effect on her.    Is it safe to give a cat a teaspoon of Green Beans from Gerber?    I know I gave it to her a few years ago when Simon was backed up, and she liked it and it worked well.

Chess has been getting good fluids, and next time I bake chicken I'll safe some juices for her, she would totally love that.

Thanks for all the tips.  Hope all is well in your area.

Best to you - Hope

 

[4cats1parrot]

I am totaly confused about UTI and crystals now. What I read on the net regarding PH and what the vet says are totaly different. The vet trys to turn me off of concerning myself with my cats ph values. Is the vet just trying to keep me from handling the situation on my own? Not one vet has ever said ACV is okay to give yet so many have had success with it and I am even noticing it as an ingredient in some cat foods.
Why would the treatment be different from a male or female? The same vet prescribed different treatments. My hyperthyroid senior female gets them out of the blue, she is heading towards renal failure thoug and her urine is very dilute so its hard to tell, I used to use Dr Elseys senior cat litter so I could see the color of her urine and any blood was noticeable, she started pulling all of her hair out. I stopped using the litter and now use worlds best cat litter, so now I cant see her urine change but she completely stopped pulling hair out. She would get little bits of blood that looked like clots in her urine it was never all red. She woul ru. from litter box to litter box, every time we take her in it is $400 or so. They always prescribe batytril or convenia injection, thats it. Her eyesight is not good so I hate constantly giving her antibiotics! And ALWAYS when ant cat ends up on baytril they get constipated so we now automatically give Mirilax 1/8 (she is 7lbs) in a bit of water in food. She only gets canned food, no dry at all. They did recommend cranberry, I buy people capsules and dump 1/8 tsp in her food once a day, she also gets probiotics and a shot of collidiol silver once a day. Mostly eats natures variety canned sometimes wellness. I also give 1/8 tsp milk thistle when not giving cranberry. so far her utis are less often! I would recommend anyone change cat litters for a while just in case, you never know. And senior cats arent able to clean themselves as well so trim the hair arount the butt. Those strips always read that she was in the normal range and the vet said they werent accurate, so I dont know what to believe there.

Now my Tom I rescued from outside, treatment was totally different, so confused :-/ he is an 18lb Tom I trapped and neutered that did not want to return outside, fed him out there for a good year he had tests for all the bad diseases (snap) test and given shots including rabies. 3 times he got a sudden uti. At first he was getting a bit of dry tiny amount with his wet every a.m. was getting wellness chicken & sardine. First time he was outside and snuck out of yard for about 4 hours, was never really concerned as this was his territory after all! Came back and yowelled and urinating a tiny bit at a time, it was weekend my vet closed. Gave him apple cider vinegar 1pt to 4 parts water srynge and wash doen with another just water, every hour. He started going better, but since this is dangerous in males I took him to emerg anyway. $ 400+ dollars later sent me home wit tests that were useless and a prescription for baytril and told to give him royal canin so for the rest of his life, something that would definately cause diabetes eventually! Cleared up Took to my vet more $$$$ they said get him on low. ingredient food stop the SO food. Then again after being outside for about 3 hours ( each time this happened is right after sneaking out of the yard) he came in frequent but bloody urine, not clumps pr clots but red. Tested his ph and it was low. took him to the emerg before I could try ACV. Same prescription, but told me he needed a catheder $2500.! I said no money so rather than trusting them and euthanising ad I had no $$$ to pay, I took him home. My holistic vet wanted to do more tests but my credit card was maxed, so I begged and pleaded that they prescribe something lime baytril again without seeing him, this time it was a different vet, one of the owners she called it cystitis due to the blood in the urine and I had already ran out and got RC so food to help dissolve crystals temporarily, she prescribed baytril again but also a liquid Saw Plametto and Boiron homeopathic tablets Staphysagria 30ch 3-5 pellets 3 times day for 7 days then once a day for Cystitis as well as same brand, Cantharis 30 ch for bloody urine same amount. so it worked but again, next time he escaped the yard came back the same! So I had some of nellies leftover baytril gave it to him and went to tne health food store and bought the boiron tablets and gave same amounts mafe sure it was 30ch you crush it and put in mouth hold mouth closed for A few seconds so it melts. then back to natures variety canned again. Why would it be different from one cat to another?
They wouldnt even discuss P H. I heard that it is more common in males especially his age, and some people give acv regularly to ward off uti's. or buy uremol an acidifyer so they can continue to give regular food vs urinary so.
It would be nice to get a straight story once and for all. This cat who came to trust me and cuddle with me became aggressive towards my seniors and went into some sort of weird mode and attacked my cat his eyes I will never forget, and I threw my cat in a bathroom while he leapt up at me and continued to jump up at me waist high and left scars, I held him to the floor and put him outside for a while, from tnen on he had to be in the basement or my cats in a room. No way for him to live, tried with no success to find him a home so he went to tne humane society a week ago, no sign of him on the adoption list I sure hope he wasnt euthanized, they said they are no kill facility....but. As an only cat he would have been good if I could have figued this issue out. I did see a neighbor calling him to him quietly when I was upstairs watching from a window, ran down and got him in and never let him out again. Do you think it,s possible a neghbor tried to poison him? my other cats I could harness but he woul flip out at any noise and hurt himself on a harness a formerly feral just cant be harnessed and keeping in the yard is haed to do. All you can do is keeo him in while he yowels to go out, either way outside was seeming to be dangerous and inside was too stressful so he had to go I miss the heck out of him and worry I did something wrong :-(. Can anyone clear up my confusion with uti,s? The vets these days seem to want you to know only so much. Shared my experience in case it helps anyone else.

 

[4cats1parrot]

Have to say what helped besides mirilax for constipation from the baytril was slippery elm bark, it also soothes the stomach, I would mix about 1/4 capsule in hot water mix, it gels up then you either put in food spoon or syrynge it in with a food syrynge, it got him going faster.

 

[2Cats4everLoved]

Hey there @4cats1parrot   - I'm just reading your post and will chime in when I've read the whole thing.

My girl Chestnut was also on Baytril last winter and Clavomox and I feel it made no difference than her hating us for pinning her down like a burrito to give her meds.  Her eyes weren't good either to begin with and I did notice a difference after the meds were finished.  However, with me taking a more natural approach, I notice she's seeing her toys better and her focus and response time is so much better.

She also got the bloody clots in her urine which are posted in the pictures above.

I also use Worlds Best Cat litter, the green when they have it and the red if that's all they have.  I had switched due to non delivery of the WBC littler the week when she got the infection and used a clumping, I think Tidy Cat which had a perfume odor and I think this change added to her stress.

Anywho, I'll get back to you after I read all of your concerns.  Now I'm not an expert, I'm learning also.