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Charlie: The Food Trial Diaries (ibd / Food Allergy (sensitivity) Or Stress)

Discussion in 'Cat Health' started by FeralHearts, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Weird call from the clinic tonight - not Charlies regular vet - left me a voice mail about Charlies medication being ready. ah...What medication? No one said anything about medication. Last time he was in with them was January for the Cystocentesis. So 1. They either royally screwed up and he's suppose to be on meds (though I for the life of me can't sort out what medications he would need 2 + months later) or option 2 - which is most likely - they've put it on the wrong file and now someone else who needs their meds doesn't have them. Holy mother of pearls what the helk is going on over there. o_O

    I love your use of "Disturbances" :-)

    I agree with you on the LID. It's why I keep going back to the idea of cooking for him. I'm not ready for that yet though.

    HAHAH I'm glad I'm not the only one that is doing that. I feel must less nuts now.

    Me too. Poor baby - fix one thing - cause another trying to fix it. You all will be the first I tell. You're my peeps!


    I am laughing right now only because I react the same way. You should have seen my face when his regular vet said "Well that food he's on will get rid of the crystals so as much as you think it's junk, he needs it right now."

    Reaction: *freaking out inside* then very calmly : "Crystals? What do you mean Crystals? I was told he didn't have crystals."

    When he was first brought in there were no crystals - they failed to tell me he developed them during us fixing him. *Sigh*

    We love them - so we panic.

    Heart murmurs are graded 1 to 6. A 2 is a soft murmur so that's a good sign. I'm glad they noticed it and took the time to check her out properly.

    I hate emerg visits so I give you biggest hugs right now.

    Hypertension - yup - that would make sense. Please let us know how she does on the follow up. I'm hoping it's a fluke from not feeling so well.

    *whispers* It's going pretty good - I don't want to say it to loud or think it to loud - cause they'll knowwwwww and then no one will co-operate.

    Yeah - just say "no" to that toothpaste stuff. No good at all. Bad stuff in it.

    I'm reading up on the Strix. Might be a good option temporarily to loosen stuff off. The power has to be in hotter water first, then cooled so might not be good for the fountains - but I am going to email them. Doesn't hurt to ask.

    @TheBoy'sMom - your cat sounds a lot like mine! I recently had to change Amber's diet to novel protein and increase her wet food intake, and she loves food when its new but doesn't like to eat it again after that. It took me probably 3-4 months of trying various foods with various toppers and being persistent to finally get her to eat the new stuff. Toppers are a good idea for enticing them and also, I learned, patience and persistence. I hope you manage to find one your kitty will eat![/QUOTE]

    :cheerleader::grouphug::crossfingers:

    o,O brilliant idea! I'm sure I can get some and give it a whirl! It would be nice to reduce the toppers and therefore be able to reduce some of the extra possible problems.
     
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  2. TheBoy'sMom

    TheBoy'sMom TCS Member Kitten

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    [/QUOTE]

    I predominantly feed my cat wet food after he had a urinary blockage about 8 years ago resulting in him needing the perineal urethrostomy surgery. :( I only give him kibble to entice him to eat something he won't or to include in his cat toys. Since my cat is on a lot of medication and supplements if he doesn't like something I don't try to give it to him again. Certain brands he just won't eat...anything with LID or high protein on the label and don't get me started on Nature's Variety. lol He only eats chicken and turkey these days from various brands.

    I think every cat is different. Growing up my mom's cat would eat the same three flavors from the same brand every day for her entire life. My cat, will like the same three flavors from a brand for maybe two months and then not want either of them again until a couple months have lapsed or he may not want them again ever. For instance, he used to love three of the chicken flavors from Soulistic and now he won't eat either of them and it's been like 6 months since I included them in his rotation. He hasn't forgotten that he hates them. :p
     
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  3. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    First @sidneykitty I apologize I mess up your quote to @TheBoy'sMom and it looks like the comment came from me and not you - so sorry about that.

    *whispers* Charlie appears stable on this food trial and I'm very happy about that. I have to prep for the future though so I will need your brains again.

    I'm okay continuing the dry food forever as that is not his main food and no worse than the last dry food he was on. However - I don't think - In fact I'm 99% sure I should not keep him on the duck forever as it's so high in fat. I already cause the poor guy crystals from the stress of getting him sorted out - I do not want to cause yet another problem by keeping him on high fat foods and risk pancreatitis.

    So now we are at a catch 22.

    I'm okay for keeping him on the duck another month, even 2, until we are sure there are no issues... but then what?

    I don't want to rehash his allergies, but ,I don't want him to get pancreatitis or other issues due to high fat foods. Hence catch 22.

    Any thoughts? Ideas? No rush we have time to cook up a plan :-)



    Oh gesssh - I'm so sorry you and kitty had to go through that. scary!!!

    Yup - cats are weird. Charlie was down to two flavors and was starting to balk on one and I was like nooooooooooooooooooooooo.

    Have you looked though any of the suggestions @Furballsmom has suggested for us to try to trick them? Oddly - the reddiwhip was a winner for Charlie. Bizarre but it got him started!!!
     
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  4. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

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    Oh and in case this wasn't mentioned a flat paper plate might help too :) (I'm in a crazy hurry, I apologise if that's been commented on already up thread).
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  5. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

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    Ummm, speaking of food, GO Charlie!!

    What about Young Again, or Dr elseys?
     
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  6. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Thank you @Furballsmom XO

    Young again LID is pork. I looked it up on the catfooddb.com and as high as duck sadly. (That was dry - they hand no info on wet) I should be specific. Looking for wet. :-)

    The one he could have from Dr. Elsey's - I'd have to move it in from across the boarder muahahaha - sadly is the beef - also high fat according to the catfooddb. I like the suggestions though. Maybe there is another beef one with less fats.

    Right now the assumption I am going on is no chicken or turkey. Avoid pork and duck as high fat proteins. That leaves me with rabbit and venison - IF I can convince him to eat it. He hated both previously - but then again - he hated the duck at one point too. Am I missing any?
     

  7. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    No worries at all! :) I still haven't figured out quite how to use the handy quote function...

    It took me ages to recall they even made hydrolyzed treats, but a couple years ago when I worked at a clinic there was one client who used to pre-order a bunch at once for her cat. I finally remembered that and asked the vet if they carried them. I was surprised it was never mentioned by the vet. Let me know how it goes!

    Thanks for the info on heart murmurs... I'll let you know how she goes.

    I'm really glad to hear he's stable atm on the food! That's great news, and that's a really important step. Good job both of you for reaching this point! :cheerleader:

    As far as what's next, well, as I understand after 12 weeks of the restricted diet, you can try to slowly add some other things back in to see if they might be a problem. So you could try something new then and see how it goes.

    As far as what... have you tried beef or lamb at all? For me, those are the only ones Amber would eat. She would not touch duck, venison or rabbit. I was a bit concerned about her eating duck, too, actually due to the fat. From what I've been hearing while I was doing all this searching/shopping/researching is that both venison and rabbit supplies can be somewhat unstable and sometimes there are shortages. I don't want to discourage you wanting to switch him from duck by any means, just want you to have a heads up it could happen in the future, unfortunately.

    Right now, I've got Amber eating the Hill's z/d dry and Fancy Feast beef believe it or not, though "fish" is an ingredient, but she is doing really well on it. Most importantly, she eats it, keeps it down and she's even gained some weight. She's eating more wet food now than she ever has before which I am hoping is helping.

    When I was trying lots of other things, she also liked Hound & Gatos both the lamb and beef, as well as NutriSource lamb and PureVita beef. She did become a bit lukewarm on them after a while, though. I'm not sure what the fat content is on these, though. The main things I was trying to avoid were chicken, tuna and any kinds of carbs/grains if that's helpful at all.
     
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  8. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    What about adding salmon oil to the canned food he’s lukewarm on? Turned out to be the secret sauce for Krista. When I pop open a new can, I add one pump of salmon oil to the can and then stir it up. I stir it up again before serving her next portions to make certain that any oil that wants to separate gets mixed back in. It turned a, “Rabbit is okay” into, “this is my favorite food ever!” for her.

    What’s your concern with fat and pancreatitis? I don’t think fatty foods cause pancreatitis in cats. Intestinal inflammation, the kind that dry food can cause, is a far better predictor of future risk for pancreatitis. It’s recommended that cats who have pancreatitis eat a lower fat diet to reduce the digestive load on the pancreas. But I don’t think there is a link (I could be wrong) between a high fat diet and pancreatitis in cats.

    If Charlie’s stable on the duck wet, you don’t have to to eliminate it completely. Keep it as a stable baseline and experiment with only one meal at a time. This makes it far easier to back out experiments that are not going well. Rather than look for the magic forever protein, build a rotation of stable non-reactive proteins.
     
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  9. TheBoy'sMom

    TheBoy'sMom TCS Member Kitten

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    When I was desperate to get my cat to eat something grated cheese was always a win or kibble/cat treats, which I would embed in the wet food, so he'd have to eat through it to find it.

    Ever consider training him with the clicker to eat this food? Give him a *little* and when he eats it click the clicker, give him a reward and so on. He'll catch on. I did this with my cat for a couple of things.
     
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  10. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Forgive my absence again. :-( I've missed you all a lot and have been trying to find some time for weeks to post. Between Charlie's issues ... his behavior ones as well - the other kitties having to lose weight (two have gotten way too fat) - and the house stuff, or the nightmare as I call it. It's been nuts. Finding time for sleep seems to be a luxury ATM. FYI I'm been trying to post this since Monday but I keep being sidetracked. Usually by something cute and fluffy though.

    Boy, I've missed you all. XOXOXOXO

    The good news:

    CHARLIE IS ALL CLEAR! Crystals are gone! Poof! No more! :yess::hyper:

    He went into his Doctor on Monday morning and she called to let me know he's all good. We are still checking to make sure the bacteria has not come back - but we are fairly confident it's good too. Update: His Doctor called today to say we are all in the clear! No Bacteria either. Now we simply have to stay that way. *does the crazy happy dance*

    He's officially been 3 months on the food trial - limited as best as I could. No Chicken or Turkey at all but he wouldn't eat anything without a salmon topper or the probiotic. So I conceded and it is what it is.

    After three years of trying to get him to eat anything different - I consider the last 3+ months a massive win.

    He's not lost any hair on his back legs the last three months. No welts. No chewing. Full hair! His Doctor says his skin looks much better too, less dry etc. He puked a couple of times but I think at least the one time it was a scarf-and-barf situation. He's not tossed his cookies in a while. *touch wood*

    Wow. Finally. Progress with him.

    Side note: The vet said she wished all of her clients were as informed as I am. I have you all to thank for that. XOXOXOXO You've trained me well.

    He's done so well with the Bone Broth that I've added it as part of all the kitties regiments.

    So they are all on:
    -Salmon oil
    -Bone Broth
    -UroMAXX(though I think I'm going to look at getting some D'Mannose to add and using the UroMAXX a few days a week instead of every day as with everything else it's getting too expensive to keep all four on it.) It's about $35.00 plus tx so about $40.00 a bottle and will last about one month for all four.

    Charlie takes a pro-biotic (FortiFlora). I'd really like to afford to be able to put them all on it but again it's quite pricey when you have four. So I need to find a good, reasonable alternative there too.


    Tokk me a while to get it right too. Experiment with it - if it messes up - it's all good.

    I totally forgot to ask the vet about that (I forgot to bring my list with me on Monday) - but it's now on my list as it's a good idea.


    I'll be looking at your thread to see if there are any updates or you can post here too! :-)

    And no problem on the heart murmurs I hope it helped and more importantly, that she's fine! :-)


    Thank you! me too. 3 years this has taken of try and fail, try and fail. He did not make this easy on anyone.

    *nods* that' what I was told too. One of his vets said that some people just keep their kitties on the special diet, I don't like that idea for a few reasons. As much as I don't want to trigger an allergy I also don't want him eating only one protein forever.

    1 - duck is high fat. I'd like to have something a bit better (healthier) I can give him too.
    2. I read that if the kitty has allergies and problems they are more likely to develop new ones. So if I keep him on just duck, there s a good chance he can develop an allergy/sensitivity to that protein too - then we'd really be in trouble.

    Like you and I talked about before - we have our chart like things with all the ingredients in the original food. Anything in a new food that was in the old, I mark in red on the new food - this way if something triggers I can find what might be the cause easier.

    Chicken and Turkey I think will be out of his life forever though. This makes me sad. I am wondering if I cook it at home would it maybe be okay. Someone mentioned once that it's totally different from the processed stuff. I'll do more homework there.

    I will admit that I'm a bit paranoid about adding things back.

    Haven't tied those yet. I did go and get some Beef ones that I will try with him as for once there was no chicken or Turkey in this brand. YAY!

    Lamb I can try to find as, like Amber, Venison and rabbit were both a no go. Though -I am going to try them again now that I understand Charlie does not like his food mixed. If I have to give him something new the best way for him is to slap it down without mixing his current food in.

    You are very correct about the shortages The first time we were going to try venison it was out of stock for 4 months. I'll for sure keep the duck in rotation but I want him to have options. :-)

    The Duck is my worry too. So high in fat that being said - I've gone over to the catfooddb.com site to look up food and some of the beef etc is just as bad. In some cases worse. That was a shocker. Duck is a high-fat meat though.



    YAY! She's eating it and doing well on it! That's is so awesome!

    More wet is very key I strongly believe that. Cats often only drink when they are already a bit dehydrated so the wet food tricks them and gives it to them whether they want it or not. MUHAHAHAH We parents have to have some wins!

    Check out catfooddb.com - it's very awesome for looking at quality, calories, % of what is coming from fat and protein etc. Very very good site. Very helpful in comparing and choosing.

    I have done that with the salmon oil. At first, the girls hated it - Charlie was okay with it and now no one seems to mind. I thought Charlie for sure would be all in as he lovessssss Salmon but surprisingly he was suspicious. He's a weirdo that one.

    I can honestly say I have no idea where my concern for it came. I thought high fats would be hard on the organs, especially heart and pancreas.

    That was what I thought too so thank you. :-)

    I really want to get him a rotation of proteins and tbh I have no idea how to rotate- is it daily, is it weekly?

    BTW your Broth suggestion has been a lifesaver. I've even seen an improvement in the girls since I've been giving it to them. This is staying forever.

    I can keep them on it forever, right?

    That will work with Charlie maybe twice - he catches on and stops. For three years it's been that way. A trick will work once or twice and then - starvation diet begins. I would have to stop as he'd lose weight, get sick and be miserable. Then start up again in a month or two. This is the first time ever he's co-operated.

    I'm absolutely willing to try this. He's stubborn - but so am I. :-)
     
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  11. verna davies

    verna davies TCS Member Staff Member Forum Helper

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    Yay :hyper:. Great news, well done you
     
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  12. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Thank you :-) It was a great team effort. :heartshape::heartshape::heartshape::heartshape: :grouphug2:

    I'm so, so happy he's okay. I danced around like a crazy person with total abandon with the news. Charlie looks so much more relaxed. More himself.
     
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  13. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Yes, bone broth is gelatin and minerals and can be a forever supplement.

    I wish my Krista liked the stuff. I may try again sneaking a small amount into the can and then it gets portioned out as the can gets portioned out.

    For probiotic, I like the Pet Flora from Vitality Science. Whether Krista likes it, I'm still not sure. At other times over the last year, she has either outright rejected food with "the dirt" (it looks like dirt because it basically is dirt, e.g. soil-based probiotics) or she has not minded one bit. She is currently not minding one bit which makes both of us much happier. I give her about 1/4 capsule twice a day. She gives me well-formed, low odor, perfect poops once or twice a day in return. One or two doses of the Pet Flora is all that's needed to firm up softer poops. Pretty amazing stuff when Krista chooses to eat it.

    https://vitalityscience.com/product/cat-probiotics/

    For food rotation, I honestly don't know. Right now, Krista gets a mix of rabbit with added salmon oil and turkey with no oil added. The next time she barfs and holds a grudge, that mix will be adjusted. I am holding back duck as a reserve if she decides she wants nothing to do with turkey AND rabbit. I think cats with choices get choosy. That said, I think it's not a bad idea to change one meal to a guest star protein. This allows Charlie to have some variety while also setting the expectation that you're not going to give him something different at every meal. You can vary the guest star meal if you think he would like variety or if you're still searching for foods for your rotation. Meanwhile, you keep him stable by not changing his other meals. Anyway, Krista likes to shake things up every few months. We hit the reset button and we learn a new way to keep her fed and happy.
     
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  14. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

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    We missed you too!!

    :celebrate:. :dance::beerchug:

    With your incredible fella, I'd say you'll have to experiment a bit to find the time ranges that work, which sounds like a hassle but you're in sunshine land now because you've gotten so good at this :banana1:
     
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  15. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Good, good, good! It's really been great.

    That's what I do. I measure out a teaspoon-ish - sometimes more - depending on the wet food type. (EG: I find turkey Pate for the girls a lot drier texture than other items.) I mixed it in the wet food and slightly warm it all They seem to appreciate that. Even Charlie's Duck is a bit dry in texture and this makes it moist.

    So yes, absolutely try again to sneak it into the wet, She may not even notice :-)


    Thank you! :-)

    Dirt lol interesting. Well if it does the same thing and I can afford it (it looks less expensive) then I'm willing to order some for sure. I'll read both labels and see what each provides. If you like it for Krista though - I'm willing to bet it's good.



    These are really good ideas. I like the guest star meals!


    XOXOX thank you.

    LOl @ incredible. You are kind. I have a list of other words I use for him. Often it's my little PITA. I like incredible though. He has really been a good sport about everything when I think about this last year and what he's had to put up with. Including the "invaders" to his space.

    Slowly experiment and document. *nods* Slowwwww experiments. Yes. :-) I can do that.

    LOL @ good at this. I've become somewhat competent - thanks to you all. XOXOXOX
     
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  16. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

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    :vibes::sunshine: :rock: :sunshine:
     
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  17. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    So do you! XOXOXOX

    A posted the pic in another thread but wanted to post it here too.

    This is Charlie tonight in his favorite spot. He looks great and I think he is feeling great too!
    IMG_1192-CZ1.jpg
     
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  18. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

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    WOW, what a truly handsome fellow!!
     
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  19. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Charlie says thank you :-)

    He's playing a lot more like normal now- which is super high insane energy. Looks like a wild thing. It's hilarious. Love it!

    When I pet him it doesn't seem to bother his skin like it was either. The brush is still a "I don't think so missy!" but that's okay.

    His two favorites spots are right in front of the big window and beside my head when I sleep. One day maybe he'l let me get a picture of him in another spot lol.
     
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  20. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

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    :lol:
     
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