Welcome to The Cat Site
your cat community
Interact with our community

Charlie: The Food Trial Diaries (ibd / Food Allergy (sensitivity) Or Stress)

Discussion in 'Cat Health' started by FeralHearts, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty TCS Member Alpha Cat

    364
    295
    Dec 25, 2015
    Oregon
    Go Charlie!!! He's doing great, I'm so happy!! Can you come to my house and get Amber to do the same?!

    I wonder if the antibiotics have helped him feel a lot better, thus making him want to eat more.
     
    FeralHearts and Furballsmom purraised this.

  2. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    620
    1,050
    Jul 4, 2018
    Canada
    Edit to add: This was day 11 - dry fool was fully transition with 1/2 as much FortiFlora

    Wet Food - Simply Nourish Duck and Pea LID - no grain - Eat with very minimal enticing.

    Then this happened:



    Not.going.to.lose.my.mind.on.anyone :censored:

    Everything Charlie and I just did was pretty much for nothing. :bat:

    So I go in tonight to pick up more dry food - that I was told was in. (As they gave me a sample to see if Charlie would eat or reject. I order after I saw he was not rejecting it. ) A few days later they called and said it was in. Great! I then requested a matching wet food as I prefer more wet than dry - no problem they were going to order that too.

    So yeah I go in tonight to pick up the dry and was hoping maybe the wet would be there too - if not - no biggie. We have it covered for now with the duck.

    No dry. Huh? What? and the wet food goes from bad to worse. If I thought the Royal Canin was crap - omg they've given him Hills Z/D. This is not what was talked about.

    So the dry food won't be in for at least a week. There is not enough here until then - so now that transition is a wash. :bawling2:

    I am 99.9 % sure he's not going to eat this Hills.

    So now what do I do? No idea.



    He was doing do well. So proud!

    He was - wasn't he! Poor kitty was being so brave. Wouldn't you know it - people screw it up this time lol

    I will have Charlie have a talk with Amber about the benefits of food. :-)

    I do believe having the infection and the inflammation gone have made the majority of the difference.
     
    Jcatbird and Furballsmom purraised this.

  3. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    18,214
    22,580
    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    Ummm holy cats.
    I'm kind of at a loss here, but I guess what I'm thinking is that since he allowed you to transition him for the other, can you work things such that he'll still eat something until you can get what you want?
    Oh my, I can't imagine how you must be feeling, but I think all is not lost yet...
     
    Jcatbird and FeralHearts purraised this.

  4. Wile

    Wile Opener of cans Alpha Cat

    556
    643
    Aug 22, 2018
    Canada
    Oh no! I wouldn't blame Charlie if he didn't like the Hills z/d wet. I tried it years ago with my two and even my cat who isn't a picky eater turned his nose up at it and the vet mentioned that most cats don't like it. The consistency is really bad. Who wants to eat meat jello?

    I hope they get the other wet food in for you soon. In the meantime are you feeding the dry RC multifunction? Maybe try phoning other vet offices in your area to see if they have some in? It's not a rare diet, so surely someone must have it in stock.
     
    Furballsmom and FeralHearts purraised this.

  5. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    620
    1,050
    Jul 4, 2018
    Canada
    That was a flat on no from him. I just gave it to him. I'll give him a while with it but pretty much what @Wile said was what transpired.


    Exactly meat jello. I added some warm water to try to fix that and doctored with his favorite treat - he won't even go near it. No attempt at all. I was sure it was going to be a lost cause but in case Charlie surprised me again with being easy - it was worth a go.

    Yes - Royal Canin Multi-care Hydrolyzed with urinary support.

    Good idea! I will call his regular Vet in the AM and see if they have it. Even If I could do that with say the LID duck I think we'd be okay.
     
    Jcatbird and Furballsmom purraised this.

  6. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    18,214
    22,580
    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    :vibes::goodluck: .:crossfingers: , a rabbits foot and every other good luck charm there is!!!
     

  7. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty TCS Member Alpha Cat

    364
    295
    Dec 25, 2015
    Oregon
    Ohh no!! That is just not what you need right now. :( How frustrating.

    Definitely call every vet in town to see if they can get it faster or have it in stock! Or even just a sample to hold you two over.

    I'm surprised it will take a week to order - my old vet in Canada used to order stuff and it usually arrived the next day. If I could get some to you any faster, I would, but I think it would take just as long.

    Amber wouldn't eat the z/d wet, either. Of course, she won't eat a lot of wet foods, but still. I was told that was my only Rx wet food choice.
     
    Furballsmom and FeralHearts purraised this.

  8. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    620
    1,050
    Jul 4, 2018
    Canada
    I'm a bit more rational now - panic mode over. So I'm thinking - and I have questions. I think reasonable / rational ones.

    So - if the whole point of this is to keep him on one protein, and preferably one carb that he's not be exposed to for 8 -13 weeks and then add back one thing at a time to see if it's a food allergy. That being the case I can see why they didn't order the canned version - chicken- chicken everywhere chicken.

    Okay so this simply Nourish wetfood should be fine. Carb is a pea - Protein is duck. No other protein or carb is present and neither of those things he was exposed to previously. So I think I can say forget it on the vet wetfood. Yes? No? If yes - that solves a big issue since that's his main food.

    His wellness is turkey, chicken, salmon, white fish and the only carb is carrots. None of those are present in the Simply Nourish LID Duck and Pea.

    Question: this RC dry food has chicken fat in it. Is that okay if they suspect a chicken allergy? I remember a debate about broth / fats / organs from an exposed protein not being a problem - am I recalling it wrong?



    Yes, this sucks. I tried like five different enticements - no way - no how - he is on strike. This is how it happened the past three years with changing his food. If I tried more than a few times - it was a full on food strike - and ohhhhh no that's not happening again if I can help it. lol


    *nods* Imma on a mission!

    XOXOXOXOXOX thank you that is sweet of you to even think of that.

    Why did they say it was her only choice? Have you found an alternative for her at all?
     
    Jcatbird and Furballsmom purraised this.

  9. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    18,214
    22,580
    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    There's this about chicken fat, I don't know if it helps;
    Cat Throwing Up, But Won't Eat Food From Vet.

    I don't know if I can answer your thought about the simply nourish with complete confidence, but I think you're on the right track there.
     
    FeralHearts purraised this.

  10. Wile

    Wile Opener of cans Alpha Cat

    556
    643
    Aug 22, 2018
    Canada
    You're right on this. As my vet tells it food allergies are to proteins, so fat is not supposed to be an issue. The RX diets are highly processed, and their factories very carefully monitored. There shouldn't be any chance of cross-contamination.
    If it helps, over X-mas I had a similar panic attack. At the time I was informed by my similarly disorganized vet a week after placing an order for the food that Wile E is on that his hypoallergenic diet was on backorder EVERYWHERE. At the time my local vet was concerned it might be due to a rabbit shortage and had no idea when the dry food might come in. Of course I freaked and contacted 7 different local vets (I also contacted the distributor and asked if there was any city in Ontario they knew of that had the diet in stock. At the time I was so desperate not to lose the 6 weeks of progress we made that I would have driven across the province if I knew there was a bag of food waiting for me :bawling2:). I finally got it two days later from a very busy 24 hour emergency clinic in my area. The moral of my story is that bigger hospitals are more likely to have things in stock, and if they don't they are more likely to get deliveries from multiple food distributors multiple days a week (even better if they have a dermatologist on staff). Independent hospitals usually only get one delivery a week, and what food they stock is dictated by what the few vets employed prefer to prescribe. The clinic administrators responsible for referrals also have a very good idea of what the local competition carries, so if your primary vet doesn't have the food in stock do ask them who they think you should phone next.

    The RC diet you are feeding isn't unusual at all. Even my own vet carries it, and they don't usually carry anything specialized for cats - I have to research myself and ask them to order it. I'm sure you won't have any trouble finding it. And if you do, so what. Feed him something like the simply nourished wet food you have or poached duck breast (or heck, even treats he likes) for a few days until the new order comes in. That way you won't lose progress on the food trial transition and he will be happy :)

    :clover::goodluck::clover:
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    FeralHearts and Furballsmom purraised this.

  11. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

    2,983
    3,867
    Sep 7, 2018
    Yes. You're correct. You can keep the Simply Nourish if he's doing well on it. Ideally, he doesn't need any carbs but if he's stable on it, keep feeding it. Peas can be a prebiotic: they feed good bacteria in the gut so all is not lost because you're feeding peas. But if he starts throwing up again or exhibiting allergic symptoms, the peas will probably have to go.

    Keep up the bone broth. The elimination diet is passive healing. Eliminate all potential triggers and hope that's enough to let the gut heal on its own. Bone broth is active healing.

    If he can eat enough with Simply Nourish wet and bone broth, you don't even need dry. Or maybe you can feed him only the wet for a few days until you shore up the supply issue with the dry.
     
    FeralHearts and Furballsmom purraised this.

  12. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty TCS Member Alpha Cat

    364
    295
    Dec 25, 2015
    Oregon
    In my opnion, and in my understanding, he should be fine having the duck and pea since you say he's never had it before. This is what I understand my vet told me as well. When they recommended hydrolyzed protein to me, I asked for a wet food since she's prone to constipation. They told me z/d or a novel protein. So I take that to mean duck and pea are novel to Charlie, so they are ok, too. AND to me, the most important thing is that he will eat it.

    So I would say if you feed a duck and pea dry along with duck and pea wet, you should be just fine. If he likes the wet duck over the Vet Rx wet food, I'd stick with the duck.

    I'm interested in seeing answers to the chicken fat question. This is something I've been wondering, too.

    What I've been trying for Amber since z/d isn't appetizing to her are a similar thing - novel proteins. We're guessing its a chicken issue for her, too. So we've tried duck, rabbit, beef and lamb. Basically my vet had told me hydrolyzed proteins OR novel proteins.

    @Wile - side note, I heard about a rabbit shortage recently, too. When I was starting my quest for novel proteins, my local pet store said that rabbit prices are skyrocketing and there are shortages due to an illness in New Zealand rabbits. :(

    Its ok, you're allowed to panic. :) We all do it! I definitely do. You're doing a great job caring for Charlie and being so patient with him and asking all these questions. :cheerleader:
     
    FeralHearts, Wile and Furballsmom purraised this.

  13. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

    2,983
    3,867
    Sep 7, 2018
    I'm no allergist or vet. But it's my understanding that the immune system keys in on proteins, not fats or carbohydrates. Probably because fats and carbohydrates are frequently circulating (expected) in the bloodstream but whole proteins (unexpected) usually indicate foreign invaders (bacteria, virus, etc.) So the chicken fat alone probably would not cause a reaction. However, if they aren't careful in how they separate fat from meat, there may be traces of chicken protein in the chicken fat. Enough to cause a reaction? Who knows? Better to avoid it if you can. Now as allergies go, egg and chicken are different proteins so if you can't avoid egg, you're probably going to be okay just the same.
     
    FeralHearts and Furballsmom purraised this.

  14. Selarah

    Selarah TCS Member Young Cat

    88
    93
    Aug 22, 2018
    How are you and Charlie doing?
     
    FeralHearts, sidneykitty and Furballsmom purraised this.

  15. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    620
    1,050
    Jul 4, 2018
    Canada
    Sorry I've note been around - life got a bit insane. I manged to get a very bad flu that knocked me on my butt for a few weeks. My energy was enough for work, and general life. I had zero brain and body power for anything at all. Making sure kitties and I were fed was about all I had in me. There was a lot of sleeping.

    The electricians came this week and did the work on the house - so now we are all safe - I hope - on that end. They'll be back when I get the kitchen done. All the cats were really stressed about it. Not fun.

    Charlie update:

    What a cluster mess. He went to his regular doctor today for shots and annual check up. I managed to get her the records from the clinic and was shocked to learn that they missed / failed to tell me something kind of important.

    Originally Charlie just had the blood and ecoli - no stones, no crystals. His last tests - while the ecloi and bacteria is all clear - he has A LOT of crystals now. I have no doubt it was from the stress of all these tests and getting him fixed up from the bacteria and blood. So in curing one thing - I've created another. The clinic failed to tell me about the crystals. His regular vet saw it on the last set of tests. As you can imagine that's very upsetting. I think this might be the final straw for me at that clinic. This is what - the fourth screw up due to lack of communication and everyone being on the same page? Now I do take partial blame here as I only just got a copy of his last report and should have read it closer but still...

    :bat:

    I guess the only plus here is that the crystals were probably caused the vet visit stress and not the additions to the household since the crystals formed after the vet visits and weren't present before?

    So now Charlie and I are dealing with - well - a lot.
    Food allergies
    Asthma
    Heart Condition
    Tummy issues
    and if that weren't enough - we add crystals to that. :frustrated:
    Oh yeah and his room mate issues (the other kitties and getting everyone sorted healthy and happy.)

    The words that come screaming in my head: Are you freakin' kidding me. :-(

    Now I'm losing my mind. How do I keep him healthy and make sure he's getting a good healthy diet at the same time. My heads just spinning.

    Oh he gained a pound too but this body is still ideal. 14 pounds but he's a BIG cat with a long body and legs. He's not overweight but it does mean I need to watch it though imho. Last thing I need is to have a weight issue to top the list lol.

    I think we're at Day 43 now - from my count.

    He's fully transitioned to the dry and wet food. I still have to put a few sprinkles of the purebites on and the probotic but it's still better than any food trial ever has been.

    His normal vet was concerned over the lack of info on simply nourish Ash (no mention on the can) and Taurine levels. I found the info. Zero Ash (which I think is good?) but low Taurine 0.05% in a 3 oz can. I put in a call to her to see if she has any issues with that. I did pick up some Hills D/D wet duck from them - just in case. Low ash levels but higher Taurine. I can try that if I need too.

    I called Royal Canin regarding the dry food ash and Taurine levels since it wasn't :

    Taurine: 0.29%
    Ash: 9.21% but that's of the minerals combined. I can call back to get more breakdowns if I need to.
    Magnesium : 0.5% is that part of the Ash % above.

    My thoughts are that even if the wet is low in Taurine, the dry food should compensate for that at least.

    Nutrition and health for cats = rocket science. Seriously rocket science. :runaround:



    This did help a lot thank you. XOXOXOX

    I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has a panic attack over things like the food not being there. I'd have done the same thing - driven across the province looking.

    Good that I'm on the right track for at least some of this! My mind is overwhelmed.

    As luck had it - his regular vet normally doesn't carry it. They happened to have it. Great timing!

    How is Wile E doing?

    *Phew* I am learning and its's sticking! I had no idea peas were a prebiotic! This is great news. So between all of it - we should have him covered.

    So far he's only tossed his cookies once since we started and I think that was a scarf-n-barf moment.

    I'm going to go to read your thread this week and catch up on all I've missed. I hope Krista is doing well.

    The chicken fat is apparently perfectly fine. Though TBH I'm still going to avoid all things where I can.

    You and I are in the same boat - I was told exactly that too. Novel protein or hydrolyzed. His regular vet understood my concern about the terrible food choices and told me about the two schools of thought on it. Good food - or fix the problem. It sucks - but I'm sure over time we can find a way to balance it once the major work is done. My vote - long, healthy, happy life. However we accomplish this I can live with it.

    I love Charlie. Even though my arms and legs will never again be scar free lol.

    It's so nice to be around fellow panic people that don't look at you like you are complete off your rocker.

    How is Amber doing too? I have to go find your thread and get caught up with her too!

    That sounds about right to me too. I talked to a friend of mine who is a human DR. of Nutrition / Dietitian - pretty much said the same. So you are wise!

    Hi Selarah! So very sorry for my long absence. Charlie and I are doing okay. One day at a time. I'm thoroughly exhausted atm - I'm sure he's feeling pretty much the same after months of being dragged around and poked and prodded.

    How's Sebastian?

    PS - I've missed you all a lot!!!

    XOXOXOXOX
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    Furballsmom purraised this.

  16. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    18,214
    22,580
    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    I'm SO glad you're on the mend!!

    A pound? My goodness!

    It's possible to add taurine if needed.

    I am sending every good healing thought about those crystals (and everything else!)!!
     
    FeralHearts purraised this.

  17. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    18,214
    22,580
    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    This post has something about crystals that might be helpful, I don't know...

    Urinary Care Advice
     
    FeralHearts purraised this.

  18. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    620
    1,050
    Jul 4, 2018
    Canada
    Thanks! One of my co-workers has been off since the end of January that started with this - he's got a heart issue so it's done badness. Four of us got nailed with this flu. Nasty.

    I know! I nearly fell over as I would swear to you he had lost some weight - not gained it! He looks good though. Lots of energy. Lots of zoomies. It's nice to see that and see him with his feet tucked under all cozy. Poor guy has been though a lot.

    *nods on the Taurine* Thank you - I was reading about that too. Apparently no way to tell if there is a deficiency so I'm trying to do the math. I wish there was a set standard that was uniform on the food. They all seem to calculate differently for things.

    Thank you XOXOXOXOXOXO We appreciate it !


    Going to read up. Thank you :-) XOXOX

    I'm looking at the ingredients in the uromaxx as well. I'm considering adding it back into his meals.
     
    Furballsmom purraised this.

  19. Furballsmom

    Furballsmom Cat Fan especially Black Cats Staff Member Forum Helper

    18,214
    22,580
    Jan 9, 2018
    Colorado USA
    I think I read that extra taurine that a cats body doesn't use is simply excreted, but I'm definitely not sure about this. Hopefully you can find something definite.
     
    FeralHearts purraised this.

  20. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

    620
    1,050
    Jul 4, 2018
    Canada
    I think I read the same thing. I found another article today about it that I'll read later the indicates it could be a little more work on the kidneys so we'll see.

    But see what I mean - rocket science! :flail:
     
    Furballsmom purraised this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies.