Cats, Gabapentin, And Suspected Neurological Disorders

[Jackieandpierce]

Hi all,

In advance, this may be a longer post. I truly thank anyone and everyone who can read through and provide their thoughts.

I posted a thread around a month ago to this forum after Jackie had what appeared to be a nightmare. In short, she awoke suddenly from sleep, fell off her cat tree where she was sleeping, and then seemed scared of the room she'd been in. Puffy tail, dialated pupils, hissing upon rentry to the room. Took her hours to recover, and even then seemed jittery. Given it was just 1 episode, I agreed that I'd monitor and get her checked if more events like this occured. A note that she had her yearly checkup in April including a full blood panel that was normal. She is 5 years old and had a brother cat who is not displaying these symptoms.

We went about a week without an event. I worked from home most days to monitor her, Around 5 or 6 days later, mid-afternoon, she was awake but all of the sudden started following something that wasn't there, seemed fearful, and pupils once again a bit dialated. She was looking behind her as if something was chasing her. Tail went puffy. She calmed down after, but seemed upset. The next morning, she still seemed uncomfortable and a bit lethargic so I took her to the vet (but not my normal vet as they were dealing with a bunch of emergencies and couldn't fit her in). This vet did a lot of rule outs, including a comprehensive blood test that came back normal. She then went on to check Jackie's anal glands, and noticed an abnormality or anal gland impaction. She expressed the glands as well as she could, and injected an anti-inflammatory and an anti-biotic. She recommended that Jackie be sedated within 10 days for a full anal gland cleanse. She also recommended a stress control vet diet (my cats are exclusively fed grain-free high quality high protein wet food, so it is always a bit of a red flag for me when vet suggests vet diets full of grains).

Jackie came home, and was obviously upset about having the anal gland procedure, I hear it is very painful for cats. That said, the injections in particular the anti-inflammatory seemed to help. But within 7 days, she was showing signs of more episodes like I had described previously, seeming even more stressed then ever, a lot of vocalization and hyperactivity. I decided to engage my regular vet, a renound cat vet in the city, to get his opinion. He reviewed the files from the other vet, gave Jackie a physical review (i brought her in that day) and said that he vehemently disagreed with the other vet and commented that based on the notes he read, he doesn't believe that they have any idea what is going on. He did not think I needed to change their diet. He suspected seizure-like activities linked to some sort of neurological disorder or epilepsy. He did mention Feline Hyperesthesia, but could not be definitive. Of course, since so little is known about this stuff, it was an open-ended discussion that left me feeling above all, confused. My regular vet didn't even check Jackie's anal glands since she was displaying no signs of anal gland issues, was eating, pooping, etc. He said he could check, but it is painful and he doesn't see the anal glands as the problem. He prescribed Jackie 50mg of gabapentin to start plus feliway spray as I had noted a stark change in Jackie's behaviour when he sprayed feliway near her crate in the check up room - she became calm and fell asleep in short order after being upset and stressed for most of the day leading up to her vet visit.
Some added context, I live in a stacked townhouse and their environment is very stable. They have room to play, cat trees, scratching posts, places to hide, etc. I live alone with them. No recent major changes, though Pierce the male cat has increasingly been a bit of a brute with her, but she always defends herself. She has always been a bit stressy and high energy, and tends to get cat dandruff. Often, I feel like her back is very itchy, though she lets me touch her back no problem. I have not observed much skin rolling like others describe with FHS.

So now for my questions out to this forum...

1. How do I deal with two drastically different dianosis? I'd get a third opinion readily but these vet bills are a lot.

2. Based on what I have described above, does anyone have a similar experience? Thoughts on what is going on?

3. Gabapentin and spray are helping, but I hate the idea of her being drugged forever. Also, the meds are pricy - $170 for a 3 month supply. Anyone tried CBD oil?

4. Other thoughts on all of this?

 

[Jackieandpierce]

Also, uploading two recent pics of her.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! Oh, what a sweet baby!

If you haven't already asked, would the second vet tell you what to look for regarding the anal glands?

For her, I don't know but I'm wondering if there is something happening either outside or in another unit, that she can hear or smell, that you wouldn't necessarily be aware of and also isn't much of a bother to your other cat, although he could be redirecting aggression to her, which definitely isn't helping things. Did somebody move in, is there a new animal that someone brought in, a new human baby...

Would music help? MusicForCats . com or classical harp music, or the app Relax My Cat.

CBD oil could help, or this from @Mamanyt1953
you could try chamomile tea for her stress. Buy the commercially prepared bags from the coffee/tea aisle. That insures that you are getting ONLY German Chamomile. The English, which often grows in gardens, is toxic to cats. Be sure that you buy simple chamomile, not a blend. Brew a cup, chill it, and administer via syringe, between 1-3 teaspoons full (but up to 3 Tablespoons full for cats over 11 pounds) up to three times a day. It is gently calming without being sedating.

Feline Hyperesthesia

Re-directed Aggression In Cats

 

[Jackieandpierce]

Thanks so much.

With regards to the anal glands, my regular vet mentioned that if this was an issue I would likely observe scooting, she would be licking the area constantly, and there would be a smell. None of these symptoms exist now or before the first vet did the anal gland expulsion. I have never heard of anal gland issues before so am relying entirely on the expert opinions and trying not to read too much online as I am a known worrier.

With regards to changes in townhome unit, a kitten is new to a unit 3 doors down from me. It is often left out on that owner's balcony, but their balcony faces the opposite direction from my unit. But there are indeed lots of pets around, and there have been since I moved in 18 months ago. Jackie didn't get like this even when we first moved in. I leave the balcony door open for them often for air and to look out, so certainly possible she smells something I am unaware of. I also live in an area of active construction, and there is wildlife around ie coyotes that are being displaced by new builds.

I bought the apawthecary cat CBD oil and am going to see if ai observe a difference. Thank you again!!!

Jessica (and Jackie and Pierce)

Hi! Oh, what a sweet baby!

If you haven't already asked, would the second vet tell you what to look for regarding the anal glands?

For her, I don't know but I'm wondering if there is something happening either outside or in another unit, that she can hear or smell, that you wouldn't necessarily be aware of and also isn't much of a bother to your other cat, although he could be redirecting aggression to her, which definitely isn't helping things. Did somebody move in, is there a new animal that someone brought in, a new human baby...

Would music help? MusicForCats . com or classical harp music, or the app Relax My Cat.

CBD oil could help, or this from @Mamanyt1953
you could try chamomile tea for her stress. Buy the commercially prepared bags from the coffee/tea aisle. That insures that you are getting ONLY German Chamomile. The English, which often grows in gardens, is toxic to cats. Be sure that you buy simple chamomile, not a blend. Brew a cup, chill it, and administer via syringe, between 1-3 teaspoons full (but up to 3 Tablespoons full for cats over 11 pounds) up to three times a day. It is gently calming without being sedating.

Feline Hyperesthesia

Re-directed Aggression In Cats

 

[FeebysOwner]

With regards to the anal glands, my regular vet mentioned that if this was an issue I would likely observe scooting, she would be licking the area constantly, and there would be a smell. None of these symptoms exist now or before the first vet did the anal gland expulsion.

Hi. Feeby's anal glands weren't completely clogged, but were enough so that they required manual expression. She never scooted her butt on the floor, or was particularly obsessed with licking her anal area, and I never smelled an odor that is often mentioned as being present when anal glands are clogging up. So, just because these signs are missing isn't a fool-proof way to rule out anal gland issues. Feeby was also eating and pooping just fine. Her only sign was a little bit of brownish colored fluid I found on the floor when she left her litter box one day.

I suppose it depends on the vet who is doing the manual expressing, but whatever pain occurred, it entailed a total of less than a minute during the time it took to express them. While she certainly wasn't impressed by it, she was long over the matter before she even left the vet's office (probably due to all the other prodding/poking that goes on in a vet visit!). However, I would imagine the more the glands are clogged and the longer it takes to express them would increase the level of pain.

You said your vet didn't even check Jackie's anal glands? If there is gunk accumulating in the anal glands a vet should be able to tell that by simply looking at them - they don't necessarily need to try to express them to determine if there is some build up.

Did the first vet show you the amount of 'gunk' that they expressed from the glands and explain whether it was a lot or not? My vet did.

I make a point of all of this because if Jackie's anal glands were in fact clogging up and did need expressed and you were advised to have them fully cleaned, then your vet - at a minimum - needed to take a look at them just to see if they were re-collecting gunk. And, one and/or both of the vets should have told you what you could look for regarding if the glands were to start to clog up again.

I will also say that it is possible Jackie's behavior is the way she responds to whatever feeling a cat might get when their anal glands aren't being expressed naturally. Neither Jackie or Feeby can tell us, unfortunately!!

I think you need to make sure there is no anal gland issue at all, and then you can pursue resolution to her other behaviors with confidence that it has nothing to do with those glands.

Sorry for the long response!!

 

[Jackieandpierce]

Hi FeebysOwner I really appreciate you taking the time to write this out. Thank you so much. This whole issue has indeed been quite confusing for me since I have such varying diagnosis from two local vets, so I appreciate any and all perspectives and experiences.

I will add a bit more context re: my normal vet who last examined her and did not re-check her anal glands, as I see you are concerned with this (and so was I at first, and to a degree it still weighs on me).

-He did perform a physical exam on Jackie and checked the area outside her bum hole for swelling etc. and felt her abdomen for constipation. Clogged anal glands usually leads to constipation based on what he said to me and my subsequent research to reconcile what he said in my own mind. He didn't detect any constipation and she has not displayed signs of distress in pooping.
-The symptoms I mentioned above are the most common symptoms for anal gland clogging per what my regular vet said said and my subsequent research. Here is one relevant link that I referred to after the visit with him: Signs & Symptoms of Anal Gland Problems in Cats, so I am very interested in other information that you can share with me on other signs and symptoms.

On that note, can I ask, what prompted your vet to check Feebys anal glands or for you to bring her in to get them checked? What was the outcome after they were manually expelled? My issue right now is there is absolutely no signs that she needs to have this procedure, and the alternate vet is recommending complete sedation under anaesthesia to expel them, which of course comes with risks and is traumatic for her. Jackie had to have teeth removal this year already where she was sedated and I hate overdoing that. I think what my regular vet was getting at is that yes perhaps there is some gunk in there, but if it's not causing any issues, it would be overkill to do a full sedation and expulsion. He also said that he could try to manually expel more, but it would be painful and cats anal glands are notoriously hard to expel. Also, based on his experience, he seemed convinced the hallucinations and other behaviour I had originally brought her in for had a neurological origin vs. organ origin and that the first vet had simply focused her attention on the wrong thing.

Trust me, I'd much prefer this be an anal gland issue vs. a brain issue, so I am extremely open to other data points and articles to inform me on other perspectives...I am just sort of at a stale mate based on the information I have available to me right now. Also, should not that the gabapentin and the spray is helping her (she hasn't had further episodes), supporting my regular vet's diagnosis...but again, I know gabapentin might be provided pain relief which could help with anal gland compaction as well. Ugh...so multi-layered, and I wish are kitties could talk.

Thanks again, let me know if you have any other thoughts.

 

[Furballsmom]

Thinking out loud here in regards to my assumption that she heard/detected something that woke her up and scared the daylights out of her, if there's a displaced wild animal that's wandering around frightened and lost outside, or even something that's gotten into the walls that she can hear, she'll still be able to detect whatever that is unless it has moved on.

By the way, is your male cat more calm? She's not the only one who needs to become more relaxed. Have you had a chance to try some low volume music?

 

[Jackieandpierce]

Hey Furballsmom yes, good point about the wild animal. Honestly, anything is possible in that regard, I was just confused as to how that would translate to hallucinations, which is really how I would describe her previous episodes vs. being scared; however, that was just my perception of her behaviour and I could be wrong. I have had cats before and seen scared cats, but this seems to be a bit different. Are you aware of any articles on this that may enlighten me?

When I researched symptoms of FHS, I saw these symptoms relayed which are exactly how I would describe her behaviour:

• Apparent hallucinations – seemingly following the movement of things that are not there or running away from some unseen adversary.
• Vocalization, crying, loud meowing

But since she doesn't have the skin twitching/attacking her tail, I wasn't fully convinced with this either, though her back does appear to be itchy quite often. Such is life, impossible to know without a battery of tests and even then I may never know.

With regards to male cat (Pierce), yes he is more calm. He does not display obvious concern for his environment, aside from when she has an episode. Naturally, when Jackie is searching the house endlessly for an adversary and in a state of distress/tail puffed, his instincts I'd assume say to him "You need to be scared too!". He would take that out on her I'd say (attacking her), which would end in everyone being upset and stressed out. The feliway spray was bought to help them both with this, and I have bee spraying it on his bed regularly. I do regularly play music via Relax My Cat but have to be careful to turn pictures off as I think the images scare them. Such sensitive creatures they are. I will try the other channels you recommended in your initial post, as well as that tea.

One other key distinction between Jackie and Pierce.

-I found Jackie in a tree when she was 3.5 months old and adopted her then (after not being able to locate an owner or microchip). She was not spayed at the time.
-I adopted Pierce at 2 months old at our local vet, he was already neutered.

Pierce is much more "human" than Jackie. He has never had wild inclinations or experience in the outdoors and has always been fairly calm except if I don't feed him on time lol. Jackie, though she doesn't cry to be outside, I have always suspected may have been adopted by me just at the cusp of feral socialization and may have had some experiences as a kitten that I was not privied to. I know she had a home of some kind when I adopted her as she was clean and fed, but I suspect it was a local home around where I used to live that had a lot of cats (unsprayed/unneutered) that produced many kittens.

Thanks again!

-Jackie and Pierce's Mom

 

[FeebysOwner]

He did perform a physical exam on Jackie and checked the area outside her bum hole for swelling etc. and felt her abdomen for constipation. Clogged anal glands usually leads to constipation based on what he said to me and my subsequent research to reconcile what he said in my own mind.

Funny you should mention the constipation. My vet suggested that anal gland issues, in addition to some cats just being prone to them, are sometimes related to loose stool because they are not firm enough to enable natural expression of the glands. Lol! I suppose the opposite could be true, as sometimes constipation can cause little bits and pieces of hard stool to be defecated - so, maybe not large enough to express the glands on their way out??

On that note, can I ask, what prompted your vet to check Feebys anal glands or for you to bring her in to get them checked? What was the outcome after they were manually expelled?

Feeby is prone to UTIs, so when I saw that little bit of brownish liquid on the floor after she had used the litter box, I was worried it might have been blood. So, the vet checked everything 'down there'. That is when he said she had some 'gunk' collected in her anal glands, and he expressed them (which, btw, with my vet is complimentary as is nail trimming - so must be fairly common?).

In Feeby's case, since she did not have loose stools (or constipation), and she had never had anal gland issues before, he thought it was because she is older (15+ yo), has some arthritis, and is likely not cleaning herself as she once did. He said in addition to natural expression through defecation, anal glands are also expressed through the stimulation of grooming.

So, he suggested I start helping her clean 'back there' and I instituted what I call 'booty duty'. She hasn't had an issue since with the help of the booty duty.

Perhaps, Jackie's issues have nothing to do with her anal glands. But, I was concerned only because my vet said if they are allowed to become impacted (fully clogged), it is a lot more serious matter to resolve than to have them checked periodically.

I am going to read your most recent posts about the FHS, as oddly enough I think Feeby also may have a form of this. If I feel I can contribute to this aspect, I will post another (probably long, sorry) response!!

 

[Jackieandpierce]

FeebysOwner yes I'd read that about loose stool as well to add to the layers of this complicated onion. I monitor her stool, it's fairly firm, so that wasn't something I'd consider an issue for her either. Pierce on the other hand has always had looser stool, so I'd almost expect this more from him. I am certainly going to keep monitoring and may take her back in and ask them to check them carefully, if nothing more than piece of mind. My regular dr. at the vet I go to is on vacation, so a good time for me to get another vet's opinion without offending him...lol.

Thanks again for all of your insights!

-Jackie and Pierce's Mom

 

[Furballsmom]

I looked around but really didn't find anything. This has very little info, almost more of a passing mention.
Cat Acting Strangely? Here's What It Could Mean

Are you able to play with them, a lot?

Could there be a generator in the neighborhood that is running for the construction or whatever? She'd be able to hear that even if you don't.

The best thing I can think of is if you have a friend or relative that could take her for a few days or a week or so, and see, after she has settled in (send along a worn unwashed t-shirt of yours and a favorite blanket or similar that she likes), if her frights continue. If they do, I'm wrong

 

[FeebysOwner]

Re: FHS - I see signs of similar mannerisms/behavior in Feeby as you talk of Jackie's. Some started years ago, some have increased with age, and some have developed more recently.

Feeby's first sign of an issue was with her jerking in her sleep (about 5 yo), and at that time the vet felt it was neurological in nature. He told me then that it doesn't have to mean anything devastating and most times doesn't need action - just monitoring.

I have never asked, but over the years of reading/research, I am gathering that neurological issues are the likely culprit behind FHS. I plan to discuss this in more depth with my vet on Feeby's next visit.

Her back seems 'itchy' and she sometimes seems sensitive to being petted on her lower back. Tbh, I am not sure when these things started happening, so I can't compare them with Jackie's age. She also has always licked/cleaned a lot while being petted. But, she has never chased her tail either.

More recently, she seems to stare at things that are not there (but she doesn't run from them), and she is more vocal than she used to be (although she has always been a bit talkative when talked to). Her licking/cleaning has also picked up - with or without being petted.

Again I failed at not being terribly LONG posted But, everything has recently been amplified in terms of Feeby's behavior. And, it would seem it might be because she has a new health issue (that is being researched). It's almost as if some sort of health issue can exacerbate the behaviors?

There is also a propensity in some cats to become a bit aggressive or hostile to another cat because they can sense an illness (Pierce to Jackie)

Just pointing all this out because maybe there is an underlying health issue with Jackie that has yet to be identified. So sorry if I am scaring the crap out of you, I am sharing all of this with the best intentions.

I promise to shut up now!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kflowers]

Our experience with 6 cats was one of them watched the wall for three weeks. We were okay with that, the other cats ignored what he was doing. Then, suddenly, there was chaos in the kitchen. A mouse had run out of that particular wall. all the cats were in there, but only the one who had watched the wall actively chased the mouse.

Points
-1- Jackie could very well be hearing something that is moving through walls. You mentioned that she seemed to be tracking something that wasn't there.

-2- Since it is her hunt, Pierce isn't going to interfere.

-3- Since she hasn't stuck to staring at the walls, I think it's possible that whatever animal is in there is coming and going inside and outside. It's warm there's no reason for the animal to stay inside for warmth. It maybe collecting for the winter now.

-4- This is the frustrating part. There were three mice behind our
kitchen wall and no sign of a crack or opening in the wall. We think they were squeezing under the baseboard (big,old fashion, four inch thing. You could barely run a butter knife under there. I admit I didn't see any of them actually emerge from the wall, they weren't in the kitchen then they were. one a week for three weeks.