Cat Is Pretty Sick And I'm Feeling Lost And Alone

catowner22

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I've been searching nonstop for some insight, but everywhere I turn people give me the usual - go contact my vet again, which is so obvious and so not helpful for me.

So my cat Bubby who is only 7 got really thin in the past month, then I noticed his upper face swelling pretty bad and also smelling. I took him in to see the doc, but the whole thing felt rushed and I felt like they weren't being direct with me.

They looked at his mouth and said it was an ulcer, gave him convenia and something called depo-medrol injection right away. Then they told me he was very dehydrated. Suggested that his kidneys were bad. Then did a blood test and said that it looks like that is the case. The only comment he made was "once they go bad, it's hard to correct it". I'm not stupid, I know what kidney disease is. You can't correct it. They gave him fluids, then gave me fluids to give to him for three days. Why just three days? I don't know. Do you? They just said the fluids will help him feel a lot better. Told me to bring him back in a week. They also gave me some kidney diet food for him.

I'm afraid that they just weren't willing to tell me how bad the situation really is, and were just sending me home with my cat sick. I know that vets often do that. Then they'll act like they didn't realize your pet would die, but really they know.

I'm hoping that is not the case, I'm very afraid. He had gotten really thin, but was not acting too poorly, even before taking him in. After we came home, he again seemed normal. Even today, earlier in the day seemed pretty normal. He's eating normal, ate more than usual today. Drinks okay. But tonight he's gotten lethargic and my gut feeling is that this is not good at all. Do I take him back tomorrow? What could they even do?

I know his mouth hurts, I can tell by the way he flinches. The antibiotic does not seem to be taking any effect. Usually they work quicker than this, but it has not improved. In fact, I think it looks worse. He can't really close his mouth. I'm hoping he's not feeling too dry, I gave him 200 ml of his fluids today as directed, but still. I just feel awful. Like there's nothing I can really do. I feel like I was duped into thinking the vet was seriously trying to help my cat turn things around. But now I feel like they were only trying to give me false hope and send me home.

I'm pretty sure dialysis is not an option near me, and probably can't afford it. The most I was really hoping for was that maybe he'd be okay enough that he might live for a while if I give him fluids, if his disease is chronic, which I suspect it has been. Right now I'm so full of doubt I don't think he'll make it. He looks pretty pitiful, his meows sound tired. He's lying on me right now like he's just run a marathon and passed out on my lap.

Gave him fluids today. It was my first time doing that, kind of went in a little low on his back but I thought I got it in still. They said, this will help him feel so much better, but he doesn't quite act like it. He eats his canned food, drinks but then hovers over his water dish. I don't think I should give him milk, right? But that's the only the he really enjoys drinking. I don't get how he eats so much of that stuff but stays so thin. Must be the kidneys?

I know this comes off as rambling, and ranting. But I'm so stressed out over it, so worried, and don't know what to do. I love this cat, he's the sweetest cat I've ever had and I don't want to loose him. I might kill me. I almost lost my mind earlier this year, my mother is very sick with kidney disease too, and if my cat dies on top of it all, I don't think I can handle it all anymore.

Getting off topic, I know. I just wish someone could tell me something. Like why the ulcer isn't improving? Why he does not act like he feels better after fluids? Why I'm only given fluids for three days? Should I take him back tomorrow? Can anyone help me?
 

Margret

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For cats, dialysis is subcutaneous fluids. This webpage is focused on dialysis in humans, not cats, but it gives a good explanation of the two kinds of dialysis, peritoneal dialysis and hemodialysis: Hemodialysis vs Peritoneal Dialysis - Difference Between. Giving subcutaneous fluids is the feline equivalent of peritoneal dialysis in humans - the only real difference is the location.

It isn't all that hard to give subcutaneous fluids to your cat yourself at home. I haven't done it, but several people on the site do it regularly. Today was your first try; you'll get better at it with practice. I have to ask this: was part of the problem today that you were worried that you'd cause Bubby pain? If so, please be reassured; this isn't nearly as awful from the cat's perspective as it looks to humans.

You're correct that you shouldn't give Bubby milk; almost all cats are lactose intolerant. They like milk, but then they get a tummy ache and throw it up or get diarrhea from it.

When did you take Bubby to the vet? It may be too soon for the antibiotic to work on the mouth ulcer. Convenia is a long-term antibiotic that has a bad reputation; you'll need to watch for bad reactions to it. See: Convenia adverse reactions in cats/felines and dogs/canines and Convenia- long term antibiotic: Is it worth the risk?. I'm particularly concerned about the risk to an animal with compromised kidneys. And remember for the future - never let your vet give Bubby Convenia ever again! You're better off dealing with the problems of oral antibiotics.

It sounds to me like your vet has already given up on Bubby, and that isn't good. I don't mean that it's bad because it means there's nothing to be done, I mean it's bad because it means you're going to have trouble getting your vet to help you do what needs to be done, especially to help you get good at giving the subcutaneous fluids. You're probably going to need to buy your supplies online - not only will it help to take your vet out of the equation a bit, but it should be cheaper than buying from your vet. I don't know whether you'll need a prescription in order to buy them, however.

Four years ago, we had an expert, Dr. Kris, who came on the website for a week and answered our questions about kidney problems in cats. That forum is now closed for new posts, but it's still here permanently so that everyone can read it. You can find it here: Kidney Issues in Cats with Dr. Kris. Please be aware that posts in the expert forum are in reverse order; I'm not sure why.

@brittpatt, I know you're dealing with kidney problems in your cat, do you have any better insights to offer? Anyone else?

Margret
 
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di and bob

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Definitely find another vet.As long as he is eating and drinking there is hope. The ulcer is the start of everything and needs to be addressed, He may need some teeth work done. There are antibiotic injections that can be tried and other methods to be explored. Right now it is critical to get him to eat and drink. He is in much pain. Explore home methods to take care of mouth ulcers. There may be some help there. I'll pray for taht sweet baby, please keep in touch and tell us what is happening!
 

artiemom

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Oh Sweetie, you must be feeling so frantic..

Is there a different vet near you? For a second opinion? It sounds as this Vet does not really care.

To me, it sounds as if you kitty is dehydrated more from the mouth ulcer than from the kidney disease. She cannot eat, or drink, so she is dehydrated. Dehydration can cause abnormal blood test results.

You did the right thing by giving her fluids through the skin (sub-q). You do need to change the needle each time you stick do this... and try warming the fluid in a pan of water for a few minutes..it is easier on your kitty.

Yes, once kidney disease is incurable; however, it can be managed with certain medications, food, and the sub-q fluids---which you have already done.

It sounds as if this vet is not willing to even try. Personally, I would see a different one.

While none of us are Vets, and can not prescribe treatment, but...
I think the first priorities are getting the ulcer under control, sub-q fluids, and food---
Have you tried some kitten formula? Can you get your hands on some goat milk? Not real milk.

You can also try getting some unflavored pedialyte to add to food, and syringe it in her... Or add some KMR (kitten formula) to add to the food, to mix it into a gruel..
and she needs a good vet..

This can be expensive... they may even suggest a feeding tube while the ulcer is healing...

Are there any Vet Schools near you? Sometimes they have a clinic which can help.

For supplies, I used ThrivingPets.com.
You can get the IV lines and needles without a prescription, the bags are very expensive. You may have to buy those at the Vets, for a few times.. you need a script for them.

Bubby needs a lot of intensive care, right now... She needs a caring Vet.

I know it hurts to see Bubby so sick. Please remember you are doing your best. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and an awesome heart.. please do not feel guilty.
Honestly, the Vet should have been more caring... I think he made you feel worse... sorry..

I am hoping other members come on line soon...
 

artiemom

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Here is a homemade Pedialyte recipe, from StefanZ StefanZ ;

.""""" Or if you can find and buy minerale water with minerale salts (you see on teh label). - its a very good source for such salts.


The basic recipe will be:


1 litre of water

1 soup spoon of honey

1 teaspoon of kitchen salt


Mix it by boiling up, cool down to body temp, use""""""


There is also a recipe, sorry, I do not have it for kitten gruel. You can find it on line...

But most important is finding a new vet.. the ulcer needs to be treated..

The salt may sting the ulcer even more. But I am out of ideas....
 

StefanZ

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If you will need to use pedialyte a longer time, its well worth to find real glucose sugar / dextrose / dextropur. I have honey in the recipe, because honey does contain glucose sugar. But the real thing is better.
Its very easy to find in Sweden where I live, but seems difficult in USA!

Forumists told me, they found it in shops with gears for making beer,
And also some bakeries do have it. Contact some bakeries nearby and ask if you can buy a pound of glucose sugar from them.

Shops for atletes may carry it too , even if it may be with fragrance. it may be here as candy, or possibly even powder.
Take the powder of course.

IF you find real glucose, you may have slightly higher dosage than with honey, as glucose sugar isnt that sweet.

Also, you may add a trifle baking soda into the recipe, to make the ph more neutral.
 

foxxycat

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Just found your thread and the Convenia takes a good 24 hours to work. Yes there are some people who had bad luck with it but I have seen it work really well. The thing is people use it for all sorts of bacteria and my vet said it's mostly for treatment of ecoli/skin infections. My older cat had a bad bladder/kidney infection and it took 36 hours to start to work. We followed up with urine screen 10 days later-bacteria was not present.


The sub fluids take a few hours to work. The vet is wrong. When they did bloodwork can you post a picture of the results here?


With kidney disease you want to increase fluids. Check out this site:
Tanyas site for kidney disease
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat

There's a lot of info to go over. Basically you will need to feed smaller meal more often. Canned foods and baby meat food are a good option. The vets often push dry food. You can try a mix of both as we dont want to suddenly change his diet. You can add a meal a day of canned. Fancy feast turkey pate has always been a big hit in my house. Seafood medley too. Some say not to feed fish but at this point we need to get him to eat! I like a mixture of both. I will post some more in a bit but wanted to let you know a few things to try....she has a page all about not eating and other things. But if you could post blood work that would be great.


Honestly that vet is weird...gives you fluids to try at home then says nothing can be done...wrong!!! Yes kidney function is not reversible but we can utilize meds and foods to keep your baby comfortable.


Also kidney disease causes nausea at times so if I was you I would get a pill popper and ask vet about these medications:
Pepcid AC
Cerenia
These together can help with nausea. I would keep doing fluids as vet said. It won't hurt him and will help the kidneys. How is he doing today?
 
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catowner22

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Here is a picture of Bubby's mouth.

http://i64.tinypic.com/a5e0c8.jpg

You can see where the upper portion around his nose is swollen out, and there's a brownish/yellowish patch on the roof of his mouth. That's what he's dealing with. It's looked about like that since I took him.
 

Mamanyt1953

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OH THAT POOR BABY!

Yes, another vet is in order. Right away. Here are some articles to help you choose the best one for you:

How To Choose The Best Veterinarian For My Cat?
How To Talk To Your Vet
Cat Vet Checkup - What To Expect

Also, I think this may be something for a feline specialist. This link will take you to a site that has a search engine to find one in your area:

AAFP | American Association of Feline Practitioners

Another alternative...if there is a University near you with a Veterinary Medical School, that might be your best bet. They will NOT usually be cheaper than a regular vet, sometimes more expensive, BUT...they are practising cutting-edge feline medicine with the latest in treatments and diagnostic tools. They can to things that most vets just can't.

As for the ulcer, in the meantime, go to the grocery store and buy a box of Chamomile tea bags (that's always the German variety, which is safe for cats). Brew a cup of tea, chill it in the fridge, and dab the cool tea on his lip. It will soothe the pain, and is safe for him, even if he swallows a little bit.
 
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catowner22

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What I'm wondering is, has anyone seen anything like this? I've search a lot around the web and can't find anything about cats getting this. No pictures of other cats that have it. How does this happen?
 

Mamanyt1953

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I so want to be able to give you an answer, but there are so many things that it could be. I will say that when you see a vet again, I would ask about having it cultured so that you know what you are dealing with. It could be anything from what is known as a "rat ulcer" to something that he bit down on that is actually imbedded in his lip.
 
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catowner22

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Just found your thread and the Convenia takes a good 24 hours to work. Yes there are some people who had bad luck with it but I have seen it work really well. The thing is people use it for all sorts of bacteria and my vet said it's mostly for treatment of ecoli/skin infections. My older cat had a bad bladder/kidney infection and it took 36 hours to start to work. We followed up with urine screen 10 days later-bacteria was not present.


The sub fluids take a few hours to work. The vet is wrong. When they did bloodwork can you post a picture of the results here?


With kidney disease you want to increase fluids. Check out this site:
Tanyas site for kidney disease
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat

There's a lot of info to go over. Basically you will need to feed smaller meal more often. Canned foods and baby meat food are a good option. The vets often push dry food. You can try a mix of both as we dont want to suddenly change his diet. You can add a meal a day of canned. Fancy feast turkey pate has always been a big hit in my house. Seafood medley too. Some say not to feed fish but at this point we need to get him to eat! I like a mixture of both. I will post some more in a bit but wanted to let you know a few things to try....she has a page all about not eating and other things. But if you could post blood work that would be great.


Honestly that vet is weird...gives you fluids to try at home then says nothing can be done...wrong!!! Yes kidney function is not reversible but we can utilize meds and foods to keep your baby comfortable.


Also kidney disease causes nausea at times so if I was you I would get a pill popper and ask vet about these medications:
Pepcid AC
Cerenia
These together can help with nausea. I would keep doing fluids as vet said. It won't hurt him and will help the kidneys. How is he doing today?
Well I think he's eating okay for a cat that's very sick. About 1 to 1 1/2 cans of Hills kidney health food a day. They said low protein food only I believe. I give him a healthy chunk several times per day and he eats most of it. Should I actually give him another flavor? Or just stick with Kidney health?

I keep going back and forth over how I feel he's doing. Yesterday evening, he was not good. Late that night, he perked up a lot. Then today, mostly not good. He drinks a lot, I put extra water in his food. He can't always pee when he wants. Seems like when he does finally pee a lot he acts a little better. I gave him another 200ml of the fluid, and still I think he's dry going by the skin test. I just don't get that, are the fluids not enough? Higher dose needed?

Haven't seen any nausea. Just lethargy. He wants to sleep all day, under the bed. Still no noticeable change in his mouth. I think I'll go by and try to get a copy of his results, and then take him to a better rated clinic to see what they think. I thought for a second maybe things were looking okay, but now I've lost that again.
 

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Maisie was diagnosed with CKD two years ago. We do daily sub-q fluids, he's on medication, and he eats a renal diet. He still has a good quality of life.

I would suggest a second opinion from a vet who seems open to considering treatment options, and also will take the time to explain the situation better and answer your questions.

I can't get your picture to load (my internet is slow tonight) but I want to float the possibility that it might be a uremic sore? Maisie has gotten those a few times when he was out of whack, and getting his kidney levels back under control fixed it. I'm not saying that's for sure what it is - and like I said, I can't actually see it - but when you said kidneys and a mouth sore were both issues it made me wonder.

Best of luck to you and your kitty!
 

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Now, wait just a minute. We are talking as though Bubby definitely has kidney disease. But the bloods were drawn when he was, by the vet’s evaluation, very dehydrated. The BUN is going to be high in such cases, also possibly creatinine. Combined with the vet’s attitude, I’m not convinced this is what he has. He is only seven, that’s pretty young for chronic kidney disease. I don’t want to give you false hope but you need to have the facts and it doesn’t sound like anyone really has a firm grip on what’s going on here.

I would take him to see another vet. Try to get Bubby’s records, including lab results, from the current vet. Continue to give him the fluids, it does make them feel better when they are not getting enough by mouth. Continue pushing food. If you think he’s having a problem with solids, you can give the food a good whir in the blender to smooth it out and then add a little water to it to make it a “lappable” consistency. That may help him to eat. The kidney food is fine for him to eat, whether or not he has kidney disease.

Good luck, and please keep us updated.
 
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catowner22

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Maisie was diagnosed with CKD two years ago. We do daily sub-q fluids, he's on medication, and he eats a renal diet. He still has a good quality of life.

I would suggest a second opinion from a vet who seems open to considering treatment options, and also will take the time to explain the situation better and answer your questions.

I can't get your picture to load (my internet is slow tonight) but I want to float the possibility that it might be a uremic sore? Maisie has gotten those a few times when he was out of whack, and getting his kidney levels back under control fixed it. I'm not saying that's for sure what it is - and like I said, I can't actually see it - but when you said kidneys and a mouth sore were both issues it made me wonder.

Best of luck to you and your kitty!
What kind of meds? I'm still yet to get an opinion on why they only set me up with three days of fluids. I didn't consider if both issues could be related. The assistant said something about it that made little sense to me. Something about a gather or clustering of cysts? Maybe cyst wasn't the word she said. It seemed like she didn't really know how to explain it. I wish I had recorded the whole thing.

I just feel like they should have been thorough with me, and really explained what all was going on and made sure I understood. Instead, they were running back and forth between different patients only popping in for a brief moment now and then.

I noticed that you can buy the Royal Canin renal support food pretty cheaply on eBay, but the Hills is more expensive second hand. They didn't give me a prescription or anything. I don't understand why an RX is needed for a blend of food.
 

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I had a cat that got mouth cancer. His face started swelling and his eating a drinking decreased greatly. They said that his tooth had abscessed at some point and because it was never corrected it led to him having cancer. I had him only a few months and he was an old man. we decided to put him down. I am not recommending this by any means but it sounds close to what you may be experiencing. Have you had his teeth checked? did the vet look at his teeth at all?

Also rapid weight loss could be hyperthyroidism has that been checked at all? and untreated hyperthyroidism can lead to kidney failure!
 
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catowner22

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Now, wait just a minute. We are talking as though Bubby definitely has kidney disease. But the bloods were drawn when he was, by the vet’s evaluation, very dehydrated. The BUN is going to be high in such cases, also possibly creatinine. Combined with the vet’s attitude, I’m not convinced this is what he has. He is only seven, that’s pretty young for chronic kidney disease. I don’t want to give you false hope but you need to have the facts and it doesn’t sound like anyone really has a firm grip on what’s going on here.

I would take him to see another vet. Try to get Bubby’s records, including lab results, from the current vet. Continue to give him the fluids, it does make them feel better when they are not getting enough by mouth. Continue pushing food. If you think he’s having a problem with solids, you can give the food a good whir in the blender to smooth it out and then add a little water to it to make it a “lappable” consistency. That may help him to eat. The kidney food is fine for him to eat, whether or not he has kidney disease.

Good luck, and please keep us updated.
Yeah, I watched a video on a cat that was badly dehydrated. When they took the blood, the test results showed nearly everything was either too high, or too low. However, a lot of that changed once the cat's hydration got under control. As I've said before, he eats well I think. The food is soft and he seems to be able to lick most of it up, and I am adding water. He also drinks quite a bit actually, but still I fear he's a bit too dry, even with fluids. Again, I'm not sure why they think a pro-kidney blend of food is off limits to the general public.
 
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