Cat intros at a standstill

[acari]

cat nap Here is a GIF of K playing, this was just under a month after we adopted her. So T is definitely not in the picture yet. And back then she was (skinnier) willing to play on the stairs, which she isn't anymore...sigh...so hard to get her to exercise...

 

[calicosrspecial]

"scratching the couch" - This is getting her scent on something to "own" it. If you can get a scratching post that she can use in her area and then move it to the living room that could help her in feeling more secure and more ownership.

"Yes, today she ran up a few times (almost always when K is not within view or within reach). And she's gone back to asking K to play with trills, but K is ignoring her because K is a big meanie. " This is really good. It isn't that K is a "meanie" but just a bit skittish still (which is normal). It is REALLY good that T is trying to show her that she wants to be friends. T is going to be a big part of getting K to trust. It is GREAT that T is so good.

"It's not a spot where we can have a permanent litter box so I thought it wouldn't be good to leave one there during this period, because she (or T, if she gets to explore the area eventually) might get used to it and then we would move it, which might cause confusion. Do you think it would be better to leave one there for now anyway?" - Given it can't be there permanently I would try to work around any litter time and maybe find another space that might be permanent. But I know it is hard to find spots like that. SO I wouldn't keep a box there for the short term and try to work around the litter box use. I just don't want K to get accustomed to a box there and then have it taken away as changes like that can cause issues.

"Since this is the last day before my partner goes back to work we tried to give T as much time in the living room as possible.
K watched T a lot but didn't really engage. There was one bout of possible hide-and-seek where K went off to peer out from under my partner's computer desk, where she doesn't go often, and T came right up to the gate. I've already forgotten if there was any pawing today. If there was, it was "mild" (no sound) and only happened once, during the first living room session. The second living room session, K mostly slept/cleaned through and didn't much care about knowing what T was doing." - This is REALLY good!!!

"We moved them closer together to eat dinner today and they ate without issue, facing each other. K didn't really look up at T at all and was more concerned about some noise from neighbors outside. We'll see what happens as we continue to move them closer together!" - FANTASTIC!!!! Positive association/positive encounter. Well done!! Just moved them together slowly, a little bit. If there is some caution then just pull back a bit. Two steps forward and 1 or 2 steps back always happens so don't worry if there is a blip.

"I think we've really tired T out over the past few days and she's getting sleepy in unexpected places. I was sitting at the gate (back to the bottom of the steps) since K was turkeying there and giving treats, and T was dozing off between treats, with K watching.
It's surprising, because T's eyes were actually drooping closed, and I've never seen her sleep at the bottom of the steps before.
I assume this means T doesn't think K is much of a threat, which is probably a good thing? A cat wouldn't doze off in the presence of another cat they deemed scary or threatening, right?" - That is cool that she feels comfortable enough to sleep. AND it helps K see that T is relaxed, trusting and not a threat. Positive all ways around. No, a cat would not sleep by a potential threat.

LOVE the K play video. If you can get her interested (even when T is not around) that would be great. Make sure the toy acts like prey. Halting movements, hiding, etc.

K is SO ADORABLE!!!!

 

[acari]

This is getting her scent on something to "own" it. If you can get a scratching post that she can use in her area and then move it to the living room that could help her in feeling more secure and more ownership.

We have a scratching post in the living room and many scratching pads around. T doesn't seem to know how to scratch, I've never seen her use the pads or the post. Once in a blue moon she will scratch the carpeted pole on her cat tree. We're trying to teach her to scratch the post and pads but no luck yet.
K doesn't use the post either except maybe three times total (we've had the post since we adopted her), but she scratches the pads on the ground very regularly so we figure she just prefers that.

SO I wouldn't keep a box there for the short term and try to work around the litter box use. I just don't want K to get accustomed to a box there and then have it taken away as changes like that can cause issues.

Okay, thanks for the input. Sometimes we'd rather T have more time in the living room as it seems to be helping their relationship instead of waiting for K's #2 schedule, because K sometimes goes once a day at the same time, but sometimes adds another half-day...so it's hard to predict.

Make sure the toy acts like prey. Halting movements, hiding, etc.

We are, the stairs video is not a great example of how we normally move toys for them, because I filmed it while trying to move the toy at the same time. But while T will go after most movements and toys, K is uninterested at least 50% of the time, and the other 50% - once she pounces once or twice, she's done. And forget trying to get her to run after something...she only pounces if it's within paw's reach...
At first we thought it might be that she was bored of the old toys, because she would actually run (!) after new ones, but we've gotten a lot of new toys for her since then and she's ignoring them all. I'm not sure what to do about it but maybe it has something to do with T being around, so we'll see how much longer this behavior continues.

 

[calicosrspecial]

"We have a scratching post in the living room and many scratching pads around. T doesn't seem to know how to scratch, I've never seen her use the pads or the post. Once in a blue moon she will scratch the carpeted pole on her cat tree. We're trying to teach her to scratch the post and pads but no luck yet. K doesn't use the post either except maybe three times total (we've had the post since we adopted her), but she scratches the pads on the ground very regularly so we figure she just prefers that." - Some cats do some cats don't as much. Scratching is a way to transfer scent and to "own" something. To say "this is mine". Giving it as an option is what is important. So they can choose what to do.

"Okay, thanks for the input. Sometimes we'd rather T have more time in the living room as it seems to be helping their relationship instead of waiting for K's #2 schedule, because K sometimes goes once a day at the same time, but sometimes adds another half-day...so it's hard to predict." - It is hard. If you can add a litter box in a permanent place that would be best. Since we want them to go when they need to (and not outside of the box).

"K is uninterested at least 50% of the time, and the other 50% - once she pounces once or twice, she's done." - Yes, they do get lazy or bored or distracted. Well, I am not a big believer in it being the toy. To me it is usually about the movement of whatever it is. If the movement is good then sometimes cats get lazy or distracted (with another cat). So I am guessing it is probably a combination of lazy and a little that T is more interesting. Just keep trying to get her to play but if she doesn't it is not the end of the world.

 

[cat nap]

cat nap said:
Play-For-Her-Love

This is a really good mnemonic actually! And in the case of a male cat it can be replaced with "His" so it works well!

Yes, right, changing it to 'his' for a male cat, that never occurred to me. Nice touch.

I was thinking about the "Height" aspect, and where you mentioned that K does not really like heights.
Well, then, it's probably okay to think of Height as being 'safe Spaces' or 'Areas' where cats can go, since Calicos did mention that it had to do with cats in the wild, 'going up' high to avoid predators/coyotes and such.
Escape routes, and also places to rest, away from another cat.
It would also be a 'good space'...for cats to 'observe' their territory from,...so nothing wrong of thinking about it in terms of behind a protected gate.

The part I love the most, is the "Love" part, though,...in that having love, and showing calm emotions around our cats, while they are stressed really helps them out. You'll eventually notice that our cats will return that "love," a trillion times, when we need it most.

I don't think T considers anywhere in the living room as fully "safe" yet because if she starts scratching the couch or biting cords (no-no things), depending on the volume of our reprimand she will still dart back up to her room.
As for switching sides for the larger area, it would only serve for T to explore our "desk" space (where our computers are) and the kitchen, which while it would be good for her to do that...we don't have a way to block it off so that she still has access to the upstairs. The hallway is wider on the living room end than where we have the gate now and the gate is JUST too short for that end.
We might be able to put K in T's room or introduce T to the kitchen area without access to her room, if she is more comfortable and less skittish, but we will have to wait I think.

Sure, just go by when you think T is ready.

You have a really good handle on these cat intros, and you also know your cats really well.
Your observations of your cats are really spot on, and gets me to notice things about my own cats that I seemed to have forgotten, or stopped paying attention to.

Yes, today she ran up a few times (almost always when K is not within view or within reach). And she's gone back to asking K to play with trills, but K is ignoring her because K is a big meanie.

K is very moody I think. She is rarely in a cuddly or affectionate mood, rarely wants to play for real (just watches the toy and only puts a paw out if the toy is within reach), rarely wants to be friendly to T.
So I think T is getting some mixed signals if K is being nice one day but aloof the next...I guess we just have to wait and see if K becomes more consistent with her behavior towards T.

Excellent that T is again using her voice/trills to ask for play.
T will encourage K not to be able to resist those trills.

(K kinda sounds like me, in that I only get really interested in something for a while, and then move my interest onto something else, then it wanes again, and move onto something else. Sometimes go back to the original interest...so here's hoping that K goes back to her original interests, in much faster time-frames.
Okay, so I'm not a cat, and K is probably better at time-management than I am, too.)

Maybe K is just tired of watching T romp around the place.
Watching can be just as tiring, as actually playing.

I wouldn't call K a meanie...lol....She's just doing what some cats do.
K cannot help it if 'overly playful jumpy T' takes every move that K makes and thinks it's an attack.

Sure, it could be, but the beauty of these whole cat intros, is that you're giving both cats the time to become so bored of each other's reactions, that nothing is really seen as 'new and unexpected' to them.

It's interesting that K doesn't seem to mind the box being moved around (like before when T arrived, she preferred not to use it when it was closer to the old spot). Sometimes I feel like she has human logic, like maybe she understood we temporarily moved it there for her convenience.
It's not a spot where we can have a permanent litter box so I thought it wouldn't be good to leave one there during this period, because she (or T, if she gets to explore the area eventually) might get used to it and then we would move it, which might cause confusion. Do you think it would be better to leave one there for now anyway?

I read back, to C calicosrspecial 's response, and again it's so funny how we give you opposite answers.
(It's like when I use different GPS apps, and they give me alternate routes to the same location. The worst part is when the GPS wants you to u-turn on a major street. umm, no.)

I totally understand why calicos is giving that great advice, so as not to cause any problems in the future, in that some cats will find it difficult to re-locate to the new litter box location, and have out-of-box accidents, or want to go to the same temporary spots after the boxes have been moved.

I don't think that all cats are like this, though. Some cats are extremely fastidious, and will not go outside a litter box, and seek out their boxes by smell. While others extremely like routine, or location, and also use scent-smell, to look for their box, ...find it missing, and then just go on the floor.

Again, I think it all depends upon the cat, and wouldn't have any problem adding a third box in that location, so as to have all cats have access to litter boxes, and water bowls, ...at all times, wherever they are.
Not having access to a litter box and water bowl, is not something I would ever want a cat to be without.
Especially if they are feeling a bit stressed, naturally in cat intros.

Also just the comfort level of a cat knowing that both litter boxes, and water are always available, would get them more relaxed, IMO.

I don't see K as not knowing where you move her box to, if she's only ever had that accident on the stairs, and that was more her wanting to get to her box, but being afraid to.
From what you said about T, before, she doesn't have any problem about using any box, at anytime.

It's a hard one for you to decide, since both answers have validity.

 

[calicosrspecial]

"it's probably okay to think of Height as being 'safe Spaces' or 'Areas' where cats can go, since Calicos did mention that it had to do with cats in the wild, 'going up' high to avoid predators/coyotes and such. Escape routes, and also places to rest, away from another cat.
It would also be a 'good space'...for cats to 'observe' their territory from,...so nothing wrong of thinking about it in terms of behind a protected gate." - Exactly. I often use scratching posts, warm comfy bedding, etc in that area. Catnap did a great job in showing how encompassing it is.

"The part I love the most, is the "Love" part, though,...in that having love, and showing calm emotions around our cats, while they are stressed really helps them out. You'll eventually notice that our cats will return that "love," a trillion times, when we need it most.' _ EXACTLY!!

"I don't think that all cats are like this, though. Some cats are extremely fastidious, and will not go outside a litter box, and seek out their boxes by smell. While others extremely like routine, or location, and also use scent-smell, to look for their box, ...find it missing, and then just go on the floor." - Totally true.

"I think it all depends upon the cat, and wouldn't have any problem adding a third box in that location" - The only clarification I would have is to have the addition of a box in a permanent location. Not one that will disappear (temporary) at some point.

"so as to have all cats have access to litter boxes, and water bowls, ...at all times, wherever they are. Not having access to a litter box and water bowl, is not something I would ever want a cat to be without. Especially if they are feeling a bit stressed, naturally in cat intros." - ABSOLUTELY.

"Also just the comfort level of a cat knowing that both litter boxes, and water are always available, would get them more relaxed, IMO." - Absolutely.

I am very cautious of moving litter boxes around as the risk is greater for many cats. I don;t have enough info for K. I would try to find a permanent box addition in that space if at all possible (a space that will not have to be changed). Since cats tend to go a few times a day (pee) and once (poop) there may be ways to work around this and switch after a cat goes and the risk of needing to go in the next few hours is low IF a box can't find a permanent place in that area.

I tend to be more cautious on litter boxes and change. BUT we don't want a cat "holding on" or going outside of a box because of lack of availability.

 

[acari]

I wouldn't call K a meanie...lol....She's just doing what some cats do.

I call her all sorts of names but in affection and sometimes annoyance. She's "mean" at the moment because she's the one holding up everything, but I don't resent her for it because like you said, she's just doing her cat thing.
That being said, I feel like there have been a handful of times when she has gone over to paw at T just to get our attention, because she doesn't seem interested in T at all during those times, she's actually looking at us. So in that case I would say she's actually being mean!

I tend to be more cautious on litter boxes and change. BUT we don't want a cat "holding on" or going outside of a box because of lack of availability.

Understood! Because K has been so good about understanding the moving box situation I'm not too worried, but at any sign of lasting confusion or inappropriate elimination we'll put a "permanent" one here for the remaining duration of the introduction. And then, once K and T no longer have to be separated, we'll slowly migrate the new box to its actual, final location.

==========

We haven't been able to let T out into the living room but plan to this weekend.

K was in a bratty mood all last evening and night, and pawed at T multiple times (no noise, or small/short noises that were hard to hear). T is still sticking with running back out of reach before returning, or sometimes now even staying where she is.
There was one instance where I was upstairs scooping T's litter box, and as I was washing/drying my hands I heard the rice bag crackling (the one we use as a weight on the gate).
Usually, this sound is from T reaching her paws through the gate to touch the bag, which we discourage because her claws get stuck on the chicken wire on her way back in.
So I peer over from the second floor down to the bottom of the steps to admonish T...
But I see both K and T at the gate, quite close together, and they both look up at me at the same time as if they weren't doing anything wrong! But one of them must have been pawing at the other (so most likely K pawing at T) and hitting the rice bag.
The looks on their faces were very "It wasn't me, it was her."

Anyway, I realize that for now, things are staying mostly the same, and I don't need to bother you two with every single breath K and T take. I'll let you know if anything major happens!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Remember that cats take on our emotions so any negativity we may feel or anxiety they can pick up on and "mirror" that.

"I feel like there have been a handful of times when she has gone over to paw at T just to get our attention, because she doesn't seem interested in T at all during those times, she's actually looking at us." - This is interesting. It is possible she likes the attention. I don't think it is being mean, mischievous? Yes probably.

"There was one instance where I was upstairs scooping T's litter box, and as I was washing/drying my hands I heard the rice bag crackling (the one we use as a weight on the gate). Usually, this sound is from T reaching her paws through the gate to touch the bag, which we discourage because her claws get stuck on the chicken wire on her way back in. So I peer over from the second floor down to the bottom of the steps to admonish T... But I see both K and T at the gate, quite close together, and they both look up at me at the same time as if they weren't doing anything wrong! But one of them must have been pawing at the other (so most likely K pawing at T) and hitting the rice bag. The looks on their faces were very "It wasn't me, it was her." " - VERY interesting. Almost sounds like they were playing. This would not happen if K was not going to accept T. Another positive sign in their progress,

It is never a "bother". Post anytime if you need interpretation, advice, etc,

 

[cat nap]

I call her all sorts of names but in affection and sometimes annoyance. She's "mean" at the moment because she's the one holding up everything, but I don't resent her for it because like you said, she's just doing her cat thing.
That being said, I feel like there have been a handful of times when she has gone over to paw at T just to get our attention, because she doesn't seem interested in T at all during those times, she's actually looking at us. So in that case I would say she's actually being mean!

This is interesting. It is possible she likes the attention. I don't think it is being mean, mischievous? Yes probably.

Yes, total mischief.
K is smarter than us all. If K has figured out that her humans will come on over, or give her attention....then "who is really training who here?"

(this is like the t.v. show 'survivor' where you have to 'outwit, outplay, outlast'....except you won't be getting any million dollars at the end....and no one can be voted off the island.)

I get the feeling that K wants that gate down, but I'm not sure if T is ready yet.
What other messages can K be sending you?
I'm not seeing K as the holdup, but jumpy playful T needing more confidence.
T has to learn to play at K's elite olympic level of speed.

I have all sorts of names for my cats, too, no worries....our cats probably have a lot of 'names' for us, too.
With affection, of course.
(Flintstone, Flash, running-back, Why why why....lol. Captain Janeway, Her majesty, bossy boss...she looks like a boss....(miss independent by Ne-yo) etc.etc.

K was in a bratty mood all last evening and night, and pawed at T multiple times (no noise, or small/short noises that were hard to hear). T is still sticking with running back out of reach before returning, or sometimes now even staying where she is.
There was one instance where I was upstairs scooping T's litter box, and as I was washing/drying my hands I heard the rice bag crackling (the one we use as a weight on the gate).
Usually, this sound is from T reaching her paws through the gate to touch the bag, which we discourage because her claws get stuck on the chicken wire on her way back in.
So I peer over from the second floor down to the bottom of the steps to admonish T...
But I see both K and T at the gate, quite close together, and they both look up at me at the same time as if they weren't doing anything wrong! But one of them must have been pawing at the other (so most likely K pawing at T) and hitting the rice bag.
The looks on their faces were very "It wasn't me, it was her."

VERY interesting. Almost sounds like they were playing. This would not happen if K was not going to accept T. Another positive sign in their progress,

Lol. That is hilarious. For sure they were playing.
"It wasn't me, it was her."

Anyway, I realize that for now, things are staying mostly the same, and I don't need to bother you two with every single breath K and T take. I'll let you know if anything major happens!

It is never a "bother". Post anytime if you need interpretation, advice, etc,

Oh, nooo....no more daily updates.
I'll just have to into "K and T" withdrawal, now.
Oh, well, I knew it would happen sometime. (I actually thought it would have been back when your partner took that first close photo of your cats laying near each other. I knew then, that the cats would be fine.)

But yeah, it must be tough to post everyday. It's okay to take a break, and just sit back and enjoy.
Here's hoping for 'major good stuff' to happen soon!

 

[acari]

(Flintstone, Flash, running-back, Why why why....lol. Captain Janeway, Her majesty, bossy boss...she looks like a boss....(miss independent by Ne-yo) etc.etc.

"Why why why" is definitely a name I have for T, like when she opened the sliding closet doors in her room where I keep my craft supplies last night.

It's okay to take a break, and just sit back and enjoy.

Thank you!

But of course, I can't stay away and have a question for you:

T didn't quite finish her wet food today, leaving some scraps (not because she was nervous, I think, but she's slowed down her eating lately and seems to prefer her dry food over wet).
I was curious to know if K might eat off T's plate if I brought it over to her, and she did, which sort of surprised me. Does that mean anything? Do cats readily share plates?
I won't make a habit of it because I do want them to eat off separate dishes...anyway I figured K eating T's scraps just the once wouldn't hurt her, but let me know if that's a potential problem.

I hope you have a great weekend!

 

[calicosrspecial]

"I was curious to know if K might eat off T's plate if I brought it over to her, and she did, which sort of surprised me. Does that mean anything? Do cats readily share plates?" - I would say it is a very nice positive. I am sure there was some T scent so there is some positive association. Cats typically have food overcome most other things (that is why we use food in intros) so cats tend to share plates "readily". But the fact that K may know that T was enjoying it AND there was still some left for her she may accept T more knowing one important part of life (food) is not limited or taken away by T ("a potential threat"). Overall, I call it a positive.

The only issue of sharing is if T would have something that could be transmitted. But as long as T has all her shots, de-wormed, not ill, etc it should be fine. My girls eat off the same plate all the time. They love it. They love sharing. And cats tend to like what someone else has.

 

[cat nap]

"Why why why" is definitely a name I have for T, like when she opened the sliding closet doors in her room where I keep my craft supplies last night.

Oh, oh. Didn't foresee that happening.
(There are too many jokes in this one, from 'crafty cat', to 'that's why she wears seemingly 'white gloves' on her paws..to not leave any pawprints for human CSI detectors'...to 'what craft project did T want to work on?.' The possibilities are endless.)

Kitten-proofing in your home, must seem like it would be never-ending, but take heart....since it is often an 'on-going process'...in that we humans tend to have to respond to cat and kitten behaviour, as it occurs, because even if we think we 'kitten-proofed' areas and places, somehow our cats learn, or display, different 'skills' that we were not entirely aware of.
Like T opening a sliding closet door. (I would have missed securing that one...as I also didn't remember that young kittens love to climb my plastic shower curtain, and then attempt to climb other curtains, as well. )

I hope you didn't find all your craft supplies on the floor.
At least in this situation T could not easily have blamed K, like yesterday.
If you see T or K pointing at each other, don't believe them. "It wasn't me, it was her." (I still find that interaction priceless.)

But of course, I can't stay away and have a question for you:

T didn't quite finish her wet food today, leaving some scraps (not because she was nervous, I think, but she's slowed down her eating lately and seems to prefer her dry food over wet).
I was curious to know if K might eat off T's plate if I brought it over to her, and she did, which sort of surprised me. Does that mean anything? Do cats readily share plates?
I won't make a habit of it because I do want them to eat off separate dishes...anyway I figured K eating T's scraps just the once wouldn't hurt her, but let me know if that's a potential problem.

"I was curious to know if K might eat off T's plate if I brought it over to her, and she did, which sort of surprised me. Does that mean anything? Do cats readily share plates?" - I would say it is a very nice positive. I am sure there was some T scent so there is some positive association. Cats typically have food overcome most other things (that is why we use food in intros) so cats tend to share plates "readily". But the fact that K may know that T was enjoying it AND there was still some left for her she may accept T more knowing one important part of life (food) is not limited or taken away by T ("a potential threat"). Overall, I call it a positive.

The only issue of sharing is if T would have something that could be transmitted. But as long as T has all her shots, de-wormed, not ill, etc it should be fine. My girls eat off the same plate all the time. They love it. They love sharing. And cats tend to like what someone else has.

Totally agree with the above. My cats like to switch plates, too.

I hope you have a great weekend!

You both as well!

 

[cat nap]

Oh, forgot to post this, about chewing electrical cords.
It's a post from long ago, but it might still apply now. (all I did was copy and paste it, so don't think it takes me all that long to post it.)

This is just in case either K or T begin to chew wires.
My cats did, when kittens, and even now, I'll find the odd 'chew mark/puncture' on one of my 'charging cords'.
-------------
Preventing cord chewing by cats.

1. "Bitter Apple" with some success, since it lightly coats the wires, and gives it a slight bitter taste (though the wire has to be fully intact with no teeth puncture marks). and one cat ignored it.
2. The cord protectors I have used for squirrels in garage were called "split loom").... Search results for 'split loom' | Princess Auto
3. if you go to Home Depot or some electronic store and buy electric cord "protectors" that can keep all your cords covered. Cable Management - Electronics - The Home Depot
4. (they also sell "electrical wire race-way covers"....but they are pretty expensive)
5. you can also cover the cords in clear thick vinyl tubing which the Home Depot carries for plumbing.
6. like other TCS members mentioned, ... using empty paper tubes from paper towels or toilet paper rolls, but you would have to tape these or arrange them to cover the wire in total length. (worked for a bit, until I made some cat toy feeders from the tubes, and placed dry cat treats inside, which then confused my cats. They could not understand why it was okay to play with some tubes, but not the paper tubes that cover the wires. totally my mistake there.)
7. lastly, I tried clear wide tape and duct tape, to tape away the cords, which made the place look awful, but prevented access to the cords behind the t.v., phone, answering machine.
8. some TCS members said trying out a lemon, or citrus, also worked (I never tried that)
9. also using 'aquarium tubing' from a fish store

If your cat scratches doors, try "carpet remnants" and tape them up to the door, since all my cats loved to scratch carpets and furniture, which I would just cover with furniture throws, or buy corrugated cardboard scratching boards.
Furniture throw covers are great to protect chairs and sofa.
------------------
Hey A acari ....don't feel you have to respond to any of the above posts.
(I just sometimes remember things much later, and then post stuff.)
Plus, it's not like you asked or anything. This just gives me good practice...in my 'cut and paste' techniques.

 

[calicosrspecial]

"Kitten-proofing in your home, must seem like it would be never-ending, but take heart....since it is often an 'on-going process'...in that we humans tend to have to respond to cat and kitten behaviour, as it occurs, because even if we think we 'kitten-proofed' areas and places, somehow our cats learn, or display, different 'skills' that we were not entirely aware of." - SO TRUE!!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Also "sticky paws" tape is a good way to deter scratching.

I am going to steal your Cord Chewing list for someone else on here. Thanks for sharing.

 

[cat nap]

Also "sticky paws" tape is a good way to deter scratching.

I am going to steal your Cord Chewing list for someone else on here. Thanks for sharing.

I'm going to add your "sticky paws" tape to the list, too, when I write it up again.

That Cord Chewing list is actually from this old thread....but I had to update the 'http' internet url stuff.
CORD CHEWING!! HELP :(

ETA: C calicosrspecial ...Was this the "sticky paws" tape product?
I've never seen that before.
I have read that you can place 'aluminum foil paper' on sofas, tables and chairs.
Not sure how much aluminum foil you'd need for a sofa, though. Maybe just the ends, I guess.

 

[acari]

I would say it is a very nice positive.

Thank you! I thought so too but wanted to make sure, in case it was some weird cat thing.

I hope you didn't find all your craft supplies on the floor.

I didn't, actually! She was good about it, only my stack of notebooks were knocked over. I think she slept in there overnight.
Anyway, I have a childproof lock on the door now so we'll see just how smart she is!

Oh, forgot to post this, about chewing electrical cords.

Thank you very much for this info! K thankfully doesn't chew cords and ignores them entirely. T has been marking them a lot and we're keeping an eye on chewing...will definitely refer back to this if she starts in earnest.

==========

So I have a video from yesterday evening - sorry that you can't see what they're doing in the beginning. They had been playing (or what looked like playing) off and on for a while (only when I wasn't looking, of course) and I was hoping to catch something along those lines.
But instead, what happens here is that I think they were looking at each other, K paws but not too worryingly, and T put a paw up on the gate, and her claw gets stuck.
I don't realize this until the video cuts off though, while filming I had thought T was just keeping her paw there because her body language didn't look panicked to me.
While my slow human brain caught up, K was already kind of agitated and pawing at T's paw. And she makes a noise too, that doesn't sound very good to me...? But she doesn't directly paw at T so she must not have wanted to hurt her, right?



Anyway it would be great to hear what you have to say about the interaction.

T is definitely trying to play with K. She'll hide and peer out at K, stalk closer or suddenly run, then hop weirdly before dashing away. But I'm not sure K is always playing with T. She will hide a bit and peer out as well, but other than that I'm not sure what she might be doing that would be "playing". And that's only 1 time out of 10 - the other 9 times, she's turkeying/sitting in her bed, ignoring T's antics.
The gate gets in the way, of course. All they can really do is hide and seek, and maybe K is bored of that sometimes?

K's pawing hasn't really changed in intensity or speed but somehow her body language looks better when she's doing it, I don't know how to describe that. But her friendly interactions with T vary a lot depending on her mood (literally as I am writing this, T came up to the gate to ask to play, K went right up to her face and hissed, then pawed - but T stayed there, which is interesting).

I guess I'm incapable of not giving you an update...

 

[calicosrspecial]

The video - K came up to the gate a little "boldly" but then look how cautious K is pawing at T's paw. Almost like tapping. I see cats "tap" like that to play a bit. It also looks like K tries to sniff her paw for a second. So it looks like K went from let's show T who is boss to "T looks like she might be in trouble and maybe I should tr yo help". It is actually a very interesting change in intent in my view. And shows me that K does not want to hurt T. I see a lot of positives in this actually.

"T is definitely trying to play with K. She'll hide and peer out at K, stalk closer or suddenly run, then hop weirdly before dashing away." - T is a big part of getting them intro'd. T is trying to let K know that T does not mean harm.Through your intro actions and T's action it will convince K that T is not a threat and is a good thing. This is very helpful (what T is doing). And the video shows me that there is progress.

"But I'm not sure K is always playing with T." - Probably not at times. K still needs to trust that T is not there to make life worse (less food, less safety, etc).

"She will hide a bit and peer out as well, but other than that I'm not sure what she might be doing that would be "playing"." - It depends it may be and it may not be. Depends on other factors. I will say it is more defensive than offensive in my take.

"And that's only 1 time out of 10 - the other 9 times, she's turkeying/sitting in her bed, ignoring T's antics." - This is not always bad and ignoring is actually a positive.

"The gate gets in the way, of course. All they can really do is hide and seek, and maybe K is bored of that sometimes?" - Yes possible but again the more they are together without incident (fight, food taken away etc) then it is a positive that builds trust.

"K's pawing hasn't really changed in intensity or speed but somehow her body language looks better when she's doing it " - I totally agree. K's body language looks really good to me.

"But her friendly interactions with T vary a lot depending on her mood (literally as I am writing this, T came up to the gate to ask to play, K went right up to her face and hissed, then pawed - but T stayed there, which is interesting)." - Totally normal. Just as we humans treat people differently depending on our mood. That very well could have been K saying "don't try anything" and T knowing that it was defensive and not offensive and trying to communicate that she does not want trouble. T is staying there because she doesn't feel that K is that big of a threat. And the more confident T is the less K will feel the desire to "attack" her. A confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked.

"I guess I'm incapable of not giving you an update" - That is good. More information is better than less.

 

[cat nap]

So I have a video from yesterday evening - sorry that you can't see what they're doing in the beginning. They had been playing (or what looked like playing) off and on for a while (only when I wasn't looking, of course) and I was hoping to catch something along those lines.
But instead, what happens here is that I think they were looking at each other, K paws but not too worryingly, and T put a paw up on the gate, and her claw gets stuck.
I don't realize this until the video cuts off though, while filming I had thought T was just keeping her paw there because her body language didn't look panicked to me.
While my slow human brain caught up, K was already kind of agitated and pawing at T's paw. And she makes a noise too, that doesn't sound very good to me...? But she doesn't directly paw at T so she must not have wanted to hurt her, right?

The video - K came up to the gate a little "boldly" but then look how cautious K is pawing at T's paw. Almost like tapping. I see cats "tap" like that to play a bit. It also looks like K tries to sniff her paw for a second. So it looks like K went from let's show T who is boss to "T looks like she might be in trouble and maybe I should tr yo help". It is actually a very interesting change in intent in my view. And shows me that K does not want to hurt T. I see a lot of positives in this actually.

I agree with Calicosrspecial, from the above, and with you also, about how T's body language was not panicked at all.

To me this video shows that K might have been a bit worried about T, or not really understanding why T could not release her paw from the gate.
K had the opportunity to strike, hurt or even bite at T's paw,...but instead she made some sort of whimpering meow sound, and looked to be actually trying to help release T's paw. (I think what calicosrspecial said about 'tapping' is more accurate, than my description, but truly it still shows that K did not want to hurt T there.)

Amazing.

The gate gets in the way, of course. All they can really do is hide and seek, and maybe K is bored of that sometimes?

K's pawing hasn't really changed in intensity or speed but somehow her body language looks better when she's doing it, I don't know how to describe that. But her friendly interactions with T vary a lot depending on her mood (literally as I am writing this, T came up to the gate to ask to play, K went right up to her face and hissed, then pawed - but T stayed there, which is interesting).

I'm kind of getting that feeling, too, about the gate being kind of a nuisance to both K and T, in terms of being able to play with each other. And you are so right about K's body language looking so much better.

Could you possibly be able to slide the gate over, by say 1.5-2 inches, from the wall, so as to allow the cats to have full contact with their paws? Sort of create an opening, similar to a door being cracked open, where, each cat can touch the other one, with their paws.

I really think that both cats want to play, but that the wire gets in the way of this.
I do see that K still strikes fast at the gate, but maybe if she had some actual contact with T, then she wouldn't seem so fast or frustrated looking.

It's not like they would get full contact, just more contact.
If that makes any sense.

I guess I'm incapable of not giving you an update...

Is it wrong, here, to say, that the above sentence is 'music' to my ears.
Especially when photos/videos are involved.

 

[acari]

It also looks like K tries to sniff her paw for a second.

And shows me that K does not want to hurt T. I see a lot of positives in this actually.

To me this video shows that K might have been a bit worried about T, or not really understanding why T could not release her paw from the gate.

C calicosrspecial and cat nap these are great observations that I didn't really pay attention to. And I didn't think about the possibility of K trying to "help" T - I don't know if she realized that T was stuck?
My interpretation was more along the lines of, K thinking that T was overstepping her boundaries by (inadvertently) leaving her paw there.
But because K doesn't hit T's paw at the end, I think you guys might be right.

And the more confident T is the less K will feel the desire to "attack" her. A confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked.

At first when you mentioned this, I didn't quite understand (cats wanting to attack another, more timid cat, that acts like "prey"). I had kind of thought that it might be alright for T to be more scared/nervous, because then K could easily establish herself as Her Majesty the One and Only Queen. But now that T is less skittish and I'm watching their interactions, I can see how it makes sense that a more confident cat would help the relationship.

Could you possibly be able to slide the gate over, by say 1.5-2 inches, from the wall, so as to allow the cats to have full contact with their paws? Sort of create an opening, similar to a door being cracked open, where, each cat can touch the other one, with their paws.

I will have to think about this. The gate is something I made, very shoddily, so it's not...structurally sound. The way it's leaning up against the wall in that corner is a big part of it staying up...
But maybe the other side, where the rice bag sits, would be okay...

==========

So tonight we thought we would try putting K in T's room, shutting the door, and letting T roam free through the entire rest of the house. We ended up doing this for an hour.
I was with K and my partner was with T.
This was T's first time exploring the kitchen area - she sniffed around a lot but that's about it, which is par for the course in a new setting.
K did a lot of crouching-cat-sniffing-cat (that's supposed to be a Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon joke) but she was much more subdued and nervous than I thought she would be. She refused to eat any treats at first, and after doing her scent rounds, she went to the door and asked to be let out, which of course I couldn't do.
She then only ate treats if I hand-fed them to her, she wouldn't eat them off the ground.
T ran up to the door and K hyper-focused on the crack, and they had a hissing/growling/pawing round. My partner reported that T was sort of tense but also sort of playing? To me, K was definitely not playing, and ignoring treats, and my reassurances. Her pupils were blown the entire time we were in T's room.
My partner tried to get T downstairs, away from the door, and was only successful as long as he was good enough at distracting her with a toy - stop for one second too long and T was back at the door of her room.
K spent the rest of the time focusing on the crack, patrolling, asking to be let out, and lying down. Toward the end she started eating treats off the ground, which I thought was good.

I didn't notice any overt marking from K, though she did scratch at an armchair that we have in T's room, much like she scratches the couch.
By the way, her scratching is more like stretching, she puts her claws out but pulls her paws away instead of dragging them down like what you would expect when you hear "cat scratching the couch".
She didn't use T's litter box.
T on the other hand tried to use K's box many times but I think only ended up with one #1 and a tiny #2. From what my partner tells me she tried her best to conjure up more "stuff". I hope K isn't put off by it but I feel like K would prefer her litter box be private only to her (for example I feel like she wouldn't try to use T's...but just a feeling).

Actually, we tried to limit this site swap to half an hour, but it ended up taking a full hour because we were both trying to get at least one of them into their carrier, so that we could swap back without them meeting.
K will ignore even a mountain of treats if they're inside the carrier, because she knows it's a trap, but if you can pick her up you can generally drop her in and shut the zipper without much issue. But she has to let you pick her up.
T is impossible to physically put into her carrier (and even if you could, she'd dash out before you could blink), she has to go in by herself, and usually we achieve that by putting food or treats inside.
K didn't want to be picked up so I had to work at that for a while, and my partner was unsuccessful trying to entice T to enter her carrier fully.
Every time we fail to close up the carrier with T, it gets 75% more difficult to get her in there again, because she gets scared of the carrier, of us, of the treats, of everything.
I say this in affection only: sometimes they are so smart...but sometimes they are so dumb...

At the hour, K finally let me pick her up and I dropped her in, closed up the carrier, and out we went.
T ran back upstairs because she got scared of me holding K's carrier (large unfamiliar object, panic! panic!) so I put the gate up behind her, and let K out with a treat waiting.
K ate the treat immediately, which I didn't expect given her earlier reluctance in T's room. But I guess she's so familiar with the downstairs area that she felt confident?

So after the site swap we had two cats with their "feathers" ruffled, but there was one more surprise:



They both laid down here totally chill about a minute after we returned things to "normal".
I don't know how long it would have gone for because I wanted to reward them with treats, but was too clumsy and accidentally threw a treat to T which bounced off the gate to land near K, who got up because she wanted the treat...I ruined it...
P.S. K's "winter fur" in full effect...I swear she normally does not look so round. Somehow she manages to maximize her size when she is lying down.

The "swap" itself I feel like didn't go that well, but since they both relaxed afterwards I feel like it's a good sign? What do you think?
I am wondering if the closed door stressed K out more than it would have if we had put the gate up instead. They were almost acting like when we first brought T home and had her closed up in the room, except this time the places were switched.