I think you're right pearl99 . I never saw it this way.Then the second, T comes up and at the apex immediately looks away and backs off, goes no further. K thinking "let's see if T learned...oh T is backing off!" or K wasn't as bothered this time, but if T had kept coming may have gotten a swat. Sometimes I wonder if the give out some discipline for a lesson then back off of it for a bit. Then T sees the chance to try more. Test boundaries in working things out.
If one cat is giving a lesson to the other cat, and then later backs off,..and then watches and observes how that first lesson's interactions have altered their relationship.
It does run both ways with both cats testing each other's boundaries.
What confuses me, is when one cat wants to dominate the interaction, and appear as top-cat,...but acts way too aggressive...but at the same time wants to play. The cat who wants to dominate, actually looks back for more play.
How could they not get that they just overpowered the other cat, ran them off, and that the other cat does not want to play that way.
I know it has to be their natural instinct to want to be top-cat, ...but still...why do some take the games so seriously.
If each cat is testing the boundaries, then it does make more sense, ...that the next interaction will be based on how the previous one went.
Cats don't see their interactions the same way that us humans do...so that is definitely a good thing.
What we might see as excessive, or too aggressive...the cats might not.
With the passage of time, space, food, play,...they do eventually work things out...except in cat-intros we humans do have to supervise, and intervene, ..so as not to let one cat get bullied, and to also lessen all the stress levels between each cat.
I always saw it as both cats learning from each other concerning how to act and play...but I didn't give enough credit to one cat actually teaching lessons to another.
The way you explained it makes more sense.
(Yes, it's like playing 'chess with cats'...but the cats are 3 moves ahead...and us humans are just reading the rules.)I'm kind of at the same place with my current 4. I'm having to let them decide where they are comfortable and where not and when to venture and when not. Room swapping worked well with past intros but with the kitties now not as much. Always learning. And adjusting what to do.
Adjusting is always good.
At least it teaches us humans how to be flexible, and only deal with the immediate moments, and let the cats teach us some more.
The video #27 did look like a territory dispute, ...with K chasing T off and away.It's hard to know with K. I don't really think it has to do with me, she's run past me before to get to T.
I just get the feeling that it used to be about territory, but now it's not (or less so).
It's more that K's personal bubble for T has an extremely large radius.
For example, the kitchen and living room could easily be considered "K's territory". If K is in her hammock in the kitchen, and T is wandering around, K only reacts if she gets within a certain distance. Otherwise she might watch T, she might ignore her.
In the living room, if K is in her box, T might be under the couch or on the windowsill...or even on top of the couch...or, a few times, under the little table right next to K's box - K only reacts depending on her mood and what exactly T is doing. It's not only her presence that puts K on alert.
If K is sleepy, and T is sleepy right next to her, it's alright. She'll settle down even though she knows T is there.
If K is in her box and T is jumping around noisily in the paper next to her, K will get up and swat at T, chase her off.
A lot of interactions makes it seem like K just doesn't like T being too close, and what counts as "too close" is inconsistent.
Do you think that still sounds like a territory dispute?
But after watching it some more times, and how you mentioned that T was bowing/crouching/flattening down, (similar to what dogs do),..then No, ..it could have been an aggressive play interaction. Especially if K looked at T crouching down, as a sign of a threat, or an early sign of an oncoming pounce. So the subsequent run, lunge and hiss from K could have all been done in Play.
I suppose it depends upon how K interpreted all the actions that T was doing.
And you're right,...the territory dispute would be happening all the time...not just at the litter box, ...or at the gate.
I remember you mentioned, previously, about the 'perimeter around K' that T is allowed to enter.
So yeah, it doesn't really sound like ALL the territory.
But at the same time, when T gets too close...or gets into K's space...it kind of is 'territory'.
It's like K sees her 'personal space' as being invaded, ..but not all the time.
The part I found interesting is in video #27, at the 0.30 mark, ...K does look at you...and then seems to look at T.
That means that K is listening to you...even if you said nothing verbally, but just stood there.
I take this as an extremely good sign that K is respecting the boundary, and is respecting both you and also T.
K seems to want T to come back down the stairs, ...which is kind of strange...since she just 'yelled' (hissed) at T...a few seconds ago.
I wasn't thinking of shutting K into T's room....but rather switching cats onto the other side of the gate.I thought we decided in the end that it wasn't worth it to get K accustomed to T's room - we would have to shut her in there and she simply stays anxious while she's in there. She's never spent any significant time inside, even before we got T, and it was "her" room to begin with...she just left it immediately and took over the entire rest of the house instead.
It's the only room where K doesn't go, not because we stop her from doing it (unless T is in there with her treat ball) but because she chooses not to. She only goes upstairs in the morning to meow at us through the bedroom door (and T is shut in her room at that time).
I don't think she has any interest in claiming the territory and I don't think T particularly cares if K leaves her scent around in there either, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm just not sure about stressing K out. What benefit do we get if K gets comfortable in T's room?
So K gets some time upstairs,...while T is downstairs.
Not long at all. Extremely short.
Just an experiment to see how K would react.
If you think that it would just add more stress to K, then really don't bother doing it.
K might not be ready, and T might also not be ready, yet.
All it would show you is if K could stay upstairs or on the stair landing without being too upset.
Oh, okay.I've been thinking about this too but 1. T would never let us get a harness on her. I won't get into it but let's just say simply holding her down for five seconds to apply flea medication is an ordeal. She just knows when something is up no matter how casual we are.
And 2. The cats wouldn't have free roaming abilities and would be tethered to us, which is even more human interference than I would like. It could be detrimental to T since she runs away from most things in any mood, and we would be stopping her from doing so...unless we only had the harness on K? But then that seems really mean to K...
(The flea medication I use is called Revolution, and it has an extremely strong smell of alcohol, which causes both my cats to run in terror, trying to get away from the smell. Why they ever changed the ingredients, I don't know.)
The harness, or harness jackets, would have to be on both cats, so that one cat does not feel singled-out, or strange.
You wouldn't have to actually tether them to you, but rather use a long-lead to allow the cats to move, but not at a fast pace, as running or lunging.
But yeah, if you think that it would cause too much chaos, and stress, then it's not crucial to use.
And if the cats would bite you while putting the harnesses on, then again, it's not worth the danger, pain, or aggravation.
We'll brainstorm other ways to slow K down, with distraction, blocking her line of sight, and like you're already doing.
K is listening. She just is not yet consistent with it.
They both have made so much progress from when they both started.
That actually sounds good.Sorry if I made it sound like we have to go upstairs a lot. We don't, it's only happened a handful of times. Usually T just runs away preemptively and K doesn't chase.
And then the other chases are where K stops somewhere between her immediate spot or at the gate.
We were thinking that we would remove the gate once we were able to have the gate open all day for at least a week. We almost got there last time but then there was the big to-do that I wrote about when K was especially moody.
The gate does serve a very useful purpose, ...not only is it a safe spot that T seems to favour for sleeping on...(and no wonder, since T has her back protected...so what's not to like about that. That photo was great and super adorable and funny. It's like you told T my dumb idea of hiding the gate for 10 minutes...and T actually flipped over. The expression on T's face is priceless. No need to tell T any of my ideas. I don't want T to send 'daggers' my way, or send 'memos' to my cats. )
She does NOT look like that. haha.Haha! That's actually just kind of how she looks. She looks like that at us too. The only time she doesn't look angry or annoyed is when she is asking for food or being sleepy. And sometimes even then.
I've seen her in the other videos, gifs and photos. She does not.