Cat intros at a standstill

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stand with ukraine
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I will see how long T keeps up being endlessly energized, but K is already soooooo lazy. She really just sleeps the day away. I wonder if T will bother K during the day once they are out together?
(Actually, I learned that cats are 'crepuscular', here on TCS,...since I always thought they were nocturnal. Nope.
You probably already know this, since you read a lot, but I found it interesting:
https://www.cuteness.com/blog/content/are-cats-nocturnal
Crepuscular animal - Wikipedia
Timing of Feline Activity - WikiVet English
I'm sure there are better articles out there, and I have to read about 5 different sources until I believe it for real. I've always been a bit of a 'doubting diana'...and then while reading articles, it leads me into other terms like 'cathemeral'...and then I get more confused.
But it's good to learn something new everyday. :) Like that 'meowing at humans' theory...that was new and unusual,... so now I have to ultra observe my own cats and hear what they do.)

I'm thinking that T will want to play with K not only during the day, but probably at 4am-6am and then again at 4pm-7pm, maybe a bit at 2am, and then some more at noon/midnight, 10am/pm...Basically you'll observe their patterns. They'll have their own. :stars: :blush:
But yeah, T will probably bother K...in a good way. Hopefully, the cats will sync their time, but if not, then that's pretty normal, too. Sometimes one cat wants to sleep while the other one does not.

K is probably not lazy, she just enjoys quality sleep time. Maybe K is just dozing, versus deep sleeping, and more alert than she appears. Though with some of K's sleep positions, she does look to be enjoying the slumber...umm...beauty rest/cat naps/dreams. ;)
Maybe it would be easier to set up the gate blocking off the kitchen (and without all the cardboard, bracing tables, etc), feed K on that side, and T on the other, and then slowly slide the gate to the side as they eat? So the gate would stay partially in place, but be open enough for them (and us!) to get through. Hopefully they would be flexible (and hungry) enough to not mind that they're eating in slightly different places than usual.
:yeah:
I like this above idea.

I also like the idea you had previously, of just suddenly removing the gate.
Say that K and T are playing at the kitchen gate, and they are both in a really good play session.
Then you just tell them, "okay cats, now's the time the gate comes down. I want you both to behave and play nicely. You both know each other, and have been around each other, so the only difference is the gate will be open. I want your co-operation, okay?"

At this point both cats will stop and look at you, maybe run away, but hopefully not far.
They may think you are a little odd, but hopefully not.
You confidently slide the gate away...and act like 'no big deal'...and just carry on with whatever you were doing.
(Basically you are observing them, but don't act like you are.)

"Okay, cats, no big deal....play nice."

However you do it, ...will be fun. Just keep reminding the cats to stay calm, 'hey, be nice', and 'no big deal'.
Just like any other day of the week.
I'll update if anything interesting happens! In the meantime I'm going to try my best at clipping their nails. Wish me luck.
I shall wish you luck, ...but I know you don't need it. :blush:
Just do it while they are sleepy. :thumbsup:
I have all the confidence in your skill levels. You're probably already at pro-levels, so after this you will be above-pro. :greenpaw::bluepaw:
 

calicosrspecial

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"Do you use two toys? What happens if they both want the toy?" - Yes, ideally is possible. If they want the same toy and are focused on the same toy that is fine. If one retreats then distract the one with the other toy. If one attacks the other cat then break it up with a pillow or cardboard and distract and/or distract with the toy or food or a voice.

"I get the feeling we will have to use lots and lots of treats...so we will probably feed them just a bit less in the first half of the day. That way they will be hungrier for their meal and the treats might have more impact." - Possibly. If you think it will make it more likely to have a positive encounter than I say good idea. If they choose food/treats over focusing negatively on each other it is a positive.

"That's what I thought too. So if we do it during mealtime like you suggest, then T would come all the way down with the gate mostly in place, and hopefully they would both eat as usual, and then we would remove the gate...?" - Yes. And practice being able to move the gate smoothly so it doesn't startle/scare the cats. If it is too hard we will figure another way.

"It's kind of impossible since it's so large and cumbersome. I wouldn't be surprised if T runs away if we move it. And if that happens then it would create a problem when she comes back down..." - Ahhhhhh, ok, ignore the last post. Hmmmm, think about how to remove the gate in the most efficient way.

"Maybe it would be easier to set up the gate blocking off the kitchen (and without all the cardboard, bracing tables, etc), feed K on that side, and T on the other, and then slowly slide the gate to the side as they eat?

"I'm thinking that T will want to play with K not only during the day, but probably at 4am-6am and then again at 4pm-7pm, maybe a bit at 2am, and then some more at noon/midnight, 10am/pm...Basically you'll observe their patterns. They'll have their own. :stars: :blush:
But yeah, T will probably bother K...in a good way. Hopefully, the cats will sync their time, but if not, then that's pretty normal, too. Sometimes one cat wants to sleep while the other one does not." - It is pretty amazing how cats tend to just sleep when the humans are gone. But cat LOVE to hunt at dawn and dusk and move around during the middle of the night. Catnap is exactly right on the timeline.

"You confidently slide the gate away...and act like 'no big deal'...and just carry on with whatever you were doing." - GREAT advice from catnap!!!
 
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acari

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(Actually, I learned that cats are 'crepuscular', here on TCS,...since I always thought they were nocturnal. Nope.
You probably already know this, since you read a lot, but I found it interesting:
https://www.cuteness.com/blog/content/are-cats-nocturnal
Crepuscular animal - Wikipedia
Timing of Feline Activity - WikiVet English
Thank you for the links!!
A few weeks ago I was trying to correct someone who said cats were nocturnal, but I forgot the word "crepuscular" and said "diurnal" instead, which is the opposite of nocturnal...
I'm thinking that T will want to play with K not only during the day, but probably at 4am-6am and then again at 4pm-7pm, maybe a bit at 2am, and then some more at noon/midnight, 10am/pm...
Well, we'll avoid the night/early morning times, because even after they can be together without the gate, I think T has too much kitten energy for us to trust her to be out at night. Our plan is to put her into her room while we're asleep.
But the 4-7pm and 10am/pm times are pretty spot on for both of them. We'll see!
I shall wish you luck, ...but I know you don't need it. :blush:
Just do it while they are sleepy. :thumbsup:
K is sleepiest during the day but I've only managed to do one claw so far. She shakes her paw if you touch her so I get nervous cutting her nails, because I don't want them to get caught/hooked in the cutter if she shakes away...or if I happen to cut right when she shakes, and possibly cutting too much.
T, I don't think it's really possible yet. But we are trying to touch her paws a lot and I've been giving her treats while snapping the cutters near her.
T is generally non-confrontational, so I think K is the one who definitely needs her claws trimmed.
Possibly. If you think it will make it more likely to have a positive encounter than I say good idea. If they choose food/treats over focusing negatively on each other it is a positive.
I think treats will definitely be present. But maybe we could also (even if they've just eaten their dinner) set aside little bits of pate for them, because they really like it and it's relatively new.

-----

K, to me, has gotten used to the routine of us setting up the gate on one side or the other, and T being out for a while in the evening.
It's off and on if they play but usually there's at least one interaction. Sometimes T will feel like playing but K won't, and vice versa.

Yesterday they had a grand time running back and forth from the gate, and it seemed like they wanted to chase each other but the gate was in the way. They took turns waiting at the gate for the other to come back.

Today, they had a few interactions at the beginning of the gate session, less joyful than the day before...after the first say, ten minutes (out of little more than an hour), they both settled wherever (K in her bed, T under the couch).

It was definitely good to wait the extra week, I think they're much more comfortable with each other now.

We'll probably try a ten-minute meeting (barring any complications...) on Saturday.
 

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K, to me, has gotten used to the routine of us setting up the gate on one side or the other, and T being out for a while in the evening.
It's off and on if they play but usually there's at least one interaction. Sometimes T will feel like playing but K won't, and vice versa.

Yesterday they had a grand time running back and forth from the gate, and it seemed like they wanted to chase each other but the gate was in the way.
They took turns waiting at the gate for the other to come back.

Today, they had a few interactions at the beginning of the gate session, less joyful than the day before...after the first say, ten minutes (out of little more than an hour), they both settled wherever (K in her bed, T under the couch).

It was definitely good to wait the extra week, I think they're much more comfortable with each other now.

We'll probably try a ten-minute meeting (barring any complications...) on Saturday.
Excellent!

Sounds like both K and T had a huge time playing, and just wore themselves out. haha. :catrub:
For sure they needed the next day to re-energize, and sleep. Running around must be tiring...even for young cats.

(It's like both cats are Track and Field Sprinters, Hurdlers, and Jumpers in action. Thankfully they have not attempted any high jumps. Unless those first attempts by T were actually high jumps.
Seems like they like obstacle courses, too.) :blush:

Good, too, that they are more comfortable with each other. :cool2:

I figure that you'll go longer than 10 minutes, since both cats look like they really enjoy playing. :biggrin:
But your plan sounds really good.
I'm sure that you'll both be tired on Saturday, cats included,....but the good kind of tired. :cloud9:
I'll happily await any updates the next day. :)
 

calicosrspecial

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"I think treats will definitely be present. But maybe we could also (even if they've just eaten their dinner) set aside little bits of pate for them, because they really like it and it's relatively new." - Great!!

"Yesterday they had a grand time running back and forth from the gate, and it seemed like they wanted to chase each other but the gate was in the way. They took turns waiting at the gate for the other to come back." - That is cute. Some cats LOVE to chase (and be chased). Others LOVE to wrestle. Some cats are really rough, others more gentle. How they act after is really the tell as to how THEY think it is going.

"Today, they had a few interactions at the beginning of the gate session, less joyful than the day before...after the first say, ten minutes (out of little more than an hour), they both settled wherever (K in her bed, T under the couch)." - Great that they settled. If you feel it getting a little negative distract as needed to make it positive.\

"It was definitely good to wait the extra week, I think they're much more comfortable with each other now." - I think so too. But I do think they were in a better place than I realized. This week has been really impressive.

"We'll probably try a ten-minute meeting (barring any complications...) on Saturday." - I think that is good. Try to get a judge on how they are feeling. And just go by how positive it is. It it is only 2 minutes and all positive that is great. It is all about maximizing positives and minimizing negatives. Prepare your self on distracting and being emotionally prepared. The good news is, I think however it goes this weekend we are going to be fine.
 
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acari

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So...:sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

We put the gate blocking off the kitchen without any extra bracing, cardboard, etc.
We had their dinners ready and we let T out, and both cats were focused on their food.
Then, we slid the gate over to open it before we put the food down (the plan was to use the food as a distraction so they didn't run at each other).
K didn't care because she wanted her dinner, and T at first was wary of the gate moving, but then wanted to come over to K's side. So we put the food down right away as we didn't want T coming so close to K immediately.

IMG_20200201_180800.jpg

They ate like this without issue.

T finished first while K was still licking at her plate, and T tried to walk over to K.
K swatted her immediately 3 - 4 times and hissed, then went back to licking her plate.
Here, we figured that K was just telling T to back off because she wasn't done eating, it felt acceptable.
T ran off, my partner went to check on her, said she seemed generally alright.
K finished licking her plate, then went to lick T's too.

T was roaming around the living room as she usually does, and K went to crouch under a table we had in the hall. We started doling out treats, which they both ate readily.
T was a bit jumpy about coming closer to K, which made sense given K's earlier swatting, but her tail was still up and she was trotting around to explore.
K was very watchful and seemed cautious, not sure what to do about T.

I kept giving treats to K, and T took the opportunity (while K was eating a treat) to jog past me and her to the kitchen area, past the gate.

K came out to watch T, then she got a few steps closer, and they made eye contact.
T seemed friendly but K suddenly ran to her and swatted (looked hard) 4 - 5 times in quick succession, and T fell over backwards showing her belly (not sure if fighting or submissive) before running away (we were also already saying "HEY" at K).

Unfortunately, K ran after T - it really didn't seem playful to us, and we couldn't distract since they were running...K didn't bother listening to us at all.

We went after them and saw that T went under the couch. K paused for half a second before going under after her.
There was about two or three seconds where we couldn't see or hear them (T might have made a tiny noise of some kind), then my partner lifted the flap covering the bottom of the couch, and T dashed out. Body language not great, but could have partially been from us loudly saying "HEY" to K - she can't know it's not directed at her). She ran up to the first landing of the stairs, I went to grab the gate, T then ran all the way up into her room and into her little house (where she goes when she is very scared).

K at this point is turkeying under the couch, looking worried and anxious.

I would note that T ran out from the left side of the couch and it looks like K stayed on the right - so I don't know if they were in physical contact when they were both under.

My partner went upstairs to talk to T and check to make sure she wasn't bleeding or anything in case K was using her claws (which are trimmed, just FYI). He reported that T seemed alright, just scared, no injuries.

I set up the gate back at the bottom of the stairs as usual and brought up T's dry food (she usually gets it after her wet).
We put most of her dry food into a treat ball using a funnel, and T came out easily while my partner was doing that - acting normal again after (she's playing with it right now, I can hear it as I type).

K stayed under the couch for 5-10 minutes, anxious, before coming out, walking over to the kitchen area.
Her body language seemed unhappy to me, which makes sense.
She went behind the curtain to the window/balcony door (a favorite hangout for both of them) for a while before making her way slowly to her pink bed, where she kneaded unhappily for a few seconds. She looks to be napping or sleeping now.

I don't know what to do but I feel like this went horribly. It could have been worse, obviously...but while we weren't expecting them to curl up with each other and snuggle, we didn't think K would go after T like that. All in all this no-gate meeting lasted only 5 minutes, including eating.
T sticks her paws out from under the gate now at the bottom of the steps all the time and K has never gone after them when T is relaxing. And the past few days it's been hit or miss with them playing/interacting when we set up the gate in the living room/kitchen, it seems like one will want to play and waits at the gate, but the other isn't interested, and then they switch.
All of that made me think that K wouldn't be violent when they first met but I guess not...?

I know both of you said to expect chasing and hissing but what do you think (I know it's hard to judge based just on my descriptions)?
Another note is that other than the first hissing I mentioned from K, I don't think she was making noise (like fighting noises).
My gauge of cat interactions isn't very good...

Sigh I've just gone back and reread what both of you told me to expect, and I didn't realize I'd forgotten it all because I was nervous about the meeting. You both warned me to be calm and that there would be things like chasing/swatting/hissing...I'm a horrible student.
So maybe we did the wrong thing by breaking it up so quickly and escalating our "HEY"s, which probably contributed to them being scared? Maybe when they were under the couch we should have tried to distract with treats or wand toys?

If chasing/swatting is expected behavior, and we break it up if it seems negative, are we supposed to keep them separated for the rest of the night? Or only long enough to give them positives (food, toys, pets) before trying again?

What do we do now? Do we just wait another week, doing the same thing as before, and try again next week without the gate? Or could we try again sooner than that?
Should we block off access to the bottom of the couch? It's K's equivalent to T's house (where she goes when she's especially scared), so we felt we shouldn't limit her access to that space...but T can also go under, and T has been hanging out there a lot lately.

T has since finished emptying her treat ball and has come down to the bottom of the stairs a few times, which is normal. K woke up to look in T's direction but she stayed in her bed (still sleeping now).

:bawling:
 
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acari

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Another update: They have both been really subdued. K has been sleeping and pouting, or pouting while sleeping, and T has been really, really quiet on the stairs.

It isn't yet 9 PM here though, so we'll see how they act starting around 10 PM.

I just gave them treats at the gate and K came right over. They seem to be kind of shy around each other now. T sort of put her paws up to invite K to play but K just hid behind the laundry detergent (but didn't walk away).
 

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I don't know what to do but I feel like this went horribly. It could have been worse, obviously...but while we weren't expecting them to curl up with each other and snuggle, we didn't think K would go after T like that. All in all this no-gate meeting lasted only 5 minutes, including eating.
T sticks her paws out from under the gate now at the bottom of the steps all the time and K has never gone after them when T is relaxing. And the past few days it's been hit or miss with them playing/interacting when we set up the gate in the living room/kitchen, it seems like one will want to play and waits at the gate, but the other isn't interested, and then they switch.
All of that made me think that K wouldn't be violent when they first met but I guess not..
.?
A acari ...I think you're way too hard on yourself.:alright: :heartshape:

When I first saw your first sentence, and then the photo...I thought..."Oh, oh..this is going to be a 'food related' altercation".
But no, I was wrong. It's great that both K and T managed to eat so close to each other. Wow.

Remember, K is a little food/treat obsessed...which can be both a good and slightly problematic issue.
In this case, it was entirely normal for K to swat at T...since K really does like her food, and does not want any other cat near her, while eating.
So T will learn this boundary from K,...and hopefully avoid it in the future.
I know both of you said to expect chasing and hissing but what do you think (I know it's hard to judge based just on my descriptions)?
Another note is that other than the first hissing I mentioned from K, I don't think she was making noise (like fighting noises).
My gauge of cat interactions isn't very good...
Your gauge of cat interactions is above excellent. :agree:
They are fantastic, actually. :thumbsup:
(It's above par...which I hope means really good in golf...since I never get golfing terms.)

I think you were just maybe expecting "perfection"...which is kind of hard...and only happens in movies. :blush:
Sigh I've just gone back and reread what both of you told me to expect, and I didn't realize I'd forgotten it all because I was nervous about the meeting. You both warned me to be calm and that there would be things like chasing/swatting/hissing...I'm a horrible student.
So maybe we did the wrong thing by breaking it up so quickly and escalating our "HEY"s, which probably contributed to them being scared? Maybe when they were under the couch we should have tried to distract with treats or wand toys?
You're not a horrible student! :lol:
It's totally natural to be excited and nervous, about the first meeting. :)
If you weren't then I'd start to think that you were a robot or something. Then I'd get worried. :cool2:

Besides...who has the time to reread or remember all the things that are written.
Even if you had a photographic memory...that is way too much information to recall.
And if you are in the midst of an actual cat-first-meeting...it's not like you're going to remember it, anyhow.

In the first meeting...you have to spend way too much time....watching, and taking it in.
That's the point of the first meeting: ...To actually see what the cats will do.
You're supposed to enjoy it, too. And I think looking back, you will.
Unexpected things always take a little more time to take in, process, and respond to....that's totally normal.

Okay, sure...maybe the cats got a little more scared from the 'heys'...but it's totally what I would have done.

It's kind of really difficult to distract a cat while they are chasing, playing, rough-playing...and being super-focused.
This you'll learn with time, and practice...plus...you'll see what works and what doesn't.
If chasing/swatting is expected behavior, and we break it up if it seems negative, are we supposed to keep them separated for the rest of the night? Or only long enough to give them positives (food, toys, pets) before trying again?
I would base this on how the cats are acting "after the situation"....eg. are they still riled up? are they calm? are they tired? are you tired? etc.
Does it look like they want to play? Or are they acting all upset?

I wouldn't keep them separated, based on the above observations.
Plus, you want to see more interactions happen...in order to better be able to get them more comfortable.
Also, you'll be getting more used to what their play-style looks like.
What do we do now? Do we just wait another week, doing the same thing as before, and try again next week without the gate? Or could we try again sooner than that?
Try again as soon as you feel like it.
Nothing bad happened...and it sounds like it was very typical for new cat meetings...in which both cats have a lot of energy.
Should we block off access to the bottom of the couch? It's K's equivalent to T's house (where she goes when she's especially scared), so we felt we shouldn't limit her access to that space...but T can also go under, and T has been hanging out there a lot lately.
I would not block off access to anywhere...since the bottom of the couch has many exits...and even though you cannot observe them easily...it's still a space that you can easily see if you move the flap.
You said that they were not fighting under there...so more than likely they both just needed a dark place, to pause for a bit.
T has since finished emptying her treat ball and has come down to the bottom of the stairs a few times, which is normal. K woke up to look in T's direction but she stayed in her bed (still sleeping now).
It sounds like it went well, for the first time. :think:
Maybe I'm missing something....but besides the swatting, hissing and chasing....Was there any actual crying, yowling or fur-flying?

Also, it sounds like both cats are acting very normal. :bluepaw:
Both cats managed to separate well, and T had access running back up to her room, while K remained...so that seems good, too.
 

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Another update: They have both been really subdued. K has been sleeping and pouting, or pouting while sleeping, and T has been really, really quiet on the stairs.

It isn't yet 9 PM here though, so we'll see how they act starting around 10 PM.

I just gave them treats at the gate and K came right over. They seem to be kind of shy around each other now. T sort of put her paws up to invite K to play but K just hid behind the laundry detergent (but didn't walk away).
This sounds normal, too.
Good that K came right over to the gate for treats.

'sleeping and pouting, or pouting while sleeping'...what does that even look like? :blush: :lol: It's okay, I'll try to figure it out. :sleep2::hmmm: :dunno: :sleep::mad2:

Being shy seems like a good thing...at least they are not angry or upset.

(PS...Thanks so much for the photo, you added in the other post.
That photo really helps in understanding how the first meeting started.)
It went better than I thought it would. Honestly.
 
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acari

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First of all, THANK YOU for the reassurance. I needed it!!

Remember, K is a little food/treat obsessed...which can be both a good and slightly problematic issue.
In this case, it was entirely normal for K to swat at T...since K really does like her food, and does not want any other cat near her, while eating.
So T will learn this boundary from K,...and hopefully avoid it in the future.
Yes, at that time I thought the swatting was justified. T needed to respect boundaries there!
(It's above par...which I hope means really good in golf...since I never get golfing terms.)
I think, in golf in particular, above par is bad. But in regular life above par means good!
I wouldn't keep them separated, based on the above observations.
Plus, you want to see more interactions happen...in order to better be able to get them more comfortable.
Also, you'll be getting more used to what their play-style looks like.
Try again as soon as you feel like it.
Nothing bad happened...and it sounds like it was very typical for new cat meetings...in which both cats have a lot of energy.
Okay, we'll see what C calicosrspecial says too and go from there. Maybe tomorrow we'll try again?
And we'll keep this interaction in mind for how to act in the future.
I would not block off access to anywhere...since the bottom of the couch has many exits...and even though you cannot observe them easily...it's still a space that you can easily see if you move the flap.
You're right, the couch has a lot of space (for cats!). And if one really wanted to get away there isn't much room for the other to, say, pin them down or hold them or anything.
It sounds like it went well, for the first time. :think:
Maybe I'm missing something....but besides the swatting, hissing and chasing....Was there any actual crying, yowling or fur-flying?
No, none of those three things at all. I guess those would be the hallmarks of a real honest fight.
'sleeping and pouting, or pouting while sleeping'...what does that even look like? :blush: :lol: It's okay, I'll try to figure it out. :sleep2::hmmm: :dunno: :sleep::mad2:
I took a picture of her sleeping. I can tell she's pouting because she doesn't normally sleep in the scratcher, and when she's feeling some kinda way she puts her head down like that (unless she's stretched out in the sun, which is a different story).

IMG_20200201_202505.jpg

And then I also took a picture of her when she woke up and continued pouting, because...just look at her face!

IMG_20200201_202510.jpg

Anyway, thank you again for responding so quickly, you really made me feel better about this whole thing.
 

calicosrspecial

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So...:sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh: :sigh:

We put the gate blocking off the kitchen without any extra bracing, cardboard, etc.
We had their dinners ready and we let T out, and both cats were focused on their food.
Then, we slid the gate over to open it before we put the food down (the plan was to use the food as a distraction so they didn't run at each other).
K didn't care because she wanted her dinner, and T at first was wary of the gate moving, but then wanted to come over to K's side. So we put the food down right away as we didn't want T coming so close to K immediately.

View attachment 320560

They ate like this without issue.

T finished first while K was still licking at her plate, and T tried to walk over to K.
K swatted her immediately 3 - 4 times and hissed, then went back to licking her plate.
Here, we figured that K was just telling T to back off because she wasn't done eating, it felt acceptable.
T ran off, my partner went to check on her, said she seemed generally alright.
K finished licking her plate, then went to lick T's too.

T was roaming around the living room as she usually does, and K went to crouch under a table we had in the hall. We started doling out treats, which they both ate readily.
T was a bit jumpy about coming closer to K, which made sense given K's earlier swatting, but her tail was still up and she was trotting around to explore.
K was very watchful and seemed cautious, not sure what to do about T.

I kept giving treats to K, and T took the opportunity (while K was eating a treat) to jog past me and her to the kitchen area, past the gate.

K came out to watch T, then she got a few steps closer, and they made eye contact.
T seemed friendly but K suddenly ran to her and swatted (looked hard) 4 - 5 times in quick succession, and T fell over backwards showing her belly (not sure if fighting or submissive) before running away (we were also already saying "HEY" at K).

Unfortunately, K ran after T - it really didn't seem playful to us, and we couldn't distract since they were running...K didn't bother listening to us at all.

We went after them and saw that T went under the couch. K paused for half a second before going under after her.
There was about two or three seconds where we couldn't see or hear them (T might have made a tiny noise of some kind), then my partner lifted the flap covering the bottom of the couch, and T dashed out. Body language not great, but could have partially been from us loudly saying "HEY" to K - she can't know it's not directed at her). She ran up to the first landing of the stairs, I went to grab the gate, T then ran all the way up into her room and into her little house (where she goes when she is very scared).

K at this point is turkeying under the couch, looking worried and anxious.

I would note that T ran out from the left side of the couch and it looks like K stayed on the right - so I don't know if they were in physical contact when they were both under.

My partner went upstairs to talk to T and check to make sure she wasn't bleeding or anything in case K was using her claws (which are trimmed, just FYI). He reported that T seemed alright, just scared, no injuries.

I set up the gate back at the bottom of the stairs as usual and brought up T's dry food (she usually gets it after her wet).
We put most of her dry food into a treat ball using a funnel, and T came out easily while my partner was doing that - acting normal again after (she's playing with it right now, I can hear it as I type).

K stayed under the couch for 5-10 minutes, anxious, before coming out, walking over to the kitchen area.
Her body language seemed unhappy to me, which makes sense.
She went behind the curtain to the window/balcony door (a favorite hangout for both of them) for a while before making her way slowly to her pink bed, where she kneaded unhappily for a few seconds. She looks to be napping or sleeping now.

I don't know what to do but I feel like this went horribly. It could have been worse, obviously...but while we weren't expecting them to curl up with each other and snuggle, we didn't think K would go after T like that. All in all this no-gate meeting lasted only 5 minutes, including eating.
T sticks her paws out from under the gate now at the bottom of the steps all the time and K has never gone after them when T is relaxing. And the past few days it's been hit or miss with them playing/interacting when we set up the gate in the living room/kitchen, it seems like one will want to play and waits at the gate, but the other isn't interested, and then they switch.
All of that made me think that K wouldn't be violent when they first met but I guess not...?

I know both of you said to expect chasing and hissing but what do you think (I know it's hard to judge based just on my descriptions)?
Another note is that other than the first hissing I mentioned from K, I don't think she was making noise (like fighting noises).
My gauge of cat interactions isn't very good...

Sigh I've just gone back and reread what both of you told me to expect, and I didn't realize I'd forgotten it all because I was nervous about the meeting. You both warned me to be calm and that there would be things like chasing/swatting/hissing...I'm a horrible student.
So maybe we did the wrong thing by breaking it up so quickly and escalating our "HEY"s, which probably contributed to them being scared? Maybe when they were under the couch we should have tried to distract with treats or wand toys?

If chasing/swatting is expected behavior, and we break it up if it seems negative, are we supposed to keep them separated for the rest of the night? Or only long enough to give them positives (food, toys, pets) before trying again?

What do we do now? Do we just wait another week, doing the same thing as before, and try again next week without the gate? Or could we try again sooner than that?
Should we block off access to the bottom of the couch? It's K's equivalent to T's house (where she goes when she's especially scared), so we felt we shouldn't limit her access to that space...but T can also go under, and T has been hanging out there a lot lately.

T has since finished emptying her treat ball and has come down to the bottom of the stairs a few times, which is normal. K woke up to look in T's direction but she stayed in her bed (still sleeping now).

:bawling:
The first part with the picture is awesome!! EXACTLY what we wanted to see with them eating, focused on the food. Etc. FANTASTIC!!! This is what we want to encourage and get more of.

"K was very watchful and seemed cautious, not sure what to do about T." - Totally normal. At this point we try to make it as positive as possible. Distract to keep it positive.

"T was roaming around the living room as she usually does, and K went to crouch under a table we had in the hall. We started doling out treats, which they both ate readily. T was a bit jumpy about coming closer to K, which made sense given K's earlier swatting, but her tail was still up and she was trotting around to explore. K was very watchful and seemed cautious, not sure what to do about T." - This is great. No negatives which equal a positive. At this point personally I would have stopped the intro. To keep it on a positive. It is not the length of time it is the quality of time.

"I kept giving treats to K, and T took the opportunity (while K was eating a treat) to jog past me and her to the kitchen area, past the gate." - Good job on distracting. Now T jogging past is acting like prey so that can trigger a response from K. Good job on keeping her distracted. We want to keep T from acting like prey though.

"K came out to watch T, then she got a few steps closer, and they made eye contact. T seemed friendly but K suddenly ran to her and swatted (looked hard) 4 - 5 times in quick succession, and T fell over backwards showing her belly (not sure if fighting or submissive) before running away (we were also already saying "HEY" at K). Unfortunately, K ran after T - it really didn't seem playful to us, and we couldn't distract since they were running...K didn't bother listening to us at all." - Yep, I am not surprised. T acted like prey and the instincts kicked in. This is where experience comes in. Not pushing our luck on trying to get more time. It is about one step at a time. In other words, it takes 7 years to be a vet, it doesn't happen in a day. BUT it is normal, understandable, and I am not at all worried (I'll see what happens after this though). The fact they did so well at the beginning tells me they will get along. Not IF but WHEN.

"We went after them and saw that T went under the couch. K paused for half a second before going under after her.
There was about two or three seconds where we couldn't see or hear them (T might have made a tiny noise of some kind), then my partner lifted the flap covering the bottom of the couch, and T dashed out. Body language not great, but could have partially been from us loudly saying "HEY" to K - she can't know it's not directed at her). She ran up to the first landing of the stairs, I went to grab the gate, T then ran all the way up into her room and into her little house (where she goes when she is very scared). K at this point is turkeying under the couch, looking worried and anxious." - SO K did not chase T up the stairs? If so that is really positive. And the fact T was in her "safe house" AND nothing happened negatively from K is a HUGE positive.

"I would note that T ran out from the left side of the couch and it looks like K stayed on the right - so I don't know if they were in physical contact when they were both under." - Ok, this is not bad. It seems like K restrained herself. Which is very good.

"My partner went upstairs to talk to T and check to make sure she wasn't bleeding or anything in case K was using her claws (which are trimmed, just FYI). He reported that T seemed alright, just scared, no injuries." - Seemed ok is good. It is how fast they rebound which is important. AND that nothing more negative happens. At this point you want to reassure the cat (T in this case) and give treats or play etc. Something positive.

"I set up the gate back at the bottom of the stairs as usual and brought up T's dry food (she usually gets it after her wet).
We put most of her dry food into a treat ball using a funnel, and T came out easily while my partner was doing that - acting normal again after (she's playing with it right now, I can hear it as I type)." - GREAT!!! Fast rebound. So it lessens the negativity of the chase.

"K stayed under the couch for 5-10 minutes, anxious, before coming out, walking over to the kitchen area." - Understandable.

"Her body language seemed unhappy to me, which makes sense." - How so?

"She went behind the curtain to the window/balcony door (a favorite hangout for both of them) for a while before making her way slowly to her pink bed, where she kneaded unhappily for a few seconds. She looks to be napping or sleeping now." - That doesn't sound bad to me. I would at this point try to reassure, do something positive but it sounds like K was ok after this.

"I don't know what to do but I feel like this went horribly." - TOTALLY disagree. I think this actually went pretty well and told us a lot. K does not want to eliminate T, doesn't seem to fear her much. Didn't escalate which could have easily happened (K showed restraint). And they rebounded fairly quickly. Overall, I think it went pretty well (and MUCH better than I would have though 10 days ago).

"All of that made me think that K wouldn't be violent when they first met but I guess not...?" - I didn't see it but I wouldn't say K was violent. K could have been but chose not to hurt T. She respected T. I think that is very telling about their relationship.

"You both warned me to be calm and that there would be things like chasing/swatting/hissing...I'm a horrible student." - Nope, you are a great student. It is REALLY hard to be calm. I still struggle with it on tougher intros. I don't think your emotions had any negative impact. T ran past K and acted like prey, that was the problem.

"So maybe we did the wrong thing by breaking it up so quickly and escalating our "HEY"s, which probably contributed to them being scared? Maybe when they were under the couch we should have tried to distract with treats or wand toys?" - So there is a lot here. Personally I try to avoid it from happening and needing to break it up. Now, that is ideal and doesn't happen every time. "Hey" should be ok, Using toys is a very good ideal (but fails often). Using cardboard or a pillow can work. BUT it sounds like under the couch was not that bad and it broke up without more negativity so it actually worked pretty well in my opinion. It really is more art than science.

"If chasing/swatting is expected behavior, and we break it up if it seems negative, are we supposed to keep them separated for the rest of the night?" Or only long enough to give them positives (food, toys, pets) before trying again?" - I personally do but remember I tend to move more cautiously. I want them to be back to normal and want to feel like I am confident that they will have a good encounter the next time. So I would wait to at least today and see how they are acting. If abnormal then hold off on trying again, if they seem pretty good then try again and keep it short and max positive as possible.

"What do we do now? Do we just wait another week, doing the same thing as before, and try again next week without the gate? Or could we try again sooner than that?" - So I would wait to at least today and see how they are acting. If abnormal then hold off on trying again, if they seem pretty good then try again and keep it short and max positive as possible.

"Should we block off access to the bottom of the couch? It's K's equivalent to T's house (where she goes when she's especially scared), so we felt we shouldn't limit her access to that space...but T can also go under, and T has been hanging out there a lot lately." - Good question. Typically I do block that off but in this case I think no, I would leave it open.Since it doesn't seem like it escalated the situation and may have de-escalated the situation. SO it may actually have been a positive distraction though that may have been a fluke. We'll see.

"T has since finished emptying her treat ball and has come down to the bottom of the stairs a few times, which is normal. K woke up to look in T's direction but she stayed in her bed (still sleeping now)." - VERY positive. I like to hear this. Really encouraging.

"They have both been really subdued. K has been sleeping and pouting, or pouting while sleeping, and T has been really, really quiet on the stairs." - Sounds pretty good actually. Watch the body language. How they walk, any changes.

"I just gave them treats at the gate and K came right over." - AWESOME!!!

" They seem to be kind of shy around each other now. T sort of put her paws up to invite K to play but K just hid behind the laundry detergent (but didn't walk away)." - Understandable. That tells me that K does not mean harm to T which is a big positive. I am actually VERY encouraged to read this.

On the pictures - I don't know, that doesn't look like a traumatized cat. It may be different behavior BUT the other behavior you mention is really positive. I am sure it was emotionally draining.

Overall, I would call this a success. Was it prefect? Of course not but they rarely are. Was it better than expectations? Absolutely. Am I more positive today than I ever was? YES!!!

Just keep building positives, making every encounter as positive as possible, minimizing negatives, reassure and make positive associations.

Today I would feed like you did but end it as that. Let them see they have access to each other but just end it.

They are going to be fine. I did not see anything I am really worried about.
 

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This is great. No negatives which equal a positive. At this point personally I would have stopped the intro. To keep it on a positive. It is not the length of time it is the quality of time.
C calicosrspecial ....Why would you end the first meeting so soon?
I know you said...'to keep it positive'....but by ending it this soon, ...are you really getting an accurate picture on how both cats interact.?
Today I would feed like you did but end it as that. Let them see they have access to each other but just end it.
My worry is that K is too food motivated/food obsessed...and has shown to be aggressive around food and treats...when T is around.
I'm really not sure how you'd lessen this instinct in her? without actual interactions happening?

Perhaps feeding and then closing the gate would work, but on the other hand, ...if T approaches and gets swatted at again,....and then the gate is closed...this would look more like ending on a negative. Would it not?

If you end it too soon, then don't you run the risk of again...telling the cats that whatever they do next...will cause the gate to be closed?
I don't know. I am a bit confused here...with the 'ending so soon'?
 

calicosrspecial

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I tend to take it very incrementally. So I take baby steps as my theory is to max positives and min negatives. And then slowly expand trying to continue to do that. So I have tests. First test is "will they focus on food and not on each other". Pass. Then "How do they react after eating". Then for how long. Etc. I am a multiple step person since I am so focused on avoiding negatives. It is just my style/process.

"My worry is that K is too food motivated/food obsessed...and has shown to be aggressive around food and treats." - I hear you but K really showed me that e can use that obsession as a positive. Maybe I missed something so please correct me if I am wrong but I didn't see this as an issue in this interaction at all which is great. Her obsession allowed them to have a positive encounter.

"Perhaps feeding and then closing the gate would work, but on the other hand, ...if T approaches and gets swatted at again,....and then the gate is closed...this would look more like ending on a negative. Would it not?" - I would close the gate and then use distraction - play to try to avoid that situation. Though if it happened I am not sure it would be the end of the world. Maybe a touch negative but not a big deal. We just try to wear them down where they are like "yeah, that cat is there but so many times nothing bad really happened so I don't think anything will". Just takes repetition in my mind.

"If you end it too soon, then don't you run the risk of again...telling the cats that whatever they do next...will cause the gate to be closed?
I don't know. I am a bit confused here...with the 'ending so soon'?" - No because we make it positive after the gate is closed. So play or attention/love. No negative encounters. We leave their interaction on a positive and then close the gate and continue the positives. So the next time they think "last time was only positive so this time should be to". It is just my style/process. Whatever works is the right way. I tend to avoid negatives because unwinding negatives is a bit more of a challenge. Now, this intro went really well so I am not suggesting there is a lot of risk here but in a lot of intros the first meeting does not go this well.

It really is more art than science. And it is what the person doing the intro is most comfortable and believes in. If I let them at it it is outside of my style and I would probably make it worse since it is out of my comfort zone. Others may be ok with it. So I think it really is more art than science and depends on what the person doing it feels most comfortable with. I think developing your own style and believing in it is most important (of course as long as the result is positive). And reading the cats, understanding them.

My weakness is I probably move too cautiously. It works in the end but takes more time I am guessing most of the time. The biggest mistake I see is people move too quickly (generically) so I tend to be more cautious. This is not in Acari's situation but in general. I guess i have had to clean up to many " "messes" so I tend to avoid getting into those (if possible) in the first place.

I would say, just think about all the ways and develop your own style/process. You are smart, you will master it.

Hopefully that kind of addresses the questions (rightly or wrongly). I think it is right, I hope it is right but it could be wrong. Staying humble and wanting to learn is the best way forward.

The right way is the way that works and the wrong way is the one that doesn't. :D
 
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First of all, THANK YOU for the reassurance. I needed it!!
Not a problem. :)
And I hope that after you've read calicosrspecial's post...that you are doubly assured that the first meeting was good. 🙂

(Yesterday, I realized it was saturday...and was so excited about K and T meeting, too. Then I realized that I had said that you'd probably be too tired, and post on sunday, instead. Me and my big mouth. :footinmouth: I was like "dam, I have to wait another day". :clover:
So I was glad you posted. Not glad that you were disappointed, but still glad that the cat-meeting went okay. It sounded like the humans also did a lot of running around, there, too. ...Which again is totally normal, when introducing cats.) :biggrin:
Yes, at that time I thought the swatting was justified. T needed to respect boundaries there!
Yes, and if it does become a continuous problem, ...then we could all figure out ways to work on it.
But for now, let's just see how it goes.
I think, in golf in particular, above par is bad. But in regular life above par means good!
(Oh, no. Golf terms are so confusing. :stars: Very relaxing sport to watch...never understand what all the bogeys, eagles, birdies mean.
I've got to go and look them up.)
I did mean the regular life terminology.:thumbsup:
(But sunday after the superbowl...I might throw out more football terms...to further confuse the person I'm talking with (you).)
I took a picture of her sleeping. I can tell she's pouting because she doesn't normally sleep in the scratcher, and when she's feeling some kinda way she puts her head down like that (unless she's stretched out in the sun, which is a different story).

IMG_20200201_202505.jpg


And then I also took a picture of her when she woke up and continued pouting, because...just look at her face!

IMG_20200201_202510.jpg


Anyway, thank you again for responding so quickly, you really made me feel better about this whole thing.
Okay, granted she does look a little pouty in the second photo.:lol: And her forehead looks slightly crinkled.
Maybe the cat scratcher just feels good to sleep in because it has all her scent on it...(maybe some left over catnip, too.)
Plus that cardboard must feel like a massager underneath, with all those honeycomb/corrugated sheets.

I forgot to ask yesterday....Did K's swatting look more like video 6....or video 14?
 

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I tend to take it very incrementally. So I take baby steps as my theory is to max positives and min negatives. And then slowly expand trying to continue to do that. So I have tests. First test is "will they focus on food and not on each other". Pass. Then "How do they react after eating". Then for how long. Etc. I am a multiple step person since I am so focused on avoiding negatives. It is just my style/process.
Thank you, C calicosrspecial . This really helps me understand it more.
"My worry is that K is too food motivated/food obsessed...and has shown to be aggressive around food and treats." - I hear you but K really showed me that e can use that obsession as a positive. Maybe I missed something so please correct me if I am wrong but I didn't see this as an issue in this interaction at all which is great. Her obsession allowed them to have a positive encounter.
No you are right.
I suppose it was how I looked at it, in thinking that, "because K originally swatted at T, over the food bowl"...that this somehow carried over into her later 'interaction' with T.
I think my mistake is in thinking that the 'original swatting' is somehow 'connected to the later running, swatting and chasing'.
"If you end it too soon, then don't you run the risk of again...telling the cats that whatever they do next...will cause the gate to be closed?
I don't know. I am a bit confused here...with the 'ending so soon'?" - No because we make it positive after the gate is closed. So play or attention/love. No negative encounters. We leave their interaction on a positive and then close the gate and continue the positives. So the next time they think "last time was only positive so this time should be to". It is just my style/process. Whatever works is the right way. I tend to avoid negatives because unwinding negatives is a bit more of a challenge. Now, this intro went really well so I am not suggesting there is a lot of risk here but in a lot of intros the first meeting does not go this well.
Ah, okay. That makes sense. You're trying to constantly build upon positives.
One positive, to another positive, and so on.
And avoid creating negatives....since it takes more effort to undo/unwind them.
It really is more art than science. And it is what the person doing the intro is most comfortable and believes in. If I let them at it it is outside of my style and I would probably make it worse since it is out of my comfort zone. Others may be ok with it. So I think it really is more art than science and depends on what the person doing it feels most comfortable with. I think developing your own style and believing in it is most important (of course as long as the result is positive). And reading the cats, understanding them.
That is very true.
"as long as the result is positive" and "reading the cats, understanding them."
My weakness is I probably move too cautiously. It works in the end but takes more time I am guessing most of the time. The biggest mistake I see is people move too quickly (generically) so I tend to be more cautious. This is not in Acari's situation but in general. I guess i have had to clean up to many " "messes" so I tend to avoid getting into those (if possible) in the first place.
I wouldn't say that is a weakness...but rather a strength!

(I guess my problem is my lack of patience, then. I have patience to a point, but then 'throw it out the window'.)
Staying humble and wanting to learn is the best way forward.
Thank you tremendously, C calicosrspecial .
I've learned so much from you, being on acari's thread..(and reading some of your other posts)...that no amount of words can express,... my gratitude for what you write. (I know it helps me in other threads, and life in general, too.):)

There was one last question...but I know your time is limited, and valuable...so only answer when you have time to.
Now T jogging past is acting like prey so that can trigger a response from K. Good job on keeping her distracted. We want to keep T from acting like prey though.
I'm not sure how you could prevent a cat from running? ...and acting like prey?

I just cannot see it being possible to prevent a cat from running, and being chased. :dunno:

I can understand trying to lessen the instinct in the other cat who is doing the chasing, ...in being less aggressive,...but not in the actual cat 'who is doing the running'. :headscratch:
 
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acari

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C calicosrspecial Thank you too for your reassurance!! I really appreciate it.
The first part with the picture is awesome!! EXACTLY what we wanted to see with them eating, focused on the food. Etc. FANTASTIC!!! This is what we want to encourage and get more of.
Okay, I thought it was good but didn't give it enough credit, I think. If they have access to each other but would rather eat, it's a good thing (have to keep reminding myself).
At this point personally I would have stopped the intro. To keep it on a positive. It is not the length of time it is the quality of time.
Okay, I'll keep this in mind - if anything heading in a negative direction happens we'll separate them with the gate (if possible) and distract/make positive.
Now T jogging past is acting like prey so that can trigger a response from K. Good job on keeping her distracted. We want to keep T from acting like prey though.
The thing about T being downstairs is that I don't think she walks anywhere. She's excited about being in a big open space (she doesn't get that normally). She's always trotting, jogging, or madly dashing around.
SO K did not chase T up the stairs? If so that is really positive. And the fact T was in her "safe house" AND nothing happened negatively from K is a HUGE positive.
Yes, K did not chase T.
With your feedback now, I'm wondering if after the chase, K didn't go under to go after T, but rather to her "safe space" - and T just already happened to be under there too.
I want them to be back to normal and want to feel like I am confident that they will have a good encounter the next time. So I would wait to at least today and see how they are acting. If abnormal then hold off on trying again, if they seem pretty good then try again and keep it short and max positive as possible.
Yes, we didn't try again...too emotionally draining.
Besides - I think T was SUPER TIRED and sleepy. I'm not sure she slept very much yesterday. We'll see how she acts today.
Overall, I would call this a success. Was it prefect? Of course not but they rarely are. Was it better than expectations? Absolutely. Am I more positive today than I ever was? YES!!!
That's so good to hear!! Such a relief.
(Oh, no. Golf terms are so confusing. :stars: Very relaxing sport to watch...never understand what all the bogeys, eagles, birdies mean.
I've got to go and look them up.)
cat nap cat nap I don't even know golf well enough to know those words are associated with it!! :lol:
Okay, granted she does look a little pouty in the second photo.:lol: And her forehead looks slightly crinkled.
It's funny how human her expressions can get (or cats in general). I wasn't aware cats could crinkle their foreheads like that.
I think she was normal this morning in regards to food but has gone back to being sleepy/slightly pouty. Not as much as yesterday night though.
I forgot to ask yesterday....Did K's swatting look more like video 6....or video 14?
The first swatting, for food/boundaries, I would say was between 6 and 14. It was quick but very much a "I'm eating, here! Don't bother me again." And T reacted like, "Oops, I shouldn't have bothered you. Bye!"

The second swatting was definitely more like video 6. Only the gate wasn't in the way.

I guess T wasn't making any ouchy sounds so no claws out from K...I'll take it.
 

calicosrspecial

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"If they have access to each other but would rather eat, it's a good thing (have to keep reminding myself)." - Anytime there is no negativity it is positive. If they are enjoying something and making a positive association it is more positive.

" if anything heading in a negative direction happens we'll separate them with the gate (if possible) and distract/make positive." - Try distraction if it is going negative. If it is positive and you want to end it put the gate up then make it positive for them after that.

"The thing about T being downstairs is that I don't think she walks anywhere. She's excited about being in a big open space (she doesn't get that normally). She's always trotting, jogging, or madly dashing around." - Yes and that is what can set off K. SO distracting K during that is really important to try to curb the instinct of chasing prey until T settles down a bit.

"Yes, K did not chase T." - GREAT, very positive.

"I'm wondering if after the chase, K didn't go under to go after T, but rather to her "safe space" - and T just already happened to be under there too." - Possibly. I would have to have seen it. Either way it was a good result. It didn't result in anything that negative.

"Yes, we didn't try again...too emotionally draining." - I know. But that is for the best. Just to get everyone stabilized and in a more positive mindset.

"That's so good to hear!! Such a relief." - Yes, I am really happy with where they are.

"T wasn't making any ouchy sounds so no claws out from K." - This is REALLY positive, it shows restraint. K didn't want to hurt T. A really big positive. It is things like this that tells us so much.

Catnap -

"I suppose it was how I looked at it, in thinking that, "because K originally swatted at T, over the food bowl"...that this somehow carried over into her later 'interaction' with T. I think my mistake is in thinking that the 'original swatting' is somehow 'connected to the later running, swatting and chasing'." - No, not mistake. It is so nuanced, that is what makes it difficult. It would have been much different if it was really food aggression. And I think they were just 2 separate instances. It is really nuanced. Of course, I can be wrong, I was not there and could have an inaccurate picture in my mind. But judging by how they acted after I think it is pretty accurate.

"You're trying to constantly build upon positives. One positive, to another positive, and so on. And avoid creating negatives....since it takes more effort to undo/unwind them." - Exactly, and as time passes tests will reveal more. It is really like testing one chapter at a time rather than 1 big final exam on the whole book.

"I wouldn't say that is a weakness...but rather a strength!" - Not sure. I think about it a lot but luckily I tend to have the buy in from the family so that helps a lot. But if a family is getting frustrated at the pace then................. Luckily I don;t have to deal with that much.

"(I guess my problem is my lack of patience, then. I have patience to a point, but then 'throw it out the window'.)" - Everyone has that. Being very confident of success will definitely help with patience. A few weeks can save months,

You are very welcome. I am so glad to try to help the next generation to take over.

"I'm not sure how you could prevent a cat from running? ...and acting like prey?" - This is the challenge. Confidence is a BIG help so building confidence is VERY important because they will be less likely to run (when chased) and that confident body language will hold the other at bay to some degree. And the cat that would chase with more confidence might just be more accepting. A confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked. Distraction is really important. Also, having them a little tired, a little full helps. Some cats like to instigate with running (one of my girls), some LOVE to be chased (it is a game) but in intros it makes it difficult. So distraction is the "go to" for me. And being really calm, confident, loving, to just get a cat in a more subdued mode. It is hard and that is a big reason why I tend to be more slow and cautious so the other cat (the one that isn't running) will be more accepting and not view it (potentially) as a threat (though as prey it still could trigger). So if the resident cat just knows the other cat is always running and acting like prey they might be more inclined to give the cat a pass. I hope that kind of makes sense. All this is all by feel (art). With experience you will feel what is right and what works etc.

Hope that helps a little.
 
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acari

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Okay so we've hit a blip. They were both still a little subdued today, more quiet, but that happens sometimes. T still played plenty early in the day and K still begged for food, so usual behavior.

But we thought we might try the same thing as last night again, and K ate her food just fine...but T didn't want to come to her plate at all, she seemed incredibly wary of going closer to K.
We moved her plate to the stair where she normally eats when the gate is up, and she ate a few bites, then my partner tried to move the plate one step down. T avoided the plate (but she really wanted to eat her food) for a while, then finally went to eat a few quick bites before running off/running around.

K finished her food and sat off to the side, and T still didn't want to eat. So at this point we figure that a meeting isn't going to happen, because T is way too scared of...whatever, so we set up the cardboard and table (basically setting up gate-time with K in the kitchen).

T eventually came down again to eat her food and she cleaned her plate fine.

We'll see if they interact at the gate at all tonight but it seems like we've gone a bit backwards in terms of T's confidence, so we have to work on that again before trying another face-to-face.
 

calicosrspecial

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Not too worry, we can handle this.

And it sounds like K was really well behaved which is fantastic. The resident (existing) cat is the most challenging as it is their territory being "invaded" so the fact K seems to have been well behaved is a great sign.

Yes, T was lacking confidence a little but will be easily overcome. Keep playing with T and keep trying to make a positive association at the gate. The fact she did come down and cleaned her plate is a good sign.

It doesn't sound like you are worried so you are exactly right. You grasped the confidence issue in T which is a great sign in your knowledge. I am not at all worried. Just work on building T's confidence and make those positive associations/encounters. We'll get there.

I am actually really encouraged with how well K is doing.
 
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acari

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Update: We decided to wait until they were playing together at the gate again before trying a meeting without the gate. They sort of did a very slow, unsure, gentle round of it yesterday but we didn't feel like it was good enough.

Tonight, we captured this:
Okay, I'm having some trouble downloading the video I took so I can't upload it for you (I'll do it as soon as I can). But basically it was a minute of very gentle playing from the two of them, very encouraging. The purpose was just to show why we thought we could try another face-to-face.

So we thought, hey, good enough now! Because K has been seemingly waiting at the gate to play with T, and T was in a very playful mood.

I would note that the past few days (since the last meeting), T has been a bit jumpier than usual. And wary of the downstairs area in general, though she still wants to explore and play.

We distracted the two of them with treats and moved the gate over so that it was open, and both of them didn't notice for a little bit, because they were sniffing around in case there were more treats.
My partner and I talked at each other as if nothing unusual were happening.

T made a few motions like she wanted to go past where the gate was, and then decided to do it, but I guess she made the mistake of jogging/running near K. The thing about it is that T stopped near K, (all of this happened very fast so I'm not sure) but it seemed like she was checking for K's reaction.
K had a split second during T's pause where it really seemed like she was deciding whether to go after T or not - and she decided to do so, even though the treat jar was open and near her.
T ran full-tilt back up the stairs, and K followed, also at high speed.

Given our mistake last time of being too excited/loud, my partner and I had vowed to be calm and chill this time - but this meant that we were both slow to get up off the floor and follow them up the stairs, and we didn't have eyes on them.

By the time we got up the stairs (this is all happening in like, five seconds total), we heard a weird screaming sound. I don't know how else to describe it...imagine like a hawk screeching? It sounded like a bird. We have no idea who it came from or what might have caused it or if they were in contact and who was touching who.
We said "hey!" but not too loudly, (we were still processing that K had chased, that there was a weird sound), but by the time we'd gotten around the first corner of the stairs K was already walking back down. She wasn't confident and sure but she wasn't panicked and running, either.

She went right over to the little table (our "coffee table" but not really) in the living room and turkeyed underneath it.

I put the gate back in place and my partner stayed behind to check on T (if you're sensing a pattern, K is more "my" cat and T is more "his" cat).

I talked to K and she allowed me to pet/comfort her, though she kept turning her head back to check for T at the gate. It didn't seem aggressive but...just on the lookout.
It honestly seems like K feels bad about whatever might have happened with T. She's acting down and depressed, a bit guilty. She's still under the table now as I type but she's lying down now. I'll go talk to her some more after I post this.

My partner reported that T was fine, no injuries that he could tell, just that she was a bit scared. She did not run all the way into her house, which is what I would have expected, but she was lying down in places across the room from him. When she is scared/nervous I think she has a habit of lying down farther away, then getting up to lie down somewhere else (she did this a lot when she first arrived, too).
Anyway, my partner says that she was otherwise alright, and she soon was okay enough to leave the room and go down the stairs...but only to the first landing, and not all the way to the bottom.

She hasn't come back to the bottom at all but has been rolling around up at the landing, so she's fine...but also not fine. I think she's sleeping or dozing on the landing now.

K is now pouting under the table (head down on the floor like the photo I showed previously). It really seems like she feels bad about it...or bad about something...

Our plan is to wait until they are playing at the gate again before opening it, and rinsing and repeating, unless you guys have other ideas or think that this isn't a good plan.
I'm not really sure what else we could do? T is naturally so jumpy and prey-like, especially as she doesn't get a lot of time to roam the downstairs. The downstairs is really "K's territory" even though T shares half of it for at least an hour a day (which isn't much, I know, but it's sort of the best we can do).

Do you think it's possible that T is triggering K's natural predator instincts with her running/scared behavior, and K can't control whether she acts on the instinct?

I guess I took too long to type the post, K has moved to her heated box now and is curled up in there. I'll still go talk to her.
 
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