Cat introduction turned re-introduction and now we are regressing, things are getting worse

[tarasgirl06]

Also since we found Fred at five weeks old. He misses some cat queues. So he has now associated hissing with playing. Little weirdo.

also I added some pics of they were before something happend. We still have no idea what happened. But it doesn’t really matter. Excuse my messy house lol.

Fred and Wilma really are gorgeous! and the play sessions are an excellent way to give them more time together to expend energy and adapt to the idea that you love them both equally. Yeah, five weeks is really young to be separated from his mom and family - experts say not to adopt kittens out until they are at least 8 weeks, prefereably closer to 12 weeks, for them to receive education and socialization from their mom and family. I think my Fluff was separated early, too, because he is under-socialized and has a lot of traits that aren't "well behaved." But time, love, and patience are always best, and Fluff knows he's loved 100%, unconditionally.

 

[Alldara]

That's wonderful! I do find sitting in between them adds extra security and is helpful So that makes sense!

I wouldnt worry about the hissing. All 3 of mine hiss at toys.

 

[MariaMed]

Thanks guys.

Today there was a butt sniff. Wilma was growling while doing it and no way fred could return the favor, but I al pretty sure that is just a ‘Don’t you dare I’m in charge here’ thing.

Signs are showing we’re getting somewhere at last.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Thanks guys.

Today there was a butt sniff. Wilma was growling while doing it and no way fred could return the favor, but I al pretty sure that is just a ‘Don’t you dare I’m in charge here’ thing.

Signs are showing we’re getting somewhere at last.

Yes, you are! They do that normally, by the way, to get each other's scents; it's in no way hostile.

 

[MariaMed]

Today we played and fed them both about a meter away from each other without the leasg. Wilma was fine. And was eating while only taking a peak at fred. Fred was looking over his shoulder a bit more, but he is so food focused it wasn’t an issue.
Then the doorbell rang. Both cats scrambled. And when they came back to the food, wilma was very vocal. Growling while sitting, while cleaning herself, while playing, you get the picture. She did not however moved upstairs. Where she could go quite easily. After eating fred just cleaned himself, played a bit with me. Wilma just sat in the door post(? How do you call that?) observing him. And growling sometimes. However, she didn’t rush him. He left her be, with some help from me. And exposure must be the road to success.

 

[Alldara]

Sounds ljwk the doorbell just made them a bit extra nervous. Hopefully tomorrow will be less growling again.

 

[MariaMed]

Today I decided to watch some work presentations in a doorway. With a bit of an extra barrier. Fred was in a room, wilma in the rest of the house. He wanted to get out badly the first hour . She came up to play observed a bit and went downstairs. Growling while doing so. But this door opening is next to the stairs so it can’t be helped. After a while he went to watch the birds through the window. I did call wilma upstairs once or twice considering I wanted her to be exposed. Definitely not there yet. But at least I’m not without hope.

 

[MariaMed]

Interesting update today. We have big sliding doors into our back garden and while Wilma is allowed out, she never does. I am not sure why but it scares her I think. Fred however will go out. (He escaped a few too many times to keep him an indoor cat)

Anyway, wilma was in the room when I let him out. Fred wasn’t feeling it today so he hoovered by the door a little. Wilma watched him like a hawk. And when he saw her, he came up to the glass ‘ooo a friend!’ Sniff sniff. It is a closed glass door so I’m not sure the sniffing was useful or not. But that is beside the point. Wilma poofed up like nobody’s business. No growling or hissing but panting and definitely agitated. Fred didn’t react to it at all.

I didn’t want him to have a negative reaction to the door, so I scooted Wilma over a meter behind me and fred followed her instead of walking in (I opened the door a little and was in between them if he entered, it is hard to explain but unless either of them could go through me there was no access to one other if he decided to go in). Anyway she got less bothered by his presence and I called him in and put him in another room (after praise).

I let Wilma run around with the happy zoomies after that. (I did not put him away when she was still puffed up or showing signs of aggression towards him) she was extremely cuddly and purring after that.

I am not sure whether this was good or bad. But it was certainly interesting.

One time I walked him outside on a leash, which she does not enjoy, and she saw us leaving out of the front door. My partner (who stayed with her) said she was very confused and squeeky about it.

Edit: Also I wanted to say that even though all these updates might not look like we are improving on the situation, we are getting somewhere. Fred is way less eager to rush at Wilma, back offs more when she hisses and Wilma doesn't react to his smell at all anymore. Not negatively not positively. She is far calmer then she was months ago. Even if there is a F* up from our end (read: we let her rush him, hiss and swat at him) she doesn't take it out on us anymore. She just walks away and is relaxed mere minutes after an event. A few months ago that took hours sometimes even a full nights sleep. Fred is still his happy little self. So even though it is going at a snails pace. There is progress. Just in case anyone else finds this thread and thinks it looks hopeless in their case.

Next I'm going to try to see if putting a harness on Wilma (she is used to it) without a leash for her will help with the agitation. Could help, could make it worse, only one way to find out. Fred will wear his as well. And I will in no means leave them unattended. And I might try again with a visual barrier. Problem is that Fred is such a jail breaker and I don't really want to lock Wilma up since she gets stressed by that as well. And stress+stress will probably not equal happy cats. However, I am just trying to see what works best. So far, Fred on a harness with and without leash works best with me siting on the floor.

Also we have a very big camper and Wilma loves it. We are starting to get Fred accustomed to it as well. Especially the driving part is very scary for him. But maybe once he is calm in the camper van we can try there too. Since she is a different cat in there, overall she is friendlier in the camper, also to other humans. So it might work. But that is a long way off. Fred is much to scared while driving for us to try that now.

 

[MariaMed]

Alldara tarasgirl06

so today I did something everyone says you shouldn’t do. I let them stare at each other. I put both of them on the harness. That way they are at least a little restricted. Fred is less likely to be too energetic and Wilma will not straight up run and smack him.

wilma was by the glass sliding doors fred was 2m away from her. I was next to fred to catch him in case she was scared and wanted an out.

she was growling and everything. I just started talking to her while sitting very still and blinking at her/looking away. About how he just wants to play, is at an age that he will challenge her a little etc. And it worked! Not in a miracle all is well way. But after a while she started blinking and just behaving more relaxed. Blinking a bit also at him, and not being so fixated. The growling stopped and she looked outside (a small amount of time but still). She just got more relaxed. And so did he. He is soooo eager. After 15 min he walked away, jumped on the sofa, jumped behind me to lay down. She looked very unsure of the situation. I just continued talking. And after 10 more minutes she walked over to the kitchen (other side of the room) and out the door. I did stop Fred from following her. But tbh just being able to look at each other seemed to work to help them relax a bit more around each other. I did look for signs of puffing up (fred sometimes will do that) or signs she will strike but in this instance it was just growling.
I added two pictures and I have a video. Not sure if I made it at the right time. But trust me she relaxed. I’ll check if I can upload it tomorrow.

don’t be weirded out by my talking and the harp music if i upload it. No idea of it is placebo, but I’m in the everything can potentially help phase

 

[Alldara]

Well it was not usual but occasionally when an owner does something on instinct, it works for their cats and that's what happened for you! It can ge important for an older cat to have time to observe a new addition. It can be hard to explain the difference in cat body language between observing or staring.

Keep us updated moving forward.

 

[MariaMed]

So I uploaded the video:
It is 13 secs only of wilma. - YouTube

this was the day before yesterday when they were staring at each other. She is wearing the harness (which is black) and her tail is outstretched. Kinda hard to tell with this light.

Today we tried again with playing and letting them stare a bit. To be fair, Fred is really starting to be a bit more distant with her. She will angrily chase him if she gets the chance but to him it is one big play. She swatted twice at him today, with claws but never hit him in the slightest. Neither of them puffed up, she did draw her ears back one time. To be fair Wilma probably also lacks socialisation since they are both rescues from a way too young age.

(I am trying not to let it get to swatting obviously. But sometimes they are just too quick….)

I did notice today while playing that he is very tense when she is around. So wilma is definitely getting more relaxed, he needs more time? Something elseI’m not sure yet. On the harness he is more mellow but has tension. Of the harness he wants to butt wiggle jump her and is energy level 10. For example, when she is nearby, no way I can get a purr out of him (even if he is laying down) and he is a purring machine.

So while Wilma is doing great, I’ll have to think on something that will also help him relax around her. We played until he was panting so we HAD to stop. But that didn’t do the trick. I am going to continue letting them near each other with the harness on. I think that is for the best for now. A little less energy all round.

Separated them afterwards and both were happy little clams within minutes. Also group scent is doing something (I think) and Wilma does not respond to his scent at all anymore. We brushed them yesterday and today to check for fleas (none found) and she was completely fine with it. So all in all happy, but still need to think a little more

edit: unfortunately a barrier isn’t really a good option. Either one will yowl to be with me and that makes them both more tense. Also fred will be determined to get to me no matter what. Pet gates? Climbed em. Plastic? Will paw and headbutt so hard Wilma and I freaked out. When they are not near each other, neither of them is very clingly. I do not want to leave them unsupervised. Or do you think I should do that?