Cat Introduction .... Failure?

[RocketPuppy97]

So... I got no new video for you today, unfortunatly, because my phone was dead.
But, I had them together for nearly 50 minutes today! At one point they were licking eachothers mouth? Nose? I don't really know, but it was cute, then Monty pawed at Cosmo gently and walked away, just for a short moment, but it counts!

I had to get them off eachother sometimes, but it wasn't as rough as yesterday. Then I stroked Monty, put him down again and it was fine and the continued playing.
They were also laying down (Cosmo on a cupboard and Monty on the ground) and they just layed there for a minute, not doing anything, the weren't even staring at each other.
Apart from that, they were laying down for short moments, cleaning themselfs and then back to play.

 

[calicosrspecial]

(on the play and action not on your phone dying).

WOW!! GREAT job!!! Licking each other???? Monty paws at him (to initiate play) and then walks away.

They are boys, they like to play. GREAT job on breaking it up, letting Monty know it is ok (getting him to decompress) and the proof that you did fantastically is that they then went back to play. Fast "rebound" though I am not sure anything really happened to cause a "rebound" but the reversion back to normal quickly is GREAT!!

Then we get them chilling together (even for a minute). Again, that is a sign we are getting there. Or I guess really pretty much there. They can do it. They are young so they can't resist forever but they show us it is not existential in their eyes. And not staring, not focusing on each other. I can't emphasize how POSITIVE and GREAT this is.

I LOVE that they pause (again proof of their trust, positive relationship), groom, then go back to play. If they really had "issues" they would not do that.

So overall, I am ecstatic about how great this is and how great the progress is and it tells me that the last video where they got a bit rough was just that (rough play and there was no intent to hurt). AWESOME!!

GREAT JOB!!!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

So, just a little update. I was out of town yesterday so my bf was at home and he played with them with one toy for 20 minutes and they were acting great.

Today, I had the sudden idea why not open the door and have Monty around too while preparing dinner for them? Cosmo was spooked by a few minor noises, but nothing Monty did, he was just not familiar with this new situation.
They acted great. No negativity what so ever. Eating was good too. After that, we played a little bit with them. My bf started the play with shooting a few nerfgun arrows across the hallway, the cats just love hunting those, Cosmo especially. So after a while Monty got bored so I started to play with him with a wand toy, while that was happening, Cosmo was carring around one of the arrows and he threw it inside a box with holes (specially prepared for them to get toys and treats out) and started entertaining himself. I was baffled, he's such a smart kitty. After the arrows became boring and the wand toy became boring, it was time for a one on one play between them. I had to stop my bf a few times, so he would not break up their play to early, I teached him how much is too much. They seemed to have fun and Monty was laying down beside the coffeetable a lot when Cosmo was under there, he even respected Cosmo coming out from under ther and playing with a nerfgun arrow, without interrupting him. They got a bit too rough like 2-3 times in a timespan of 30 or 40 minutes. At the very end we had to seperate them because Monty ran after Cosmo into the hallway and that spooked him quite a bit, so he wasn't happy about the fact that Monty tackled him to the ground, he was staring to his and make a few definsive noises. They clamed down after that fairly quickly, so it wasn't that bad.
So we just have to get them to chill a little more, then it's perfect haha. That's gonna afford alot of patience on my part again haha.

 

[calicosrspecial]

AWESOME!!

That sounds great on a few different levels.

Your bf played with them when you were not around and they did well. Then today Monty out with dinner being prepared. EXACTLY what we want to keep trying to do and expand. Sounds like they did great. Then a great play session AND Monty let Cosmo come out from under the coffee table. GREAT!! Then a bit of rough play (boys will be boys).

Then the "chase". Did you see what happened before that? BUT they rebounded quickly which is a positive and tells me that they know that there was no "nefarious" intent. Just too rough.

You are doing great. This is a fantastic update. Yes, more "together" time. Sometimes with play they get overstimulated so move towards "rough play" so follow the process you did with dinner. Getting them to hang out before the play so they aren't as over stimulated and also at times when they are sleepier.

But overall, great work. great progress!! You are really, really close. I am so proud of all of you!!! AWESOME job!!!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

I forgot to post yesterdays video oops.
I've started letting Monty out before preparing their food morning and evening and everything was fine, this time they started getting a little rough, I don't know why, they were fine in the end.
After that we had a round of chasing nerfgunarrows down the hallway, they both seemed to enjoy it quite a bit, at the end Monty got a little to amped up and he was being to rough with Cosmo so we intervened as needed. Monty chased him for a bit and they ended up on the couch, at first it wasn't really negative, as Cosmo became more and more irritated, we broke it of and after calming them down a bit I shot another arrow down the hallway, my mistake, Cosmo ran after that and Monty took the opportunity to "attack" Cosmo, but Cosmo wasn't having it at all and he started hissing at Monty really bad and as I was tryinf to seperate them Monty wouldn't let go of Cosmo's neck at first, which led to him hissing even more.
They're both quite amped up right now, but they don't behave differently, so atleast thats good.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I LVOE how the video starts. Monty jumps up by the window and Cosmo looks,. all is good. Monty can't resist and jumps up to Cosmo and gives him a play pat. Monty wants to play with Cosmo. Then Monty turns his back and goes back to the ledge. Then they both groom a little. THIS IS SERIOUSLY CUTE!! They are chilling!! FANTASTIC!!

Look at Cosmo watching Monty walk away then Monty jumps on the counter. GREAT "body language" from each. Hahahaha, Cosmo runs towards Monty THEN jumps on the counter and look at the body language. TOTAL TRUST!!! There must have been some food htere and NO fight over it AND Monty jumps down. PERFECT!!! Then Cosmo jumps down and jumps on Monty and starts playing!?!?!?!? WOW!! And of course they have to wrestle. If Cosmo is afraid/doesn't trust Monty her sure doesn't show it. Gets a little rough, gets broken up. Monty has his tail up (no sign of negativity). Comos runs to him and Monty gives soft pats to Cosmo. Then Cosmo jumps up and now it is Monty's turn to pounce. Cosmo gives a nip. Must have gotten a bit too wild as the camera loses focus. But I really didn't see anything that worrisome (of course I wish they wouldn't be so rough but I see restraint which tells me a lot - they don't want to hurt each other). And if the had issues there were multiple times they could have but they showed so much trust.

GREAT that they are getting more time together when you are doing things.

Sounds like they played with the nerf arrows nicely. Yes, play can get them wild so it is not surprising that they would chase. It is actually good that Cosmo stands up for himself to express his displeasure as long as it doesn't escalate the situation.

Good that you ended it but PLEASE be careful you don;t accidentally get hurt. And it is REALLY a good sign that no negativity lingered. That is our biggest "tell". If they act like how they acted in the video you showed at some time after a "dust up" then they are fine. Watch their body language, watch if they look away form each other. Things like that.

You are doing great!! I LOVE how much trust they have between each other. REALLY well done!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

We didn't have the time to give them much time together, last week, because of work and stuff. I usually still have them together while preparing their food and we try to occasionally just have them together.
It's getting a little odd. While being together while I prepare food, they would normally not jump on each other, the last few days that happened and I can't tell who started it. And Cosmo is getting a little too confident, maybe? Monty came out of the bedroom and was just minding his own business and Cosmo inidiated play immidiatly. It got rough pretty quickly and Cosmo wouldn't stop. They completly switched rolls today and I'm very surprised. He wasn't trying to kill him or anything and I didn't let it get to the point where anyone was hissing or even growling, but I didn't like what I saw and I'm quite confused by that. Unfortunatly it all happend so quick I didn't have my phone in hand, but it was basically the complete opposite of what normally happens.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

I feel so God damn disrespected.
It's a nice Saturday my bf and I were chilling on the couch and just moved to our office (the door is on the otherside where the bedroom door is) and Cosmo was going crazy, he was zooming around the hallway, which is nothing unusual for him.
He was starting to jump at the door and run around like crazy. Monty would start jumping at the door after a while as well.
After around 10 minutes I was going in the hallway and I immediately smell that smell. The smell of ****ing cat pee inside a cardboard box which was standing there for the cats to play in.
I feel so disrespected. We do everything for him. He doesn't like being in the bedroom? Move him out. Now he wants to be with Monty? LET ME PEE HERE BECAUSE I'M ANGRY.
... Sorry for my outburst, its just so frustrating when you're doing everything and it's just getting peed on again.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I am so sorry. Don't worry, it is better to vent here.

So I just want to understand what happened. Cosmo couldn't have access to the office? And Monty was in the bedroom with the door limiting access to Cosmo and the rest of the house? So basically Cosmo didn't have access to you, your bf, or Monty?

If that is what it is then I think Cosmo got stressed from territory not being accessible (and not having access to you and your bf - when you went into the office). And when cats get stressed they express it in different way and sadly peeing is on of them.

It sounds like Cosmo was in full energy and wanted to either be with you guys (just knowing he had access to you even though he was zooming around) and/or wanting to play with Monty.

SO I just want to understand exactly what territory had access to and what people he was in the territory with before he peed. Just so I can understand but I am guessing he got stressed from too much energy and then not having access to either you, your bf and/or Monty.

Please believe me, he isn't trying to disrespect you. It is a stress relieving thing.That he gets frustrated that he can't play with Monty or be near you and your bf and he has to relieve that stress. I actually wonder if we should be leaving them out together much more than we have been. I think he may be telling us we are not moving fast enough.Now to your first post which fits in with what I just wrote.

I am guessing that there was some pent up energy from not being able to have them together as much last week as normal. He is a young cat with endless energy AND he feels really comfortable with you, your bf and Monty. I think Cosmo is trying to tell us that "we are there".

BUT I can understand your concern because of how rough they get as you mention in your first post. If you remember, I mentioned how Cosmo appeared to switch roles with Monty in a prior video. It was interesting. And yes, I agree with you, Cosmo has gotten A LOT of confidence and trust and is playing with Monty like Monty played with him. I think Cosmo is just so excited to have a playmate that he can't resist. I think Monty's action in the beginning of their intro were a bit "territorial" and "dominating" and then it moved to play. But I get a sense Cosmo's isn't that but is just excitement of having a play friend. Yes it is rough and probably too rough. BUT watch how they act after.

For an example, my 2 outside feral boys LOVE each other but they get really rough. When they are waiting to be fed they will really go at each other. Never hurt each other but if someone saw them and didn't know they would be like "they are fighting, stop it". Now of course I tell them "no" and they stop and go right back to it. THEN I bring the food and they are rubbing on each other, then eat together then go into a house to sleep together. My point is, that is just them. Their relationship. I don;t like it BUT I watch to see if they hurt each other (they don') and how they act after (they act normal which tells me it is nothing).

I almost feel like your boys are similar to them. They love each other, get along, but they just love that rough play. And since they are young and have endless energy they do a lot of it.

So I would just keep telling them to stop it in whatever way you think works, try to distract with food or toys or words as needed. If it still goes on then you may have to separate them in another way (safely though). If it happens before feeding it is easy because the food should distract them. And always watch to see how they act after. IF there is any negative change in behavior then we know it was something that would be concerning.

It is tricky because I know we don;t like that rough stuff but they seem to enjoy it AND since they don;t see like they are being negatively affected by it after (maybe because you do stop it before it escalates though) the I wouldn't worry.

I think the peeing is going to stop when all the territory will be available. It just seems like Cosmo is really sensitive to territory not be accessible. I am guessing the recent peeing incident was all territory driven. He wanted to be with you, your bf and/or Monty.

SO keep doing what you are doing and also try to increase the time they have together. And if they are getting a little too rough try to say something and if you do hear some negativity then use more distraction tools (play or food) and if it just gets totally out of control then maybe separate Monty in the bedroom but try to watch how they act and make sure you and.or your bf are in the same territory as Cosmo. I think Cosmo is telling us that he wants "All Access". I know because of the rough play you don't feel comfortable with that but trying to keep them together as often as possible and monitor how well they are doing will tell us when it will be time.

Honestly, they moved faster than even I thought they would. Let me know what you think and please post with any updates. Also, let me know how Monty is acting after this switch in roles with Cosmo.

 

[Furballsmom]

he isn't trying to disrespect you

Cats don't think this way at all, I promise. I know it's frustrating as all heck, but don't take it personally. He doesn't mean it like that at all.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

So I just want to understand what happened. Cosmo couldn't have access to the office? And Monty was in the bedroom with the door limiting access to Cosmo and the rest of the house? So basically Cosmo didn't have access to you, your bf, or Monty?

The door to the office is always open, he can come here and lay under the desk (we put a pillow there for him to lay on, he layed there before but he didn't for a while now) and he has another two spots here in the room with us, but he just doesn't lay here anymore. He also has the option to lay in 3 spots in the hallway, he loved all those spots before but just lays in the livingroom instead now.

And yes, Monty was in the bedroom with the screen door seperating them.

Cosmo had acess to me and my bf, just not to Monty, because they'll get so rough.
So he wasn't alone at all.

Please believe me, he isn't trying to disrespect you. It is a stress relieving thing.That he gets frustrated that he can't play with Monty or be near you and your bf and he has to relieve that stress. I actually wonder if we should be leaving them out together much more than we have been. I think he may be telling us we are not moving fast enough.Now to your first post which fits in with what I just wrote.

Cats don't think this way at all, I promise. I know it's frustrating as all heck, but don't take it personally. He doesn't mean it like that at all.

I know he doesn't mean it like that, it just feels like a slap in the face to me and I know that I can't be angry with him, after all he's just a cat.

BUT I can understand your concern because of how rough they get as you mention in your first post. If you remember, I mentioned how Cosmo appeared to switch roles with Monty in a prior video. It was interesting. And yes, I agree with you, Cosmo has gotten A LOT of confidence and trust and is playing with Monty like Monty played with him. I think Cosmo is just so excited to have a playmate that he can't resist. I think Monty's action in the beginning of their intro were a bit "territorial" and "dominating" and then it moved to play. But I get a sense Cosmo's isn't that but is just excitement of having a play friend. Yes it is rough and probably too rough. BUT watch how they act after.

They act fine afterwards, but we can't leave them together as the get so hyped up that someone get's really annoyed and it'll get a bit problematic. It would be fine if they would respect eachothers boundaries, but they just don't. If one of them is hissing, the otherone will just jump on him again. And even when we try to calm them down and continue having them together, they'll just get so amped up that they are out of control.

For an example, my 2 outside feral boys LOVE each other but they get really rough. When they are waiting to be fed they will really go at each other. Never hurt each other but if someone saw them and didn't know they would be like "they are fighting, stop it". Now of course I tell them "no" and they stop and go right back to it. THEN I bring the food and they are rubbing on each other, then eat together then go into a house to sleep together. My point is, that is just them. Their relationship. I don;t like it BUT I watch to see if they hurt each other (they don') and how they act after (they act normal which tells me it is nothing).

I almost feel like your boys are similar to them. They love each other, get along, but they just love that rough play. And since they are young and have endless energy they do a lot of it.

So I would just keep telling them to stop it in whatever way you think works, try to distract with food or toys or words as needed. If it still goes on then you may have to separate them in another way (safely though). If it happens before feeding it is easy because the food should distract them. And always watch to see how they act after. IF there is any negative change in behavior then we know it was something that would be concerning.

I'm still not quite good with interpreting theri bodylanguage, I'll try to look at their ears and I get worried when they move them back. They are usually not pinned back all the way but a little more then them just being sideways.

That with your two ferals sounds quite interessting, maybe I'm just a helicopter mom haha.
I'm just wating for them to lay down in the same room and not being all over eachother for one time, that would be the thing for me.
I can't monitor them 24/7

SO keep doing what you are doing and also try to increase the time they have together. And if they are getting a little too rough try to say something and if you do hear some negativity then use more distraction tools (play or food) and if it just gets totally out of control then maybe separate Monty in the bedroom but try to watch how they act and make sure you and.or your bf are in the same territory as Cosmo. I think Cosmo is telling us that he wants "All Access". I know because of the rough play you don't feel comfortable with that but trying to keep them together as often as possible and monitor how well they are doing will tell us when it will be time.

Mealtime is soon, so I'll look how the behave then.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Interesting. So it sounds like it was access to Monty that probably caused it. Was there any negativity between Monty and Cosmo before this peeing incident? How were they acting? Normal or was there any "different" behavior? And what about when they were jumping on the door (I am assuming it is the screen door that separates Monty and Cosmo). Did it seem aggressive at all? Any growling or negative body language? Or did you not see?

Yes, the hissing is not being taken as a warning. They have a lot of trust that the other one wont hurt them. It sounds like they are just so excited they can;t control themselves. Is the recent "encounter" that you mention like the ones in the prior videos? They just have so much energy. Do you think they acted differently than what i have been seeing in the videos? Or is it basically the same behavior?

Body language is hard. I can say, in the prior videos I didn't see body language that was concerning or a warning regarding their relationship. Even when ears go back when they are wrestling it is not worrisome though if they go back when they are staring it is. It really is nuanced. It is hard. But let me know of any change you sense vs what we have been seeing in the videos.

Aren't we all helicopter mom's???? Hahahahaha. It really is about understanding each cat and their personalities and relationships. What might be ok with 2 cats may not be with 2 different cats. It is a little complex but in time you'll understand by seeing it.

Well, in the videos I have seen them be together without focusing on each other, hanging out, etc. It may not last long but it is there. I think the novelty of having a playmate is really overshadowing everything. Once they get more time together the novelty should go away to some degree. I see two cats (from he videos) that have a good trusting relationship. Of course, that doesn't mean it can't go bad but I don;t see that happening, that is highly unlikely in my opinion. We may just have to see how it plays out. If they will get tired of rolling around or one tells the other one to "seriously knock it off". Right now they seem to like this (even though it is really rough). :/

Do you sense either cat fears the other one? Is Monty more afraid of Cosmo nowadays?

Will be interesting. If they get into it but then go and eat and focus on the food and not each other you have a win. I am interested in hearing the update.

Don't worry, they are going to be fine. I think they moved a bit faster than we thought they would. If anyone was early not trusting the other they would not act this way. If there were problems we would be seeing it. It is not perfect but you really are almost there.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Interesting. So it sounds like it was access to Monty that probably caused it. Was there any negativity between Monty and Cosmo before this peeing incident? How were they acting? Normal or was there any "different" behavior? And what about when they were jumping on the door (I am assuming it is the screen door that separates Monty and Cosmo). Did it seem aggressive at all? Any growling or negative body language? Or did you not see?

I didn't see the jumping at the door, but I assume that it was like any other time, they didn't act any different after that. And I heard no growling.

Yes, the hissing is not being taken as a warning. They have a lot of trust that the other one wont hurt them. It sounds like they are just so excited they can;t control themselves. Is the recent "encounter" that you mention like the ones in the prior videos? They just have so much energy. Do you think they acted differently than what i have been seeing in the videos? Or is it basically the same behavior?

I don't know if they really acted differently or if we just interpreted it like that, I thought it was a bit more aggressive than in the videos.

Even when ears go back when they are wrestling it is not worrisome though if they go back when they are staring it is. It really is nuanced. It is hard.

Oh! That really helps alot!

Do you sense either cat fears the other one? Is Monty more afraid of Cosmo nowadays?

No, I sense no fear at all.



Soo, I'm sorry this video is so damn long, but I wasn't able to cut much out, since it wouldn't make sense anymore.
It was quite interessting letting them just do what they want, without seperating them much. We ended up seperating them after 1 1/2 hours so they would calm down and go to sleep, but I'm very pleased with the way they handled it. There was a bit off hissing from Cosmo as he was getting tired more quickly than Monty and alot of fur flying but they changed roles frequently which solved the "porblem" partly.

 

[Furballsmom]

I love your videos - they're just so beautiful! ...if a handful LOL...

 

[calicosrspecial]

Ok, good. So nothing obviously out of the ordinary most likely.

Ok. Yes, it is difficult to judge whether it is worse etc.

Great. I can say, I never saw any real concerns (other than it getting too rough) in all the prior videos. I never saw bad intent in their actions.

Yes, I didn't think there was any fear between them which is great.

Please never apologize for the length of video. Whatever you post is great (better longer than too short). I will watch and respond to the video next. But WOW, 1.5 hours!!! THAT IS GREAT!!! Interesting they switch roles and Cosmo was hissing. I will take a watch of the video and respond as I watch.

Starting off with them eating right next to each other focused on the food not each other. PERFECT!! Then Cosmo wants to play with "Monty's" toy and Cosmo pounces right in front of Monty and no negative response. No negative body language. TRUST!! Cosmo sniffs Monty and nothing happens. Again, great. And Cosmo and Monty really just chilling for a second on the bed and video cuts.

Then Cosmo starts playing with the toy alone AND he picks it up, Seriously, how cute is that?!?!?!? Ad then Cosmo walks with the toy and we see Monty hopping. Again, how cute is this?!?!?!?! Monty wants to play and Cosmo is kind of guarding the toy. Great body language, no negativity. And Monty walks away. GREAT. Cosmo almost looks to be looking for Monty and Monty comes back into the corridor (which would be a horrible for two cats that do not get along) and Monty walks by Cosmo. Ahhhh, Monty went to the toy. Monty has his back turned to Cosmo (a sign of trust) and then Cosmo walks by Monty. And of course Monty follows Cosmo. Again, not something cats with problems would do.Monty runs past Cosmo and no response. GREAT. Nose sniff in the hall, great body language. Monty walks in front of Cosmo and no response. Monty runs off. Monty is on the couch and Cosmo goes to a toy and I think Cosmo calls out for Monty. Monty hears the call and comes running to Cosmo. I am guessing we are going to get some rough play now. We got a little neck bite and nothing. Cosmo walks away and Monty is like "what happened'. That encounter tells me a lot. There was all play intent. No meanness or anything. Monty responded to Cosmo's call. Cosmo goes to eat and Monty wants to play. Another little neck bite. WOW, and Monty let's Cosmo eat? WOW, POSITIVE!!! Another great sign of how much they trust and respect each other. I am really proud of them right here!! Monty walks away and Cosmo continues eating. Monty goes up on the couch. That was REALLY positive.

I think we are going to get some wildness so let's start another paragraph. Now Monty is in play mode and stats playing with the toy he didn't before. And Cosmo is like "I wanna eat more". Hahahahaha. Well, the video cut here. I would love to know how long this cut lasted. Until this next part.

Monty wants to play and stalks and pounces at Cosmo. I thought ok, here we go. And Cosmo walked away and Monty goes on a box. I can tell this is going to get rough but amazing it hasn't started yet. Monty is wanting to play so badly. Cosmo walks away but comes back as Monty goes to the window. Cosmo is showing signs he wants to play now. I think Cosmo calls Monty and Monty hears and jumps down. Yep, now it is on. And Cosmo is running away. And of course they go to the coffee table. I thought we would get some play there but Cosmo run away and then there was a pause. Monty stops and looks at the camera. So this is not anger/rage/ fight but total play. Here we go with the wrestling and someone breaks it up. And Monty is fine with that. And Cosmo stays in the same spot. Not something a cat that fears another cat would do. And of course Monty goes back to it. AND it gets broken up again. But look how good they are to accept the breaking up. If it was serious they would be locked on each other. The Monty has to come back because play isn;t over. And "jumps" on Cosmo and look how gentle. Look at how Cosmo bites Monty's ear and there is no meanness or no feeling of being threatened by Monty. They each know this is play.

Then another chase and wrestling match and just after 6:00 in look how gentle they are. Easily broken up. Then Cosmo runs towards either Monty or the toy and starts focusing on the toy. GREAT distraction. Look how Monty walks by down below and Cosmo looks at him. If there was something to worry about between these two we wouldn't be at this point. Monty on the floor, Cosmo on a box. Wow. They are in play mode and basically chilling at this moment. Fantastic. They are in pause mode of their play. Video cuts.

Then Monty sniffs Cosmo's foot and there is a pounce and a noise. The noise might have been an "ouch" in cat language and it gets rough and you calm it down. Look at the look on Monty's face. Feel free to use words at this point to see if you can distract from looking at Cosmo. Then the video cuts. Did it get too wild at this point? 7:40 into the video.

New video. Look at Monty peaking around the thing. And then the chase but a pause on the cat tree then another chase. Total play mode. Little too rough in the hall. (this looks exactly like my two outside feral boys). Notice how careful they are not to hurt the other one and we don't see or hear any indication someone is being hurt. At this point feel free to try words to distract them. See what they may respond to. At about 9:10 one of them made a noise like an "ouch". VERY interesting they slowed down a bit after that. THEY GOT THE MESSAGE. It got too rough for them. So wildness and Cosmo was vulnerable so IF Monty really wanted to hurt him he could have AND it tells me that Cosmo trusts Monty not to hurt him. I would use words to see if I could get them to take a longer break here.

At about 10:06 there was another "ouch" sound where it got too rough. I think Monty bite a little too hard. At 10:27 or so look at how Monty puts his paw on Cosmo's paw. Then gives a butt bite. I see ears back a bit but I think that isn't the bad kind. Then Monty sniffs Cosmo's paw again. It is calming for a second.

Then there is another chase, some noises (I didn't like) more wrestling and then a chase towards the couch. Then appropriately at 11:10 or so it is time to break them up.

Then seconds later they are this calm? WOW!! Cosmo under the coffee table and Monty just sitting there. This tells me a lot. It is all play and they can chill right after. GREAT!!! I don't see any lingering negativity. Video cuts.

Now they are laying in the kitchen. This is the chilling we like to see. Video cuts.

Then Cosmo grooming Monty and Monty doesn't mind? WOW!!! Pals. Chilling on the counter. Then I think Cosmo calls Monty and Monty comes over. Cosmo wants to play on the counter? Cosmo goes on his side. Light pawing. Monty is going to jump down and Cosmo paws at him as if to say "come on let's play. TOO FUNNY!!! Monty walks over Cosmo and Cosmo bites his leg (gently). Now Cosmo is begging to play and Monty doesn't. Cosmo gives up and jumps down. Video cuts.

Now Monty is laying like Cosmo does (on his side) and I thought here is the role reversal. But Cosmo walks away and calls Monty. Monty doesn't come so Cosmo runs and pounces on Monty (where did Cosmo learn that from?????) Wrestling. now, if Cosmo didn't like wrestling why would he start it? And we have the roles reversed. Monty in the vulnerable position. BUT Cosmo doesn't harm him. Video ends with rough play.

Sorry about the long response but I wanted to detail each step so that if you had questions it will address my take on it. If you are still confused jsut let me know what part and I can address it specifically in more detail.

So overall, I saw great things, I saw rough play, I saw rough play that resulted in a cat "ouch" and the other cat backed off a bit, I saw role reversals. I didn't see meanness or a bad intent. A saw rough play that at times got too rough BUT they knew where the line is. There were a lot of time this could have gone bad BUT it DIDN'T which tells me that they have a great and trusting friendship. I see two wild boys with a lot of energy that respect and trust each other. I would use words and tone to slow it down a bit at times but overall I see a relationship that is ahead of where I thought they would be. GREAT WORK!!! AND I am proud of Monty and Cosmo!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

I think we are going to get some wildness so let's start another paragraph. Now Monty is in play mode and stats playing with the toy he didn't before. And Cosmo is like "I wanna eat more". Hahahahaha. Well, the video cut here. I would love to know how long this cut lasted. Until this next part.

I think Cosmo was looking into the bowl for another minute before they started playing again.

Then Monty sniffs Cosmo's foot and there is a pounce and a noise. The noise might have been an "ouch" in cat language and it gets rough and you calm it down. Look at the look on Monty's face. Feel free to use words at this point to see if you can distract from looking at Cosmo. Then the video cuts. Did it get too wild at this point? 7:40 into the video.

They were wrestling quite a bit after the video cuts and the next clip is right after they were finished with wrestling behind the table. It got wild but they figured it out themselfs.

Then Cosmo grooming Monty and Monty doesn't mind? WOW!!! Pals.

Yeah, Cosmo ries that all the time, because Monty always has such a dirty butthole xD and Cosmo doesn't like that, so he tries to fix it.

Chilling on the counter. Then I think Cosmo calls Monty and Monty comes over. Cosmo wants to play on the counter? Cosmo goes on his side. Light pawing. Monty is going to jump down and Cosmo paws at him as if to say "come on let's play. TOO FUNNY!!! Monty walks over Cosmo and Cosmo bites his leg (gently). Now Cosmo is begging to play and Monty doesn't. Cosmo gives up and jumps down. Video cuts.

I thought this little leg bite was so funny! I was seriously amazed with how calm the were.

Now Monty is laying like Cosmo does (on his side) and I thought here is the role reversal. But Cosmo walks away and calls Monty. Monty doesn't come so Cosmo runs and pounces on Monty (where did Cosmo learn that from?????) Wrestling. now, if Cosmo didn't like wrestling why would he start it? And we have the roles reversed. Monty in the vulnerable position. BUT Cosmo doesn't harm him. Video ends with rough play.

I was surprised that Cosmo had such a huge urge to iniciate play yesterday! And the his pounce? I didn't thought that was something he would do, just because he was very passive in other situations.

Sorry about the long response but I wanted to detail each step so that if you had questions it will address my take on it. If you are still confused jsut let me know what part and I can address it specifically in more detail.

I love your long responses! I'll read your post and rewatch the video at the same time and I'll notice things that went completly over my head while fliming it!

So overall, I saw great things, I saw rough play, I saw rough play that resulted in a cat "ouch" and the other cat backed off a bit, I saw role reversals. I didn't see meanness or a bad intent. A saw rough play that at times got too rough BUT they knew where the line is. There were a lot of time this could have gone bad BUT it DIDN'T which tells me that they have a great and trusting friendship. I see two wild boys with a lot of energy that respect and trust each other. I would use words and tone to slow it down a bit at times but overall I see a relationship that is ahead of where I thought they would be. GREAT WORK!!! AND I am proud of Monty and Cosmo!!

It was hard at times to not seperate them immidietly when they get so rough, but otherwise we wouldn't have had the situation where they just ended it themselfs and went on the counter to explore.

So we'll try to have them together even more and with a little more patient, they'll hopefully bein to just chill and go to sleep with the otherone in the room.
I'm very excited, as I saw them on the counter, I realised that that's one of ther last steps before they can finally live together and it feels so surreal.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Makes sense it lasted a minute.

Yes. It got a bit too wild but they did figure it out. I didn't see bad intent which is great but it did get a little too wild. They really are boys.

Hahahaha. Yep, they are fine.

The leg bite was funny and cute and totally gentle and a move that signals he wants to play. A real good look into their relationship and the trust. If they had issues this would not happen.

It is funny He so wanted to play so he must like the rough play before. Because why would he want to play again if he didn't enjoy it? And of course, he believes if it gets too rough Monty wont hurt him. There is a level of trust between them that I see and love. And Cosmo learns play from Monty. :/ (the rough play). They are something. This again tells me so much about where they are in their relationship. They are in a great place (even though the play is still a bit too rough).

Great. That is exactly why I do it that way, so you can look back and see something that is easy to miss or mis-interpret. There is nuance that can be seen on video that can;t be seen in real time.

Exactly. It really is art. Figuring out how to balance the situation between stopping too soon and stopping too late (which can cause issues with getting negativity to take hold). But you are doing a really good job and seeing this helps us understand where they are. This is rough play and not fighting. And seeing how they behave after really confirms that. IF we see change (caution, avoiding, etc) then we have to worry. We still have to be careful they don't lose trust so saying "hey, stop" or something in a calm but stern voice to see if they take a break is a good idea. I do that all the time with my outside boys and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn;t but it tends to just get a little break so they don't get to feeling an existential threat.

Yes, keep having them together. Do more calling their names to try to break it up, listen, watch how they act after. If you can sit down and just give one of them love (if you can safely) and have them focused on you and love rather than the other cat that can help in getting them relaxing in the same room. They are young cats and have endless energy so it will be challenging to have a lot of quiet time unless it is after a long "rough play" session where they are just finally tired of it. They will get there in time. We just have to balance them doing their rough play and not letting it get too rough while keeping them together for as long as possible (without it being negative). So it is a fine line but you are doing great. And always watch how they act after. If normal then things are fine. If any negative change then we have to stop the rough play earlier. The good news is I think you are right on top of this and doing a great job. You understand how to go about it.

I am really excited as well. There were so many positive signs in that video. The times they were together with no incident, the desire to initiate play by both cats at different times, the body language during rough play and when they are just around each other, the restraint they show during the rough play, the normal behavior after the rough play. I would like to see them reduce the rough play but they are boys and boys will be boys. But they will get tired of it and bored with it in time. Feel free to verbally tell them to calm down or knock it off and see if they respond (over time especially). Exercise discretion as to when to break it up physically.

Overall, you and your bf are doing and have done a GREAT job. the title of this thread is "Cat Introduction.... Failure?". I can answer No, it is a SUCCESS!!! Sure we have just to tie up a loose end (getting them together full time) but you have succeeded!! REALLY WELL DONE!!

Let's get them to the final phase so they can be together all the time. You are almost there!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

If you can sit down and just give one of them love (if you can safely) and have them focused on you and love rather than the other cat that can help in getting them relaxing in the same room.

They're not quite interessted in cuddeling whil they are in the same room, for right now.

They are young cats and have endless energy so it will be challenging to have a lot of quiet time unless it is after a long "rough play" session where they are just finally tired of it.

I had them together for two hours yesterday, after feeding them and they looked a bit tired to me from time to time, but there was nothing stopping them for dashing around the flat still.

I just let them do theri thing and tried to act normal and watch TV, I would have an eye on them and would interfere when someone wasn't happy with the situation anymore. For the most part I was throwing a pillow across the room and it help quite well.
I think, it was rough play but not as brutal anymore. They were minding their own business for shot periods of time, but it was really exhausting haha.

At one point Cosmo was roaming around on the kitchen counter and Monty wanted to initiate play by hitting Cosmo on the butt and biting his tail, Cosmo wasn't having it and started hissing at him, this was the first time I saw Monty backing off after Cosmo hissed at him.

To give them as much time together as possible I feed them this morning and didn't seperate them. At first they were just observing what I was doing in the bathroom and now they are back with their shenanigans. I noticed Cosmo is getting irritated quite easily today (even if he's always the one tackeling Monty before being fed haha). Monty will throw him over or he'll throw himself on the ground and he'll quickly start hissing even if the play isn't as rough as normally. I'll seperate them with the pillow, because in my mind, Cosmo just wants to have a little chill time. No no, Cosmo will immidiatly initiate play again and he's fine, but Monty isn't allowed to do the same. He's getting really cocky in my mind.

I'll try to have them together for as long as possible today until a) I'm gone for a doctors appointment, b) the cats are getting irritated or c) I'm just to tired to deal with them anymore haha


I'll keep you updated

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Okay, I have huuuuge news everybody!
I've been back home since 1 pm. and I've got them running around since then (it's nearly 3 pm when I'm tiping this)
1. I got Cosmo to purr
2. Monty was grooming in the hallway and Cosmo was charging at him full speed and meowed really loud to make him jump into the air. It was really hilarious!

There was the occasional hissing from Cosmo but nothing dramatic. I didn't have to step in that much, they mostly made it up themselfs.

So now for the exciting part! After being a handful for a while. Monty lays on the cattower grooming and I think now he's asleep.

And Cosmo is in the cardboard box next to it (at least I think that's where he is haha)

 

[Furballsmom]

Woo-hoo!! You all ROCK!!