Cat Introduction .... Failure?

ElevenFurbabies

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Hi and hello everyone!
We have a cat named Monty. He moved in with us after a friend of us found him and no-one seemed missed him. We got him castrated and he's about a year old.


And we thought a buddy would be perfect for him. So we got Cosmo back in June. We were told he's a little over one year old. In retrospect the old owners just wanted to get rid of him.
He's a really friendly cat and just wants to be cuddled, no aggression what so ever.


We were dumb and to excited for him to move in with us, so that we let them meet right away.
Not a good idea, I know. Monty ended up chasing Cosmo. And it was not pretty.

We learned from our mistakes and after binge watching every episode of My cat from hell and reading his book and the whole nine yards, we made a screendoor and started slowly feeding them at the door. Everything seemed great. They are both eating directly at the screendoor without a problem.
Then we started Eat, Play Love with feeding them in the same room. No problem.
For breakfast we are still feeding them at the screenshot but it's open. No problem either, Monty just walks away after that, minding his own business. No sign of aggression. We also swap sides everyday and Monty doesn't seem bothered by it.


But this all seems to good to be true.
Today after our eat play love session we decided, to try if they could finally interact with each other.
Monty walked up to him and immediately tried to bite his neck and push him on the ground. No hissing, no growling, no stareing, Tail- or earmovement whatsoever. We separated them right away, because the last time Monty ended up chasing after Cosmo, who tried to give him a nose greeting and acted all friendly. Cosmo is a passive cat and would always choose to run away instead of fighting.

I don't expect them to be best friends I just want to know if it's all lost.
I've read so many articles and they all say something like " after all those steps, put them together in a room and tada, everything is fine"
When do I know that they are ready? Or that we have to re-home one of them?


Thanks for your advice in advance
 

ElevenFurbabies

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Hi and hello everyone!
We have a cat named Monty. He moved in with us after a friend of us found him and no-one seemed missed him. We got him castrated and he's about a year old.


And we thought a buddy would be perfect for him. So we got Cosmo back in June. We were told he's a little over one year old. In retrospect the old owners just wanted to get rid of him.
He's a really friendly cat and just wants to be cuddled, no aggression what so ever.


We were dumb and to excited for him to move in with us, so that we let them meet right away.
Not a good idea, I know. Monty ended up chasing Cosmo. And it was not pretty.

We learned from our mistakes and after binge watching every episode of My cat from hell and reading his book and the whole nine yards, we made a screendoor and started slowly feeding them at the door. Everything seemed great. They are both eating directly at the screendoor without a problem.
Then we started Eat, Play Love with feeding them in the same room. No problem.
For breakfast we are still feeding them at the screenshot but it's open. No problem either, Monty just walks away after that, minding his own business. No sign of aggression. We also swap sides everyday and Monty doesn't seem bothered by it.


But this all seems to good to be true.
Today after our eat play love session we decided, to try if they could finally interact with each other.
Monty walked up to him and immediately tried to bite his neck and push him on the ground. No hissing, no growling, no stareing, Tail- or earmovement whatsoever. We separated them right away, because the last time Monty ended up chasing after Cosmo, who tried to give him a nose greeting and acted all friendly. Cosmo is a passive cat and would always choose to run away instead of fighting.

I don't expect them to be best friends I just want to know if it's all lost.
I've read so many articles and they all say something like " after all those steps, put them together in a room and tada, everything is fine"
When do I know that they are ready? Or that we have to re-home one of them?


Thanks for your advice in advance

Under adult supervision, so you can stick a broom or mop in between them, need be, allow both Monty and Cosmo to mingle. Even though Cosmo tends to run, eventually he will face Monty. They will most likely "get into it" fight, and establish a pecking order. One will become the alpha, the other the beta male.They will probably become friends. Don't give up on either of them.
 

ElevenFurbabies

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If you need to separate Cosmo and Monty prior to going out somewhere then do so but then soon as possible place the two of them back together while you can observe and come between if need be.Obviously show no favoritism.
 

calicosrspecial

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Oh, he's in a good mood. He's such a sweetheart. Even after his vet visit he was immediately cheerful and happy.
He absolutely hates car rides and would scream the whole way, but apparently he isn't resentful.



Yeah, I've read a bit already and I'm really not a fan of hills and Royal canin and all that stuff. He currently gets Feringa or Mjamjam which contain 70% meat and no garbage meat (I don't know what the correct term in English is haha) so I'm looking into supplementing him a paste to keep that in check.

BUT I'll definitely also make a post about it to get other people's experiences!
"Oh, he's in a good mood." - Great

" He's such a sweetheart." - He really is. I fell in love with him almost immediately. He is an amazing cat.

" Even after his vet visit he was immediately cheerful and happy." - WOW!!! GREAT!!!

"He absolutely hates car rides and would scream the whole way," - :( Yes

" but apparently he isn't resentful. " - So great, he knows he is "home". :)

"Yeah, I've read a bit already" - Great

" and I'm really not a fan of hills and Royal canin and all that stuff." - Understandable.

" He currently gets Feringa or Mjamjam which contain 70% meat and no garbage meat (I don't know what the correct term in English is haha) " - Hahahaha, "garbage meat" is correct! ;)

"so I'm looking into supplementing him a paste to keep that in check." - Sounds great. I know you will find something.

"BUT I'll definitely also make a post about it to get other people's experiences! " - Great. It is amazing how many people know so much. Food is the hardest thing in my opinion so it is good to get some advice (though it is never black and white and easy).
 
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RocketPuppy97

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If you need to separate Cosmo and Monty prior to going out somewhere then do so but then soon as possible place the two of them back together while you can observe and come between if need be.Obviously show no favoritism.

Thanks for the advice :heartshape:
But the post you quoted is now two years old ☺ Monty and Cosmo are actually good buddies now and share the same space without any problems!
But I still appreciate your reply!
 
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RocketPuppy97

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"Oh, he's in a good mood." - Great

" He's such a sweetheart." - He really is. I fell in love with him almost immediately. He is an amazing cat.

" Even after his vet visit he was immediately cheerful and happy." - WOW!!! GREAT!!!

"He absolutely hates car rides and would scream the whole way," - :( Yes

" but apparently he isn't resentful. " - So great, he knows he is "home". :)

"Yeah, I've read a bit already" - Great

" and I'm really not a fan of hills and Royal canin and all that stuff." - Understandable.

" He currently gets Feringa or Mjamjam which contain 70% meat and no garbage meat (I don't know what the correct term in English is haha) " - Hahahaha, "garbage meat" is correct! ;)

"so I'm looking into supplementing him a paste to keep that in check." - Sounds great. I know you will find something.

"BUT I'll definitely also make a post about it to get other people's experiences! " - Great. It is amazing how many people know so much. Food is the hardest thing in my opinion so it is good to get some advice (though it is never black and white and easy).

Yes food is always a difficult topic, especially because everyone has different opinions!
 

calicosrspecial

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Yes food is always a difficult topic, especially because everyone has different opinions!
:( Totally agree. :(

I believe mouse is supposedly the best diet. Right protein, moisture, etc. BUT that is not really a good option. :(

I know you will make the best decision. :)
 
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We are still waiting for the keys, but we started packing. The days are getting shorter and I always feel like Monty especially gets grumpy when the light hours change. He chases Cosmo more frequently and he hates it. It always ends in someone making noise of discomfort and a few hairballs flying, but they never act different around each other and no one was hurt.
We ditched the feliway, because it does Jack shit, again.
Cosmo pees in the bathtub everyday, sometimes several times a day. He's still on treatment for his struvite and uses the litter box most of the day. I don't know if I have mentioned it in my last post, but we have another litterbox in the bathroom now, we had hopes that cosmo might prefer using that instead of the bathtub. But no luck, unfortunately.
There are so many things at the moment I really can't tell anymore why he pees in the bathtub.
I just kinda gave up on it.
Maybe it magically disappears when we move, but I don't really think that will work.
 

calicosrspecial

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We are still waiting for the keys, but we started packing. The days are getting shorter and I always feel like Monty especially gets grumpy when the light hours change. He chases Cosmo more frequently and he hates it. It always ends in someone making noise of discomfort and a few hairballs flying, but they never act different around each other and no one was hurt.
We ditched the feliway, because it does Jack shit, again.
Cosmo pees in the bathtub everyday, sometimes several times a day. He's still on treatment for his struvite and uses the litter box most of the day. I don't know if I have mentioned it in my last post, but we have another litterbox in the bathroom now, we had hopes that cosmo might prefer using that instead of the bathtub. But no luck, unfortunately.
There are so many things at the moment I really can't tell anymore why he pees in the bathtub.
I just kinda gave up on it.
Maybe it magically disappears when we move, but I don't really think that will work.
"We are still waiting for the keys, but we started packing." - Almost there!! Exciting!! :)

" The days are getting shorter and I always feel like Monty especially gets grumpy when the light hours change." - :/ Change can do that.

"He chases Cosmo more frequently and he hates it. " - :/ Will he chose a toy instead of chasing Cosmo?

"It always ends in someone making noise of discomfort and a few hairballs flying, but they never act different around each other and no one was hurt." - It sounds like he has excess energy. What do you think? Do they act normal the other times of the day?

"We ditched the feliway, because it does Jack shit, again." - Yes, I am not a believer in it but some people have success.

"Cosmo pees in the bathtub everyday, sometimes several times a day." - :(

" He's still on treatment for his struvite" - How long does it typically take for it to work? I wonder if the crystals are a bit stubborn, big? Causing discomfort.

" and uses the litter box most of the day." - So it doesn't seem to be a bad association with the litter box typically.

Is it a specific time of the day when he goes in the bathtub?

" I don't know if I have mentioned it in my last post, but we have another litterbox in the bathroom now, we had hopes that cosmo might prefer using that instead of the bathtub. But no luck, unfortunately." - :( So it seems like it is something he likes or prefers about the tub. :/

"There are so many things at the moment I really can't tell anymore why he pees in the bathtub." - So many things? Like what else? I would think pain/discomfort (internal, paws, legs, etc), negative association at some part of the day with the litter box, stress (maybe from being chased?).

"I just kinda gave up on it." - I hear you. :(

There is something. It could be territorial insecurity (maybe due to neighbor noise?). But the bathtub is not the only place he feels safe in, etc.

"Maybe it magically disappears when we move," - I hope so. Make sure you keep the litter boxes, the old litter, all his stuff with his scent on it, etc so help him feel more secure in the new home.

" but I don't really think that will work. " - :/ What is your best guess as to it? Medical?

Are Monty and Cosmo still getting along well otherwise? Cosmo isn't showing signs of hiding, avoiding, etc?

Poor Cosmo. You are doing everything you can. It seems like it is worse than before the meds. :( Is there any change (otherwise) in his behavior, etc? Will Cosmo play as much as he did?

Hang in there. I KNOW it is so tough, frustrating, etc. Let's try to figure it out.

On a better note, I can't wait to hear you moved in to the new house.
 
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RocketPuppy97

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:/ Will he chose a toy instead of chasing Cosmo?
It only helps temporarily. Even after a good long playtime and food afterwards he'll still do it.

It sounds like he has excess energy. What do you think? Do they act normal the other times of the day?
It's usually before eating like 1 or 1 1/2 hours before they get fed. Or when cosmo is being especially loud. Call me crazy, but I really think Monty does it way more when the daylight hours change.

How long does it typically take for it to work? I wonder if the crystals are a bit stubborn, big? Causing discomfort.
It's hard to tell, but by now it sure has to do something. We'll soon have another check up.


So it doesn't seem to be a bad association with the litter box typically.

Is it a specific time of the day when he goes in the bathtub?
Before it was especially in the afternoon, but now it's random through out the day. It's odd, because if you catch him in the bathtub right before he is about to pee, he'll usually run off and use the litter box shortly afterwards.

So many things? Like what else? I would think pain/discomfort (internal, paws, legs, etc), negative association at some part of the day with the litter box, stress (maybe from being chased?)

There is something. It could be territorial insecurity (maybe due to neighbor noise?). But the bathtub is not the only place he feels safe in, etc.
Yeah, for one the struvite thing, the chasing, our loud neighbours, me now working 8 hours a day, us packing our stuff. It could be everything.

He seems happy and content all day long, giving headbutts, purring, chatting at us happily and everything.
And then he'll meow and walk around and the pee.

Maybe it magically disappears when we move," - I hope so. Make sure you keep the litter boxes, the old litter, all his stuff with his scent on it, etc so help him feel more secure in the new home.
Yeah, we're keeping all the old stuff!

" but I don't really think that will work. " - :/ What is your best guess as to it? Medical?

Are Monty and Cosmo still getting along well otherwise? Cosmo isn't showing signs of hiding, avoiding, etc?
I really don't know, since we are already treating him, it should start getting better, but maybe I'm just too impatient.

They get along, I didn't sense a change in their relationship, they had a phase before with more chasing and stuff and it was okay afterwards. But now cosmo is more... Brave? Now when he sees Monty laying somewhere that's his place, he'll go over and nip him in the butt to get him to move. Just like Monty was doing it. He seems more confident in that regard, but Monty still doesn't take a hiss from cosmo serious. He doesn't hide and he doesn't seem to avoid Monty.

Poor Cosmo. You are doing everything you can. It seems like it is worse than before the meds. :( Is there any change (otherwise) in his behavior, etc? Will Cosmo play as much as he did?
He's still the same! He's a really happy and loving cat. He loves to run around and he never gets enough off playing with toys. His appetite is great and his peeing is normal, other than not using the litterbox.

Hang in there. I KNOW it is so tough, frustrating, etc. Let's try to figure it out.

On a better note, I can't wait to hear you moved in to the new house.
Yes! I can't wait to finally move! Maybe the perfect cat home would finally make cosmo happy!
 

calicosrspecial

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It only helps temporarily. Even after a good long playtime and food afterwards he'll still do it.



It's usually before eating like 1 or 1 1/2 hours before they get fed. Or when cosmo is being especially loud. Call me crazy, but I really think Monty does it way more when the daylight hours change.



It's hard to tell, but by now it sure has to do something. We'll soon have another check up.




Before it was especially in the afternoon, but now it's random through out the day. It's odd, because if you catch him in the bathtub right before he is about to pee, he'll usually run off and use the litter box shortly afterwards.



Yeah, for one the struvite thing, the chasing, our loud neighbours, me now working 8 hours a day, us packing our stuff. It could be everything.

He seems happy and content all day long, giving headbutts, purring, chatting at us happily and everything.
And then he'll meow and walk around and the pee.



Yeah, we're keeping all the old stuff!



I really don't know, since we are already treating him, it should start getting better, but maybe I'm just too impatient.

They get along, I didn't sense a change in their relationship, they had a phase before with more chasing and stuff and it was okay afterwards. But now cosmo is more... Brave? Now when he sees Monty laying somewhere that's his place, he'll go over and nip him in the butt to get him to move. Just like Monty was doing it. He seems more confident in that regard, but Monty still doesn't take a hiss from cosmo serious. He doesn't hide and he doesn't seem to avoid Monty.



He's still the same! He's a really happy and loving cat. He loves to run around and he never gets enough off playing with toys. His appetite is great and his peeing is normal, other than not using the litterbox.



Yes! I can't wait to finally move! Maybe the perfect cat home would finally make cosmo happy!
"It only helps temporarily. Even after a good long playtime and food afterwards he'll still do it." - It is good that it helps at least temporarily. That tells me it isn't a serious relationship issue. Yes, he had endless energy (which is great as he is healthy and happy) but not so great for Cosmo always.

"It's usually before eating like 1 or 1 1/2 hours before they get fed." - Makes sense Play (Hunt, Capture, "Kill") and Eat.

"Or when cosmo is being especially loud." - Makes sense as well as it can activate instincts, or cause stress (my guess is it activates a play instinct).

" Call me crazy, but I really think Monty does it way more when the daylight hours change." - Totally possible. Change can bring on changes in behavior.

"It's hard to tell, but by now it sure has to do something. We'll soon have another check up." - Ok. Good to see what comes from the next check up.

"Before it was especially in the afternoon, but now it's random through out the day. " - Hmmmmmm, ok. So before when it was the afternoon there would probably be something specific to that time period. BUT now that it is random it makes me wonder if it is a discomfort, etc. :/

"It's odd, because if you catch him in the bathtub right before he is about to pee, he'll usually run off and use the litter box shortly afterwards." - Interesting. Now that doesn't support discomfort, etc. He knows he shouldn't go there. Hmmmmmmmmm. Maybe he just prefers it (for some reason)?

"Yeah, for one the struvite thing, the chasing, our loud neighbours, me now working 8 hours a day, us packing our stuff. It could be everything." - Yes, any of those could do it and combined they definitely could do it. BUT why only a certain time before? And now why when you come in he doesn't just do it but rather than knows he should use the box? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe it is a preferred place or part of a routine...............................

"He seems happy and content all day long, giving headbutts, purring, chatting at us happily and everything." - Yes, and that is what makes it so confounding. It isn't like he is stressed, unhappy, etc.

"And then he'll meow and walk around and the pee. " - Maybe it is for attention? Fun? What do you you all do after he goes in the tub? More attention? Etc?

"Yeah, we're keeping all the old stuff!" - Great

"I really don't know, since we are already treating him, it should start getting better, but maybe I'm just too impatient." - The next check up will be interesting. I am really wondering if it is more routine, attention, excitement, etc.

"They get along, I didn't sense a change in their relationship, they had a phase before with more chasing and stuff and it was okay afterwards." - Yes :/ I mean it is great they love each other but it isn't evidence for why he goes in the tub. :(

"But now cosmo is more... Brave? Now when he sees Monty laying somewhere that's his place, he'll go over and nip him in the butt to get him to move. Just like Monty was doing it." - WOW!!! Yep, they have no relationship issues. That is total trust behavior.

" He seems more confident in that regard," - That is great

" but Monty still doesn't take a hiss from cosmo serious. " - Why would he? He knows Cosmo loves him so he thinks "there is no way he wouldn't want to play".

"He doesn't hide and he doesn't seem to avoid Monty. " - And that supports all of the above. It is not Monty. Which is great BUT makes the reason harder to find.

"He's still the same! He's a really happy and loving cat. He loves to run around and he never gets enough off playing with toys. His appetite is great and his peeing is normal, other than not using the litterbox." - Again, nothing to support anything really. So I go back to attention seeking, entertainment, drama, etc. When you catch him before he then goes to use the box. Has he gone outside of the box anywhere else lately?

"Yes! I can't wait to finally move!" - Even I am excited!!!! :) How cool is that going to be???

" Maybe the perfect cat home would finally make cosmo happy!" - But Cosmo is happy. Everything you wrote tells me he is one happy cat. I don't think his peeing is from unhappiness, stress, etc. I can't really see any supported real reason. :/

What do you think?
 
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RocketPuppy97

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So I think Cosmo peeing in the bathtub is a habit. In a moment of utter desperation, when I found Cosmo in the bathtub meowing, ready to pee. I just took him and put him on the entrance of the litterbox and to my disbelief he went inside and used it. It baffled me. We were able to replicate this a few times. It just works when he's already in the bathtub.
My new plan is to use this tactic as often as we can, since we don't always notice when he goes in the bathtub. And I want to combine it with positve association. So we put his clicker and the paste I used for training a bit in a drawer outside the bathroom. so we can reward him as soon as he's done using the litterbox.
Maybe the positive association will make him use the litterbox more ofte again!
Wish me luck!
 

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If it was me, I'd just shrug and let him pee in the tub if he wants to. As places to pee outside the litterbox goes a tub or shower is the best you can hope for, it's not a wall, floor, counter, rug, carpet, furniture, laundry, you, etc. A bathtub is easily cleaned just by running the water for a few seconds. Take it from someone who has dealt with Cats peeing in all of those places, the tub is a blessing. DO NOT try to discourage him from peeing in it especially if he's got struvites, because if you manage to get him to stop using the tub he will go elsewhere to pee.
 
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If it was me, I'd just shrug and let him pee in the tub if he wants to. As places to pee outside the litterbox goes a tub or shower is the best you can hope for, it's not a wall, floor, counter, rug, carpet, furniture, laundry, you, etc. A bathtub is easily cleaned just by running the water for a few seconds. Take it from someone who has dealt with Cats peeing in all of those places, the tub is a blessing. DO NOT try to discourage him from peeing in it especially if he's got struvites, because if you manage to get him to stop using the tub he will go elsewhere to pee.
Yeah, the tub is not the worst place to pee in for sure. I don't want to discourage him from peeing in the bathtub, I just want to encourage him to pee in the litter box :) that's why we are trying to reward him for using the litter box. We don't yell at him or punish him for using the bathtub, we just are searching for what causes him to now use the bathtub more often
 

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Yeah, the tub is not the worst place to pee in for sure. I don't want to discourage him from peeing in the bathtub, I just want to encourage him to pee in the litter box :) that's why we are trying to reward him for using the litter box. We don't yell at him or punish him for using the bathtub, we just are searching for what causes him to now use the bathtub more often
If he's got struvites than 100% that is the problem, it's like peeing sand and causes a lot of pain. Cats don't think like we do so he doesn't know he's sick, he just knows that it started hurting when he was peeing in the litterbox, so he looks for somewhere else to pee that it won't hurt. Wait until his struvites are taken care of before trying to encourage him to use the litterbox, otherwise he's just going to keep associating the litterbox with pain and may stop using it entirely. Stress is one of the biggest causes of crystals, so look for things you can do to keep him calmer.
 

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Yeah, the tub is not the worst place to pee in for sure. I don't want to discourage him from peeing in the bathtub, I just want to encourage him to pee in the litter box :) that's why we are trying to reward him for using the litter box. We don't yell at him or punish him for using the bathtub, we just are searching for what causes him to now use the bathtub more often
"So I think Cosmo peeing in the bathtub is a habit." - Very well could be. AND he could just like the feel, etc

" In a moment of utter desperation, when I found Cosmo in the bathtub meowing, ready to pee. I just took him and put him on the entrance of the litterbox and to my disbelief he went inside and used it. It baffled me. We were able to replicate this a few times. It just works when he's already in the bathtub." - Interesting. So it does not seem like a real aversion to the litter box. Maybe the tub is a preference or habit.

"My new plan is to use this tactic as often as we can, since we don't always notice when he goes in the bathtub. And I want to combine it with positve association. So we put his clicker and the paste I used for training a bit in a drawer outside the bathroom. so we can reward him as soon as he's done using the litterbox.
Maybe the positive association will make him use the litterbox more ofte again!" - Great idea.

"Wish me luck! " - Good luck!!!
 

calicosrspecial

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Yeah, the tub is not the worst place to pee in for sure. I don't want to discourage him from peeing in the bathtub, I just want to encourage him to pee in the litter box :) that's why we are trying to reward him for using the litter box. We don't yell at him or punish him for using the bathtub, we just are searching for what causes him to now use the bathtub more often
Hi,

I just want to check in and see how the new house is, Monty and Cosmo, the job, and make sure you are safe from Covid. I saw Germany is kinda go up so please be safe.

Hope all is well. I know you are busy so just update when you have time. Be well. :)
 
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Hi 😊

We are knee deep in the renovation of our house and the cats hate being alone all day. Cosmo is still peeing in the bathtub and quite upset when we are back home and goes around meowing all evening. My new job is great! My colleagues are really nice.
I take cosmo to work tomorrow for a check up, to get his transponder implanted and his vaccination. We are trying to stay safe as good as possible. We don't go out much, just the necessary. It's just insane that our government doesn't do anything and make special adjustments so people can party on Karneval without any masks or stuff.

I hope your doing well too!
 

calicosrspecial

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Hi 😊

We are knee deep in the renovation of our house and the cats hate being alone all day. Cosmo is still peeing in the bathtub and quite upset when we are back home and goes around meowing all evening. My new job is great! My colleagues are really nice.
I take cosmo to work tomorrow for a check up, to get his transponder implanted and his vaccination. We are trying to stay safe as good as possible. We don't go out much, just the necessary. It's just insane that our government doesn't do anything and make special adjustments so people can party on Karneval without any masks or stuff.

I hope your doing well too!
Hi.

Oh wow. So you are not in the new house yet? Yes, the cats will not like being alone. :( They have been spoiled. Awwwwww, Cosmo. :/ How are his crystals?

AWESOME on the new job, I am SO HAPPY to hear you love it!!! :)

Good luck at the vet Cosmo!!!

I am so glad you are being safe and trying to stay safe. I know, I don't understand the risks people take not only for themselves but for others. :/

Since you are not all that busy ;) (hahahaha) just update when you can. Can't wait to hear when you are in the house and how Cosmo does in the new house.

We are doing ok, thank you.

Take good care and talk later when things settle down. VERY exciting times!! :) Congratulations on everything (house, new job). :) Great to hear from you.
 
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