Cat Introduction .... Failure?

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RocketPuppy97

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I just thought about posting here again today.
We are doing quite good so far. Monty is a little asshole the past few weeks, but I think it's because it gets darker earlier.

Yeah, the whole covid thing feels surreal right now. Toiletpaper is out off stock everywhere. People are throwing private parties like its nothing. And I'm afraid my school has to shut down again, I'll finish my apprenticeship next year and it would suck to not learn anything for another few month.

In my next post I'll post a little Monty and Cosmo content :)
 

calicosrspecial

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I just thought about posting here again today.
We are doing quite good so far. Monty is a little asshole the past few weeks, but I think it's because it gets darker earlier.

Yeah, the whole covid thing feels surreal right now. Toiletpaper is out off stock everywhere. People are throwing private parties like its nothing. And I'm afraid my school has to shut down again, I'll finish my apprenticeship next year and it would suck to not learn anything for another few month.

In my next post I'll post a little Monty and Cosmo content :)
I am so glad you all are doing well. Scary times.

Monty. Yep, they will be like that at times. BOYS!!!!!!!!

When I saw Covid coming back in Europe it is scary. But you have much better leadership so hopefully you can tackle it. The fact it is getting colder and people are indoors is not helping. :( Stay safe.

Yeah, the toilet paper thing we went through as well. Crazy. And people worry and the hoarding makes it worse. Hopefully it gets better soon.

The private parties are crazy. We had that as well and they cut the electricity to the homes. People think it is not a big deal but it is especially for those that are vulnerable. Frustrating. Europeans are much better than Americans so hopefully they handle it better. That is too bad to hear. A friend in Germany said that a Uber driver didn't want to wear a mask and got real angry so people like that exist even in Europe. In America half the country is like that :(. Not good.

I hope your school doesn't have to shut down. Ughhhhhhhhhhh I feel so badly for the students. It is awful.

Very cool you are almost through your apprenticeship. I hope you can learn more. So frustrating.

Just stay safe for you and your family, friends, neighbors. Hopefully we can crush this and get a vaccine soon to get back to a more normal life again.

I am just glad to hear you are safe!! And doing well.

OH MY GOODNESS!!! LOOK AT THOSE PICS!!!!!!!!!

Your cats are SO ADORABLE, GORGEOUS!!

Those are AMAZING photos!!! You capture them so well.

Sleep Monty. So adorable. A close up of Cosmo. GORGEOUS. Confident Cosmo showing his belly. TRUST!!! Gorgeous Monty in the bag. My goodness is he gorgeous and what an adorable picture!!! That is so Monty!!

Then the most beautiful picture. Monty loving Cosmo and Cosmo loving it. My heart is exploding with love and great feelings!!! That is PURE LOVE!!! :itslove:

THANK YOU FOR SHARING!!! I can't get enough of them. Did you post them to the instagram account? I think people would love those pics.

Stay safe!!! And good luck on school.

And thank you for helping Monty and Cosmo find a great home with all that love!!! FANTASTIC!!!
 
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RocketPuppy97

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I often forget to post on their Instagram 😂
I'll try my best to get some pictures on there.

So, I still have a question. We have a few problems with Monty. He's kinda been an asshole the past 2(?) month. When he thinks it's feeding time, usually 1 hour or so before actual feeding time. He'll chase after Cosmo and get on his nerves. So much so that cosmo will hiss, growl or even yelp when Monty bites in his fur. I'll find small fur patches around the apartment.
I don't even think it's malicious or anything like that.

The problem is, we can't make him stop. We can play with him for 15 to 20 minutes. We will turn our back and he'll be at it again.
The only thing that kinda helped was locking him in the bathroom. But I feel bad for it.
He knows full well that he's not supposed to chase cosmo like that if he doesn't want it. Every time we stand up and move towards him, he'll try to run away or hide after that.
They get fed 4 times a day. And with Monty terrorising Cosmo for like an hour before that is kinda draining.
Now we have the stupid time change. One hour forward. Now he can't read the clock. So he'll chase cosmo at like 5 instead of 6.
We don't know what to do.
We didn't even give in to feed him when he likes it, so I don't know why he thinks it works.

Apart from that, Monty mostly thinks of cosmo like the annoying little brother (in reality cosmo is half a year older) and they often sleep near each other but not really together.
When we're not looking they'll sometimes groom each other.
So I would say the get along most of the time.
Both of them act totally normal afterwards as well.

But we just think, we can't let Monty act like that to the point that cosmo hisses, growls of squieks.
Monty doesn't even care about those sounds, he'll just continue
 

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Hi! Since you know pretty specifically when this is going to occur, and malicious or not the fur being pulled out and the stress is really hard on Cosmo, --try to find a way to contain one or the other of them so Cosmo doesn't have to deal with this.
 

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I often forget to post on their Instagram 😂
I'll try my best to get some pictures on there.

So, I still have a question. We have a few problems with Monty. He's kinda been an asshole the past 2(?) month. When he thinks it's feeding time, usually 1 hour or so before actual feeding time. He'll chase after Cosmo and get on his nerves. So much so that cosmo will hiss, growl or even yelp when Monty bites in his fur. I'll find small fur patches around the apartment.
I don't even think it's malicious or anything like that.

The problem is, we can't make him stop. We can play with him for 15 to 20 minutes. We will turn our back and he'll be at it again.
The only thing that kinda helped was locking him in the bathroom. But I feel bad for it.
He knows full well that he's not supposed to chase cosmo like that if he doesn't want it. Every time we stand up and move towards him, he'll try to run away or hide after that.
They get fed 4 times a day. And with Monty terrorising Cosmo for like an hour before that is kinda draining.
Now we have the stupid time change. One hour forward. Now he can't read the clock. So he'll chase cosmo at like 5 instead of 6.
We don't know what to do.
We didn't even give in to feed him when he likes it, so I don't know why he thinks it works.

Apart from that, Monty mostly thinks of cosmo like the annoying little brother (in reality cosmo is half a year older) and they often sleep near each other but not really together.
When we're not looking they'll sometimes groom each other.
So I would say the get along most of the time.
Both of them act totally normal afterwards as well.

But we just think, we can't let Monty act like that to the point that cosmo hisses, growls of squieks.
Monty doesn't even care about those sounds, he'll just continue
Oh my, that is why the instagram wasn't updated.

"So, I still have a question. We have a few problems with Monty. He's kinda been an asshole the past 2(?) month. When he thinks it's feeding time, usually 1 hour or so before actual feeding time. He'll chase after Cosmo and get on his nerves. So much so that cosmo will hiss, growl or even yelp when Monty bites in his fur. I'll find small fur patches around the apartment." - Yes, they will often do this. I see this a fair amount. In fact, two of my outside ferals do this about 50% of the time. It often is pent up energy and wanting to eat. They get impatient so they turn the excess energy towards the other cat. My one feral wll also hiss, growl, etc and I too often find fur. BUT then they eat and are rubbing on each other etc.

So the key is what happens after they eat. If they act normal then it is that pent up energy.

"I don't even think it's malicious or anything like that." - I am guessing not and we can tell by how they act after eating. Judging by the pictures and what I know of Monty and Cosmo I don't think there is any bad intent. But let me know how they act after. If it is limited to before they eat then I think I know what is going on.

"The problem is, we can't make him stop." - I know, that is the challenge.

"We can play with him for 15 to 20 minutes. We will turn our back and he'll be at it again." - So he is playing and not bothering Cosmo? So the play does distract him away from Cosmo?

"The only thing that kinda helped was locking him in the bathroom. But I feel bad for it." - Yeah, I would try to avoid that because territory is so mportant to a cat and taking territory away can cause issues.

So after trying distraction the one thing I always try to do in these is work on building the more submissive cat's confidence. I believe a confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked (though think the source of this is more anxious to eat). So I try to play with the submissive cat in that area where the interactions occur. I also try to have multiple places to go high (cat tree, cat shelving, etc) and have multiple escape areas.

Also, I would consider feeding earlier especially if they (Monty) is acting fine after eating. Usually a cat will eat, groom, then go to sleep.

"He knows full well that he's not supposed to chase cosmo like that if he doesn't want it. Every time we stand up and move towards him, he'll try to run away or hide after that." - Yes, same with mine. But they have that pent-up energy and get excited.

"They get fed 4 times a day." - Does it happen before all feeding times? So not just before the morning feeding time but also the other times?

And how do they act after? Especially, do you notice any change in behavior from Cosmo? Is he walking differently, avoiding areas or Monty, or hiding more?

"And with Monty terrorising Cosmo for like an hour before that is kinda draining." - Yes. Cosmo needs to stand up a bit more as well.

"Now we have the stupid time change. One hour forward. Now he can't read the clock. So he'll chase cosmo at like 5 instead of 6." - Yep. :/

"We don't know what to do." - I think it has become a bit of a routine. Play with Cosmo and then eat.

"We didn't even give in to feed him when he likes it, so I don't know why he thinks it works." - I know. But I don;t think it is that, it is all about energy.

"Apart from that, Monty mostly thinks of cosmo like the annoying little brother (in reality cosmo is half a year older) and they often sleep near each other but not really together." - Yes, Monty does seem to want to be the dominant one. Monty was in the house at first so that is very common. It was his territory and he had to then learn to share it. Given the pictures I know Monty loves Cosmo and Cosmo loves Monty. But they act like family. Sometimes when we love we do do things that can be annoying because we know it is forgivable. :/

"When we're not looking they'll sometimes groom each other." - Exactly. That is why I don;t think it is at all malicious. It is all about wanting to play.

"So I would say the get along most of the time." - And another piece that tells me that they have respect, they have love. They aren't hurting each other. Etc. I wouldn't call what is happening "not getting along" I would call it being mischievously playful. I am guessing Monty has pent up energy wanting to eat, what sot play, Cosmo doesn't want to play and we get this wildness. I actually think it is a sign of Monty loving and trusting Cosmo and not negative in that regard. This is actually very common

"Both of them act totally normal afterwards as well." - :yess: That is the important answer to see the importance of what it is. So that tells me it is all about excess energy. Combined with all the other data and it is not about relationship issues it is all about that excess energy getting excited about eating.

"But we just think, we can't let Monty act like that to the point that cosmo hisses, growls of squieks." - Yes, agreed. How we deal with it is the question. Can you get Cosmo in bed with you for the first feeding? And then feed sooner and maybe even a touch more on the other feedings? IF you have time, distract Monty and keep telling Monty "no". Step up play with Cosmo and keep building his confidence and give him places to "escape" Monty if possible.

I will say. I have a girl (my oldest) that is very similar. She sleeps with me but at 4am she starts getting annoying to me, not the other cats, but me. And for the next 3 hours until feeding time she will be really annoying. Rubbing, stepping on me, not letting me sleep, etc. I will get a love bite hear and there. I am basically Cosmo. Then I feed everyone and she grooms and gets her sleep. :/ Cats And I am tired all day. :(

"Monty doesn't even care about those sounds, he'll just continue " - Yep, because he trusts Cosmo and knows his intent doesn't mean harm but it is all about play. So Monty doesn't thing he is being bad, or threatening so he thinks Cosmo should like it as much as he does. Which of course Cosmo doesn't. But we have to try some things but also Cosmo needs to get his point across better.

So I guess try to feed a bit earlier, step up play with Cosmo in those areas, think about adding places of height so Cosmo can escape (cat trees, cat shelving if possible), try to have multiple exit paths, keep distracting, keep telling him "no".

I am wondering about "free feeding" as an option (hard food). I don't typically like that but it might be an option to satisfy Monty in the meantime and have the wet food feedings at the set times. We might have to think about that.

I will say, this is a challenge for many people. We do need to try some things as we don't want it to cause problems down the road.

Let's try the above and let's see what might work. I wish I had a great answer but maybe we will discover one.
 
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RocketPuppy97

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So he is playing and not bothering Cosmo? So the play does distract him away from Cosmo?
Yeah, he doesn't care at all about Cosmo while playtime.
So after trying distraction the one thing I always try to do in these is work on building the more submissive cat's confidence. I believe a confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked (though think the source of this is more anxious to eat). So I try to play with the submissive cat in that area where the interactions occur. I also try to have multiple places to go high (cat tree, cat shelving, etc) and have multiple escape areas.
When we play, we usually chase both of them around the whole apartment with toys. Cosmo walks around like he owns this place, he'll even jump on Monty and chase him around playfully sometimes. Monty on the other hand just seems to be a little to rough with him.

Does it happen before all feeding times? So not just before the morning feeding time but also the other times?
Yeah, everytime. On some days he'll sleep till it's time to be fed and on other days he'll chase Cosmo and won't stop even if we play with them both. They get fed at 6:30 in the morning (wet food), around 13:00 for lunch (dry food), at 19:30 for dinner (wet food) and lastly before we go to bed a little more dry food so that they won't wake us up in the middle of the night.

hat is the important answer to see the importance of what it is. So that tells me it is all about excess energy. Combined with all the other data and it is not about relationship issues it is all about that excess energy getting excited about eating.
But what to do with this energy when playtime doesn't help?

Yes, agreed. How we deal with it is the question. Can you get Cosmo in bed with you for the first feeding? And then feed sooner and maybe even a touch more on the other feedings? IF you have time, distract Monty and keep telling Monty "no". Step up play with Cosmo and keep building his confidence and give him places to "escape" Monty if possible.
Cosmo is not the kind of cuddle in the morning cat, he'll sleep on the end of our bed, that's all. When I stand up he dashes in the kitchen meowing at the top of his lungs.
Monty is cuddly, he'll step all over me in the morning and when I don't stand up he'll chase Cosmo.
The sound of me standing up from where ever I am is enough to make him stop for like a minute.
Cosmo knows places where he would be save, but he just doesn't go there when Monty annoys him.
He has a cat bed under my bfs desk in the office, Monty can't annoy him there because we would know. We also have a wardrobe where only Cosmo can get to, because Monty can't jump that far. He sometimes sleeps on there and looks around.

So I guess try to feed a bit earlier, step up play with Cosmo in those areas, think about adding places of height so Cosmo can escape (cat trees, cat shelving if possible), try to have multiple exit paths, keep distracting, keep telling him "no".
Feeding earlier would be kind of a problem, especially for every feeding time.

I am wondering about "free feeding" as an option (hard food). I don't typically like that but it might be an option to satisfy Monty in the meantime and have the wet food feedings at the set times. We might have to think about that.
I tought about that aswell, but I am afraid that my little chubby Monty will get fat because he could eat as much as he wants, I don't even know if the bowl wouldn't be empty as soon as I turn my back on him.
 

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Yeah, he doesn't care at all about Cosmo while playtime.


When we play, we usually chase both of them around the whole apartment with toys. Cosmo walks around like he owns this place, he'll even jump on Monty and chase him around playfully sometimes. Monty on the other hand just seems to be a little to rough with him.


Yeah, everytime. On some days he'll sleep till it's time to be fed and on other days he'll chase Cosmo and won't stop even if we play with them both. They get fed at 6:30 in the morning (wet food), around 13:00 for lunch (dry food), at 19:30 for dinner (wet food) and lastly before we go to bed a little more dry food so that they won't wake us up in the middle of the night.



But what to do with this energy when playtime doesn't help?



Cosmo is not the kind of cuddle in the morning cat, he'll sleep on the end of our bed, that's all. When I stand up he dashes in the kitchen meowing at the top of his lungs.
Monty is cuddly, he'll step all over me in the morning and when I don't stand up he'll chase Cosmo.
The sound of me standing up from where ever I am is enough to make him stop for like a minute.
Cosmo knows places where he would be save, but he just doesn't go there when Monty annoys him.
He has a cat bed under my bfs desk in the office, Monty can't annoy him there because we would know. We also have a wardrobe where only Cosmo can get to, because Monty can't jump that far. He sometimes sleeps on there and looks around.


Feeding earlier would be kind of a problem, especially for every feeding time.


I tought about that aswell, but I am afraid that my little chubby Monty will get fat because he could eat as much as he wants, I don't even know if the bowl wouldn't be empty as soon as I turn my back on him.
"Yeah, he doesn't care at all about Cosmo while playtime." - Great, reinforces the view it is all about energy and eating. Not about the relationship being challenged.

"When we play, we usually chase both of them around the whole apartment with toys. Cosmo walks around like he owns this place, " - That is really good. Sounds like Cosmo is confident.

"he'll even jump on Monty and chase him around playfully sometimes. Monty on the other hand just seems to be a little to rough with him." - Yes, Monty and Cosmo like their rough play. Just like my two ferals. Boys. Some of them are like that. What is always telling is how they act afterwards to tell you what it was all about.

"Yeah, everytime. On some days he'll sleep till it's time to be fed and on other days he'll chase Cosmo and won't stop even if we play with them both. They get fed at 6:30 in the morning (wet food), around 13:00 for lunch (dry food), at 19:30 for dinner (wet food) and lastly before we go to bed a little more dry food so that they won't wake us up in the middle of the night." - Yep. In the wild they Hunt (chase, run around), Capture, Kill, Eat, Groom, Sleep. So Monty is doing what cats do. Playing around (hunting), of course not the "killing" but the pouncing, etc is a tame version of that, then he eats and is satisfied. Those are good feeding times.

"But what to do with this energy when playtime doesn't help?" - That is the challenging question. :/ Which I don't have a great answer for. Other than trying what I mentioned. I need to think more about this. I think maybe you should start a new thread and see what ideas other people can bring to the table. I am interested because I see this and deal with it personally all the time.

"Cosmo is not the kind of cuddle in the morning cat, he'll sleep on the end of our bed, that's all." - Ok. Does Monty jump up on the bed and mess with Cosmo?

" When I stand up he dashes in the kitchen meowing at the top of his lungs." - To be fed?

"Monty is cuddly, he'll step all over me in the morning and when I don't stand up he'll chase Cosmo." - Yep, sounds like my girl.

"The sound of me standing up from where ever I am is enough to make him stop for like a minute." - Yep, probably because he thinks food is coming.

"Cosmo knows places where he would be save, but he just doesn't go there when Monty annoys him." - Hmmmm, probably because he knows Monty doesn't mean harm.

"He has a cat bed under my bfs desk in the office, Monty can't annoy him there because we would know. We also have a wardrobe where only Cosmo can get to, because Monty can't jump that far. He sometimes sleeps on there and looks around." - That is good. So he could get away from him if he really wanted.

"Feeding earlier would be kind of a problem, especially for every feeding time." - Yes. And I think it is part of a routine. Play then eat. :/

"I tought about that aswell, but I am afraid that my little chubby Monty will get fat because he could eat as much as he wants, I don't even know if the bowl wouldn't be empty as soon as I turn my back on him." - That is the problem. :/ That is why free feeding is an issue. A lot of the overeating comes from a lack of food security in their past. I think Monty was a stray and that insecurity is probably a touch of the issue. And since cats are routine animals once they get into a routine they tend to keep doing it. Routines are good and help build confidence BUT they can be like this and frustrating and stressful.

Maybe encourage Cosmo to go up on the wardrobe before meals? He can't mind it too much if he isn't going there already.
Maybe start a new thread and see what other people would advise? I see this all the time but don't have much beyond what I have mentioned. :/ I face this and see this all the time but I guess I kinda just deal with it because it ends with eating and everything being fine. :/
 

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Although I guess my post above wasn't useful, I'll try again.

Since it's stressing you-all out, and is definitely stressing out Cosmo no matter how lovey they are otherwise, my point was to take a more direct action and break the cycle/routine as soon as possible.

Contain one of them so the chasing doesn't have a chance to start, feed at different times and also in different locations, feed one cat, then feed the other, et al --in other words change things up as much as you can to break Monty's habit. He's holding you-all hostage to a certain degree and that's not fair to any of you.

It won't take that long, I don't think, and the end result should be an allaround happier, and much healthier for Cosmo!, household ❣
 
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Two of my feral guys (the usual two) just did the same thing Monty is doing this morning before eating. Actual fur flying though. :/ One on his back while the other doing his thing. They then ate together and then cuddled up together. Cats............................
 

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My guys are really something.

Always rubbing on each other and head butting. Tails intertwined. But of course those encounters as well

Total characters.
 
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Although I guess my post above wasn't useful, I'll try again.

Since it's stressing you-all out, and is definitely stressing out Cosmo no matter how lovey they are otherwise, my point was to take a more direct action and break the cycle/routine as soon as possible.

Contain one of them so the chasing doesn't have a chance to start, feed at different times and also in different locations, feed one cat, then feed the other, et al --in other words change things up as much as you can to break Monty's habit. He's holding you-all hostage to a certain degree and that's not fair to any of you.

It won't take that long, I don't think, and the end result should be an allaround happier, and much healthier for Cosmo!, household ❣

So you mean for example:

6pm. Monty gets fed in the bathroom with the door closed. 7pm. Cosmo gets fed in the bathroom with the door closed. Next day Cosmo gets fed in the office with the door closed? And Monty gets fed later in another room with closed doors?

That sounds like a good idea, the only problem I have with that is: We would have to feed Monty first all the time otherwise I would fear he would chase Cosmo like normal.
Cosmo would just meow all the time if Monty is fed and he's not, which could be managable.
I
 

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I'm hoping that changing things up, and basically ruining his routine (lol) would only take a week or two to get him to stop viewing chasing as an automatic part of feeding.

You could then possibly utilize all sorts of little changes now and then to keep him from falling back into the chasing thing :)
 
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I'm hoping that changing things up, and basically ruining his routine (lol) would only take a week or two to get him to stop viewing chasing as an automatic part of feeding.

You could then possibly utilize all sorts of little changes now and then to keep him from falling back into the chasing thing :)

I'll try that! Thanks for your advice.

I'm also making a seperate thread for this problem, otherwise it goes under in our huge pile of posts :D
 
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So a little Update:

Changing locations - didn't help, made Monty confused andprone to not eat (he always eats)
Changing time - didn't really help either, we couldn't always catch the moment before Monty decides to chase Cosmo

So I decided to give free feeding a try. I was very nervous, because I was afraid one of them would just eat and eat and eat and not stop and/or then throw up.

I tried it for the first time tonight. I prepared their wet food as normal and gave it to them. Then I filled two food bowls with dry food. Cosmo was very excited for the dry food, he ate his food quicker then normal (but not tooo fast) and started eating the kibble right after.
Monty took the time to lick out his food bowl before switching to the kibble. Monty was eating a while and then stopped, returning and eating one or two bites more before grooming and walking away.
Cosmo on the other hand was just eating. And eating and eating I was suprised that he could eat this much without throwing up.
I thought he would never stop. He switched between his bowl and Monty's two times and I refilled both bowl with one little scoop (like 15g each) and finally he walked away, confused. He came back a few time just to check if the food was still there.

Just hoping he doesn't throw up tonight and I will be able to fill the bowl up and be good.
 

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So a little Update:

Changing locations - didn't help, made Monty confused andprone to not eat (he always eats)
Changing time - didn't really help either, we couldn't always catch the moment before Monty decides to chase Cosmo

So I decided to give free feeding a try. I was very nervous, because I was afraid one of them would just eat and eat and eat and not stop and/or then throw up.

I tried it for the first time tonight. I prepared their wet food as normal and gave it to them. Then I filled two food bowls with dry food. Cosmo was very excited for the dry food, he ate his food quicker then normal (but not tooo fast) and started eating the kibble right after.
Monty took the time to lick out his food bowl before switching to the kibble. Monty was eating a while and then stopped, returning and eating one or two bites more before grooming and walking away.
Cosmo on the other hand was just eating. And eating and eating I was suprised that he could eat this much without throwing up.
I thought he would never stop. He switched between his bowl and Monty's two times and I refilled both bowl with one little scoop (like 15g each) and finally he walked away, confused. He came back a few time just to check if the food was still there.

Just hoping he doesn't throw up tonight and I will be able to fill the bowl up and be good.
Bummer the changes didn't work. :(

Monty did really well with the free feeding.

Maybe the novelty of the food was the reason for Cosmo? Are you surprised he responded like that? (Eating a lot). It is good he came back and then didn't continue eating so fingers crossed it was just the novelty of it.

I hope he doesn't throw up. But sometimes they do learn from it.

Let us know how it goes. Thank you for the update.

Stay safe from Covid.
 
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