Cat Intro Gone Bad?

Alldara

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It's very likely that it's stress related and easily solved. I think cats usually pee 3 or 4 times a day on average. Pooing can be as frequent as twice per day and infrequent as once every 3 days and still be normal for your cat. But when stressed they can hold it longer. You can add some extra water to the food while waiting for an appointment to help her out.
 
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Glamkitty

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The vet reported that she is not constipated and her bladder is normal. This is good news.

The bad news is that I need to either get her past the fear/dislike of the new cat and/or get him to stop stalking/bullying. I realize that this is probably a combination of time and redirecting him when I see the behavior happen.

Meanwhile, it kills me to think I am the one who created this situation...so sad for both cats...
 

Furballsmom

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Whew!
her bladder is normal.
They got some urine to test?

How much are you interacting with L? Can you redirect him? Use a wand toy to distract him, throw toys, that sort of thing.

For her to build her confidence love on her, play with her, give her high spaces to relax in. There seem to be dynamics occurring beyond just the cats, and you've already been thinking about that --where you seem to be a point of contention. Your calico may not want to share you, so if you can, help her to see that you love her just as much and even more now.

Play with L too, and play with them together if that's possible.
 
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pearl99

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Meanwhile, it kills me to think I am the one who created this situation...so sad for both cats...
Oh my this is so me. I brought in Gracie and Ziggy when I had the other two.
I don't have advice to add because it's all excellent, but just saying that it took a year for Ziggy to be integrated (I've had her since March of 2020 at age 13 years) and she is now 16 years old as of August of this year. Waffles is 8 years, and Mooshoo is 4 years.
I adopted Gracie when she was 12 years old, in November of 2019. She is now 15 years.
I've had the thoughts too of "what have I done?????"
Two of them play and have a good time. The rest tolerate and hiss if one gets too close (🎶don't stand...don't stand...don't stand so close to me...🎶)
There are no fights, just hisses and growls. And that is the best it's going to be, and it's okay.
Anyway, my message is this can take time, and they may not be buddies, but you are giving a good home to them and lots of love. It's work, but since November of 2019 I've had this, and the other day Ziggy, Waffles, and Mooshoo were sitting and laying within 2 feet of each other and they were all fine. Gracie rules my couch and my bed. And they are all happy as they can be in this situation, it's like siblings who may not like each other but they have a good, safe, loving home, food and warmth and that counts for a lot.
Time and patience are on your side. It's all cat behavior.
 

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Also have a look at Jackson Galaxy's YouTube videos. He has a lot of really good advice and is well worth watching. Given time, as I said before they'll either become best friends or at least tolerate each other. Remember if you are feeling stressed, the cats will very quickly pick up on that. Cats and dogs are very quick to pick up on how we feel hence if you're not feeling well they'll cuddle up to you and purr.

If it's any consolation I'm going to be introducing Oscar to the rest of my cats later in the week. He's just had his neuter and also had a sore paw so I'm giving him time to heal. He was a stray my neighbour was feeding for the past 2 years but we couldn't catch him. My neighbour was evicted from the house he rented from his brother (nasty) so I'm looking after his cat until he gets a place of his own again. Oscar started coming to me for food and turned up earlier in the week holding his paw up. My adult son enticed him into the house with some treats and quickly closed the door. Took 2 years but we finally got him. He is now part of our family. I fully expect a lot of hissing and growling, probably some fighting but that's what cats do until they accept the newcomer.
 
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Glamkitty

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Sorry for the delayed response to everyone...you have all been so helpful and supportive.

One of the reasons for my disappeance is that we were on vacation, which, we used as an opportunity for complete separation of P & L. We boarded L and had our cat sitter come in for P. When we got home we did a complete reintroduction where they were separated and trading spaces for five days. By the fourth day they were sitting on each other's beds and hang-out spots which I would like to interpret as getting used to each other but is more likely attempting to assert dominance (?). During this period we also did treat exchanges through a slightly cracked door...these went well.

We decided to move to the next step last night which was letting them out together. Neither cat is into laser dots or feather toys when the other is out so we tossed treats (thank God for Greenies!) to each of them for a while. This went well and we resumed their separation.

This morning, we fed them breakfast together (P eats on the counter and L eats on the floor) and all was well. After breakfast we let them interact a bit and L immediately went into bully mode trying to chase P. We separated them again.

We are still going through litterbox issues. P refuses to use any of the five we have in the basement (L only uses two of them as the other three are ones that only P can access). P will only use the one we set up in a separate room under extreme duress (she is only peeing every few days and she pooped for the first time in four days last night...yes...we have taken her to the vet and she has no infections or health issues.

I did move P's poop from the box she will use to one of her basement boxes in an attempt to let her know it's hers. I am not sure if this was brilliant or incredibly stupid. I just desperate to get her to resume her normal toilet.

I want to keep L but if P's litterbbox issues persist I am worried she will get sick. Also, I have no idea how to get him to stop bullying her. I can't throw treats at them everytime they are out together. I can do the separation thing and slow intro for a while but I can't do this for the duration of either cat's time on earth.

Is there any hope?
 

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I am not sure if this was brilliant
It was, very much so and I hope that it helps P. How well is she eating and drinking?

I can do the separation thing and slow intro for a while
Has this decreased the bullying behavior (probably just from lack of opportunity?) and changed his attitude?

It would be awesome if P would gain more confidence - love on her lots, love on them both lots so he doesn't get jealous, play with them separately and together if possible. I think I recall that Jackson Galaxy might have a video about helping a cat to become more confident.

I apologize I don't remember if I mentioned it, but would Cat Music help her relax somewhat?
 
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Glamkitty

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Thank you for your response.

Both cats are eating a little less than normal and drinking quite a bit.

The relocated poop doesn't seem to have made an impact. P has not peed in a while and doesn't seem interested in the box with her poop in it. Incidentally, the cat sitter reported daily pee and every other day poop (which is getting closer to her normal schedule) while we were away and she had the run of the house.

The separation/slow intro has not decreased the bullying. In fact it seems a bit worse than it was before the reintroduction.

I have been playing cat music nearly constantly since last Sunday. I can understand how it's soothing to cats. It's driving me bonkers but I can listen to my music in the car...
 

Furballsmom

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while we were away and she had the run of the house.
Can you set up something similar for her now, where she's contained only a little part of the time and he's separated from her in his own space with his own things? This will help her to feel as though the house/her territory is hers and consequently her confidence should increase, and hopefully you see the same litterbox results that the cat sitter did.
 
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Glamkitty

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That is the setup now. I switch them between spaces where each has full run of the house at different points in the day. For example, P is currently out and about and L is in a large and comfortable room with his own bed. Later, I will switch them so L can roam and she is in the room her formerly occupied.

They are each perfectly fine when the other is locked away. P hangs out with us and resumes most of her normal behavior when L is not out. Since L is new we are not sure what his normal behavior is but he seems to be pretty chill when it's just us.

They each let us ply them with affection when it's just one cat...
 

Furballsmom

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There must have been something, maybe time of being in the main part of the house? .. .. that was different enough when the cat sitter was there for her to be comfortable in using her boxes .. ..
 

Furballsmom

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Later, I will switch them so L can roam and she is in the room her formerly occupied.
Sorry for the doublepost, but maybe it's this, you put her in the room he was in?

What if you put her in a room of her own? I know, scent swapping is intended to be part of the deal, but in this case she needs something, or less of something, in order to feel confident enough to use her litterboxes more frequently and not hold it.
 
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Glamkitty

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Sorry for the confusion...

The litterbox P always used and was using while we were away are the same except there are now five of them (two that anyone can use and three that only P can access). They are in the basement. The only difference between her using them and not is she used them when L was away and refuses to use them when L is here.

The one box P will use when he is here is in a separate room that we don't allow L to access, however, she will only use it if L is in the house when P can't hold it in any longer.

Regarding the room swapping...I am swapping the two them between the basement and the rest of the house. Sometimes, I let one of them have the run of the house and the basement while the other is in what used to be a patio but is no an enclosed room. It's large and where we spend most of our time in the evenings.

When I put L in a smaller room he cries incessantly. When I put P in one she sits by the door until she is let out.

What am I doing wrong?
 

Furballsmom

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Sorry for the confusion...
Not you, the confusion was on my part - I didn't catch the fact that you'd boarded L while you-all were on vacation.
I apologize.

However, when I got home I happily discovered that his depiction was quite accurate. P and L were getting along with minimal friction. They were eating together, using the same set of litterboxes and generally getting along. P hissed at L once or twice but they were minor expressions compared to what had been going on.
Going back in time a bit, I have a question. Does your partner not pay a lot of attention to the cats, ie; isn't focused on them and just goes about his/her day? This isn't good or bad, it just is, but I've been wondering why she was so different when you were away.

I've read on the site where some members have basically given one cat a part of their house, and the other cat has the other part of the house, on a permanent basis. I don't know your layout well enough, but would that be something feasible here - the big question of course being would she accept an arrangement like this?
 
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Glamkitty

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My Partner does pay attention at the start but tends to drift away which is why, in com bination with him not wanting me to worry while I was away, i thought he might have painted a rosier picture than what was actually happening. Also, and in support of his experience, I arrived home on a Wednesday night and P&L generally got along until Sunday. We left them alone in the house while we ran errands and they were both out at night. That Sunday is when it all went to hell for real.

So you know, my Partner is also of the opinion that if we just let throw them together and let them interact "water will find it's level," which is part of what has made this whole thing a challenge. It also led to L eliminating outside of the box and peeing on P's bed. With this in mind, my Partner has agreed to follow my lead on this reintroduction and so far, he has.

Technically, I can continue the separate living quarters for each cat indefinitely, however, I am not willing to live that way. The switching back and forth is exhausting and disruptive to both my well being and my career. I have taken hours each day away from work to pay attention, groom, play, monitor, etc and it's something that I can't keep up.
 

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I was envisioning the scenario without switching them back and forth between the two areas, but really, at this point things are more or less ok except for her litterbox usage, is that right?

Did something happen while you were gone running errands that day, or were they still ok with each other when you got back from running errands? In other words, ether when you were gone or overnight, did L maybe see a cat outside and he took out some frustration over that on her? I dunno, maybe it doesn't matter in the long and short of it, you're just trying to work with what's going on now.

I'm going to ask one of my compatriots to read through your thread and maybe see what I'm missing.
 
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Glamkitty

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Anything could have happened while we were out or at night while we were asleep. We have some windows that are impossible to close off with window coverings.

P's litterbox issue is the main thing and now that I have tried to do short, face-to-face intros using treats, L is back to bullying and P is back to hissing.
 
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Glamkitty

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This is the scene as if a few seconds ago. If I take the Greenies away either he (orange) will bully or she (Calico...onviously) will hiss.
Anything could have happened while we were out or at night while we were asleep. We have some windows that are impossible to close off with window coverings.

P's litterbox issue is the main thing and now that I have tried to do short, face-to-face intros using treats, L is back to bullying and P is back to hissing.
 

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Furballsmom

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Granted she's a calico and practically predisposed to "this is my world and you-all just live here", so that's not too bad, but I so wish L would relax and be a gentleman about things!

They're both gorgeous cats! That proximity is amazing to me - I SO wish I could get at why she's having litterbox issues.

This quote is from vcahospitals regarding redirected aggression, if in fact that's what happened while you were gone or that night, and for whatever reason L got upset about something, then got upset with P which has caused her to be anxious.

"The cats are separated except when they are distracted, occupied, and engaged in an enjoyable act (feeding or playing). The goal is to make sure that good things are associated with the presence of the other cat. It may be helpful to switch litter pans between the cats. Another technique is to rub the cats with towels and switch the towels from one to the other, mixing their scents."

I have tried to do short, face-to-face intros using treats,
In other words, I think you're on the right track, allowing them to have treats, which they enjoy, while they're together.

my Partner is also of the opinion that if we just let throw them together and let them interact "water will find it's level,"
This article further indicates that putting them together would not be good;
Redirected Aggression in Cats: Recognition and Treatment Strategies | IAABC Cat Blog

By the way, have you tried different litters? Including one that's called Cat Attract?
 
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