Cat having diarrhea, Fortiflora helped then made it worse!

[jersharocks]

Contessa started has been having soft stool for awhile. I took in a VERY fresh stool sample (like I put it in a bag 2 seconds after she pooped and ran it over the to vet lol) a couple weeks ago and they found no parasites. Our vet can't get us in for weeks so we decided to try Fortiflora. At first, it worked amazingly. Her stool was perfectly firm and perfectly sized and she seemed super happy. Then a couple days ago, she had a bowel movement where it was part normal and part liquid. Then yesterday she had diarrhea about 3 times and she's had diarrhea again this morning. One of the bowel movements last night had a bit of mucus but other than that, I haven't seen anything scary like blood. It's a normal color but very liquidy.

I'm guessing I should stop giving her Fortiflora at this point? I'm thinking about trying S. Boulardii to see if that helps.

I've had Contessa and her "sister" (unrelated but they're besties who have lived together for nearly their entire lives) Juliet since November 2020 and they've both had intermittent digestive issues that entire time. Sometimes it's diarrhea, sometimes it's constipation, sometimes it's vomiting. They've between tested for parasites several times and nothing has been found. I don't know if it's likely that 2 cats who are unrelated could both have IBD but it kind of seems like it.

I'm also going to try to find a new food for them again. They are currently eating Friskies Prime Filets Turkey Dinner and Sheba Perfect Portions Cuts Turkey and Chicken because it is so difficult to find anything that they both will agree to eat (Juliet is extremely picky, Contessa will eat anything) so I have fallen back on "bad" foods again. I do NOT want to feed raw because I am immunocompromised. I might try Rawz again but it's so expensive and Juliet often turns her nose up at it after a couple days of feeding it.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. How old are your cats? I doubt the FortiFlora helped, given it really only contains one strain of 'good' bacteria - it mostly works as a food enhancer. But certainly, try the S. bourlardii - much better in terms of a probiotic.

You might also have a full fecal PCR done, which also looks for viral/bacterial issues in addition to various parasites.

 

[jersharocks]

Hi. How old are your cats? I doubt the FortiFlora helped, given it really only contains one strain of 'good' bacteria - it mostly works as a food enhancer. But certainly, try the S. bourlardii - much better in terms of a probiotic.

You might also have a full fecal PCR done, which also looks for viral/bacterial issues in addition to various parasites.

The rescue said they were around 5 years old. We've had them for 2 years so I assume around 7 now.

It definitely felt like the Fortiflora helped because the difference was stark. Like she was having very sticky, mushy poops (5, trending towards 6 on this fecal scoring chart) and the next day they were ideal poops (2 on fecal scoring chart). I guess it could have been dumb luck though lol.

Do you know if a PCR will require a vet visit or is it something I can just drop off a sample for? If it's a drop off a sample thing, I'll definitely call on Monday and get that set up.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Do you know if a PCR will require a vet visit or is it something I can just drop off a sample for? If it's a drop off a sample thing, I'll definitely call on Monday and get that set up.

I think it can be done with a drop off - but, given every vet is different just call them ahead of time and ask. Also, ask what all their version of the PCR panel covers, that seems to vary among vets/labs as well.

 

[jersharocks]

I think it can be done with a drop off - but, given every vet is different just call them ahead of time and ask. Also, ask what all their version of the PCR panel covers, that seems to vary among vets/labs as well.

Thanks! I really wish the vet could see her but the vet shortage is hitting hard around here. Hopefully we can get things under control at home.

 

[Margot Lane]

I was trying Fortiflora just before I found out my cat had IBS. Not saying by any means yours does, but I had the same results as you: at first it worked great, then it didn’t. I wonder too if there is some allergen in FF cats react to.

 

[jersharocks]

My husband brought both cats to the vet today since Juliet started having some issues too. The vet gave him a list of what their PCR test covers, is there anything missing from there that we need to test for? If not, I think we're going to try that.

Campylobacter coli, Campylobacter jejuni, Clostridium perfringens alpha toxin (CPA) gene Quant, Clostridium perfringens enterotoxin (CPE) gene Quant, Cryptosporidium spp., feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline panleukopenia virus, Giardia spp., Salmonella spp., Toxoplasma gondii, and Tritrichomonas blagburni (formerly foetus) RealPCR™ tests; fecal ova and parasites; hookworm, roundworm and whipworm antigen immunoassays. Includes quantification of Clostridium perfringens enterotoxin (CPA and CPE) genes if PCR positive.

 

[fionasmom]

This is a respectable PCR test and I would let the vet run it if you are leaning in that direction.

 

[jersharocks]

This is a respectable PCR test and I would let the vet run it if you are leaning in that direction.

Thank you, definitely going to get this test run.

 

[fionasmom]

Let us know if you get any helpful information from it.

 

[daftcat75]

In the meantime, I definitely recommend the s boulardii. It excels at diarrhea like maybe no other probiotic. If you can get her through this without an antibiotic (e.g. metronidazole), her gut will be so much happier for it. There is some research showing a correlation (correlation doesn’t necessarily translate into causality) between antibiotic use and IBD. Probably because IBD is more and more thought to be an imbalance of the gut microbiome and antibiotics kill off both harmful and beneficial gut strains. S boulardii on the other hand starves out some harmful strains and provides more favorable conditions for some beneficial strains to flourish. If that PCR comes back with clostridium or E. coli, you definitely want s boulardii.

My Cat Has Diarrhea - What Do I Do?

Jarrow Formulas Saccharomyces Boulardii + MOS - 5 Billion Viable Organisms Per Serving - 180 Delayed Release Veggie Caps - Probiotic + Prebiotic - Intestinal Tract Support - Up to 180 Servings https://a.co/d/81004II

 

[jersharocks]

Let us know if you get any helpful information from it.

In the meantime, I definitely recommend the s boulardii. It excels at diarrhea like maybe no other probiotic. If you can get her through this without an antibiotic (e.g. metronidazole), her gut will be so much happier for it. There is some research showing a correlation (correlation doesn’t necessarily translate into causality) between antibiotic use and IBD. Probably because IBD is more and more thought to be an imbalance of the gut microbiome and antibiotics kill off both harmful and beneficial gut strains. S boulardii on the other hand starves out some harmful strains and provides more favorable conditions for some beneficial strains to flourish. If that PCR comes back with clostridium or E. coli, you definitely want s boulardii.

My Cat Has Diarrhea - What Do I Do?

Jarrow Formulas Saccharomyces Boulardii + MOS - 5 Billion Viable Organisms Per Serving - 180 Delayed Release Veggie Caps - Probiotic + Prebiotic - Intestinal Tract Support - Up to 180 Servings https://a.co/d/81004II

We got the results back. Both cats tested positive for bacteria in their stool. Of course they called my husband who was working at the time and he didn't have the chance to write down the name of the bacteria but I'm guessing it's clostridium and he said "that sounds right." (super helpful sweetie lol)

They had given us antibiotics at the appointment but said to hold off on giving them until we got results. So now they want us to do antibiotics.

We've been transitioning to a prescription diet (Hill's I/D) since their appointment and things have improved considerably. Both cats have had solid stool (maybe even leaning a bit towards constipation) but Juliet threw up twice after feeding the stew variety of the canned food. She does fine on the pate style though.

So now I need to decide whether we want to stay on the prescription diet. And I guess we should do the antibiotics and get some S. boulardii to give between doses.

 

[daftcat75]

I would get the s boulardii and see if you can get them through this without the antibiotics. Antibiotics kill off beneficial bacteria opening the door for harmful bacteria (such as E. coli) to flourish. S boulardii will be more effective anyway as it starves out E. coli and clostridium allowing the more beneficial strains to flourish. Whether you give the antibiotics or not, you should absolutely give the s boulardii as that will be protective to some degree against the worst effects of the antibiotics.

 

[jersharocks]

I would get the s boulardii and see if you can get them through this without the antibiotics. Antibiotics kill off beneficial bacteria opening the door for harmful bacteria (such as E. coli) to flourish. S boulardii will be more effective anyway as it starves out E. coli and clostridium allowing the more beneficial strains to flourish. Whether you give the antibiotics or not, you should absolutely give the s boulardii as that will be protective to some degree against the worst effects of the antibiotics.

How would I tell if they were through it? Their new food has firmed up their stool so they aren't having diarrhea right now. I guess we could do another PCR test to verify? But then if it comes back with it again we'll have to do the antibiotics anyway and maybe even another PCR to verify. Ugh, I wish I had tried S. boulardii weeks ago.

 

[daftcat75]

How would I tell if they were through it? Their new food has firmed up their stool so they aren't having diarrhea right now. I guess we could do another PCR test to verify? But then if it comes back with it again we'll have to do the antibiotics anyway and maybe even another PCR to verify. Ugh, I wish I had tried S. boulardii weeks ago.

If you have already given them the antibiotics, give them the s. boulardii for a month or two to help correct for the negative effects of the antibiotics.

Here's some more information on s. boulardii (about halfway into the page.)
My Cat Has Diarrhea - What Do I Do?

If they aren't having butt or gut issues, they are probably through it by now. My last cat, Krista, had clostridium and she was pooping puddles for a month or two. When I felt like we finally had a handle on it (a whole lot of s. boulardii later), I brought in a solid sample for testing and the doc said, "let me save you a few hundred dollars and tell you that if she was still having a clostridium problem, her sample wouldn't look like that." It's possible they'll test positive for clostridium the next PCR. But it's really how much they have and whether it's actively producing the toxin that determines if it's problematic. I'm honestly not sure if they are testing for the toxin. I think they do. But that's a question for your vet: e.g. do they need follow up testing or is symptom-free good enough?

 

[jersharocks]

If you have already given them the antibiotics, give them the s. boulardii for a month or two to help correct for the negative effects of the antibiotics.

Here's some more information on s. boulardii (about halfway into the page.)
My Cat Has Diarrhea - What Do I Do?

If they aren't having butt or gut issues, they are probably through it by now. My last cat, Krista, had clostridium and she was pooping puddles for a month or two. When I felt like we finally had a handle on it (a whole lot of s. boulardii later), I brought in a solid sample for testing and the doc said, "let me save you a few hundred dollars and tell you that if she was still having a clostridium problem, her sample wouldn't look like that." It's possible they'll test positive for clostridium the next PCR. But it's really how much they have and whether it's actively producing the toxin that determines if it's problematic. I'm honestly not sure if they are testing for the toxin. I think they do. But that's a question for your vet: e.g. do they need follow up testing or is symptom-free good enough?

Thank you! I haven't given them the antibiotics yet and I think I'll hold off until I call the vet and talk to her about it. I think I'll ask that question first. If symptom-free is good enough, I'll hold off on the antibiotics and try the s. boulardii and if the diarrhea gets going again, then we can go from there.

 

[daftcat75]

There's no harm in giving the s. boulardii proactively. If you get the Jarrow brand, simply split one capsule between the both of them, twice a day. If you're lucky, they'll like the taste well enough in their food like my last kitty, Krista. She liked the s. boulardii well enough that I would simply take a couple spoonfuls of food and roll it in the stuff and let her eat the yeasty balls before she got her un-adulterated meals. If they like squeeze treats like Churu, you can mix the stuff with that too. Otherwise, you could get size four gelatin capsules off Amazon and a size four capsule filling machine off of Etsy and re-pack the size 3 capsules (smaller numbers means larger capsules) into size 4 capsules. I believe one size four is a little more than half a size three. So that's perfect to give them each one size four capsule twice a day. I use Hills A/D to coat the capsules and drop them on the carpet for Betty. She has learned by now not to bite into the capsules or lick the A/D off them but to simply scoop and swallow.

If your cats are easy enough to pill (or you can get them to pill themselves like my Betty), then you may want to look into gut health testing and the Gut Restore Supplement from AnimalBiome. Their Gut Maintenance Plus (GMP) product is a s. boulardii plus an extra ingredient to reduce harmful populations of e. coli. Their GMP can be opened into their food. Their Gut Restore Supplement cannot. It has to be given whole because the capsule coating will ensure its contents survive the acidic environment of the stomach. That's why I always preface this recommendation with, "your cats need to be pillable or pill themselves." Also, theirs poop from healthy donor cats in those pills. Your cats will not appreciate the contents in their food. Betty biting into a poop pill one too many times is probably what taught her to scoop and swallow these days.

KittyBiome

 

[Astragal14]

Contessa started has been having soft stool for awhile...
I've had Contessa and her "sister" Juliet since November 2020 and they've both had intermittent digestive issues that entire time...
I don't know if it's likely that 2 cats who are unrelated could both have IBD but it kind of seems like it.

There are some additional, and easy, steps you can take to help clear this up. Two years of intermittent issues leads to a build up of GI tract inflammation and a reduced ability to absorb B12 (cobalamin). The intestines become too compromised to absorb medication and supplements and the result is a perpetuating cycle of symptoms. GI issues can't respond to treatment until you've controlled inflammation and increased their B12 and maybe B9 (folate) levels.

So right now, you want to manage the inflammation and administer B12 injections, in addition to the S.Boulardii recommended by daftcat75 (the Jarrow brand and the Animal Biome GMP are both great products, I'm not familiar with the Gut Restore).

...chronically inflamed intestines lose the ability to absorb fat. Unabsorbed fat in the intestine stimulates diarrhea by osmotically drawing water into the lumen and by fostering an environment for the bacterial toxins.

Low cobalamin and folate concentrations are indicative of severe diffuse disease, and this will limit the efficacy of oral therapy for IIBD. Supplement with cobalamin and folate before instituting therapy.

Ixnay on the IBD: An update on handling patients with chronic enteropathies

Fish oil is a great addition to their diet and will help manage their inflammation but it takes up to 6 weeks for the full effect. You can also discuss other anti-inflammatory/prescription options with your vet if they think Contessa and Juliet need something stronger to kick start the healing process.

B12 injections can be administered by the vet or by you at home (if you're comfortable with that). Your vet will recommend the most appropriate dosing schedule; a typical routine starts with weekly or biweekly injections for a period of time, and then tapering off to monthly for a period of time. B12 is inexpensive and has virtually no side effects and will help considerably.

The Hill's i/d does a great job of stopping diarrhea, we've used similar foods for our cats during acute cases of diarrhea. It definitely alleviates the symptoms but I don't know how well it actually treats the cause. One option is to keep it in their diet until the other avenues have had time to take effect (fish oil/anti-inflammatories, B12, S. Boulardii, etc) - maybe 6-8 weeks and then reassess how they're both doing. At that point in time, you can discuss the next steps with your vet - whether you should start the antibiotic, continue the full routine a little longer, or begin removing components to see if their symptoms return.

 

[krystina1994]

This sounds essactly what is going on with my cat and the pickiness aswell.... fortify also did not help my cat he got worse. Antibiotic worked the first 2 days than back to diareahha.

My cat also gets some blood and mucus aswell. Its been going on years. He just turned 6 this fall/winter.

I have done Fecal testing every year. Recently it got so bad that this new year I've done 2 Fecal tests 1 with the PCR. I've done blood work with the extra panel,(it was good except high blood cell count like 84%, but the Vet wasn't worried because he had blood in stool 2 weeks prior to the blood test) abdominal check, bum check, temperature etc...fine.

We attempted elimination diet (my cat was stressed out so I stopped trying) My vet said he doesnt know why so booked appointment with a specialist (just to see what they say).

I've also been giving him the kitty biome S.Boulifard, on and off for 1 year now, it does help but if given to much Constipated. With animal Biome I have tried the poop pills and purchased a Gut test (his gut test prior looked good apparently according to the vet.) The pills made his poop stink so bad. In the end it did not fully cure him.

Trying to stick to 1 wet food for a month (wellness salmon in gravies- he is picky but loves this), but it was causing more Diareahha. After the doing everything i was desperate so did the antibiotics metronidazole,-horrible.

After that did not work and pills finished. I bought a limited ingredient dry kibble (first mate duck and blueberry) with the Gut Soothe by Adored Beast. This instantly worked amazing along with the Kitty Biome S boulevard. Firm stools but now still having really foul smelling after eating.
I figured the wet food may be causing so
I tried slowly switching to N&D limited diet Quinoa and Quail, it was going okay but his poop isn't as good now...

I've Givin up the N&D now.
I eaither keep him on adored beast and endure the gas and maybe try the leaky gut protocal from adored beast, try adding B12 as suggested^^ and wait for the specialist appointment in April 2024.

I believe he has leaky gut.

He also just got a fatty lipoma on his upper thigh, I believe it's toxins I want to help my cat I feel I owe it to him. :/

 

[krystina1994]

Sorry about my spelling I am trying to hurry. If anyone has any suggestions let me know please . I am interested in the vitamins. Wondering if it's okay to give gut sooth with kitty biome S.B and F