cat giving off an "attack me!!!" vibe?!?

[julia123123]

When we lost our older cat to cancer in February, we adopted 1 1/2 y.o. male as a companion cat for our 10 y.o. female. Within a week, he was aggressively jumping on her/rolling her/biting her. We tried for a month to distract him/wear him out with toys/keep them as separate as possible, but the attacking got too bad and we had to return him.

We tried again with another 1 1/2 y.o. male, who proceeded to do nearly the exact same thing and, after a month of her being terrorized, another depressing return.

We tried ONE MORE TIME with an older, smaller female...half the size of our girl, and declawed by a former owner. We've had her for about 3 weeks. Of course our resident grump has been hissing and growling, but she's a chicken at heart and never actually attacks. The past few days, our completely placid and sweet new adoptee has started chasing and jumping on our older girl! She can't do much damage with her small size and no claws, but our resident grump is terrified and cowering upstairs. We've got them separated...again.

Is our cat just "giving off the vibe" and has the "personality" (super hissy/growly but all bluff and would never jump on another cat because she's secretly a chicken) to be bullied? My husband and I haven't given up on the sweet girl that we've adopted, but are concerned that she's started being aggressive. We don't mind if they growl/hiss at each other for the next decade, but chasing/jumping is a big worry. It's definitely not in play, either. Our sweet adoptee was turned into the shelter after her owner died, and was in "the system" for a month before we adopted her. We really like her and want to keep her, but we also don't want to keep her locked up 75% of the time, and don't want our other girl afraid. They don't need to be friends, just live in the same house with no physical attacks.

Any advice for what we could do? We already keep them separated overnight and part of the day...they're only in the same area together in the evening, and that's when the aggression is happening. BOTH cats get loads of attention all day, and neither is interested in catnip/feather wand/toys in general. They're both kind of lazy, sleepy, sweet (to us) cats, but together...ouch. Help!!

 

[ArtNJ]

No, there is no such thing as a cat that has some "attack me" behavior or pherophomes, at least not for spayed/neutered cats. Rather, you adopted two 1 1/2 year old cats -- literally the worst age to pair with a 10 year old, because its the maximum of stupid enthusiasm for play x not taking no for an answer x body weight (which makes them more intimidating to senior cats). So that wasn't even bad luck, it was just normal.

Now the third time, your strategy was correct. However, you might have gotten the wrong impression from a shelter. A lot of times the shelter can't actually tell what a cat's true personality is because being in the shelter changes that. And with the prior owner being deceased, they may not have gotten a thorough report -- and even if they did, adding another cat to the mix can change things. Then, in your home, it took time for the cat to be comfortable. So what you actually adopted was most likely always smaller, older, but still very playful/active cat that won't take no for an answer.

Now it sounds like the smaller one might be growling and hissing now too? Its rare, but sometimes a cat that just wants to play will be enraged by another cat reacting to that with growling and hissing. I had that once, but have only seen a few other posts on it over the years -- its not common. So if that is what is going on, you might indeed finally be having some bad luck. IF thats what is going on, its very tough to deal with. If the smaller cat is not growling and hissing, is it possible you could be misinterpreting over-enthusiastic play as aggression? That is quite common for folks that haven't often had two cats.

What kind of introduction process did you do, for how long at each step, and how did it go?

 

[julia123123]

I just figured, at the time, that 1 1/2 yo males were out of the "kitten" phase and, being neutered, they wouldn't have any interest in our Tabitha...wrong! I've had 2 male cats before and both were completely "middle aged" by the time they were about a year old, lazy and no interest in play.

Our adoptee (Calliope) never growls and only very rarely hisses. When Tabitha is having her hissing/growling fits, Calliope usually just watches and walks away. But lately, she will watch her intently...rush her...hiss at her...watch her for a while, and then chase her upstairs and possibly pounce on her.

Intro: days 1-3: she was in a separate room, cats sniffed (Tabitha hiss) under door, Tabitha fed near door, cats wiped down with towels to get used to each other's scent. Next 1 1/2 weeks: baby gate separates them so that they can see each other but no contact. Tabitha hiss, Calliope unconcerned.

Weeks 2-3 (to now): Calliope kept in separate area overnight. When husband gets up at 8, she is let out to roam house. By this point, Tabitha is usually asleep in her bed upstairs. Calliope roams all day. Sometimes goes upstairs...Tabitha hiss...Calliope ignores, sometimes sleeps on a cat bench there. Tabitha goes back to sleep. Calliope sleeps at some point, but they both wake up and want to be in the living room from 6 p.m. on. Usually Calliope ignores Tabitha, while T hisses/growls, stalks around, and finally settles in at a safe distance with an evil stare. If Tabitha gets too worked up, we put Calliope back in her separate area. Our dog is out then too and Calliope is still uneasy with her, so sometimes she goes back there on her own.

So they sometimes cross (uneasily) during the day, if Tabitha comes down for a snack. Then in the evening. These hissing/rushing attacks have only happened a few times, but all in the last week.

If I see one coming on (Calliope watching Tabitha intently), should I put Calliope up? My thoughts so far: they need to get through this to learn to co-exist. But I work from home and can usually keep an eye on things. I've noticed the signs for potential trouble. Any thoughts?

 

[ArtNJ]

Only true fighting with intent to injure is a problem. The rest they can slowly improve on their own. It doesn't sound like Caliope is a problem at all, being fairly chill overall, just like you were hoping for. 10 year olds can really be scared and stressed by new cats and acting super grumpy with hissing growling and even some swatting is not a big deal. I've never actually had charging and swatting, and understand that can seem scary, but it generally seems to be "get away from me" motivated. If cats want to hurt each other, they roll around and are all over each other. So this sounds like it can improve on its own, albeit probably very slowly.

There are tons of posts here on one to one and half year olds playing with kittens or older cats like demons. Often older cats will moderate their play or take no for an answer at times (for example, I most recently had a 4 year old that allowed the kitten to essentially play on equal terms) but below about 1 1/2, they are often just too stupid enthusiastic about play. It could have worked out with those cats in time, but certainly would have been a long slow road to toleration. You might still have the long slow road, 10 y.o.s are just not very accepting, but you have a better fit and there is hope for a better outcome despite where things stand.

 

[julia123123]

Oh, that's a relief! We haven't given up by any means...just worried that a negative pattern was starting to form. We are definitely smothering both cats with love and the "good" wet food, so they're sleepy and happy most of the time. We are determined to make this stick!

 

[di and bob]

It all sounds normal to me, it took me a year to get everybody able to tolerate each other. Females are very protective of their domain. your older girl and her hissing, growling, charging, etc, is perfectly normal. She is trying to protect her kingdom. Tabitha needs a high-up perch to observe and rule from, a blanket on a table, a cat tree, a bed on the back of a couch would be good. My female spent months in a bed on top of the fridge!
No out-and-out fights with deep scratches and bites is wonderful! I know how frustrating this can be, but these introductions take months, literally, until they begin to accept each other. I would keep them separated at night until they act better in the evenings. I recommend getting two kickeroos, a long cat toy (at pet stores or Amazon, Walmart) keep one in a plastic bag with catnip to be interchanged with each other to keep them fresh, and throw it in front of Calliope to distract her. It gets rid of aggression pretty well, with all the kicking they do.
I really think this just all needs a lot more time, you might look into Bach Rescue Remedy for the aggressor, most likely Tabitha, it really relieves stress. All the luck!

 

[tyleete]

I have 11 rescues ranging in she from 2yrs to 15-ish. Many strays so not 100% sure on age.
But our newest never does that rushing thing. So much a pest, one cat that previously liked being out in the main living area now just chills in our master suite area. She seems happier away from the little monster. But there are still 3 others in the main living area for her. She drives one a little batty with that exact behavior. She'll see get and just RUSH her. She never hurts her, but it always scares the bigger/older one to run away.
After a time, she just learned this is life with that little black cyclone. The older one still runs when the mini one does this, but usually comes right back out. And the monster doesn't seem to do it in meanness. No growling, hissing, claws or teeth involved. She just bum rushes her and runs off when I yell at her. My husband thinks she's actually trying to play since sides never mean about it. She also likes to sneak up on others and pounce out of nowhere. If they run, she'll give chase till they get somewhere and turn around to face her. If they don't run, she usually just walks off.
She's been with us for a year this November. Still doing this. But never hurts anyone.

 

[julia123123]

It all sounds normal to me, it took me a year to get everybody able to tolerate each other. Females are very protective of their domain. your older girl and her hissing, growling, charging, etc, is perfectly normal. She is trying to protect her kingdom. Tabitha needs a high-up perch to observe and rule from, a blanket on a table, a cat tree, a bed on the back of a couch would be good. My female spent months in a bed on top of the fridge!
No out-and-out fights with deep scratches and bites is wonderful! I know how frustrating this can be, but these introductions take months, literally, until they begin to accept each other. I would keep them separated at night until they act better in the evenings. I recommend getting two kickeroos, a long cat toy (at pet stores or Amazon, Walmart) keep one in a plastic bag with catnip to be interchanged with each other to keep them fresh, and throw it in front of Calliope to distract her. It gets rid of aggression pretty well, with all the kicking they do.
I really think this just all needs a lot more time, you might look into Bach Rescue Remedy for the aggressor, most likely Tabitha, it really relieves stress. All the luck!

We can wait out a year, as long as no real aggression starts!

 

[FeebysOwner]

3 weeks is next to nothing especially when dealing with two older cats. Tabitha has already been through quite a number of ordeals this year - sounds like one right after another - which can really take a toll on a 10yo cat. And, you really have no idea what Calliope's history is, but it would seem she, too, has had her share of trauma.

Although, there might not be an actual 'attack me' vibe, cats do sense submissiveness in other cats. There is likely to be a pecking order established - as can be pretty typical in a household with more than one cat. It would seem that Calliope may be trying to establish dominance - perhaps somewhat based on her background? - and Tabitha knows that.

Maybe you can glean some tips from these TCS articles and 'adjust' your approach accordingly?
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction – TheCatSite Articles
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide – TheCatSite Articles

 

[julia123123]

3 weeks is next to nothing especially when dealing with two older cats. Tabitha has already been through quite a number of ordeals this year - sounds like one right after another - which can really take a toll on a 10yo cat. And, you really have no idea what Calliope's history is, but it would seem she, too, has had her share of trauma.

Although, there might not be an actual 'attack me' vibe, cats do sense submissiveness in other cats. There is likely to be a pecking order established - as can be pretty typical in a household with more than one cat. It would seem that Calliope may be trying to establish dominance - perhaps somewhat based on her background? - and Tabitha knows that.

Maybe you can glean some tips from these TCS articles and 'adjust' your approach accordingly?
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction – TheCatSite Articles
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide – TheCatSite Articles

Thanks, I'll check that out! More and more, I'm thinking that Tabitha is fearful. It's funny...we adopted her as a 6 week old kitten from a friend with a "surprise" litter. We already had a 1 1/2 yo male at home. He had always been so gentle, but I was still a little bit nervous when I brought them together. Tabitha, tiny thing that she was, instantly launched at our guy and chased him around the house...and did so for MONTHS, until she calmed down. He let her be the boss. I'd just assumed that she was a natural alpha, but she seems to be a coward at heart!

Some success last night...Calliope fell asleep on the couch and Tabitha came down...no hissing/growling, just creeping around with an eye on "the enemy." She snuggled in my lap and checked out her usual spots. Calliope woke up and watched, no issues. We've decided to have a bit more separation...if there's anything beyond the warning hiss, we'll put Calliope back in her "suite." She's got plenty of rooms, windows, beds, cat hammocks, toys, etc. back there, and we're always back there too, so we think that she won't mind it too much!

 

[di and bob]

It all sounds great, you have a good plan!

 

[danteshuman]

You can build up your victim cat’s confidence by l all other cats out of a room; then giving her 1 on 1 play. You can add in some extra TLC or treats but play is therapy for cats.

I would work on moving your furniture around a bit to try to avoid dead ends (and building up with shelves or cat trees to create a cat super high way, always helps cats get along.)

Interactive toys never hurt. If nothing else they distract! Just rotate them. I keep special interactive toys for rainy/I’m sick days. I put a couple hexabugs or hexabug mice down and let my twerp go nuts. Or I give him a box or jumbo gift bag with tissue paper & toys in it. I have a baseball sized ball that rolls around on it’s own, a floppy fish, a puzzle feeder, a few chirping bird toys & ton of wand toys (the cat dancer is always cheap & popular.) This hexabug set below was my cat’s Christmas gift (below

These are the “minions”. The fluffy one is a girl & she is a bit smaller then her brothers (& fatter! ) Now the boys LOVE to play fight/wrestle and Cami does not. She wants to play tag while the boys keep “attacking” her & want to play thunder dome!!! So hopefully once your two girls get settled they can play “girl” cat rough housing. The reason I included the “fight” pictures was so you could see how cat play can look like a fight. The boys really love each other & are bff. They like Cami to, but she isn’t as fun to play with. & yes we do tell the boys to leave her alone. We distract them with play or give her quiet time in a room without the boys.

 

[danteshuman]

Locking all other cats out of the room to give your victim cat 1 on 1 play.

 

[TardisDance]

I’m on month 3 with cat introductions and my 4 (almost 5) year old female, Sango, is just starting to accept my almost 2 year old male, Kirby. I adopted Kirby in late September and he was a PITA and would non-stop pounce on Sango and/or aggressively groom her, i.e. lick her neck hard and sometimes bite when he finished. I think part of it was hormones (he was just neutered), part territorial, and also that he wanted to play, play, play! Sango is a bit of a coward and wouldn’t even hiss - she‘d just hide. I think she perceived his play as bullying. We nearly returned him, but in the end, we decided to give him a second chance and looked up advice online on how to reform his behavior.

In the beginning of December, my spouse and I started 10 minute timeouts whenever he decided to pounce or swat at Sango, but what really helped was hissing at him. Basically, in cat language, it means “back off.” I think Sango gained confidence in knowing that we had her back. I also gave her tons of one-on-one play sessions with Sango with Kirby being closed in in his room. I had tried playing with them together, but most of the time, it ended up being one of the cats (mostly Kirby) that did the playing while the other cat nervously watched. Or if I try to play with her one-on-one in another room with him out, he’d usually come in and check out what’s going on and she’d stop playing.

Now that it’s a month later, Sango is actually much more a ”bully“ now. She instigates most play now and pounces Kirby and he hides from her when he’s not in the mood. She occasionally swats him if he instigates play (which he rarely does now). He does greet her with grooming but Sango does follow it with a head butt or a cheek rub. Even saw a full body rub today.

We actually just started leaving them out alone together (well, we’re in a different room and watching them on a Wyze web cam) and in a few months, depending on how things go, we’ll let them alone together at night. For now, he goes in his room at night.

I just wanted to share to give you some hope - cat introductions are so, so difficult and my spouse and I have had so many conversations at night about our frustrations - frankly, had I known how much work would be needed for introductions for 2 adult cats, I probably would have never adopted him. Now I’m just too attached to him.