Carrageenan/agar Agar

[LTS3]

This thread is getting way off topic. Please keep responses related to the OP's question which what the point of gums are in cat food and if you feed foods that contain them.

 

[lifeofreilly]

What's the deal with these ingredients exactly? Though I've done my own research, I am still a bit confused.

Especially because at least one of these two ingredients seems to be in absolutely everything one way or the other. I recently purchased a case of Merrick Purrfect Bistro Turducken for Aslan, and he's a big fan, but I did find out it has carrageenan in it and now I want to to throw the whole 30 dollar case away.

Which one is worse in your opinion, because I doubt I'll be able to avoid both and stay in budget/what he'll actually eat

None of the foods in his main rotation have carrageenan or (or do they? Nutro Cuts in Gravy, Tiki Cat After Dark, Wellness pate, Weruva CITK cans and pouches, FF classic pate poultry pack) but some of them do have agar agar.

I usually add in a new flavor every month and I was thinking of swapping the Purrfect Bistro flavors...but not if they're bad for him. Not at that price!

Thanks guys, for explaining why you either do/don't avoid these ingredients.

I adopted my cat at age 2-3 and he’s dealt with myriad stomach issues since I’ve had him. I do not allow him food with anything like gums, agar agar, carrageenan. He eats Instinct LID pretty much exclusively. Hella expensive, especially the more novel proteins, but very pure food.

 

[Gremlin's Guesthouse]

What's the deal with these ingredients exactly? Though I've done my own research, I am still a bit confused.

Especially because at least one of these two ingredients seems to be in absolutely everything one way or the other. I recently purchased a case of Merrick Purrfect Bistro Turducken for Aslan, and he's a big fan, but I did find out it has carrageenan in it and now I want to to throw the whole 30 dollar case away.

Which one is worse in your opinion, because I doubt I'll be able to avoid both and stay in budget/what he'll actually eat

None of the foods in his main rotation have carrageenan or (or do they? Nutro Cuts in Gravy, Tiki Cat After Dark, Wellness pate, Weruva CITK cans and pouches, FF classic pate poultry pack) but some of them do have agar agar.

I usually add in a new flavor every month and I was thinking of swapping the Purrfect Bistro flavors...but not if they're bad for him. Not at that price!

Thanks guys, for explaining why you either do/don't avoid these ingredients.

Hi, Rini. I have spent many, many hours researching cat food ingredients. OMG, the garbage that goes into pet food - even the more expensive and supposedly more nutritious foods.

A very good article, entitled "Why Carrageenan Can Be Dangerous to your Pet" can be found on the Truth About Pet Food website.

The answer to carrageenan is NO-NO-NO! There is enough reputable scientific evidence to promote/confirm that all carrageenan is at best a GI irritant, and at worst a carcinogen. Apparently, carrageenan in cat food can be found under several different names: Algas, Algue Rouge Marine, Chondrus crispus, Chondrus Extract, Euchema species, and Irish Moss Algae. Irish Moss seems to be the most commonly referenced source for carrageenan.

To add to the confusion, I did contact one cat food manufacturer (I do call them) about the "chondrus crispus" ingredient in their food and was told that it was not the same thing as the carrageenan seaweed.

Information on agar has been extremely difficult to find and interpret. I have read that while agar, like carrageenan, is also a red seaweed, it does not possess the same dangers as carrageenan. And, on the other hand, I have read that agar is "full of carrageenan." So, at this time I have no idea what to believe about agar-agar.

This is a serious subject that I will continue to research, and would welcome hearing about anything anyone else has found on the subject.

 

[Gremlin's Guesthouse]

Just found more on Agar at Wiki. Says agar is a polysaccharide, so is carrageenan. From my reading, polysaccharides are not safe for cats. To read more on agar, use search term "is agar a polysaccharide."

 

[darg]

There is a popular health website out there that basically characterizes Agar agar as a healthy gift from the gods while cursing carrageenan as if it came from the depths of hell. I'm sure that people and pets can have problems with either or both. But, the "research" that started the demonization of carrageenan was flawed and that flawed research is still used as the basis for demonizing the stuff. That's not to say that I believe that carrageenan is fine, only to say that much of the internets damnation of carrageenan isn't based on solid evidence.

JMHO

 

[Gremlin's Guesthouse]

So is carrageenan a thickener or for flavor? I do not buy anything with that ingredient which does make food more expensive.

Carrageenan is a thickening and texturizing agent, and gives pate it's smooth appearance. As far as I know, it has no flavor. I doubt it adds any appreciable cost to the food. The pure foods with no additives (carrageenan, gums, etc.) are the ones that appear to be more expensive. Go figure? Kind of like paying the phone company NOT to publish your phone number. One article I read said that testing labs use carrageenan to induce inflammation in lab rats in order to test anti-inflammatory drugs.

 

[Gremlin's Guesthouse]

To me, that's the saddest part of this: cat foods don't need thickeners, be they gums, forms of seaweed, tapioca, potato starch, peas, chickpeas, or whatever else the pet food industry might come up with.


I pass on carrageenan -- for the cats and for us humans, too -- because there's research (in humans) that seems to indicate that it can have an inflammatory effect on the digestive system. It's avoidable, so like Rini, I figure why risk it. Like daftcat75, I buy gelato instead of Ben and Jerry's now. (Or Alden's ice cream sandwiches, they're a great treat.) Ice cream doesn't need carrageenan, and hummus and tortillas don't need gums!

Avoiding gums entirely can certainly be a road to madness and bankruptcy but, like She's a witch, they're part of what led me to change the cats' diet more toward raw and homemade. The one small can a day that the cats split usually has gum(s) but at least they're not getting gums, carrageenan, or other thickeners in all their meals.

To me the real proof that the gums and thickeners aren't necessary in cat food is that the cats' favorite meals are the two kinds of cooked food that I make for them with supplements and the commercial raw food that I buy for them.

Hi, Rini. Could you possibly share your cooked recipe? I have a little feral kitten rescue who came in starved - just under 2# at 5 months old - and diarrhea. I started her on chicken and rice gruel (along with parasite meds), and am now trying to get her back on cat food. She has become quite a picky eater, with intermittent recurrence of the diarrhea, as well as occasional vomiting of kibble. I hope there isn't any permanent GI damage. I'm not having much luck with the cat food, although she did eat some canned food tonight with a bit of mashed rice in it. I'm thinking she might respond better to fresh home cooked meals.

Ruth

 

[darg]

For anyone who is REALLY, interested in the topic. And I mean REALLY. This may be a worthwhile read. But be forewarned, it's a long one ...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2018.1481822

 

[Gremlin's Guesthouse]

For anyone who is REALLY, interested in the topic. And I mean REALLY. This may be a worthwhile read. But be forewarned, it's a long one ...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2018.1481822

Thanks so much. Feeding multiple cats that need variety in their diet, I am constantly looking for alternatives for when they go off of whatever their current favorite is (which is usually right after I buy $200 worth of the stuff they can't get enough of). Choices for 'clean' food are quite limited, and I've had to settle for '2nd choice' foods that have some additives. I understand that not everything on the web is accurate. However, having read that agar is not the same as carrageenan, and although an unnecessary ingredient, is not dangerous to cats, I went ahead and purchased 8 cases of a new food they like which contains agar-agar. I then, of course, found more information on agar that contradicts the claims of safety. So, yes, I am REALLY interested in this topic and I will take the time to read.