Can Closed Mouth Hyper Ventilation Indicate Hyper Thyroid?

[deeebeeee]

I'm a new member, glad to be here. Question: Can rapid breathing while at rest indicate Hyper Thyroid? I've recently noticed that my 12 y.o. cat Cookie has closed mouth rapid breathing while resting. Earlier this year, she'd been unintentionally exposed to Peppermint Oil Spray (for mice) which resulted in a significant loss of weight, throwing up. When we went to the vet at this time, her Free T4 was one point over the max and had increased a great deal since Nov. 2019. Vet is positive it's Hyper T. Back this coming Friday for a retest of Free T4.

I wonder if it's always the case that rapid breathing with a closed mouth indicates a medical condition (including thyroid issues)? I also wonder if Peppermint Oil can negatively affect a cat's thyroid?

Thanks!!!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. Sorry no one has responded to your post yet. Has Cookie's appetite increased? That is one of the most common signs of hyperthyroidism. Any other signs, such as: restlessness/nervousness, more vocal, stumbling or weakness, unkempt/matted coat, diarrhea, and excessive thirst and urination?

If Cookie was exposed to enough peppermint oil, it is possible she could have effects from that, but it likely would have had to be a significant amount for long lasting issues. I believe for ingesting the oil the most common ill effects are to the gastrointestinal system, central nervous system, and/or liver. Inhaling an excessive amount could possibly lead to aspiration pneumonia. Did you mention this to the vet when you took Cookie to see them last time?

Because of other issues that can mimic hyperthyroidism, I hope that your vet decides to go full scale with testing, specifically a full spectrum blood work up and evaluation of things like kidney disease, heart disease, and high blood pressure. That is, assuming, they didn't already do so.

Hopefully, other members will come along soon and offer some first hand experiences!!

 

[deeebeeee]

Hi -- Thanks so much for your response. Peppermint Oil Spray remained in corners for quite awhile. Cookie's appetite increased after I cleaned up Peppermint Oil and she also regained most of the weight she'd lost. She'd lost 1.25 lbs. of her normal weight (10-11lbs). I heard that hyper T cats have increased appetite and loss of weight. Not the case here, but ...

Always high strung and ALWAYS very vocal as was her brother Timmy. I've had her since she was 2 1/2. The upset to her digestive system (throw ups) has disappeared completely since removal of Peppermint Oil. Her prior Free T4 values were normal.

The vet knows about the Peppermint Oil, but thinks it is not affecting her increased Free T4. He did a complete blood test and workup. Her albumin and cholesterol were high but nothing else except Free T4.

She gets horribly freaked out at the vet, has tachycardia, open mouth panting. Going back this Friday for weight check and another test of her Free T4.

Thanks very much.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Cookie is very pretty!!! Have you ever tried any of the calming products before taking her to the vet? Bach Rescue Remedy, which are drops you can rub into a cat's ears, has been successful for some. Feliway sprays inside the carrier have also worked for others. If either of these wouldn't help, there are others on the market that you could research online and try them.

Good luck at the vets, and keep us posted!!

 

[deeebeeee]

Cookie thanks you and I agree. Oh yes, tried a multitude of those so called calming products -- Feliway, Bach, Jackson Galaxy's. Zero help. I don't have the money to try more. Will definitely let you know when I get the results of the 2nd Free T4. Last test about a month ago. Thanks!!!

 

[Dimie]

Well with open mouth panting and a heart problem it could more likely be that it is more a problem breathimg and having water in her lungs if there is also coughing from tim to time especially after sleeping make sure to tell the vets about the open mouth panting, an other way to check it is to see her breathing in general and compair it to her brother. At the moment my own cat is having heart problems and gets water in his lungs and open mouth panting is one of the things he did before getting medication to treat it. Will say she is very pretty, hope all the best and maybe it helped abit.

 

[white shadow]

.
Hi deebeeee and welcome to the forum !

She gets horribly freaked out at the vet, has tachycardia, open mouth panting. Going back this Friday.....

Many folks here have kitties who are extremely anxious/fractious around Vet visits - many use a drug called Gabapentin as a sedative/relaxant and find it very effective. Here's a thread with many peoples' experiences with it: https://thecatsite.com/threads/gabapentin-before-vet-visit.394013/. You'll see that it can be used safely when cardiac issues are involved.

Hoping this could work for you both - let us know.
.

 

[deeebeeee]

Well with open mouth panting and a heart problem it could more likely be that it is more a problem breathimg and having water in her lungs if there is also coughing from tim to time especially after sleeping make sure to tell the vets about the open mouth panting, an other way to check it is to see her breathing in general and compair it to her brother. At the moment my own cat is having heart problems and gets water in his lungs and open mouth panting is one of the things he did before getting medication to treat it. Will say she is very pretty, hope all the best and maybe it helped abit.

Thanks, she is a fun cat as well.
So sorry about your kitty. So he is doing better on meds?
Thanks for the response. Guess we'll see how her new test of Free T4 turns out.

 

[deeebeeee]

.
Hi deebeeee and welcome to the forum !



Many folks here have kitties who are extremely anxious/fractious around Vet visits - many use a drug called Gabapentin as a sedative/relaxant and find it very effective. Here's a thread with many peoples' experiences with it: https://thecatsite.com/threads/gabapentin-before-vet-visit.394013/. You'll see that it can be used safely when cardiac issues are involved.

Hoping this could work for you both - let us know.
.

Thanks for the suggestion. Will check out the Gabapentin. Just don't want to give her anything that might hurt her in any way. Thanks again.

 

[deeebeeee]

Well with open mouth panting and a heart problem it could more likely be that it is more a problem breathimg and having water in her lungs if there is also coughing from tim to time especially after sleeping make sure to tell the vets about the open mouth panting, an other way to check it is to see her breathing in general and compair it to her brother. At the moment my own cat is having heart problems and gets water in his lungs and open mouth panting is one of the things he did before getting medication to treat it. Will say she is very pretty, hope all the best and maybe it helped abit.

She doesn't have open mouthed hyperventilation EXCEPT going to and at the vet.
She has what vet terms "tachycardia" when going to or at the vet's. She gets so upset.
Not sure her regular breathing is a problem, but did notice it seemed she was breathing rapidly at rest with her mouth closed.

Her heart is not enlarged. X-ray showed normal heart. Nothing on the blood test but not sure what measures would indicate heart issues. She never coughs! So I assume no real heart problems.

Thanks again.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Can you count her respirations when she is doing this closed mouth rapid breathing? And, also count them when she is not doing it. See what the difference is, and ask the vet about it. The vet can't really gauge this since she displays a form of tachycardia while she is in the vet's office. Maybe even record it for the vet to watch? Also, if the vet will give you a very small dose of the Gabapentin to use before her next appointment, that might just settle her down enough that the vet would be able to see her at rest breathing first-hand? I think when a vet administers Gabapentin the first time for a calming agent, they generally will use the lowest dose possible.

 

[deeebeeee]

Can you count her respirations when she is doing this closed mouth rapid breathing? And, also count them when she is not doing it. See what the difference is, and ask the vet about it. The vet can't really gauge this since she displays a form of tachycardia while she is in the vet's office. Maybe even record it for the vet to watch? Also, if the vet will give you a very small dose of the Gabapentin to use before her next appointment, that might just settle her down enough that the vet would be able to see her at rest breathing first-hand? I think when a vet administers Gabapentin the first time for a calming agent, they generally will use the lowest dose possible.

I haven't been able to count her respirations, but can try. Yes, I'm going to ask the vet on Friday re Gabapentin, would only want to try the TINIEST dose at first. I think someone mentioned the Bach Flower Remedies. Can it be used inside her ear, vs. in her water or food? I truly hate seeing her so upset and frantic. Thanks so much.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I think someone mentioned the Bach Flower Remedies. Can it be used inside her ear, vs. in her water or food?

I mentioned it earlier in this thread - Bach Rescue Remedy, which is liquid, applied with a dropper. I believe it can be administered via any of the ways you mentioned. I have even heard it can be rubbed into their paws as well. It is something you could test ahead of time at home, but not sure if that would be a 'true' test for when she goes to the vet.

 

[deeebeeee]

I mentioned it earlier in this thread - Bach Rescue Remedy, which is liquid, applied with a dropper. I believe it can be administered via any of the ways you mentioned. I have even heard it can be rubbed into their paws as well. It is something you could test ahead of time at home, but not sure if that would be a 'true' test for when she goes to the vet.

Yes, you did! Sorry I'm all over the place worrying about Cookie, how to calm her, does she have Hyper T, etc. I know - small issues compared to what cat parents are dealing with. There are several Bach remedies for panic, not sure which to try, but worth a shot. I will ask the vet what he thinks of Gabapentin too. I'd give her the tiniest amt. in a bit of food. Groggy isn't what I want for her. Sigh. Thanks so much for being so patient and kind.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I don't know where you are located, so some local pet stores might carry it. I do know you can get it online from Amazon or Chewy.

 

[Dimie]

well, that is good to hear,
my boy is doing well with medication even if he is not all too fond of it.
well one of my old cats was a big panic baby and she would tend to wake up with nightmares and wanted to get cuddled, she was like a four-year-old child in comparison it could that she has nightmares if it is mostly when she is sleeping or panic attacks from going to the vets.

 

[deeebeeee]

I've recently read some things on measuring breathing. Cookie PURRS a lot and this can affect rapidity of breathing. I counted her in/out breaths while she was sleeping and PHEW normal: 30 in/out breaths/minute. I'm not going to jump into medication until she is retested for Free T4. I need to give some time after the last (1 point over max) result a month ago. Plan on doing this probably in September. She shows no signs at all of hyper T - not throwing up, not losing weight, etc. Thank you so much here for being so supportive and helpful. We need to weigh potential side effects of meds like the Hyper T ones (they have some serious side effects) and doing a wait and see.

 

[deeebeeee]

white shadow -- A long time to respond, sorry. Yes I'm going to pick up some Gabapentin from my vet tomorrow. It's tricky with Cookie as she is very sensitive to tranquilizers. I need to do a trial run before we go to the vet next week. Getting the Gabapentin into her is also tricky as she's not a "foodie" so it's very iffy to get her to eat at a certain time. She doesn't like cat treats or gooey cat foods or fish. My problem cat. It'll work out. Thanks for the link, I'm going to read it now. Again sorry for the very long delay in answering.