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Can Bone Trigger Vomiting In Ibd Cat?

Discussion in 'Raw & Home-Cooked Cat Food' started by Cindus, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Cindus

    Cindus Thread Starter TCS Member Young Cat

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    Aug 18, 2018
    New York State
    I have a cat with suspected IBD who vomits regularly. I switched from chicken to turkey (Hare Today 80/10/10 grind with Alnutrin) about four weeks ago and have seen no change. Is it possible that it's not the protein source but the little bone bits in the grind that are causing him to barf? It's always bile, usually with hair, and often a few teeny pieces of bone. He's always had a sensitive stomach and habitually vomited up dry cat-food for years (my ignorance was never his bliss).

    I have to make another HT order soon. Would it be worthwhile to try a completely boneless chicken mix -- i.e., boneless ground, ground organ, Alnutrin with eggshell?
     

  2. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    It is absolutely worth the experiment. I’m not sure IBD cats digest bone all that well. They usually already have digestive disorders hence the IBD.
     
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  3. lisahe

    lisahe TCS Member Top Cat

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    Maine
    I agree with daftcat75 about "worth the experiment." Our cats really love Alnutrin with eggshell.

    That said, don't rule out the fur: one of our cats sometimes vomits up very similar, ah, stuff (bile and fur, very little if any food, no bone) and the common factor in those barfs is almost always that we haven't been very good about brushing her. She does well as long as she's brushed every day. (The egg yolk that we put on the cats' food may help, too.) This vet-written article mentions hair as an irritant, calling it "hair gastritis." I have to think that if hair can be an irritant, little pieces of bone could be, too.

    FWIW, Edwina also has a sensitive stomach. And since it sounds like your cat isn't young, I'll also repeat what our vet is always telling us: motility declines with age and that can cause more fur/hairball issues.

    Good luck!
     
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  4. Cindus

    Cindus Thread Starter TCS Member Young Cat

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    Aug 18, 2018
    New York State
    What recipe do you use? I have my spreadsheet open trying to figure out how to mix Alnutrin with ground HT boneless and organ. It feels weird ignoring the bone-content field. I'm going by the proportions in the Alnutrin "basic raw chicken diet" recipe. It looks like they're doing 93% boneless, 7% liver. How does this sound?

    2268g (5lb. chub) boneless chicken or turkey
    600g ground chicken organ (67% meat, 33% liver)
    38g Alnutrin with eggshell calcium

    Thank you both for your replies. My poor kitty has been having such a tough time. He's 12 and went downhill rapidly after his lifelong buddy died last summer. I initially thought he was grieving (I sure was) but he just never recovered. He lost two pounds, which he's never put back on, and started vomiting. He definitely lost the weight before beginning their four-month transition to raw, but I can't remember when the vomiting started. I initially thought it was just a hairball issue until I came across a description of IBD.

    With any luck, this new mix will do the trick. Both cats have super silky fur and lots of energy (even my skinny guy). I'd hate to have to go back to Fancy Feast. :frown:
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019

  5. lisahe

    lisahe TCS Member Top Cat

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    I just use (plain) meat, liver, and supplement, though I need/want to start adding fish oil. (I'm still relatively new to Alnutrin!) I use the premeasured packets so it's just one pound of meat and some relatively small amount of liver. About an ounce or so? I forget exactly: I weighed a bunch out when I first got started.

    I make food with cooked meat but of course the proportions are just the same if you don't cook the meat.

    I'm so sorry to hear about your cat's health issues -- it's so difficult when they age and problems like these intensify. Our previous cat had all sorts of health problems continue developing in her last years, too.

    Alnutrin will send you a sample pack (for a pound of meat) if you print out and send them a little slip from their site.
     
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  6. Cindus

    Cindus Thread Starter TCS Member Young Cat

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    Aug 18, 2018
    New York State
    Update: Two weeks on the boneless (eggshell calcium) mix has shown no improvement. I just put him back on Fancy Feast and he's still barfing. I can't afford a battery of medical tests, but I'm going to have to take him to the vet. At least I can honestly say that he's eating canned since my vet is very anti-raw. :(
     

  7. lisahe

    lisahe TCS Member Top Cat

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    Oh no, sorry to hear this, Cindus. Is there any chance the vomiting might be from the fur? If you don't brush him and he'll allow it, it's worth a try -- we see a definite link for Edwina. She has a very nice, smooth, shiny coat of fur but at this time of year so much of it comes off that even with consistent brushing, she still gacks up a small hairball or bile-plus-fur every now and then. (Like the other morning...)
     
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  8. Cindus

    Cindus Thread Starter TCS Member Young Cat

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    19
    Aug 18, 2018
    New York State
    I had tried that, thinking it was just a hairball issue (there's almost always hair), but I stopped when it didn't seem to help. Since he enjoys being brushed, I'll give it a go again. Thank you for the suggestion.
     

  9. lisahe

    lisahe TCS Member Top Cat

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    You just never know -- if your cat likes being brushed, at least it's no harm done. Meanwhile, someone barfed up a medium-sized hairgob here this evening... I think it might have been the other cat this time but can't be sure. We get so much fur from each brushing right now, it's just crazy!
     

  10. darg

    darg Gizmo Adult Cat

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    Jan 13, 2014
    Hi Cindus.

    My IBD cat sounds very similiar to yours in some ways. He'd been a dry kibble cat his whole life (12 years). We finally successfully switched him to canned, and now some raw as well.

    If it's not the bone, and Turkey doesn't help, try a different protein. Duck, Rabbit, Lamb. If you've got him transitioned to canned, you may have better luck trying a different protein now. Or maybe try the home-made again but with Rabbit instead of turkey. Also watch for the gums, like Carageenan. Lot's of cats seem to be very sensitive to one or more types of them.

    Good luck.
     
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  11. Cindus

    Cindus Thread Starter TCS Member Young Cat

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    19
    Aug 18, 2018
    New York State
    You sound like you've been reading my mind. I just this second bought a case of Ziwi Beef canned food to see how that sits with him. For some reason it never occurred to me until this week that it could be a poultry allergy. I spent several hours combing through ingredient lists to weed out stuff like carageenan and as many fillers and weird ingredients as I could find.

    It honestly may be too late at this point. He's had health problems his entire life, including three urinary blockages (two surgeries), and now his weight is plummeting. He has a vet appointment this week. His appetite comes and goes, but I don't know how much nutrition he's getting from what he does eat. My anxiety is through the roof and I can't escape feeling like a criminal for having fed him kibbled food for so long, full of proteins that triggered allergies and wrecked his little body. I feel so dumb.

    The vet is very anti-raw (he told me raw food is harder for cats to digest) and likes to try to sell me "prescription" products I don't need. But he's the only one I can afford. If nothing else, maybe he can give my little guy something to soothe his inflammation long enough for me to find a food he can digest.
     

  12. 1 bruce 1

    1 bruce 1 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Don't feel like a criminal. Some cats are born with a genetic tendency to have GI problems, despite what we do. Our boy has had problems since he was 4, and before then he had symptoms like on and off again diarrhea/vomiting.
    What type of prescription food is he trying to sell you, and does he want you to use it short term (a few weeks) to calm the GI tract or is it something he wants him on for life no matter how he handles it? I'm not opposed to using prescription diets, if nothing else works, short term.

    Our cat couldn't process raw, even boneless, but cooked food he could. He's on a commercial diet now, but a short termed bland cooked diet seems to re-set his gut if nothing else will.
     
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  13. lisahe

    lisahe TCS Member Top Cat

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    Oh, Cindus, I so understand what you're feeling! We had a similar situation with our previous cat -- I suspect she had food sensitivities for years, brought on by feeding her dry food, and exacerbated by the vets no understanding her symptoms. (They first started in the early 2000s, before there were all the feline health resources we have now...) I still feel guilty about it. On the positive side, though, she lived to be at least 17, despite digestive issues, a horrendous arhthymia (the vet told us she was likely to just not wake up some day), mild kidney disease, and mild thyroid disease. It was likely lymphoma that go her but she was too frail to be properly diagnosed.

    Don't beat yourself up: you're doing everything you can for your cat and, as @1 bruce 1 says, some cats are just prone to digestive issues. (Our current two cats certainly are... and I'm glad I have the experience with our previous cat to help me feed them better.)

    For now, let's cross our fingers that maybe poultry is your cat's problem -- if so, maybe you can solve this, at least partially! FWIW, we found that our cat's problems were most likely fish and grains.
     
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  14. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Krista’s no-go proteins are chicken and salmon definitely. These are the two proteins she ate most of her life including during the worst of the IBD.

    Novel proteins can help. They only have to be novel to your cat not all cats. In Krista’s case, turkey was novel enough as long as there are no chicken or “poultry” ingredients. Duck and rabbit also work for her. Krista also doesn’t like red meat so pork, venison, beef all don’t interest her. A lot of cats don’t like red meat so don’t be surprised if yours has no interest in that very expensive Ziwi Peak. I like/Krista likes Rawz but that can be hard to find. I want to like First Mate/Kasick but they use chicken liver in their turkey recipe. And that’s the kind of crazy thing that drives people to try homemade (raw or cooked) plus supplements or mix of their choosing. I stabilized Krista when she had pancreatitis by feeding her whichever tuna flavor she liked out of the Tiki Cat Grill and Tiki Cat Aloha Friends line. Some cat guardians frown on feeding fish to cats. But if it keeps a sick cat eating long enough to get better, feed away! You can steer yours to something you might like better for the long-term when she’s crested the short-term challenges she has.

    Also you may want to check out the supplements at Vitality Science | Natural Remedies For Dogs And Cats

    They really helped my Krista get her gut healed well enough for a novel protein to not become a new allergy. They have great customer service there that can help you with product selection and usage questions (like “I’ve been giving and it doesn’t seem to be working”—I sent that one a couple of times before we finally got the magic mix.)
     

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