Calculating Calories

[orange&white]

What do those of you that use the 12.5 ounce cans of wet food do when feeding multiple cats? Are you measuring it out in a measuring cup and then putting it in separate containers for each cat, or are you eyeballing the amount you're giving, or do you go by like teaspoon/tablespoon portions? The dry is so much easier to measure to make sure you're giving them the correct amount. I have been going by teaspoon amounts but wonder if there is an easier way that doesn't have the larger can of wet food going gross before they actually eat it all.

I just mixed up some canned food with formula for a young feral kitten I trapped. I smeared the food into ice cube trays and froze it. Each cube is about one ounce. If you smeared a 12.5 ounce can into 12 squares of a tray (plus "a dab"), you'd have one ounce cubes that thaw out quickly.

I think @lalagimp also feeds her dieting cats with "ice cube" food portions.

 

[orange&white]

I put the bowl on a kitchen scale, tare it, and then add until I get to the oz amount I'm going after

That's what I do with my own cats...weigh each meal on a scale.

 

[_spadekitty]

http://maxshouse.com/nutrition/Calculation_of_Feline_Energy_Requirements.pdf

I'm in veterinary technician school and this is how we were taught to do it. Get your cats weight in kgs (lbs/2.2) and then multiply that by 30 and add 70. Then take one of those maintance values and multiple it to get the total number of kcals/calories your cats should be getting. For example, my cat weighs 8 lbs and should be getting about 214 kcals/day. He's pretty active, so I probably give him closer to 250, but I try and keep track. You can tweak the calories of course if your cat gains/loses too much weight.

 

[orange&white]

http://maxshouse.com/nutrition/Calculation_of_Feline_Energy_Requirements.pdf

I'm in veterinary technician school and this is how we were taught to do it. Get your cats weight in kgs (lbs/2.2) and then multiply that by 30 and add 70. Then take one of those maintance values and multiple it to get the total number of kcals/calories your cats should be getting. For example, my cat weighs 8 lbs and should be getting about 214 kcals/day. He's pretty active, so I probably give him closer to 250, but I try and keep track. You can tweak the calories of course if your cat gains/loses too much weight.

That's the formula most of the online calorie calculators use, then for weight loss they recommend feeding 80% of the maintenance weight calories. Unfortunately, cats' metabolisms are so unique that one formula doesn't work for many of them. It's not a bad starting point though, as a dart throw. My 15.5 pound cat doesn't lose weight unless he eats around 200 calories, which is waaayyyy below the formula results.

 

[_spadekitty]

That's the formula most of the online calorie calculators use, then for weight loss they recommend feeding 80% of the maintenance weight calories. Unfortunately, cats' metabolisms are so unique that one formula doesn't work for many of them. It's not a bad starting point though, as a dart throw. My 15.5 pound cat doesn't lose weight unless he eats around 200 calories, which is waaayyyy below the formula results.

Yeah, I didn't know if the original poster had tried a calculator. I'm used to doing it by hand so I've never even thought to use one lol
Yeah, its a good starting point but like you said won't work for every cat. I think for over weight cats it's not as ideal as someone just trying to keep their pet at a certain weight/put weight on.

*You divide your pets ideal/target weight by 2.2 btw if you're looking to have them gain/loss.

 

[forcryinoutloud]

I have tried the online calculators, but all the ones I use require you also add in the body shape of your cat, and other than Kitty who is clearly obese, the others fall somewhere in between the in between, so the scale might be 4-5-6 and you can chose are they 4, 5 or 6 but mine might be only slightly over 5 so do I go with 5 or 6 because it affects the amount of calories they get by something like 30-40 calories between the two.

And then today, I was reading about senior cats, and three of mine are seniors, and how they need about 5.3g/kg of protein a day MINIMUM (up to 11.5g/kg/day), and I've been trying to figure out the amount of protein that they're getting and honestly, math has never been my thing - I am totally artsy - and I've been giving myself a headache trying to figure out how to calculate it, because if I'm looking at it correctly, the amount of calories they get isn't enough to give them the right amount protein that they should be getting. So is protein or calories more important when looking at a cat's nutrition?

Because I switched them to the grain free Go! chicken, turkey, duck dry and the Performatrin Ultra turkey pate - they get about half their calories from one and half from the other, but they've all lost weight. The Royal Canin Calm dry that they were on, had less calories per cup than either of the foods I am now feeding them, and I was actually giving them what amounted to probably less calories than they should have been getting (it has 330 calories per cup, and they'd get a little over 1/2 cup each with the exception of Jack who was on the grain free because every vet food I tried him on had him throwing up).

Jack, for example, was 6.2kg at his last vet visit. That means he should be getting 32.86g of protein a day at the very least. The go! dry has 10.9g of protein in 100cal as fed - I'm using this as an example, because the food I feed him doesn't have the same nutritional stats online - which would mean, to get the 32.86g of protein a day, he would have to eat like a few pieces over 300 calories. The go! has almost 10% more protein than the dry I feed him, which would mean he would need more of that to get the correct amount of protein. That's just the dry food. The wet food is a whole other thing as far as how much protein he's getting out of it. And the thing is, I feel like none of them are eating enough now - even having gone up to four feedings a day. They're not crying for food anymore, so I know they're not hungry per se, because they leave food in their dishes, but their bellies being full is not the same as them getting enough of the nutrients they need.

These are the foods I feed them

Furgus (4.71kg), Scooter (4.08kg) and Kitty (5.62kg) get:
Go! Grain Free Chicken, Turkey, Duck dry
Performatin Ultra Turkey Pate

Jack (5.71kg) gets:
Holistic Blend Grain Free Turkey and Chicken Dry
Oven Baked Tradition Turkey and Vegetable Wet

Can someone tell me, if I wanted to feed them 50/50, how much of each they should be getting to not just get the right amount of calories but the right amount of protein? I know that losing muscle mass is a really big problem for senior kitties, so making sure they're getting enough protein has me really worried, especially when they've lost so much weight in the last almost month. I almost want to start free feeding again but worry that Jack will get constipated from the go! again, and worried that the extra protein would be harder on his kidneys because of what the vet said, even though there's apparently growing debate about restricting protein in cats with kidney issues.

I think back to my first cat who was fed nothing but Puss-n-Boots wet food, one of the cheapest available at the time, her entire life, and she lived to be almost 21. And she was indoor/outdoor so was probably supplementing with animals she was catching and eating. Here I am trying to feed the best I can afford to my furbabies and I feel like it's actually making them sick.

 

[ginny]

I have tried the online calculators, but all the ones I use require you also add in the body shape of your cat, and other than Kitty who is clearly obese, the others fall somewhere in between the in between, so the scale might be 4-5-6 and you can chose are they 4, 5 or 6 but mine might be only slightly over 5 so do I go with 5 or 6 because it affects the amount of calories they get by something like 30-40 calories between the two.

And then today, I was reading about senior cats, and three of mine are seniors, and how they need about 5.3g/kg of protein a day MINIMUM (up to 11.5g/kg/day), and I've been trying to figure out the amount of protein that they're getting and honestly, math has never been my thing - I am totally artsy - and I've been giving myself a headache trying to figure out how to calculate it, because if I'm looking at it correctly, the amount of calories they get isn't enough to give them the right amount protein that they should be getting. So is protein or calories more important when looking at a cat's nutrition?

Because I switched them to the grain free Go! chicken, turkey, duck dry and the Performatrin Ultra turkey pate - they get about half their calories from one and half from the other, but they've all lost weight. The Royal Canin Calm dry that they were on, had less calories per cup than either of the foods I am now feeding them, and I was actually giving them what amounted to probably less calories than they should have been getting (it has 330 calories per cup, and they'd get a little over 1/2 cup each with the exception of Jack who was on the grain free because every vet food I tried him on had him throwing up).

Jack, for example, was 6.2kg at his last vet visit. That means he should be getting 32.86g of protein a day at the very least. The go! dry has 10.9g of protein in 100cal as fed - I'm using this as an example, because the food I feed him doesn't have the same nutritional stats online - which would mean, to get the 32.86g of protein a day, he would have to eat like a few pieces over 300 calories. The go! has almost 10% more protein than the dry I feed him, which would mean he would need more of that to get the correct amount of protein. That's just the dry food. The wet food is a whole other thing as far as how much protein he's getting out of it. And the thing is, I feel like none of them are eating enough now - even having gone up to four feedings a day. They're not crying for food anymore, so I know they're not hungry per se, because they leave food in their dishes, but their bellies being full is not the same as them getting enough of the nutrients they need.

These are the foods I feed them

Furgus (4.71kg), Scooter (4.08kg) and Kitty (5.62kg) get:
Go! Grain Free Chicken, Turkey, Duck dry
Performatin Ultra Turkey Pate

Jack (5.71kg) gets:
Holistic Blend Grain Free Turkey and Chicken Dry
Oven Baked Tradition Turkey and Vegetable Wet

Can someone tell me, if I wanted to feed them 50/50, how much of each they should be getting to not just get the right amount of calories but the right amount of protein? I know that losing muscle mass is a really big problem for senior kitties, so making sure they're getting enough protein has me really worried, especially when they've lost so much weight in the last almost month. I almost want to start free feeding again but worry that Jack will get constipated from the go! again, and worried that the extra protein would be harder on his kidneys because of what the vet said, even though there's apparently growing debate about restricting protein in cats with kidney issues.

I think back to my first cat who was fed nothing but Puss-n-Boots wet food, one of the cheapest available at the time, her entire life, and she lived to be almost 21. And she was indoor/outdoor so was probably supplementing with animals she was catching and eating. Here I am trying to feed the best I can afford to my furbabies and I feel like it's actually making them sick.

Have they had blood work recently? If not, they probably need a senior panel to see how their kidneys and thyroids are doing, especially since they've been losing weight and you are worried about losing muscle mass. From what I gather, the prevailing wisdom here is to NOT feed any dry, ever, only wet. I've also heard that from at least 2 other cat-only vets and also filter contaminants/toxins out of their water. It sounds like your first cat who ate only wet food did very well.

 

[forcryinoutloud]

They've been losing weight because I started restricting how much they were eating. They free fed before, now I've been calorie counting, and three lost too much weight in the first month, so I've increased the number of feedings and how much they were getting - which is why I am wondering if calories or protein matter more. Restricting them to the number of calories they SHOULD be getting according to most sites I've seen, resulted in two of them with over 1 pound losses in about three and a half weeks. The number of calories they should get, don't give them the amount of protein that the websites I've been reading say they should be getting, especially if they are senior cats. In order to get enough protein, from my calculations (which admittedly could be off because, as I said above, math is NOT my strong suit) they need almost double the calories they are getting right now of the brands I am using.

So short of giving them a raw food diet, which is not something I can do at all, or buying really expensive cat food, which I cannot afford to do, how do you make sure they're getting enough protein, without getting too many calories? Most feeding guidelines tell you to give your cat WAY more than I think they should, calorie wise (one company I looked at said you should give one 12.5 oz can for every 7lbs, which would be something like 750-800 calories) - however, I wonder, are the guidelines looking at the protein content more than the calories? If you calculate out the amount of protein your senior cat should get - and the sites I read say between 5.3g/kg and 11.5g/kg - it's certainly going to mean far more calories than 200-275 calories per day - no matter if you feed wet or dry.

As for wet food - I am trying to switch them over to more wet than dry, but it will takes months before that happens with anything resembling success. Right now it is more important to me that they actually EAT, rather than what they are eating. If they eat 25% wet right now, I am calling that a win. Everything I've read says you shouldn't expect that the switch to wet will be easy, or fast, so I am not worried in that regard - I am however, worried that they aren't getting enough protein if I am restricting their calories. I don't want them to be overweight, but I don't want them losing muscle mass either.

 

[mizzely]

My understanding is that to be AAFCO compliant, they need 26% protein in the food. Kittens require more like 35-45%, adult cats about 30%, and seniors more like kittens again. The Go! Grain Free Chicken, Turkey, Duck dry is 48%, which should br adequate and thr Performatin Ultra Turkey Pate is 45% on a dry matter basis. Both foods should provide the requirements of a senior cat regardless of the ratio.

 

[mizzely]

For my cats when I was doing wet and dry both, I made it easier on myself by saying "okay, I want each cat to have a full 5.5 oz can a day, and then fill in the gap with dry." So I'd split one can at morning and night between the two cats so they each had one can between two meals. So for instance Performatin Ultra Turkey Pate has 156 calories per each 5.5oz can. So then for my cats, they only need about 50-75 more calories in a day. The Go! Grain Free Chicken, Turkey, Duck dry has 473 calories per cup. Meaning to make up the gap, I'd feed between 1/9 and 1/6 of a cup. To make it easier I'd just round to 1/8 cup, providing 59 calories, for a daily total of 215 calories. This would make it more like 75/25 wet to dry but it's a lot easier for me everyday!

 

[ginny]

So short of giving them a raw food diet, which is not something I can do at all, or buying really expensive cat food, which I cannot afford to do, how do you make sure they're getting enough protein, without getting too many calories?

Feed them low-carb wet food only. Read labels.

Wet food has the amount of protein they need and water too. It doesn't have to be the expensive kind either. Read labels and stay away from not only grain but also starches like potatoes and peas which are common fillers in grain-free foods which make it high carb. Cats are obligate carnivores. They don't need potatoes and peas in their food. There are varieties of Fancy Feast, Friskies and Sheba which fit the bill nicely.

Dry food leads to health problems. I have one who has diabetes now and another who has stage 1 renal failure. I fed them about 50/50 dry and wet through out their life so far, until a while back when I got them on grain-free. They still had dry food which had a 25% Carb ratio, that's still way too high for them. Even some of their wet food had wheat and rice in it. Now since April they are only on wet food and low carb, < 10%. Another one of them was throwing up every now and then. Since going on all wet low-carb, she's stopped.

 

[ginny]

If you can't afford blood work for them, is there any way you can get a glucometer and test their blood sugar? At least that will tell you if they have diabetes or not.

 

[forcryinoutloud]

Thank you. I found a site that explains how to calculate the protein percentages in both dry and wet food more clearly. All the foods I use have over 35% protein and the sites I've been looking at say 30% is a good amount to aim for for adults, so they're getting more than the average amount. So I am less worried about the protein issue now. They get dry throughout the night, because they're certainly not eating enough wet through the day to constitute a proper amount of calories/nutrients. As I said, the switch to wet is going to take time and that is not anything I am worried about right now. I think I simply wasn't giving them enough calories when I started calorie counting and that is why they lost so quickly - or rather, because they've all always been grazers, I hadn't kept a proper check on just how many calories they were consuming to make sure that they were getting enough (smaller more frequent meals seems to be assuring that they're eating almost all of the wet that they get during the day, and the dry they get at night makes up for the fact that they aren't eating a full serving of wet food a day yet). I will check their weight again at the beginning of the week and make sure the three that lost too much haven't lost anymore, and that Kitty is still on track to losing her excess pounds slowly.

Also, all the food they get are grain free, however finding cat food that doesn't have pea or potato in my really rural area is downright impossible it seems like - and if I DO manage to find it, the cats won't even look at it, which frankly, doesn't do any of us any good. I hate that there are fillers in some of the food I feed, but it's much more important to me that they're actually eating - and Jack whose food sadly has dried pea as the fifth ingredient in his wet and pea and potato as third and fourth in his dry, is my pickiest cat and the one I have the hardest time making sure is actually eating enough. I tried to switch him to the Go! dry because of the pea and potato, but he ended up with gas and constipation (even though I spent a couple of weeks trying to transition him from one to the other). The vet told me to go back to the grain free dry that wasn't giving him any problems, and he's using the bathroom normally again, and no longer has gas. None of them will eat the go! wet food AT ALL. So the way I look at it is this, they're getting a better quality meat source from the foods I feed them - instead of almost entirely by-product from the cheap brands of wet (which they also refuse to eat), and eventually I'd love to get them all 100% on wet, but until I find a food that they will ALL eat, that meets my own requirements (no by-products and grain free), that I can actually afford to feed them, I have to just do the best that I can do.

So for now, I've increased the number of times they're being fed, and giving them a little bit extra in case I wasn't giving them enough when I started with the calorie counting. Hopefully in several days time, that change will show encouraging results.

ETA:

Sorry, missed the post about diabetes. They don't have any symptoms other than weight loss, and I know that can be explained by the change in amount of food they've been getting. I keep an eye on their litter box habits, and their drinking habits, I check the color of their gums, check their eyes etc. If they were showing any other signs of something being wrong, I'd definitely have them to the vet, but I don't see any changes in anything else that would send up a red flag and since Daniel's passing in April, I have been OBSESSIVE in my watching of them for anything like that. If they're still losing weight by next week after having increased the number of calories they're getting, then I will look at getting them seen by the vet.