Okay, I think my major questions on persians are, how much are their eyes supposed to really weep? Do they get any better about cleaning themselves when they get older? How often should I expect them to get sick? I have heard they are prone to colds because of the pushed in faces. He really is a cutie, but so far seems to require a lot of medical care.
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breeding Persians
- Thread starter sandie
- Start Date
I was not a Persian breeder but someone told me one time that because of the severe pushed in faces the tear ducts are affected. Any one know any more about this? Linda
Hi Guys. I posted a response to Sandie on How do you become a breeder.
I have elderly persian cats that have never been sick a day in their lives! I am phobic about completing full vaccination regimes! I really believe in vaccinating persians, ( and all cats), against Chamydia which is an UR disease truly affecting the eyes. I also do not take my cats to shows so they don't pick things up. If I want to campaign a cat, I send it to a friend of mine's house to live. After all, what are friends for?
Persians are a pain to breed. Especially after raising Siamese for years! Siamese practically have to be locked in jail cells to keep them from breeding. They have six kittens on average and raise them all up, no problems. The darn things are back in heat six weeks later!!!!
Persians first come into heat no younger than one year old. They may come into heat three times a year if you are lucky!!! They produce two to six kittens, but then end up sitting on one or two of them and squishing them. Trust me, this does not endear the cat to you !!! They are much more relaxed mothers than Siamese. They don't try to move the kittens all over the place. Health wise the persians are just fine to breed and raise up. Another problem they can encounter is difficulty delivering the kittens because of the large heads and bone substance.
If you are planning on becoming rich breeding cats. Don't breed persians!!! A friend of mine once said," If you want to make a small fortune raising persians, start with a large fortune!"
But I love every one of them anyway. They are truly my babies.
I have elderly persian cats that have never been sick a day in their lives! I am phobic about completing full vaccination regimes! I really believe in vaccinating persians, ( and all cats), against Chamydia which is an UR disease truly affecting the eyes. I also do not take my cats to shows so they don't pick things up. If I want to campaign a cat, I send it to a friend of mine's house to live. After all, what are friends for?
Persians are a pain to breed. Especially after raising Siamese for years! Siamese practically have to be locked in jail cells to keep them from breeding. They have six kittens on average and raise them all up, no problems. The darn things are back in heat six weeks later!!!!
Persians first come into heat no younger than one year old. They may come into heat three times a year if you are lucky!!! They produce two to six kittens, but then end up sitting on one or two of them and squishing them. Trust me, this does not endear the cat to you !!! They are much more relaxed mothers than Siamese. They don't try to move the kittens all over the place. Health wise the persians are just fine to breed and raise up. Another problem they can encounter is difficulty delivering the kittens because of the large heads and bone substance.
If you are planning on becoming rich breeding cats. Don't breed persians!!! A friend of mine once said," If you want to make a small fortune raising persians, start with a large fortune!"
But I love every one of them anyway. They are truly my babies.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #4
I definatley don't want to breed persians! I never thought I even wanted one. I have so many to take care of, I didn't want the extra trouble of all the grooming with them. He was a gift to our daughter. He will be nuetered as soon as he is well. He has been sick ever since I have had him. I want to get a feel of what I am in for. He has have SEVERE goopy eyes and he poops all the time and I swear he must sit in it. All of my kitties are vaccinated with the feline 4. Is there such a thing as a persian bred badly and will have problems forever??
I think it is safe to assume that there are sickly specimens of any creature.
A long time ago, when I first started looking into persian breeding stock, I went to a breeder's home to look at kittens. The animals were in a damp basement and all looked poorly. I bought two of the kittens just to rescue them! I tried to buy the mother but the lady wouldn't sell her. My girlfriend had come with me for the drive. She was killing herself laughing at me all the way home!!! She knew there was no way I would ever be able to make healthy cats out of these poor dears.
After hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of meds and cleaning products and months and months of aggrevation, the kittens looked and acted healthy. I found them good homes because I certainly wasn't going to use them in a breeding program!! Both cats died before they were four years old.
I couldn't leave them in that horrible place. I would do it all over again if I had to.
A long time ago, when I first started looking into persian breeding stock, I went to a breeder's home to look at kittens. The animals were in a damp basement and all looked poorly. I bought two of the kittens just to rescue them! I tried to buy the mother but the lady wouldn't sell her. My girlfriend had come with me for the drive. She was killing herself laughing at me all the way home!!! She knew there was no way I would ever be able to make healthy cats out of these poor dears.
After hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of meds and cleaning products and months and months of aggrevation, the kittens looked and acted healthy. I found them good homes because I certainly wasn't going to use them in a breeding program!! Both cats died before they were four years old.
I couldn't leave them in that horrible place. I would do it all over again if I had to.
Hi Everyone,
My name is Sue Johnson and I have been a persian and himalayan breeder for almost 12 years.
I own "Cozy Kitten Cattery"
I see all your notes about breeding these cats and I have to say that I see both sides to breeding persians and himmy's.
I think most people these days don't know why the persians have such smashed in faces.
They were not like this 10-20 years ago.
Well, truth is not all persians and himalayans have the smashed in faces.
See they all started out with longer noses and then most breeders started to inbreed them.
That's what the judges wanted to see...the flatter faces, the shorter noses.
Therefor most all persian and himalayan breeders started to inbreed these cats.
The more closely related, the flatter the face became.
And Yes, I have been on both sides of the fence.
I raised both the peke (Flat faced persians & himmy's) and the baby doll-faced (Not really flat faced)
I myself did not have the time in my life to deal with all the problems that came along with the peke faced cats.
Nor did I want to inbreed my dollfaces to try and get the flat faces.
It was heart breaking for me to see some of these cats struggle on a daily basis to breeth.
Their eyes dripped and ran all day long.
All I got done was clean their eyes.
They always seemed to have colds and need antibotics...and yes, I was falling further and further in the hole money wise.
The vets loved me! Ha!
I was always in there with the peke faces and always dealing with these cats and all the sinus problems they had.
At one point I had to have the sinus passages drilled out on one of my peke faced cats.
She simply had none!
Very sad.
And though this will probley cause alot of people to hate me, I'v always been the kind of person to say what's on my mind...it doesn't mean anyone has to agree with me, but it's just what "I" have seen.
It upsets me to see some of the peke faced cats on the internet all dolled up and looking great...because that particular cat may be drop dead beautiful but what about all the other kittens in that litter?
Where are they?
What do they look like?
Like I'v said before I have been on both sides of the fence and have seen and had some really beautiful peke faced cats, but I also seen in the same litter kittens that were NOT beautiful at all.
Kittens that had to be put to sleep because of total inbred problems.
It was the day that we had a one eyed kitten born here that I said..."NO MORE"
and sold all my peke faced cats and kept only my dollfaces.
NEVER looking back and never wanting to go through that again.
My daughter was there with me when this kitten was first born and it scared us both to death.
It was heart breaking to say the least.
It was alive and even nursing...but ever so messed up.
And that was one of many terrible things I seen by inbreeding cats and what can and does wrong.
Please don't think I don't like the peke faced cats, because I do, I just wish not to breed them.
My heart is with the baby doll-faced and since being on the internet, I'v heard from thousands of people saying they did not even know about the dollfaces, they remember when that's what they used to look like and now all they seem to find is the peke faces (Sometimes known as show cats or extreme faced persians and himmy's).
Well, I am only one person and can only speek from "MY" experience so please do not tell me all about all of the peke faced cats eveyone has that does NOT have breathing problems, nor runny eyes, I know there are SOME...because I have had them too....but there are alot that do.
Anne asked me to show up and express my feeling on this all and that's what I have done.
I hope my message has left everyone with a little bit more understanding of the doll-faced persians and himalayans and the peke faced persians and himalayans.
I envite you to see some of my dollfaced persians on Anne's Persian kitten postcards or visit my website at:
http://www.nemr.net/~poppy1/
Sue Johnson
My name is Sue Johnson and I have been a persian and himalayan breeder for almost 12 years.
I own "Cozy Kitten Cattery"
I see all your notes about breeding these cats and I have to say that I see both sides to breeding persians and himmy's.
I think most people these days don't know why the persians have such smashed in faces.
They were not like this 10-20 years ago.
Well, truth is not all persians and himalayans have the smashed in faces.
See they all started out with longer noses and then most breeders started to inbreed them.
That's what the judges wanted to see...the flatter faces, the shorter noses.
Therefor most all persian and himalayan breeders started to inbreed these cats.
The more closely related, the flatter the face became.
And Yes, I have been on both sides of the fence.
I raised both the peke (Flat faced persians & himmy's) and the baby doll-faced (Not really flat faced)
I myself did not have the time in my life to deal with all the problems that came along with the peke faced cats.
Nor did I want to inbreed my dollfaces to try and get the flat faces.
It was heart breaking for me to see some of these cats struggle on a daily basis to breeth.
Their eyes dripped and ran all day long.
All I got done was clean their eyes.
They always seemed to have colds and need antibotics...and yes, I was falling further and further in the hole money wise.
The vets loved me! Ha!
I was always in there with the peke faces and always dealing with these cats and all the sinus problems they had.
At one point I had to have the sinus passages drilled out on one of my peke faced cats.
She simply had none!
And though this will probley cause alot of people to hate me, I'v always been the kind of person to say what's on my mind...it doesn't mean anyone has to agree with me, but it's just what "I" have seen.
It upsets me to see some of the peke faced cats on the internet all dolled up and looking great...because that particular cat may be drop dead beautiful but what about all the other kittens in that litter?
Where are they?
What do they look like?
Like I'v said before I have been on both sides of the fence and have seen and had some really beautiful peke faced cats, but I also seen in the same litter kittens that were NOT beautiful at all.
Kittens that had to be put to sleep because of total inbred problems.
It was the day that we had a one eyed kitten born here that I said..."NO MORE"
and sold all my peke faced cats and kept only my dollfaces.
NEVER looking back and never wanting to go through that again.
My daughter was there with me when this kitten was first born and it scared us both to death.
It was heart breaking to say the least.
It was alive and even nursing...but ever so messed up.
And that was one of many terrible things I seen by inbreeding cats and what can and does wrong.
Please don't think I don't like the peke faced cats, because I do, I just wish not to breed them.
My heart is with the baby doll-faced and since being on the internet, I'v heard from thousands of people saying they did not even know about the dollfaces, they remember when that's what they used to look like and now all they seem to find is the peke faces (Sometimes known as show cats or extreme faced persians and himmy's).
Well, I am only one person and can only speek from "MY" experience so please do not tell me all about all of the peke faced cats eveyone has that does NOT have breathing problems, nor runny eyes, I know there are SOME...because I have had them too....but there are alot that do.
Anne asked me to show up and express my feeling on this all and that's what I have done.
I hope my message has left everyone with a little bit more understanding of the doll-faced persians and himalayans and the peke faced persians and himalayans.
I envite you to see some of my dollfaced persians on Anne's Persian kitten postcards or visit my website at:
http://www.nemr.net/~poppy1/
Sue Johnson
Thanks for coming and posting Sue!
Welcome to the forums.
Very interesting post. The part about the one-eyed kitten was a bit shocking though! Did he survive?
I've always liked the doll-faced Persians better myself. And your point about how many other deformed kittens are born in order to create the few show quality kittens is very true, IMO.
Welcome to the forums.
Very interesting post. The part about the one-eyed kitten was a bit shocking though! Did he survive?
I've always liked the doll-faced Persians better myself. And your point about how many other deformed kittens are born in order to create the few show quality kittens is very true, IMO.
Thank you Anne,
If you think it was shocking to read...you would have died to see it.
And to answer your question...No, it was more messed up in the haed than just the eyes and it did not make it through the first night.
If you think it was shocking to read...you would have died to see it.
And to answer your question...No, it was more messed up in the haed than just the eyes and it did not make it through the first night.
I need to comment on this simply beacuse in the years I bred Maine Coons ( 2) and the rest of the time Siberians(10) - I never made a cent - the first two years we took over $5,000 losses on our income taxes. All of the kitten money was used to feed, buy litter, food toys, pay for cat shows and hotel expenses - the year I first introduced Siberians to CFF I spent over $12,000 going to shows to promote the breed & I shared rooms with folks most of the time . A kitten going out the door for say $500 has incurred many expenses, first you have to figure in the price of the parents , their up keep, then the kittens need kitten food, their vaccinations ( although I did my own ) Mom needs all her shots and an exam before breeding, kittens need a health exam and certificate before they can leave, you have the expense of phone calls to the buyers, advertising, mailing pictures, ( internet sure has helped there), litter registrations, association dues, plus all my its left with new beds, toys and a baby book. Just to name a few. Linda
I totally agree with everything you said...yes! raising reg cats is NOT a cheap hobby....I'm lucky to break even after the litter is sold.
But my pay comes from the wonderful people that have came into my life from breeding cats.
There are no words to decribe the absolutely terrific people that have came into my world....and all because of my cats & kittens.
My cats and kittens are "Pets".
They are not meant to show off...they are meant to be family companions.
But they are all VERY costly!!! I agree!
But my pay comes from the wonderful people that have came into my life from breeding cats.
There are no words to decribe the absolutely terrific people that have came into my world....and all because of my cats & kittens.
My cats and kittens are "Pets".
They are not meant to show off...they are meant to be family companions.
But they are all VERY costly!!! I agree!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #11
Well, I have made a very hard decision today. I am going to give the persian back to the breeder. I can not take any more chances getting my queen sick. This is the first time I have ever had to do this. I have so many things going, that he really needs to be in a home that has the time for grooming. So I am going to get him as well as I can, the ringworm only needs 3 more day sof treatment and then a week if antibiotics.
For the money making in breeding..hehe...what money. Yes, I got into this knowing I was maybe going to break even. I got into breeding for the love of the cats. I wanted people to be able to get good, happy, healthy munchkins!! We do show, but it is because we both love it and we get to spend time with the cats. We take at least one household pet to each show. At least the ones that like the attention.
I am very happy to see we have some breeders in the forums!!!
For the money making in breeding..hehe...what money. Yes, I got into this knowing I was maybe going to break even. I got into breeding for the love of the cats. I wanted people to be able to get good, happy, healthy munchkins!! We do show, but it is because we both love it and we get to spend time with the cats. We take at least one household pet to each show. At least the ones that like the attention.
I am very happy to see we have some breeders in the forums!!!
I certainly agree - some of the folks I have sold my kittens to have become dear dear friends to me - I get Xmas cards with updated photos a lot and many I have daily e mail from -with Siberians many folks with allergies have been able to tolerate Siberians and it makes it extra special to watch someone go home with a new kitty when they have not been able to have kittens for many years. Linda
ComradeKitties, I have never seen a Siberian. Nor are they in any of my books. What do they look like and what is their tempernment like?
Sandie, I totally agree with your decision. You cannot risk your beloved pets and breeding stock for a kitten that has special needs. I am sure the breeder will find him a good private home. Down the road, should you ever want a persian with hopefully less troubles, let me know. I am always keeping an eye out for excellent homes for my retirees. You sound like a perfect home!
Sandie, I totally agree with your decision. You cannot risk your beloved pets and breeding stock for a kitten that has special needs. I am sure the breeder will find him a good private home. Down the road, should you ever want a persian with hopefully less troubles, let me know. I am always keeping an eye out for excellent homes for my retirees. You sound like a perfect home!
I just wanted to tell Sandie although her decision is heartbreaking - it is the right one. I know what she is going through... I bought a male Chow pup that tested positive for displasia (can be a result of inbreeding), emotionally & monetarily I could not afford to take on that responsibility.
However, if breeders or the powers that govern the cat shows had any concern for the animals themselves, Persians would not be in this state today. Yes, ONE out of however many may look beautiful, but how many more are sick, neglected or killed because they did not beat the odds. All I can say is Thank God for Breeders like Sue. About a year ago I began my search for a breeder, though I did not know exactly what I was looking for. Sue's site was one that I came across & I thought was beautiful but I knew that wasn't what made a good Breeder. What I realized after talking with her, questioning her & getting questioned by her is Sue loves and cares for her kittens more than words could express. Maybe even more that the qweens themselves! God knows it shows through everything she does! She has a heart of pure gold and I have 2 perfectly happy & healthy additions to my family to prove it!
[Edited by Kimber-Lee on 12-11-2000 at 03:40 PM]
However, if breeders or the powers that govern the cat shows had any concern for the animals themselves, Persians would not be in this state today. Yes, ONE out of however many may look beautiful, but how many more are sick, neglected or killed because they did not beat the odds. All I can say is Thank God for Breeders like Sue. About a year ago I began my search for a breeder, though I did not know exactly what I was looking for. Sue's site was one that I came across & I thought was beautiful but I knew that wasn't what made a good Breeder. What I realized after talking with her, questioning her & getting questioned by her is Sue loves and cares for her kittens more than words could express. Maybe even more that the qweens themselves! God knows it shows through everything she does! She has a heart of pure gold and I have 2 perfectly happy & healthy additions to my family to prove it!
[Edited by Kimber-Lee on 12-11-2000 at 03:40 PM]
Siberians first came into US in 1990 from Lenigrad, Russia to a breeder in Louisiana - they resemble the Maine Coon and/or Noregian Forest cat - actually I would bet my last dollar the three all came from the same place - although went in different directions. The Maine Coon is the biggest of the 3, and NFC the smallest with the Siberian in the middle - a SIberian is a well muscled cat with triple long coat - round everything - head, ears , eyes body - coming in all colors including colorpoint - they are lovable and very very intellegent - some do matt so grooming is essential - they get heavy coat in the WInter months and as they age they mature - please visit my web page and click under Siberian growth and see my oldest Irida from 12 weeks to 9 years of age. http://www.gwi.net/~lindag - I need to work on my page so pardon it .
Hi ComradeKitties, I tried to visit you site but I couldn't get past the home page to any info or pics. Am I doing something wrong?
Sorry Harriet - I am doing some major moving of the page and with the holidays - go to the main page and click on the words SIBERIAN GROWTH - it will or it did take me to the page showing the kitty as she grew - Linda some day I'll tell you the about my web page and my internet provider - GGGRRR!!!!
http://www/gwi.net/~lindag
http://www/gwi.net/~lindag
Sorry Comrade, still no luck! The top one comes up, " URL not found and the bottom takes me to a page that has your name on it, with flags flying but no where to go or enter. The words, "Siberian growth' do not appear on the page.
http://www.gwi.net/~lindag
had it in wrong . Linda
for more Siberians try this
http://www.homestead.com/TaigaSiberians
click on breeding members
had it in wrong . Linda
for more Siberians try this
http://www.homestead.com/TaigaSiberians
click on breeding members
