Breeding a queen multiple times a year... is it ethical to go with this breeder?

twohandsfourpaws

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
4
Purraise
6
Hi everyone, I'm already the happy owner of a BSH from a European breeder who I felt highly comfortable with and demonstrated ethical breeding and considerable experience. We were living in Europe at the time and are now based in the US, looking for a second cat with a regional breeder.

I've put a deposit down on a kitten that is ready to be taken home in a couple of weeks at 9 weeks of age. I have recently gone to meet the breeder at her home and I am concerned about the breeding intervals of the mother. The same parents of my kitten produced a litter 4 months prior to my kitten's litter, and it seems like the mother is again pregnant and about to give birth soon. Again, about 4 months in between litters. From my research, this doesn't seem to be ethical to breed the mother more than once or twice a year, but it would be great to have a more experienced opinion.

Other things check out - cats/kittens looked healthy, environment was good, breeder is TICA registered (will not register my kitten until I spay her), I've seen the family tree (should I expect a copy now?), they're getting their shots at a vet at the appropriate age.

The only other red flag was that she did not ask me about my home environment or experience with cats. With my other cat, our breeder asked to see pictures of our apartment and interviewed us about our lifestyle. To not be asked these questions seems odd, just because I can afford the (high) price tag. That's the other thing - this kitten is more than double the cost of our current cat, although we bought her 4 years ago prior to COVID causing pet prices to skyrocket.

Any advice is very highly appreciated. Thank you!
 

Furballsmom

Cat Devotee
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
34,463
Purraise
45,930
Location
Colorado US
I've read your post a couple times, and you're right, the comparison between the two breeders is a bit stark.

That said, at the end of the day I feel like it's up to you as to whether you continue and decide to take the baby.
 

Peaches&Mango

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2022
Messages
102
Purraise
265
I agree with Furballsmom, and do think it’s odd they didn’t ask questions imo.
I also think 9 weeks is too early to be taken, along with the multiple litters in the duration seems too many for the Queen. Have they been health tested etc?
I’m not overly experienced so I’m sure others will add later on what they think. I hope all works out for you though whether you take this kitten or another :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

twohandsfourpaws

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
4
Purraise
6
I agree with Furballsmom, and do think it’s odd they didn’t ask questions imo.
I also think 9 weeks is too early to be taken, along with the multiple litters in the duration seems too many for the Queen. Have they been health tested etc?
I’m not overly experienced so I’m sure others will add later on what they think. I hope all works out for you though whether you take this kitten or another :)
Thank you! No, neither parents nor kitten are tested which is another concern.
 

GoldyCat

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
15,267
Purraise
3,913
Location
Arizona
Way too many red flags. Aside from the fact that 9 weeks is too young to take a kitten from her mother and litter mates, if litters are only 4 months a part it means the queens is being bred far too soon for her to have recovered from giving birth and nursing kittens.

Does the contract include a health guarantee? Not having the parents tested for at least HCM is a huge concern. Brits have a tendency to have cardiac problems. The breeders I know are working hard to breed for health, not repeating a breeding that produced kittens with cardiac issues.

I don't know how much your deposit was, but you need to consider that you might end up paying a lot more in vet bills than what you'd lose by giving up the deposit.

In the end, it's your choice whether to go ahead with this adoption. It may turn out to be a perfectly healthy kitten, but you need to be aware of the things that can go wrong.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6

twohandsfourpaws

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
4
Purraise
6
Way too many red flags. Aside from the fact that 9 weeks is too young to take a kitten from her mother and litter mates, if litters are only 4 months a part it means the queens is being bred far too soon for her to have recovered from giving birth and nursing kittens.

Does the contract include a health guarantee? Not having the parents tested for at least HCM is a huge concern. Brits have a tendency to have cardiac problems. The breeders I know are working hard to breed for health, not repeating a breeding that produced kittens with cardiac issues.

I don't know how much your deposit was, but you need to consider that you might end up paying a lot more in vet bills than what you'd lose by giving up the deposit.

In the end, it's your choice whether to go ahead with this adoption. It may turn out to be a perfectly healthy kitten, but you need to be aware of the things that can go wrong.
Thanks for your answer. How many months in between litters is ideal?

The health guarantee is valid for 7 days after taking the kitten home.

The deposit wasn't very much, so I wouldn't feel too bad losing it. Poor kitties, though. :(
 

StefanZ

Advisor
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
24,692
Purraise
8,641
Location
Sweden
The big European association of FIFe have it as 3 litters per 2 years. , unless a litter is very small. IF so, its possible and doable to take next litter much sooner. Most Swedish breeders do it once a year
Of course, most of these breeders have the cats as their family members.

Also, the minimum age of selling were a long time 12 weeks, NOW its 14 weeks, but discussions are going on to prolong it to 16 weeks...

Although I know there are so called Indenpendent clubs whom allows 10 weeks. (these are nowadays organized into an umbrella organisation WCF??)


To summarize: What is Tica saying about this I dont know, but this sounds to me sooner as a typical BYB more than a responsible, ethical breeder.

Not all BYBs are villains, but there is a reason why some are held contemptuosly for BYBs and some are not, even if small breeders.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

twohandsfourpaws

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
4
Purraise
6
The big European association of FIFe have it as 3 litters per 2 years. , unless a litter is very small. IF so, its possible and doable to take next litter much sooner. Most Swedish breeders do it once a year
Of course, most of these breeders have the cats as their family members.

Also, the minimum age of selling were a long time 12 weeks, NOW its 14 weeks, but discussions are going on to prolong it to 16 weeks...

Although I know there are so called Indenpendent clubs whom allows 10 weeks. (these are nowadays organized into an umbrella organisation WCF??)


To summarize: What is Tica saying about this I dont know, but this sounds to me sooner as a typical BYB more than a responsible, ethical breeder.

Not all BYBs are villains, but there is a reason why some are held contemptuosly for BYBs and some are not, even if small breeders.
This confirms what I thought. My first breeder allowed us to take our BSH home only at 4 months. Due to travel for the holidays, I asked the 2nd breeder if I could pick up the kitten a few weeks later and she refused, saying it would be bad for the kitten because all the siblings would be removed and it would be traumatic. Is there any truth to that?

Are BSH's really so rare in the US? Are they in such high demand where people are on waiting lists to pay 2-3K for a kitten? My girl cost 750 euro when I bought her in Europe and, if I'm honest, is a pretty rare color, healthy and extremely beautiful for breed standards.
 
Top