Biting kitten - Bach Flowers?

Antonio65

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I have recently adopted a kitten. She's a little younger than 3 months.
I had seen a photo of her at the end of September, I asked the rescue people some bits of info about her, but they told me that cat had been promised already to a new family, so I kind of forgot her.
Until a few days later when they contacted me again because the kitten had been returned due to some incompatibility with the resident cat.
Well, to cut this story short, I and my wife decided to adopt her, and the kitten came home with us on November 1, that is exactly 5 weeks after I first saw her.
Despite this long lapse of time, she's still a tiny little kitten, only 1 kg / 2.2 lbs of weight.

Well, she's not exactly the cuddliest of the kittens. What she does constantly is biting our hands and feet, she often follows us and jumps at our legs and bites, or attacks our ankles.
She also bites our clothes when she's close to us, or bites her blanket, the cardboard box I handed her as a toy, and so on. She seems constantly nervous, tail wagging and all.
I'm aware that she's been with us too a short time to build some kind of confidence, but this biting is really unwelcome.
There are times when she grabs my hand, bites and kicks, a does not want to let go. I also thought of teething, but I ruled that out because of her young age. Or they lied to me about her age, she's older than they claimed and she's just a micro-cat, but I have looked into her mouth and I didn't see teeth changing. A person told me that it is possible the kitten might have some internal parasites though she's been dewormed by the rescue people, and these parasites are bothering her and she's nervous. Or that she needs to have her behavior corrected through the presence of another well-educated kitten.

So far I tried with shouting at her, yelling "NO", hissing at her, withdrawing my hand, ignoring her. I also gave her some finger taps on her nose.
Nothing worked, it seems to me that every action of mine exacerbates her reactions. She even looks for my hands in order to bite them, so when we are on the sofa and watch the TV, any movement of our hands is a good reason to jump and bite!
As a consequences of my countermeasures, she doesn't trust me much, she doesn't follow me, she doesn't come when called. I can't pet her when she's next to me on the couch, because as soon as my hands get close to her, she turns towards my hand and bites it, or grabs and bites and kicks it. I can't even pick her up to keep her in my arms, she struggles and asks to be put down, she meows loudly as I was torturing her. Of course she doesn't come on my lap.
The only moments when I can cuddle her are when she's sleeping. She also purrs, and last night, for the first time, she licked my lips while she was purring, but one single episode doesn't tell or mean much.
Otherwise she's sweet and cute, she plays a lot, eats regularly, no troubles in the litterbox so far. She loves to watch the TV, she loves the colors and the flashes of the images on the screen.
On the night she came home with us, the first thing she did as soon as she got out the carrier was to play, and then she ate right away. Not the least sign of stress, despite the 7 hours drive to get home.

I had and fostered many cats and kittens so far, it never happened to find such a thing before, they all were sweet and lovely, maybe a little shy and scared at the beginning, but all soft and sweet within very few days. I didn't expect such a behavior when I decided to adopt her.

I think she was fostered alone in the previous home, alone in an empty room, and those people would play with their hands with her and never picked her up. Because she's very young I'm a little confident she could improve and I just have to be patient, but nonetheless I have to admit I'm a little sad and disappointed.
I keep wondering if things might have been better if I had the chance to adopt her in September, when I first saw her and she was 5 weeks younger.
I would like to try with some Bach Flowers, but I do not know much about them and I don't who to ask.

Has anybody of you tried this kind of remedy for troublesome kitties? Which Flower(s) should I try to fix this problem?
Or any other solution?
Thanks!
 

rubysmama

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Oh, Antonio65 Antonio65 , I'm so happy to hear you've adopted a kitten. :petcat: With your experience, and love, she couldn't be in a better home. :redheartpump: Do you have some pictures you can share? :camera:

It sounds like she may have been taken from her mom and siblings too soon to have learned kitty manners. And then wasn't socialized well while being fostered. Poor little girl. But now she's with you. :redheartpump:

I don't know anything about Bach Flowers, but TCS has these articles that you may not have read, that may be helpful:

9 Tips That Will Help Your Kitten Adapt To A New Apartment | TheCatSite
How To Stop Playtime Aggression In Cats | TheCatSite

10 Must-know Tips For Happy Living With A Shy Cat | TheCatSite
16 Top Cat Experts Share Tips For Dealing With Timid Cats | TheCatSite
14 Cat Experts Reveal: How To Get A Cat To Like Me | TheCatSite

There's also this one from the Humane Society:
Teach Your Kitten How to Play Nice : The Humane Society of the United States
(using a water spray bottle is mentioned in the above article, however, TCS does not feel spray bottles are helpful, and explains why in the 5 Reasons To Never Spray Water On Your Cat | TheCatSite article)
 

di and bob

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This is VERY common with kittens that were separated form the cat family unit before they learned limits and how to 'play nice' by being disciplined by mama and revengfull littermates. Your kitten is really trying to play, which is what all kittens do as you know, and had no idea that her biting and 'attacking' are wrong. She is confused when you 'punish' her and since this doesn't work with cats, she has become afraid and sneaky and still has not linked her actions with being wrong. She is doing what she has been allowed to get away with and has no idea what you want. Get a 'kickeroo' from amazon or a pet store, made for cats.I have several and keep one in a bag filled with catnip to keep them refreshed. They are irresistible and when she starts stalking or coming at you, throw it to the side of her so it diverts her attention. It releases a lot of pent up energy instead of on you. She must never be allowed to bite your hands or clotehs. When she does so, take her by the loose skin on the back of the neck and say sternly NO, or hiss. This has to be done EVERY time. This is what a mama cat does to discipline. Hold her until she stops struggling. Never squeeze or hold her overlong, just a few seconds. Sometimes a very aggressive squirming requires their front feet to be lifted off the ground, but NEVER all four. This seems harsh, but it is what a mama cat does and instinctively she will respond. You've seen mamas carrying their little ones and I'm sure have noticed how still and quiet they become. Littermates give much harsher punishment to retaliate against someone being too aggressive, I'm sure you have heard the squeals and yelps during kitten play. This method is a last resort to use, but workd rather quickly. she can't be allowed to turn into a biter which will get much worse as she gets older. This WILL get better in time, she just has to learn manners and what your rules are. Praise and give treats when she acts calm and plays with toys instead of your hands. She is young and will learn quickly. She loves you and is confused right now. Give her comfort and love and lots of it when she is bahaving. All the luck!
 

rubysmama

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Oh, she's pawsitively adorable. :hearthrob: I absolutely love the bit of colour on her face. :hearthrob: I can't wait to learn her name, and know you'll come up with some purrfect. :hearthrob:
 
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Antonio65

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I was looking for a tortie, for very obvious reasons.
And I came up to her. I saw her on a WhatsApp Status image from a person that I know and is volunteering at that rescue group. I drove 337 mls (round trip) to have her!
 

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She is adorable! I use Bachs rescue remedy with my nervous 12 yr old. I have seen a mild difference in him. He's still nervous but rarely to the point of skittish. I don't think it would have a big effect on a high energy happy kitten.

I agree with you that isolation and improper play with hands taught her bad behaviors. She's young enough that you'll be able to retrain her. Because of her age and energy it might take a little extra time for her to understand what you want. Choose your way to let her know she is biting too hard and be consistent. (No, Ow, Hiss)

Get her some kickeroos and interactive toys. Tire her out and get some cuddles when she's sleepy.

Some manners are learned quicker from another cat. When we had a Tortie kitten our adult was a toothless 14yr old. He taught her everything but how to bite with a soft mouth. A week after getting another kitten that bit her back she started giving proper gentle love bites.
 
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Antonio65

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I don't know anything about Bach Flowers, but TCS has these articles that you may not have read, that may be helpful:

How To Stop Playtime Aggression In Cats | TheCatSite
I found this article the most interesting, and there are passages that sound very like my situation.

"Do not shout or yell at your cat. They are not thinking clearly at this point, and you may aggravate the situation and turn this into fear induced aggressive behavior. "
This is what I think is happening right now. I yelled at her, or I shouted "NO", and she seems to be more aggressive than on the first two days.

"Remember to provide your kitten with alternatives – either by bringing in a second cat into your home "
And this is what someone told me yesterday.

Thanks rubysmama rubysmama !
 
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Antonio65

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I use Bachs rescue remedy with my nervous 12 yr old. I have seen a mild difference in him. He's still nervous but rarely to the point of skittish.
Thanks! So my next question might be, do you need to use one of the Bach Flowers continually, or you can stop it once that you see some results?

I don't think it would have a big effect on a high energy happy kitten.
This isn't what I wanted to read :lol:

I agree with you that isolation and improper play with hands taught her bad behaviors. She's young enough that you'll be able to retrain her. Because of her age and energy it might take a little extra time for her to understand what you want. Choose your way to let her know she is biting too hard and be consistent. (No, Ow, Hiss)

Get her some kickeroos and interactive toys. Tire her out and get some cuddles when she's sleepy.
I'll have to find some good furry toys for her to play with. Unfortunately I don't think I'll have time to shop today...
 

Hellenww

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Thanks! So my next question might be, do you need to use one of the Bach Flowers continually, or you can stop it once that you see some results?
I put it in his wet food twice a day. The directions say a few drops as needed so I don't think it has an on going effect after stopping. The one time I ran out for a few days he went back to his usual skittishness not an extreme worsening like an adrupt stopping of an anti-depressant can cause.
 
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Antonio65

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The one time I ran out for a few days he went back to his usual skittishness not an extreme worsening like an adrupt stopping of an anti-depressant can cause.
So these flowers might not be the best solution.
She is curled next to me on the sofa right now, it 10:20 pm here, and she just licked my lips again, but I am not allowed to cuddle her.

She also pooped nearly runny poop half an hour ago... Not again... :frustrated:
Tomorrow morning I'll take a sample of her poop for tests, all possible tests. Someone suggested that she might have some parasites that are bothering her.
 
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Antonio65

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This is VERY common with kittens that were separated form the cat family unit before they learned limits and how to 'play nice' by being disciplined by mama and revengfull littermates. Your kitten is really trying to play, which is what all kittens do as you know, and had no idea that her biting and 'attacking' are wrong.
Yes, I'm aware of that, but I had kittens before with the same history of lost families. Lola never knew her mother, and I wasn't expert enough to replace her mother. She never learned how to be a complete cat, but nevertheless she was the sweetest cat ever.

Get a 'kickeroo' from amazon or a pet store, made for cats.I have several and keep one in a bag filled with catnip to keep them refreshed. They are irresistible and when she starts stalking or coming at you, throw it to the side of her so it diverts her attention. It releases a lot of pent up energy instead of on you.
She must never be allowed to bite your hands or clotehs. When she does so, take her by the loose skin on the back of the neck and say sternly NO, or hiss. This has to be done EVERY time. This is what a mama cat does to discipline. Hold her until she stops struggling. Never squeeze or hold her overlong, just a few seconds.
Done that, it doesn't work, she turns against me and bites!

she can't be allowed to turn into a biter which will get much worse as she gets older.
This is what scares me!
 

She's a witch

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She seems totally fine too me and I see no reason to give her any stress relief supplement, she seems like a normal playful kitten, unless I’m missing something. If your previous kittens very cuddly, you’re very lucky! Most kittens I knew never wanted to waste time to cuddle :) they were too busy playing.
Biting is also normal, I understand she has no company to play with so she’s choosing your hand. Kittens are better in pairs, can you consider adopting another one? It may or may not resolve the biting problem, and teach her some manners, but for sure it will enrich her life.
Enjoy her, she’d adorable!
 
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Antonio65

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She seems totally fine too me and I see no reason to give her any stress relief supplement, she seems like a normal playful kitten, unless I’m missing something. If your previous kittens very cuddly, you’re very lucky! Most kittens I knew never wanted to waste time to cuddle :) they were too busy playing.
She's not in a hurry to play, she also curls next to me on the sofa when we watch the TV. The fact is that, like last night, she spends her time staring at my hands. The tiniest movement is enough to trigger her predator insticts :(
If I feel the urge to cuddle her, I have to keep myself from doing it, because she quickly turns belly up, with all four paws ready to grab my hands!
She's not playing, I can tell you.
Yes, I had many more cats in the past years, mainly for fostering, and three attempts of adoption that failed for other reasons. None of them had ever showed the same behavior. I don't think I'm lucky, I consider that the normality.

Biting is also normal, I understand she has no company to play with so she’s choosing your hand. Kittens are better in pairs, can you consider adopting another one? It may or may not resolve the biting problem, and teach her some manners, but for sure it will enrich her life.
Enjoy her, she’d adorable!
I don't think that adopting another kitten is currently feasable. We discussed about this in the past two days, but my wife does not agree with another kitten!

To begin with, the kitten is now producing very soft poop three or four times a day.
This morning I took two samples of poop for tests. She pooped twice in an hour time.
I asked the clinic to test those feces for everything is possible. The results on Friday.
 

rubysmama

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My Ruby girl is a love bug, and a total lap cat, but the moment I put my arms around her, she scurries off. She just doesn't like being restrained. So your kitten may learn to love cuddles, or maybe she won't. But that doesn't mean she won't be a lovable companion.

About wanting to attack your hands, maybe try getting a little (kitten proofed) stuffed toy for her to bunny kick.
 
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Antonio65

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I think today I'll be able to walk in a shop and find something suitable for her needs :)

Needless to say that I may not be happy if she turns out to be a non-cuddle cat...
 

She's a witch

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Needless to say that I may not be happy if she turns out to be a non-cuddle cat...
It seems you know exactly what kind of cat you want, in which case the best would be to adopt an adult cat with known and established personality. Plus, the risk of poop problems in kittens are high, I had to deal with it several months :D
With kittens, you never know what you’ll have.
Maybe adopting a kitten is simply not a good idea in your case? Especially if you can’t have two, and these days it’s rather known that adopting one often ends in some behavioral problems and play disfunction, especially if they’ve been separated from mother too early, before 14 weeks old.
I’m sorry if I’m being harsh, but doesn’t adopting an adult cat seem like a better idea to you?
 
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Antonio65

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I am aware that each kitten has its own personality, but I also think that when they are this young they could love being cuddled and kept warm and snug on lap. It happened to me with all the many kittens I had in these years, I never had a kitten that didn't love to be cuddled.
The kittens I owned or fostered in the years would come from different situations: they were orphaned in their very first days, or abandoned by their mothers or previous families at different stages of their youth, they were very young or semi-adult from colonies, they were found in the waste bins or lost on the side of the road, I even had one who escaped from her own family, or I got one from a pet shop, they would come from feral and wild mothers, or from sweet home cats. One of them, Tom in my signature, was a stray adult, with a past of difficulties, but still absolutely lovely.
Invariably they would all come to me for cuddles, warm laps, love and purrs, kneading and kisses. Maybe not from day one, but within one or two days we were all set. Nearly all of them were my constant and faithful shadow, they were where I was.

Yesterday I bought the kitten some new toys, she loved especially a teddy bear (dog toy, actually) with which she played/fought for hours. I thought she was tired enough when she came to my side on the sofa, but I was wrong, she was still biting and tail wagging!

Playing with bear.jpg


I also bought a portable loudspeaker and a pendrive on which I downloaded hours of "music for cats". She liked that, she relaxed and closed her eyes and purred at the music, but still she didn't want to be petted longer than 10 seconds.

I'm still thinking of trying the Bach Flowers. Right now I'm giving her a product called Anxitane, which I already used with my cat Pallina when she would overgroom, and I had some good results. I'm four days into this treatment, the instructions say I should wait for not less than 4-6 weeks to have an improvement.

As for the soft or runny poop, this is my thread
Soft poop in three kittens in a row
This one would be the fourth! And again, it never happened with all the kittens I had and fostered in about two decades.
 

rubysmama

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She's really beautiful. :hearthrob: And don't worry about her not being a cuddler yet, as you've only had her 6 days,so she's still getting used to her new home and family. And if she wasn't really socialized much before you adopted her, she isn't used to being around people all the time. Give her time, and I'm sure she'll be your shadow before you know it. :catlove:
 
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