Birthing problem - advice please

[Micimoc]

Our 15 months old cat, Midge is pregnant (we had a visit of un unneutered stray tom who we now have adopted) and we are having problems with the birth. She had a health check with the vet two weeks ago, who thought it would be a larger litter and would be due in 1-3 weeks. I was guesstimating last Saturday, and indeed on Saturday morning at 8AM, a light brown watery discharge started dribbling down her bottom. There was quite a bit so I moved into one our bathrooms with her and her nesting box. She moved into the box, there was lots of purring and licking but I saw no contractions and eventually no kitten appeared. The discharging stopped early afternoon and since then she has been acting as nothing happened, eats, drinks, and seems to be as happy as a rather heavily pregnant cat can. I can feel lots of kitten movements.
We saw the vet for an emergency appointment Monday morning, her temperature was still normal, they took an ultrasound and they said that they didn’t think there was a kitten stuck in the birthing canal, and they checked one kitten for vital signs, she was heaving normal heart rate and size for a late pregnancy. They could not give a definite diagnosis and gave me the option of Caesarian (kittens could be premature and die) or observation (if there is a dead kitten blocking the way they could all die). I asked them to do what they think is best and eventually they said we should observe Midge for another 24 hours. On Tuesday as Midge was well and I could feel the kittens moving I asked for another 24 hours which runs out tomorrow morning. What shall I do? My gut feeling sais we should not do Caesarian as I have read threads here where a similar story ended with healthy birth but also some horror stories where it did not end well at all. I so hope she will have her kittens tonight!! Although she did have a big dinner and I don’t think her milk has come through yet.
Could this just be a weird stage 1 and all end well please?

 

[Sarthur2]

She sounds well enough to continue waiting, and it concerns me that your vet does not seem to have a grip on a more accurate gestational age of the kittens. This can fairly easily be obtained through close examination of an x-ray of each of her horns. The x-ray will also show how many kittens and their position.

I suggest as long as your cat is not in distress that you seek a second opinion from another vet and ask for x-rays.

Additionally, since she does not appear to have gone into full-on labor yet, a C-section would seem unnecessary at present, and I usually advise that labor be induced first with a shot of oxytocin before consenting to a c-section, even if a mother cat is struggling with dystocia, which is a lack of strong enough contractions to expel the kittens. Mother Nature usually ensures a strong labor and normal birthing in cats, but oxytocin can help if a mom is struggling. She’s not bleeding nor is she lethargic or in labor or distress.

I know anything could change at any time, but I recommend a second opinion tomorrow with x-rays if you can squeeze her in somewhere, then make a decision whether to let nature take its course or induce. A c-section is always a last resort, and it takes a couple of techs in the surgery to clean the kittens and get them breathing as they come out. It needs to be quick or the anesthesia given to mom can also kill them.

Keep us posted!

M Micimoc

 

[Micimoc]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.
I am taking her to the University’s small animal practice, they are the best equipped around here with a hospital unit and should be the most knowledgable I think they said that for an x-ray they would need to sedate her and they didn’t want to do that.
Thinking back, I did ask about oxytocin and the question was dodged. I will definietly try to avoid c-section for now. What are the signs of dystocia? Would she be having contractions or straining with that?
She is absolutely fine, not lethargic, not distressed, not bleeding, the kittens are moving and she doesn’t seem to be in labor. If she hadn’t had that discharge now nearly 96 hours ago, I wouldn’t think there was a problem.
I will talk to them again today, there are several vets there and hopefully I can get a second opinion.

 

[Sarthur2]

This is the first time I’ve ever heard of a pregnant cat needing to be sedated for an x-ray. Usually a vet tech will gently hold the cat still on one side and then the other while another tech takes the x-ray. It does not even take very long.

Good luck!

 

[Sarthur2]

Any update on your cat today?

 

[Micimoc]

It is much the same, she is well, kittens moving, perhaps dropped a bit. She has clearly had enough of me trying to feel her tummy every 10 minutes and is desperate to get out of the house
I talked to a different vet at the same practice yesterday over the phone, and I was told that they were happy for me to monitor her at home, should I have any concern bring her straight in.
I am considering taking her in today to get checked again, although the car journey really stresses her out, gets all panty and agitated.
I googled the x-ray question, and you are right, it is weird that they told me that she would need to be sedated for that.

 

[Sarthur2]

Thank you for the update! I would refrain from taking her in again and just let her be. It sounds like she will go into labor and birth her kittens just fine in due time.

 

[Micimoc]

Thank you, that’s what I am hoping for

 

[Micimoc]

Midge went into labour today at 11am and so far delivered 4 healthy kittens, very quickly, all feeding happily I am so happy and she did amazingly
I have 2 questions please: the last 5 minutes she started to act as if she was gonna vomit. She has eaten 2 of the placentas but left the others. Is this normal?
Also she decided to give birth in my daughter’s toy box which is now extremely messy and also too small for all of them. When can I move them into one of the nesting box?

 

[Micimoc]

Here they are

 

[Sarthur2]

Congratulations! So glad you did not listen to the vet on this!

Throw away the uneaten placentas, and do go ahead and move them into a clean, prepared box that is larger, preferably with a cover on top and one side open for mama, and if you can, put the box in a dark, private place like inside a closet. Mom will follow. Put her food, water, and litter nearby.

Do keep us posted! M Micimoc

 

[Sarthur2]

Also, if mom is panting, give her a dish of kitten formula to drink. Nursing is hard work as the body adjusts, and panting is the result of low calcium, so keep her calcium up with a dish a day of formula.

 

[Sarthur2]

M Micimoc

How are mom and kittens doing today? Is everyone moved and happy?

 

[Micimoc]

It has been a few tiring days, Midge has been great with the kittens, staying with them all the time, not even leaving them to feed herself, so I had to present food right in front of her. However, neither of the kittens has been gaining the 10/day by far so I have been making sure everybody’s latched on every hour or 2. I think I will now have to start supplementing, although quite nervous about it.
This morning I found that Midge moved into a new box with two of the kittens and left 2 in the old box. Does this mean she has given up on them? I moved the 2 into the new box (which is too small but she is not willing to move back into the big one) and she was feeding them.

 

[Sarthur2]

Oh my, yes, if they are not gaining properly then you need to supplement. However, do try to put everyone in a box that is a good size for mom to stretch out in for feeding, BUT is in her desired location. I gave some advice about her nest in an earlier posting after they were born. You were right to move everyone in together. They must all stay with mom to nurse. ALL kittens need to be with mom nursing and gaining.

You were also right to bring food to her. I often recommend that mom’s food, water, and litter be placed in the room right nearby, even right in the nest if need be initially.

Here is a helpful video for syringe feeding:

Syringe Feeding — Kitten Lady

I tried to check in with you a few days ago and offer advice. It’s helpful if you check in with us regularly and give updates and ask questions along the way. Newborns are delicate. Best to avoid problems before they occur. Do keep us posted!

ETA: As long as the kittens are gaining, they should be okay. They get colostrum the first day or so, then milk. By day 3 they should begin gaining 6-10 grams or more per day.

M Micimoc

 

[CarmiesMom]

is your midge perhaps on the small side shes tired and babies are heavy just watch those two make sure their nursing growing and moving at the same rate as their siblings, if they strat getting week get some KMR and feed with a bottle or eye dropper. as far as the box issue i have always used a larger pet carrier for my indoor cats, that way i could shut the door at night to ensure the mama didn't move them when i was asleep also gave her the privacy and security she needed while allowing me to lift the lid and check on them every day or so good luck with your little ones, also try not to handle them over much or she will want them where you cant get to them.

 

[Micimoc]

Oh my, yes, if they are not gaining properly then you need to supplement. However, do try to put everyone in a box that is a good size for mom to stretch out in for feeding, BUT is in her desired location. I gave some advice about her nest in an earlier posting after they were born. You were right to move everyone in together. They must all stay with mom to nurse. ALL kittens need to be with mom nursing and gaining.

You were also right to bring food to her. I often recommend that mom’s food, water, and litter be placed in the room right nearby, even right in the nest if need be initially.

Here is a helpful video for syringe feeding:

Syringe Feeding — Kitten Lady

I tried to check in with you a few days ago and offer advice. It’s helpful if you check in with us regularly and give updates and ask questions along the way. Newborns are delicate. Best to avoid problems before they occur. Do keep us posted!

ETA: As long as the kittens are gaining, they should be okay. They get colostrum the first day or so, then milk. By day 3 they should begin gaining 6-10 grams or more per day.

M Micimoc

Thank you for your reply, I am vey grateful. I followed your advice regarding the nest and they were happy in it until last night when Mom came out and started nervously looking around and then moving one of the kittens into one of my daughter’s toybox. (Daughter has been temporarily moved out of the room after she decided to give birth there). I tried to move her nest into the position of the new box but she kept moving out of it with a kitten, eventually leaving two kittens behind.

Kittens are gaining but tiny amounts. They were born on Saturday between 1-3pm
Grey: was 106g at 8pm on the day she was born, last night (end of day 3) 113g
Black: 103 to 118
Ginger 1: 103 to 123
Ginger 2: 122 to 127

 

[Micimoc]

is your midge perhaps on the small side shes tired and babies are heavy just watch those two make sure their nursing growing and moving at the same rate as their siblings, if they strat getting week get some KMR and feed with a bottle or eye dropper. as far as the box issue i have always used a larger pet carrier for my indoor cats, that way i could shut the door at night to ensure the mama didn't move them when i was asleep also gave her the privacy and security she needed while allowing me to lift the lid and check on them every day or so good luck with your little ones, also try not to handle them over much or she will want them where you cant get to them.

Thank you! She is on the smaller side and I am wondering if she does not have enough milk.
I like the idea of the pet carrier but ours is too small,I will order a larger one. Would be good not to worry if they were gonna spend the night all together.
I only handle them when I measure them, and she hates it. She doesn’t seem to mind when I try to help the kittens to find a free nipple though.

 

[Sarthur2]

Definitely slow gains. I suggest you weigh tomorrow morning and every 12 hours for a few days, so twice a day for now. Her milk should be coming in better now. Is mom getting plenty of food? Are you supplementing her with dishes of formula? She needs it.

Give the kittens another day to see how they gain. If it’s still poor, begin supplementing. The one good thing is they are gaining, albeit small. No one is losing. This is a good sign.

If you’ve given her your daughter’s room, she can be on the floor with her kittens - whatever. No box needed as long as they stay together. Just keep checking.

 

[Micimoc]

Mom is getting plenty of food and has formula as well but she doesn’t like it. I think she is not eating enough although I try to encourage her. She has graciously accepted half of my steak last night

She could be anywhere but wants to be in that box, who knows why?
Will be measuring them more often today and keep my fingers crossed that they start gaining.