Best procedure for kidney disease

[Meg142!]

I'm getting together a cart of supplements that I've read that can be helpful and just wanted to run it by you guys before asking my vet. So I grabbed a multivitamin supplement Because I was reading it's important to make sure she's getting all her vitamins and antioxidants, I also got a B12 liquid vitamin for red blood cell support, an Omega complex vitamin for fatty acids, a potassium supplement ,and I'm now working on finding an affordable low phosphorus, low sodium wet cat food which is proving to be difficult.

I also wanted to ask about Sub-Q fluids. Does anyone have experience with this? I was reading about it on the website recommend to me above and it seems like a really good option that won't break the bank. I found the recommended fluids on Chewy.com and it would cost me roughly 10¢ a day to do sub-Q fluids if my vet thinks it's a viable option.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Very interesting, I just read the page you suggested and it seems that PKD is a precursor to CKD but that it doesn't always reach CKD? And that the same treatment used for PKD is used in CKD? So am I correct to assume that as long as she doesn't have kidney failure and doesn't develop kidney failure in her second kidney any time soon, she can live for several years with PKD?

That's how I read it too. What did the untrasound show? That she only has one functioning kidney? Are there cysts on that functioning kidney? I'm really wondering why your Vet said she might need to be put down when she is acting like she feels well? My motto is not to pay too much attention to the numbers, but pay attention to the CAT when it comes to kidney disease. And they will definitely have good days and bad, but a couple of bad days does not mean they are ready to say goodbye. My old girl (my last kidney cat) sometimes would have say five bad days in a row and I would think it was about time, then she would perk up and have several good days, maybe weeks before slowing down again. And in the end, it wasn't her kidneys that got her. .

 

[Meg142!]

Okay good! I'm glad I'm finally getting a handle on what everything means. And I am learning that as well! I've been reading that while levels are high, a cat may feel perfectly fine despite what their blood work shows. And I believe he was just letting me know what the worst case scenario would be. And she only had cysts on one kidney, her right one, which has little to no function from what I understand. But even so, he said that if her remaining kidney is working well after the infection clears, she may live several years more with a single working kidney.

Even if her blood levels are not great by this weekend, I have a diet and health plan made up that if the vet agrees, I'll have her on for several weeks while monitoring her blood work to see if anything improves.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I'm getting together a cart of supplements that I've read that can be helpful and just wanted to run it by you guys before asking my vet. So I grabbed a multivitamin supplement Because I was reading it's important to make sure she's getting all her vitamins and antioxidants, I also got a B12 liquid vitamin for red blood cell support, an Omega complex vitamin for fatty acids, a potassium supplement ,and I'm now working on finding an affordable low phosphorus, low sodium wet cat food which is proving to be difficult.

I also wanted to ask about Sub-Q fluids. Does anyone have experience with this? I was reading about it on the website recommend to me above and it seems like a really good option that won't break the bank. I found the recommended fluids on Chewy.com and it would cost me roughly 10¢ a day to do sub-Q fluids if my vet thinks it's a viable option.

B12 is good. Omega 3 is always good. I would hold off on the potassium supplement because you can overdose on that if it's not needed. For potassium they usually check their blood to see if it's high or low or just right. Here's more on that: http://www.felinecrf.org/potassium.htm Now as far as vitamins, and anything other than Omega 3, here is a little more reading for you: http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm#cautions. For this one, slick on Cautions, Vitamins, etc. in the left hand column and it'll take you where you need to go.

I have experience with sub-q fluids. We did those with two of our kidney cats. Really, it's pretty easy (although I guess that really depends on the cat), and quite inexpensive compared to having IV's done with overnight stays at the Vet! You can order needles and the IV set-ups on-line, then get the fluids from wherever (I had no idea Chewy had them!) We used to get our fluids from Walgreens for really cheap. BUT, we didn't start doing sub-q's until our cats were in stage 3 of the disease. PKD is different though and might require it earlier. Anyway, Tanya's site has all kinds of tips on givings fluids, and we can assist with that here too.

Our Vet said to try to keep the phosphorus level under 1% when looking for foods, if that helps. That's still leaves a ton of food out there!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Make sure her potassium is checked. We have been giving our CKD kitty potassium and it's really helped her.

stephanietx I had no idea you had another CKD cat. Sorry to hear that I remember so well when you were helping me with my Sven and his diet when your Callie was going through this. Then MY Callie went through it as well. Seems like a never ending cycle

 

[Meg142!]

I was really surprised with the price of the Sub-Q fluids as well, it was $10 for 1000 ml I believe, and for her body weight (she's a very petite cat) it ended up being about 10¢ a day to do. Definitely affordable and I agree, much cheaper then running to the vet for an IV. I am going to ask for some additional tests to be done during her next blood test to check for her phosphorus and potassium levels to see if she needs improvement in these areas.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Did you see in my post #24 I actually reference TWO difference links? They ran together somehow, but there is one that discusses vitamins and general omegas, etc. along with the one about potassium. Just wanted to make sure you see that since it looks like one big link.

 

[Meg142!]

Did you see in my post #24 I actually reference TWO difference links?

Yes I did, thank you! I've been on the website all day, it's extremely helpful and there's a crazy amount of information on there! I just requested to have the blood work results sent to me so I can compare where she is to where she should be. I'm interested to see just how elevated everything is. And that way, I'll also be able to better create a treatment plan by focusing on the numbers that are way out there.

 

[Meg142!]

 

[Meg142!]

The above are the results of her blood work done today. Is the very last test "PHOS" her phosphorus levels?

 

[Meg142!]

Also, she does still have a kidney infection which I'm sure is making these levels higher than they actually are.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Also, she does still have a kidney infection which I'm sure is making these levels higher than they actually are.

Yes, I'm thinking so

The above are the results of her blood work done today. Is the very last test "PHOS" her phosphorus levels?

Yes

 

[zoes]

Once the kidney infection is resolved, it will be interesting to see what her bloodwork shows. My cat was showing signs of CKD - stage 2 (170 umol) a few years ago. I switched her diet to 100% wet food, I mix in extra water, and I started her on daily Omega-3 oil. She had a blood test yesterday and her kidney values are now 116 umol which is excellent (especially since she is at least 15 years old.)

Anyway, I don't have any tremendously helpful advice for you, but I found wet food and Omega-3 to be helpful in halting/slowing CKD. Hope your kitty is feeling much better soon! This must be really stressful for you, but cats can live a long time with CKD.

 

[Meg142!]

Thank you! It definitely is, both emotionally and financially tough. At first I was definitely panicking and thought I'd have to put her down but after reading all the resources recommend to me and all the stories in here, I now know that's not the case! Is she going to live to be 15 years old? Probably not, but I'm going to do everything I can so she's with me for as long as she is happy and comfortable.
I believe that when she was tested, her umol was 128? I'm not positive about that because so many things were thrown at me at once, but that particular number sticks out in my head.

I don't plan on making any life altering decisions for her until I have tried everything in the power to stabilize her health!

 

[zoes]

128 umol is quite low - below stage 1 (well, technically stage one, but my vet tells me there is no stage 0 and that she doesn't worry or do anything about cats who are well within stage 1 ranges.)

You know, she may live to age 15. With therapeutic support and medical treatment, cats tolerate CKD reasonably well. I don't want to say it's a walk in the park and of course you have a lot to resolve with your cat before you can properly assess her actual situation - but I'd hold off on thinking about longterm right now. You might be pleasantly surprised. When my cat had elevated creatinine levels, I thought it would just progress from there and be a matter of time before we entered the final stage/palliative care - but it's been 3 years and things are getting better, not worse, or even static. We're all on a clock, of course, but it has not gone the way I expected it to.

And on the plus side, a lot of the things you can do to help manage CKD are things that are just supportive for health - like wet food only, omega-3s, and low phos foods.

A couple things: I always ask my vet to email me a copy of the blood/urine test results. It helps a lot when doing research on your own.
Also, don't let your vet talk you into a kibble-based renal diet. They might not do that, but my vet has strongly pushed prescription kibble at me, without even being able to tell me what the medical ingredients were. I did the research myself and was not impressed.

 

[Meg142!]

Good to know! I asked yesterday when I called to check up on her that all blood work gets sent to me now. It's definitely helpful to physically see all the numbers and how far away from normal they are. And I do know that my vet recommends a hills wet diet but that's $39 for 12 cans of food I'm looking into raw as I have a ton of local farmers who sell their meat, and it would probably cost me about $70 or so to feed her for a full year.... Even cheaper than the kibble she's on now!!

 

[zoes]

Hill's renal wet cat food, I assume? I'm glad they have suggested the wet food, at least. But, check out the ingredients. Lots of unnecessary fillers and bad ingredients (like sugar, cellulose, rice starch, dyes.)

The therapeutic aspects it offers are:

• Controlled phosphorus & low sodium
• High level of essential amino acids - the building blocks of muscle protein
• Therapeutic levels of L-Carnitine and Omega-3 fatty acids

None of these are medications, and it frustrates me so much that they package them as overpriced prescription diets. All of these can be easily achieved by just using whole, high quality ingredients. Omega-3 is the hardest to source but you can get a bottle of the oil at the pet store and just mix it in - it's not very expensive per day - a bottle is like $30CAD and it lasts me for the better part of a year with three cats. The rest - amino acids and l-carnitine (which is also an amino acid) and low phosphorous - all things you can find in better quality foods and ingredients. Low sodium is easy too - why would you even add salt to begin with.

Even if you don't end up going the raw route, you could spend a half than the cost of the prescription diet and buy canned food that is WAY better quality. I pay about $2.50-3 (USD) for large cans of cat food.

If your vet gets doom and gloom about you not wanting to get the prescription diet, ask them what the medical/therapeutic ingredients are. They will either not know, or you can discuss how else to source those ingredients while feeding a diet of your choice.

Sorry, this topic makes me ranty, and I also feel that diet is VERY important and even crucial in the early stages of CKD.

 

[Meg142!]

Sorry, this topic makes me ranty, and I also feel that diet is VERY important and even crucial in the early stages of CKD.

I agree! I knew that I shouldn't feed the cheapest food but thought the more expensive stuff was just an overpriced version of the same exact food do you have any good raw recipes for Kidney cats? I've only found one or two but when I look at the description of why each meat is used it says things like " chicken is a great source if phosphorus" which is what I'm trying to avoid. The second recipe I found used mainly beef, which I also don't want to use because it's harder to process red meat vs something like chicken or rabbit (or so I've read).

 

[zoes]

I agree! I knew that I shouldn't feed the cheapest food but thought the more expensive stuff was just an overpriced version of the same exact food do you have any good raw recipes for Kidney cats? I've only found one or two but when I look at the description of why each meat is used it says things like " chicken is a great source if phosphorus" which is what I'm trying to avoid. The second recipe I found used mainly beef, which I also don't want to use because it's harder to process red meat vs something like chicken or rabbit (or so I've read).

I have never really delved into raw food so I'm afraid I have nothing to share there. My personal opinion when it comes to which meats to use, though, is just to offer a variety. I don't necessarily look for low-phos foods anymore for my cats, I just pick assorted flavours from assorted brands, figuring it'll balance itself out.

I'm not sure if you've seen this website in your research, but I found it extremely helpful and well-balanced: StackPath.

 

[Meg142!]

Update: Her blood levels are returning to normal but not as quickly as the vet would like. I asked if he thought her levels would ever return to normal and he said that wasn't something he could answer until we tried. So I made the decision to keep her hospitalized until Monday, which is also when she's done with her antibiotics. The vet make it seem like putting her down is the only option but I would really like to give her a chance vwitg a good diet, supplements, and possibly Sub-Q fluids which he also mentioned being possible. He said her phosphorus levels are absolutely normal, it's just her creatine levels that are still high. I just want to know that I'm making the right choice by taking her home after Monday and not having her endure unneeded suffering, but I also want to feel like I did everything I possibly could.

Has anyone else received a bad diagnosis and outcome for their kitties, but had them turn around?