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Basic Income Experiment Has Unexpected Results

Discussion in 'IMO: In My Opinion' started by JamesCalifornia, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. JamesCalifornia

    JamesCalifornia Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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  2. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    It said that people who got the monthly free money were 'happier and less stressed' then the control group. That was a lot of money to come to an obvious conclusion. The whole idea of getting something for nothing just rubs me the wrong way, it goes against core beliefs that I have had all my life. It isn't something that can be done in the U.S., not with our spiraling national debt and unsustainable entitlements.
     

  3. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Some say it would cost less than current expenditures, as it would replace other programs like SNAP and TANF.

    It seems in many ways to be a good idea, but at the same time, I'm pretty sure that once companies know that everybody has $1000 every month, they'll find a way to make your necessities cost $1000 a month, so we'd be right back where we started :/.

    But, yeah, duh. "People are less stressed when they don't have to worry as much about money". I could have told them that from the beginning!
     
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  4. JamesCalifornia

    JamesCalifornia Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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    ~ A people in the program had warm & fuzzy feelings toward their fellow humans - and government too ! :itslove: :dance::salam:
     

  5. kittyluv387

    kittyluv387 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Part of the basis for universal income is that in 20 years a significant chunk of today's jobs will become obsolete. A ton of people will be out of jobs. Universal income is supposed to help that. It's not impossible.
     
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  6. blueyedgirl5946

    blueyedgirl5946 TCS Member Veteran

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    I agree with @denice. I am a firm believer in people supporting their own self if they are able.
     
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  7. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Unfortunately that's not possible for many people. Even if someone works 100 hours a week at minimum wage, that's not enough to support a family. And if they don't have access to education, or are stuck in a small town, they may not be able to find a higher-wage job.

    As pointed out, many think providing a basic income would cost less than current social programs, but I doubt we'll ever find out in the US.
     
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  8. blueyedgirl5946

    blueyedgirl5946 TCS Member Veteran

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    List of Federal and State Minimum Wage Rates for 2019
    This link shows minimum wage in all states. 100 hours a week in any of the states should support a family. Sometimes people don't know how to live within their means.
     
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  9. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    $7.25 an hour at 100 hours a week would be $37,700 a year. OK, in many areas that could probably modestly support a small family. But nobody should be expected to work 100 hours a week; I was using that figure for hyperbole. If they worked normal hours they would make $15,080 a year, and nobody can make that work.
     
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  10. mani

    mani fervent feline fan Staff Member Moderator

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    Definitely hyperbole; 100 hours a week is working over 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. :(
     

  11. JamesCalifornia

    JamesCalifornia Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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    ~ :ruminating: Why would anyone expect that a minimum wage job will support a family ... ?
     
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  12. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    That's all some people can get.

    But OK, say they get something better and work at Walmart; they pay $11 an hour. That's $22,880 a year. Do you think that's enough to raise a family on, without aid?
     
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  13. catsknowme

    catsknowme TCS Member Top Cat

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    In many areas, skyrocketing rents and other costs quickly eat up wages. Plus, there are the costs of having a job - commute costs, makeup for ladies, shaving supplies for men, daily bathing and laundry costs. I know people working as home healthcare aides who, after taxes and costs, have a net monthly income that is less than what their clients on SSA/SSI get!
    I wonder how the universal income would affect those already on social programs. Would they then need to pay for their own medical needs? lose SNAP benefits? or would the allowed monthly income rate be risen?
     

  14. Elphaba09

    Elphaba09 TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    The minimum wage was created after the Great Depression as a way to let full-time employees achieve a minimum standard of living and reduce class stratification, meaning that it was created to let families with at least one full-time worker afford minimal housing, food, and adequate health care. It was also supposed to stop employers from taking advantage of workers. So, yeah, someone working full time at minimum wage should be able to support their family.

    We also have employers keeping employees just under full-time so they do not have to provide certain benefits. Then the employers treat their employees as disposable while expecting employee's lives to revolve around their jobs.

    The issue is that the so-called common worker's pay has not kept up with inflation and business owners and the like have had massive pay increases. Throw in the various wage gaps and the problem is even bigger. And it certainly is not always the case of how hard someone works.

    The problem is not the poor.
     
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  15. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    I liked Sherrod Brown's idea of a 'freeloader tax'. Companies that paid decent wages and had good benefits pay one rate. Businesses that don't pay a higher rate. He called it a freeloader tax because many of their employees qualify for government programs. He also wanted to change tje tax laws for companies that offshore jobs. He said it is set up now so that companies offshore jobs and pick up their tax cut.
     
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  16. donutte

    donutte Professional cat sitter extraordinaire! Top Cat

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    I like your ideas, Denice. I'm hiring my first full-time employee next month and feel terrible that it is just over what the minimum wage will be in a few years. But the crazy thing is I'm probably paying her more than her other jobs because they are paying what the minimum wage is now. But, I'm also offering health insurance. I'm a nice boss doing that because this is gonna cost $$$$ up the wazoo. BUT I think it's ultimately the right thing to do. I don't believe in paying what the current minimum wage is. People say it will put small businesses out of business if they raise it, and I call BS. Many small businesses pay more than the bigger corporations do as it is (and already paying over $15 an hour).

    I don't know if I'd say federal minimum wage should be affected, only because there really is a massive difference in cost of living from state to state. I think perhaps the federal law is that each state needs to have a minimum based on the cost of living?

    And NO MORE of this BS about double income. Not everyone has a double income. People keep talking about "well if you and your spouse are both working it is doable". NO, many people do not have a spouse or even a significant other! Someone living alone should be able to afford to live without having to have a spouse or SO for more income. Having an SO should not be a requirement to live.
     
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  17. margd

    margd Chula and Paul's roommate Veteran

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    Oh my gosh, I remember when you were first thinking about quitting a job you loathed to try your hand at pet sitting! And your first client! Congratulations, Donutte, that is SO wonderful that your business is doing so well. Not that I'm surprised - your clients (2 and 4-legged) are very lucky to have you! And now, your employee, too. Providing health benefits is a very decent thing to do.

    (Sorry - I know that was off topic, but I just had to say something!)
     
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  18. catsknowme

    catsknowme TCS Member Top Cat

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    @donutte : Wow! paying well with benefits! Bravo! :yess: :clap::salute: :thumbsup:
    I was married to an attorney and was his main admin support plus the office manager. I paid the office assistant $15/hour plus major medical insurance even when it meant me staying behind on vacation and living very frugally. After all, in 1988, when I was a bus girl in a dinnerhouse at a ski town, I made $15/hr, at least, between hourly and tips! The universal income would help a lot of people - some people would save it up in order to move to a more affordable area, others would squander it but yet others would use it to enhance their opportunities - there is no such thing as equalizing between smart and impractical.
     

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